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VegasJody
11-08-2002, 05:15 PM
Hello all,

During my short time training in aikido, I have noticed that we often times practice one or two "hand art" techniques. I make mention of it as when I train in Hapkido, we often practice five to fifteen techniques.

I was wondering if this (one or two) number is the case elsewhere/everywhere/whatever.

How many techniques do you practice in a given training session?

- Jody

asiawide
11-08-2002, 06:03 PM
Number of techniques isn't matter. I usually learned(?) and practiced two or three techniques in a time. In aikido, even if you learn A technique in an hour, it doesn't mean that you don't learn enough techniques.

Since irimi+tenkan+katatedori+ryotedori+ ..... * 1 techniques = many techniques.

VegasJody
11-08-2002, 06:20 PM
In aikido, even if you learn A technique in an hour, it doesn't mean that you don't learn enough techniques.
Agreed.

My point in asking is to find out other peoples experience. Sounds like you've experienced approximately the same thing. Thank you for your response.

JMCavazos
11-08-2002, 07:41 PM
Jody,

Try to look at the underlying principles of the techniques. From those basic principles you can learn many techniques. In reality, the techniques don't matter - what matters is that you understand the principle (basics) that makes the technique work.

MaylandL
11-08-2002, 08:54 PM
Hello Jody

I agree with Joe. At the dojos that I train at, we have underlying themes throughout each session. They may be iluustrating and training in:

- a specific movement against dirrent attacks

- one technique against different attacks

- different techniques against the same attack

- or any other aspect of aikido that the instructor wishes to focus on for that lesson.

IMHO, the number of techniques is necessarily the measure of a "good" class but whether you learned something important and was able to apply that lesson in class.

All the best for training :)

VegasJody
11-11-2002, 05:24 PM
IMHO, the number of techniques is necessarily the measure of a "good" class but whether you learned something important and was able to apply that lesson in class.
Agreed. (again :) )

My intention in asking this question was not to indicate lots of techniques = good or few techniques = bad. I'm interested in comparing the training session organizational principles applied in the two arts I study. In order to make an intelligent comparision, I'm trying to gather more data. I have lots of data reguarding Hapkido, and little data reguarding Aikido.
At the dojos that I train at, we have underlying themes throughout each session.
This is cool. I have not yet observed this teaching style in Aikido. I hope I do.

giriasis
11-11-2002, 11:07 PM
In my school we can do as little as three techniques a night or as many as twelve. But We usually average about 5 techniques a night in a regular mixed class. It may be more or less depending on the number of advanced or beginners in the class.

My sensei might focus on three if the training is focused on basics. For example, we do techniques from tsuki (front punch) but how we enter changes. So the first technique we will enter with irimi, the second with tenkan and the third with tenchin. That's the theme of the class -- learning to do your basic entering movements. In the advanced class for example, our sensei will have us do the same technqiue from different attacks or the same attack with different techniques. We we do 4-5 variations of the same technique. Then we switch to another technique where we have to do 4-5 variations. This can change up to 6-8 times. Then at the end we do jiyuwaza in small groups or one-on-one.

JW
11-12-2002, 01:43 AM
Hello.. I think giriasis' reply is pretty typical. As for my experience, it is similar:

About 5 techniques. Usually the class is similar to one of 3 formats, the "5 techniques from one attack/blend," the "2 to 3 blends (each with 1-2 techniques) from one attack," or the "5 kinds of nikkyo (different attacks, different blends...)."

So yeah it works out to about 5, I suppose.

Really, Hapkido classes do like 15 techniques
in 1-1.5 hours? Or is the class longer?
--JW

Bruce Baker
11-12-2002, 07:52 AM
You have to remember that sometimes one movement is considered a technique, and that some schools would break the variations of Ikkyo into four techniques such as entering, interception, execution, and completion.

On the other hand, working off a central theme, how many times have you gone through the pillars of Aikido in one class? Depends on the level of training in the class, doesn't it?

I would say, off one theme, we normally practice four to several variations, depending on the skill level of the class.

That doesn't include additions of Aiki-ken, or Aiki-jo.

VegasJody
11-12-2002, 12:21 PM
That doesn't include additions of Aiki-ken, or Aiki-jo.
At the dojo in which I train, we have two seperate days when we work on the jo and bokken. I've noticed that it seems likes we get more practice in on the weapons than on the hand arts for some reason. Perhaps it's just my perception.

VegasJody
11-12-2002, 12:25 PM
Really, Hapkido classes do like 15 techniques

in 1-1.5 hours? Or is the class longer?

--JW
The class is typically one hour in length. Hapkido techiques are usually arranged in "forms", or sets of techniques. These are not forms like you think of in Taekwondo, Karate, ect., but collections of techniques grouped together. I use the number fifteen because in my school the first form has fifteen techniques.

Juan
11-12-2002, 02:46 PM
:) As an instructor, I find that most students rather work on 1-3 technique (similar)than being confused by 8-10 techniques. So I belive that it is an average for you to work on about 3 techniques during class so that you can practice them correctly and record them to memory.

In sincere Aiki spirit.

giriasis
11-12-2002, 03:33 PM
The only time we get up to 8-10 techniques is when we have people coming up for testing for ikkyu and above where you have to do various techniques from different attacks or if we are working on fluidity and a good pace. Penny's classes come to mind. It's generally a mixed class, but the beginners usually only need to focus on one technique. Everyone gets something out of it.

VegasJody
11-12-2002, 04:14 PM
As an instructor, I find that most students rather work on 1-3 technique (similar)than being confused by 8-10 techniques
...beginners usually only need to focus on one technique
This would appear to line up with the skill level of the class I attend (mostly 7th and 6th Kyu [spelling?]).

Cool. Thank you for your responses.

akiy
11-12-2002, 04:33 PM
We probably go through ten to fifteen different techniques in an hour's class under our chief instructor. There's very little talking and/or explanation except when necessary.

I think this kind of training develops the ability to change from technique to technique without overanalyzing and/or getting attached to any single technique. It seems the approach at our dojo at the more experienced level is less a sense of getting things "technically" correct (ie "foot here, hand here") but on figuring things out the principles that "work" for your body.

As such, I think this sort of approach works better with people who have some experience in the art; it seems difficult for folks who don't have a lot of experience keeping up in class, both in terms of doing the techniques and the physical aerobic/endurance required as well. The class I refer to above, though, draws people anywhere from beginner level (5th kyu) to more advanced folks (6th dan), usually on average about thirty people per class (about half of whom, I'd say, are yudansha).

There are other classes at the dojo in which less techniques are covered. In those, we may just spend the whole hour doing three techniques. Once again, though, there's usually very little talking; the person leading the class will often come around and throw each person in the class at least four times, though.

-- Jun

MaylandL
11-12-2002, 09:54 PM
Hello Jun

You've made some interesting comments...
We probably go through ten to fifteen different techniques in an hour's class under our chief instructor.
The classes we have are between 90 minutes and 2 hours and we do less than 10 techniques including variations. We do start out with basic ukemi, breathing and movement exercises. Usually we end with weapons and/or randori with the techniques that were taught.
I think this kind of training develops the ability to change from technique to technique without overanalyzing and/or getting attached to any single technique.
I think that you make an interesting point and both my Senseis stress the importance of feeling techniques and Uke's balance and posture. My experience with having overall themes and using a variety of techniques and exercises to illustrate those themes really helps structure the training for beginners and allows more experienced aikidoka to hone their skills and work on some of their weaknesses. We use henkawaza(sp?) and kaishiwaza(sp?) to train transitions to different techniques and sensitivity to Uke.
As such, I think this sort of approach works better with people who have some experience in the art; it seems difficult for folks who don't have a lot of experience keeping up in class, both in terms of doing the techniques and the physical aerobic/endurance required as well. The class I refer to above, though, draws people anywhere from beginner level (5th kyu) to more advanced folks (6th dan), usually on average about thirty people per class (about half of whom, I'd say, are yudansha).
I would definitely agree with this. The dojos I train at do not have separate beginner classes and all grades train together. Having said that sometimes Sensei will separate out the Yudansha and Ikkyu grades to focus on specific aspects during the class that he may wish to work on. I think that both the Senseis that I have the privilege of training under do fine job in balancing out the training for beginners and experienced aikidoka so that all get something out of the class.

All the best for training :)

ibanag
11-26-2002, 01:19 AM
Technique could be there if it is practice with awareness, anyway it is not the numbers that count. My personal impression on this matter that it is better for a little amount of droplets of water to the stone than to wash it away with to much liquid..

Arnel

aikido shinzui phil.
Hello all,

During my short time training in aikido, I have noticed that we often times practice one or two "hand art" techniques. I make mention of it as when I train in Hapkido, we often practice five to fifteen techniques.

I was wondering if this (one or two) number is the case elsewhere/everywhere/whatever.

How many techniques do you practice in a given training session?

- Jody:)

Doug Mathieu
11-26-2002, 01:15 PM
Hi

It looks like we fit into the approx 3 tech per class too. I would add we do other things that might be considered techniques but are more for body movement, warm up, hip work, etc.

For example its not uncommom as part of our warm up to do line drills of kokyunages. No real instruction usually one demonstration then up and at em.

Another comment has to do with training versus teaching. I was at a seminar once where the shihan mentioned he was doiung quite a few things and the participants didn;t get to try them much before he went onto the next one. He said the seminar was for him to teach as much as he could for the group and it was up to the students to train later.

This sounds like what may be happening with the people who mentioned their senior class had much more variety as they had less teaching to be given and were training on them more.

VegasJody
11-26-2002, 04:31 PM
...I would add we do other things that might be considered techniques but are more for body movement, warm up, hip work, etc.
Same here.
Another comment has to do with training versus teaching. I was at a seminar once where the shihan mentioned he was doiung quite a few things and the participants didn;t get to try them much before he went onto the next one. He said the seminar was for him to teach as much as he could for the group and it was up to the students to train later.
I would find this extremely frustrating. I don't know about anyone else, but I don't an oppertunity outside of class to train. While I'm in class, that's the training I get for the week. Granted I keep each technique in my head and review them each day, but without the chance to regularly put those techniques into the physical universe my training would suffer.

I hope that doesn't happen often! =)

Doug Mathieu
12-11-2002, 02:07 PM
Hi Jody

It sure was frustrating at the seminar. Especially because myself and a couple others came from out of town and we would not likley get to practice what he showed after in regular class.

I think his comment had more to do with a seminar vs. regular class although for advance practice students may need less detailed correction and can do more sustained training.

VegasJody
12-12-2002, 03:47 PM
On the topic of seminars, we recently had one at my dojo.

Aside from the fact Sakakibara sensei was wonderful, the one thing I loved was the oppertunity to practice what was shown. This more than anything contributed my enjoying the seminar. Sakakibara sensei also made it a point to move from pair to pair and correct any mistakes or misunderstands. Overall, the seminar was outstanding.