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Amin Basri
11-06-2002, 06:15 PM
Hi,



Just wondering,What injuries had you sustained due to aikido training?


Regards,
Amin

Amin Basri
11-06-2002, 06:18 PM
Hi,

Oh,also could you tell how do you sustain the injuries and how long did it take you to recover and start practising aikido again.Thanks

Regards,

Amin

beanchild
11-06-2002, 08:19 PM
hi amin-

i strained both my wrists doing aikido wrist locks maybe a year and a half ago. i took a month off and came back. the wrists still flare up from time to time but nothing incapatating.

bob_stra
11-07-2002, 12:18 AM
As some who is beginning aikido, I second this question. How common are injuries in aikido? I've been fairly banged up from BJJ and Judo (knees, shoulder, elbows, ankles, fingers) - can I expect more of the same, or are wrists the most likely injury area?

Also, do you find the traditional aikido wrist exercises (sorry, don't know the name) and jo work tend to be helpful in this regard?

erikmenzel
11-07-2002, 02:56 AM
Broke some toes. That's all.

Oh, and I did get some serieus ego-bruises :D :freaky: :D

Creature_of_the_id
11-07-2002, 03:57 AM
Seperated the AC joint, broke the collar bone and 2 ribs and 'stretched' the tendons meaning my shoulder joint could glide about... ewww (all of those injuries were at the same time because of my own stupidity. I allowed myself to be used as uke for a friends nidan grading when I was not 100% fit. He is a big man, and he pummelled me into the mat with his second throw.

that was at easter and I'm just back on the mat full time as of yesterday

Anne
11-07-2002, 05:39 AM
Fortunately I had no serious injuries so far. The worst was a broken toe as it got caught and twisted between two mats during a high speed fall. I heared the sound but went on training. I only became suspicious after it didn't stop throbbing for several days. Because it already started healing, I just taped it to its neighbour and went on training after one week.

Anne

Tim Griffiths
11-07-2002, 06:29 AM
Two broken toes (from randori collision)

Torn thumb ligaments (catching a punch badly)

Torn ankle ligaments (hit by someone else uke)

Stabbed through hand (tantodori)

Dislocated shoulder (someone trying to be 'kind' to me during koshinage)

Damaged knee (from doing koshinage badly)

Split lips, nosebleeds, black eyes, bokken bruises and a billion cuts from people not cutting their nails.

Also seen: Two broken clavicles (both during warm-up ukemi); concussion (iriminage - uke not keeping their head off the mat); broken fingers (uke getting their hand stepped on while lying on the mat); badly cut hand (from sensei not paying attention when he sheathed his sword during a demo :rolleyes: ; teeth pushed through lip (randori collision)...

It's a dangerous mat out there....

Tim

gasman
11-07-2002, 06:34 AM
mostly nail cuts.

we train very soft in my dojo. tori should never perform a technique harder or faster than uke can recieve.

sometimes a landing foot or head connects to a painful area, we've had one leg injury in 3 years.

my sensei always says there are less registered injuries in aikido than there is in golf (!)

but one should be very careful with the knees, esp when training shikko.

erikmenzel
11-07-2002, 06:48 AM
s there are less registered injuries in aikido than there is in golf (!)
I know nothing about golf whatsoever, so your sensei may be absolutely right, but it does make golf in my eyes a very very very dangerous sport.

Sad thing is that from the martial arts aikido is one with a lot of injuries. And a lot of people train aikido without matches or competition. Go figure!

MaylandL
11-07-2002, 08:30 AM
The usual bumps and bruises. Had a dislocated thumb and sprained appendages. Also had some bruised ribs when I didnt receive a kick properly.

Had some minor cuts and nicks from tantodori and tachidori. Other than that nothing serious.

In the words of Hill Street Blues...lets be careful out there :)

Kevin Wilbanks
11-07-2002, 08:35 AM
AB,

As you can see, the hazard varies widely dependent on the dojo. You'd be better off asking people who have been around a long while at your particular dojo. In the end, a lot is dependent on your own judgement and fitness/injury resistance.

If you tend to jump into things you aren't ready for, or tend to get caught up in a macho attitude about competitive situations, or training while you are already hurt, you'll be in for more damage. This last one is probably the most important in the long run - the difference between taking time to properly identify causes, heal and rehabilitate problems when they do arise and just training on like a tough-guy can be the difference between having a nimble, healthy body at 50 or 60 and being nearly crippled (I've seen both).

Preventatively, I think a general strength training program is important. Particularly Squats, Stiff-Leg/Romanian Deadlifts, and at least one pulling and pushing upperbody exercise on a regular basis will go a long way toward making most of the mechanical structures of the body more resistant to injury. Look through the archives for my replies to posts about working out and fitness for more detail.

tedehara
11-07-2002, 09:32 AM
Twelve + years no injuries.

What the #%^$ are you guys doing to each other?

:confused: confused

erikmenzel
11-07-2002, 09:56 AM
What the #%^$ are you guys doing to each other?
I dont need any others, quite capable of hurting myself without any help. :D :D

Sat down in keiza and was disturbed by a snapping sound coming from my toe. Just happend, nobodies fault nobody to blame, nobody who can explain it, not even my doctor or fysiotherapist.

bcole23
11-07-2002, 10:19 AM
Innumerable cuts from peoples' toenails not being cut.

(most recent) Tore something in my shoulder and not even sure when it happened. Didn't start hurting until later that night when I noticed a HUGE bruise on my tricep and that my shoulder hurt. Took a class off, took the next few classes REALLY easy, and did general warm up and strengthening exercises for it. It's just about better.

Sprained my ankle playing football, but didn't take enough time off aikido to let it heal and it still bothers me a bit.

There's all the other little bumps, bruises, and dings too.

However, Aikido does so much good stuff for me. I've got a notoriously bad lower back. Training in Aikido helps keep my back limber and healthy. I broke a rib (non-aikido related) and taking 1.5 months off really hurt. I start getting all creaky and achy if I don't do aikido.

Aikido gud. No cause injury if do right.

DanielR
11-07-2002, 10:33 AM
Repeatedly bruised big toes on both feet by stepping on them the wrong way during ukemi(like trying to bend them all the way to the sole). Annoying, but so far no permanent damage and no off-mat time.

SeiserL
11-07-2002, 10:40 AM
Separated ribs by not exhaling learning to take Ukemi. Tore rotator cuff by not keeping hands in front. Broke a little toe by running into someone's heel. Often have ice packs on wrists. You know, the usual. ;-) and well worth it.

RICE: rest, ice, elevation, compression.

Physical therapy stabilization exercises.

Most attributed to high mileage, not just Aikido.

Until again,

Lynn

Tim Griffiths
11-07-2002, 10:53 AM
Twelve + years no injuries.

What the #%^$ are you guys doing to each other?

:confused: confused
Well Ted, see where it says "Ki Society" in your header...:D

*grin/duck/run*

Actually all the serious injuries I've seen where in my old Ki-style dojo - most of the bruises I got in my current one..:p

When do injuries happen to me? Often caused by other couples on a crowded mat evileyes

or when I'm pushing myself/being pushed by partner, in terms of speed, power and control, especially as I get tired.

Naturally the danger of injury increases as you work nearer your limits - but how else do you increase those limits? We need to balance our practice with our ability. There's no reason for beginners to be injuried at all (a little bruising from ukemi notwithstanding) whereas at a higher level you will eventually get injured if you push yourself.

How many deaths in aikido? About 35 and rising, isn't it? (Even in the ki style dojo's...)

Oh, and Kevin's right - don't train hard when injured.

Tim

Erik
11-07-2002, 11:46 AM
Foot in hakama during breakfall == mid air splits.

Landing on back of neck. Long story, and I was nage when it happened. Short story, don't piss off sensitive 5th dans.

Knees creak and crack which I believe has been caused by falling down and getting up many thousands of times. Recently did something to my left knee. Not sure if it was hyper-extended while running or on the mat. Knee problems scare me more than anything as so many of the people I've known in this art have had knee problems.

Elbow joints tweaked due to yonkyo application. Probably my fault as I was pushing the uke pretty hard and she (my instructor was greatly amused by this one) had gronking application down. I, on the other hand, was too stupid to just go with it.

Tendonitis in the left shoulder. While directly caused by a workout, I'd also spent a fair amount of time the prior year in a place where sensitivity was often not discussed. More than once I was pinned with my shoulder torqued rather than pinned to the mat. Slapping loud and hard was often too late.

Pulled a stomach muscle which was greatly aggravated while doing a recent demo. Not sure that I did it on the mat but the great joy of not being in your 20's is that you wind up hurting but are not really sure when you hurt yourself.

Once was dropped during a kote gaeshi. Person had been doing it for 20 years and I just assumed she knew how to hold onto me. 20 years right? Sheesh!

As far as I know I've never broken anything on the mat however.

Bud
11-07-2002, 11:51 AM
I've had my thumb almost torn off (got it caught on someone's gi when I was holding a tanto wrong, with my thumb a little raised).

A lot of the usual bruises and faint aches. Usually around my shoulders from guys who seem to forget was tapping means..

Had an elbow a little hyperextended once by a nasty kokyu nage. The elbow was a little sore for a few weeks though.

MattRice
11-07-2002, 01:55 PM
low grade separated shoulder

munetski kokyunage

6 weeks to heal
What the #%^$ are you guys doing to each other?
Training hard.

Being stupid.

A little of both.

Amin Basri
11-07-2002, 03:26 PM
Hi,

Previously i had been doing Pencak Silat for 6 years and no injuries except for a few strains and cramps.After reading your replys,really got me thinking about doing aikido and the injuries i am going to suffer...

Regards,

Amin

Aikiscott
11-07-2002, 04:27 PM
Over the 3 years I have been training I have had.

Torn shoulder ligaments - Bad Ukemi

both Wrists - Bad Ukemi when recieving Nikyo/Sankyo. Just back on the mat after this one.

Left Elbow - Bad Ukemi when recieving Nikyo/Sankyo.

Torn Mouth - having a bokken shoved into the Corner of my mouth during Ken Awase.

Dislocated toe from dropping Uke onto my foot during Ikkyo.

thousands of Bruises especialy abdominal & Arms from vigorous technique aplication. A lot of Strains a few concussions, split lips, scratched from long finger nails.

And I still wouldn't say that Aikido is anymore dangerous than any other martial art. I have had worse injuries from playing Basketball.

I personaly believe that a majority of Injuries in the Dojo come from Fear of Ukemi or of doing the technique and Peoples Ego's exceeding their abilities.

bcole23
11-07-2002, 05:45 PM
OOOOOHHHHH OH OH!! Forgot one!

Last night I climed in bed to spoon the wife prior do drifting off to sleep. However, I guess my hand was a little cold and she was so adamant about me not placing it on her anywhere that she bent my index finger at a 90degree angle sideways. (Double jointed so no damage)

She came very close to breaking it though.

MORAL:

Let sleeping dogs/bears/wives lie.

Erik
11-07-2002, 06:43 PM
low grade separated shoulder

Training hard.

Being stupid.

A little of both.
You know, that probably sums up my injury history as well as anything.

Abasan
11-07-2002, 08:58 PM
I injured my right wrist for trying to absorb too much nikyo. All this because someone told me that you have to train until you can take nikyo without pain if you want to reach black belt. Now it hurts if i bend it backwards, so no bridging for me. Sankyo hurts, shihonage hurts... even slapping the floor hurts. Doctor friend told me that this type of injury will heal in time (whew!) so i'm using a wrist brace to help its course since I don't want to leave training. Maybe its all these typing I do... i heard bout this thing called repetitive stress injury.

Using knee braces now so that all those creaks and such won't develop into bad joints. Most of the time, I think knee injury here stems from bad ukemi, especially when doing mai ukemi and landing with the front foot at an angle instead of facing dead center. Hitting the sides of the knees when breakfalling doesn't help either.

Sprained my neck for being a complacent uke during jo practice. Never take things for granted. I was falling down, and not holding on to nage's jo, and nage helpfully pulled back his jo on my face, causing me to turn away and lend promptly on my head instead of having it tucked in.

Kevin Wilbanks
11-08-2002, 12:32 AM
AB,

I wouldn't let any of this worry you too much, unless you train at Tim Griffith's dojo, in which the Sensei is cutting himself with a sword, and letting students impale one another with live daggers... I've never heard of this kind of recklessness in any Aikido dojos within the experience of anyone I've known.

It seems to me the common thread in the most horrific of these stories is foolishness and irresponsibility. If you're a sensible person who will proceed with a little caution, I don't think Aikido will prove prohibitively dangerous. If you're ever involved in a situation that seems out of hand, you can always bow, say 'thank you', and sit it out or go home.

paw
11-08-2002, 05:43 AM
My own thoughts reading through this thread are very similar to Ted's. My goodness! Some you have been seriously injured!

Let me echo Kevin's great advice:
If you're a sensible person who will proceed with a little caution, I don't think Aikido will prove prohibitively dangerous. If you're ever involved in a situation that seems out of hand, you can always bow, say 'thank you', and sit it out or go home.

Heal up and train safely all,

Paul

Avery Jenkins
11-08-2002, 07:43 AM
My short list:

Nose broken in 3 locations by uke's heel during randori. My face looked like a Cubist painting. Off the mat 3 weeks, returned a bit earlier than wise to take my second kyu test.

Big toe fractured when uke dropped to his knees when confronted with my superior ki. (well, maybe not). Lots of tape, no time off.

Other than that, nothing more than the usual tendonitis issues in various upper extremity locations.

Avery

rachmass
11-08-2002, 08:22 AM
20 years training, only one serious injury (knock wood) = torn ACL, because I was being a jerk and was pissed off and threw someone too hard and got my foot stuck on the mat (taught me a lesson!).

Otherwise, numerous toe injuries with one broken toe during my second year of training (brought someone down on my heel when I had my toes tucked under me, ouch). Slight tear in my rotator cuff (don't know how it happened), and really bad shoulders (way too tight, causing injuries-can't seem to loosen them). Other than that, many times I've gotten a heel in my shin during a seminar due to too crowded a mat.

Hope I don't get any more serious injuries, getting too old for quick recoveries!

MattRice
11-08-2002, 11:54 AM
damn dude, torn mouth? That's a new one for me...yoiks.

Aikiscott
11-10-2002, 04:03 PM
damn dude, torn mouth? That's a new one for me...yoiks.
Tell me about it, I still can't do our 4th awase without some trepidation, But this was definatly a case of someones Ego out doing their ability, fortunately this guy only trains with us occassionaly now, He cost us a few students when our Dojo was starting out.

It has become a sort of joke in the Dojo during Ken Awase to scratch the corner of your mouth when doing 4th Awase with me.

one4k4
11-12-2002, 10:39 AM
I've been injured by the mat... the mounting decided it'd let my toe get caught under it while I was walking along the edge.. ouch.. I also tend to get cut by a nail and for instance, last week, I bled on my gi and the gi of my uki, before I realized I was even bleeding. No big deal, but it was kinda scary when he said he knew just how to remove blood stains. ;)

gi_grrl
11-21-2002, 08:23 PM
I also nearly had my thumb ripped off - as uke in a grab type attack, thumb caught in nage's gi, nage threw me anyway. Took about six months to be able to apply any strength again. It was a good learning experience, I finally learnt to use centre for kotegeish instead of using the stength in my hands.

I have a dodgy joint in my neck from way back when I started training and Sesnei demonstrated how easy it is (for him at least) to pick me up and throw me in the air. Up head first, down head first. Ouch. It falres up whenever I'm too jerky in my reactions.

Apart from that bruises, nail-cuts etc. Nothing too serious.

mstoddart
11-22-2002, 12:50 AM
in the 4+ years that i've been practising, i've had a twisted ankle, sprained thumb and torn shoulder muscle. Of course, the thumb and ankle were from telemarking (skiing); only the shoulder was from aikido -- a vigorous randori. Of course, there's the odd bruise, broken toe-nail, and other minor ouchie, but I've probably been scraped up more during rock climbing.

pointy
11-22-2002, 02:08 AM
like others, lots of fingernail scratches. i have found that fingernails dont have to be particularly long to give a good cut.

a bunch of split / fat lips, one black eye (just a little black :) )

one scraped and bloody chin from sensei's stiff gi and good iriminage.

both thumbs have skiier's thumb from my first week of aikido doing static ushiro grabbing attacks.

both wrists have been sprained from kotegaeshi / nikkyo / shihonage.

both big toes have been crunched really badly. one on the side of the mat in queens and once from it rolling under my foot towards the sole. that one hurt a lot and triggered an asthma attack. :freaky:

a bunch of my joints crack now, usually in places where i've been hurt at one point or another. i think the ligament get stretched and starts cracking later...is that how that really works?

most of the little ones (stubbed toes, bruises-to-be, etc.) are pretty easy to ignore. it's not like they're going to do any real damage. some people pay attention to every little bump - WIMPS! :)

finally, my last one of note is - -

someone slapped out of their breakfall by slapping my nuts.

that was actually the moment i realized how to ignore the pain.


and i've just been doing aikido for 6 weeks!!
.
..
...
....
......

nah, im just playing with you.

btw, Yamada Sensei's seminar tonite in brooklyn was awesome.


peace

evan

pointy
11-22-2002, 02:25 AM
like others, lots of fingernail scratches. i have found that fingernails dont have to be particularly long to give a good cut.

a bunch of split / fat lips, one black eye (just a little black :) )

one scraped and bloddy chin from sensei's stiff gi and good iriminage.

both thumbs have skiier's thumb from my first week of aikido doing static ushiro grabbing attacks.

both wrists have been sprained from kotegaeshi / nikkyo / shihonage.

both big toes have been crunched really badly. one on the side of the mat in queens and once from it rolling under my foot towards the sole. that one hurt a lot and triggered an asthma attack. 8-0

a bunch of my joints crack now, usually in places where i've been hurt at one point or another. i think the ligament get stretched and starts cracking later...is that how that really works?

most of the little ones (stubbed toes, bruises-to-be, etc.) are pretty easy to ignore. it's not like they're going to do any real damage. some people pay attention to every little bump - WIMPS! :)

finally, my last one of note is - -

someone slapped out of their breakfall by slapping my nuts.

that was actually the moment i realized how to ignore the pain.

peace

evan

Jessica
11-22-2002, 09:35 AM
my sensei always says there are less registered injuries in aikido than there is in golf (!)
you might find this list interesting

Ta Kung
11-22-2002, 09:45 AM
Sometimes when doing breakfalls, my legs does a nutcracker technique on my... thingy. :eek:

Also, my wrists make a poping sound when i strech in nikkyo and sankyo. They didn't do that when I started. Is it proof of progress? :)

/Patrik