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bogglefreak20
10-25-2002, 05:16 AM
I just recently started training Ki Aikido (about a month's practice so far) and am absolutelly thrilled by it! :D I was looking for a non-competitive martial art to train for some years and finally got to know Aikido. As I understand some dojos have competitions - no offence to them ment from me...still I wonder what you all think of competitions in martial arts in general and especially in Aikido.

Have a nice day!
Miha

ian
10-25-2002, 09:18 AM
I've never done Tomiki aikido, but I have trained with one and under an instructor that previously did it. I couldn't tell any difference.

Ian

ian
10-25-2002, 09:19 AM
P.S. saying that, I'm not a Ki aikido person!

paul spawforth
11-21-2002, 11:06 AM
Hi Miha

I study Tomiki aikido and have taken part in two competitions so far....i have found aiki-competitions to be a come and test your skill and understanding of technique rather than a " i'm gonna beat you into the ground" competition. The general mood of the competitions is very friendly and you can also learn a lot from them. everyone treats each other with respect and there is no bad feeling afterwards, if anything it serves to solidify aiki-friendships between different people and clubs around the country.

Hope this helps

Paul

England.

Nacho_mx
11-21-2002, 11:34 AM
Competition has no place in Aikido. Cooperation does.

akiy
11-21-2002, 11:39 AM
In my mind and experience, competition exists in every single aikido dojo that I've been -- both in the original definition of the word ("to seek together" deriving from com- together + petere to seek) and in the more "modern" definition of having "win-lose" situation.

-- Jun

Nacho_mx
11-21-2002, 11:53 AM
Too bad.

Alfonso
11-21-2002, 11:56 AM
In my mind and experience, competition exists in every single aikido dojo that I've been -- both in the original definition of the word ("to seek together" deriving from com- together + petere to seek) and in the more "modern" definition of having "win-lose" situation.

but isn't the emphasis on the competitive aspect more of an issue?

competition seems to be part of human nature, no denying this. people bring it into the dojo.

emphasis on competitivity in the instruction seems to be different animal altogether. I don't recall ever being praised or feeling good about doing whatever it takes to get that uke down to the ground, regardless of the way it was done..

akiy
11-21-2002, 12:14 PM
Too bad.
Are you saying "too bad" to both the "seeking together" kind of competition as well as the "win-lose" kinds of competition?

I'm always happy to find someone who is willing to help me seek things out together with me.
but isn't the emphasis on the competitive aspect more of an issue?
It probably would be if people trained primarily for that aspect. I don't know of any "styles" of aikido that train with the "win-lose" kind of competition first and foremost; some use it as an adjunct to their regular training and not as its primary point.

Many people in "competitive" martial arts like judo lament the fact that many people these days seem to be just in it for its tournaments and such.
competition seems to be part of human nature, no denying this. people bring it into the dojo.
Exactly. Also, see my thoughts on the original defintion of "competition" as well.
emphasis on competitivity in the instruction seems to be different animal altogether. I don't recall ever being praised or feeling good about doing whatever it takes to get that uke down to the ground, regardless of the way it was done..
I don't think people who engage in the "win-lose" kind of competition in aikido do such (ie do whatever it takes to get uke to the ground). Have you ever seen these kinds of competitions in aikido?

-- Jun

Nacho_mx
11-21-2002, 01:01 PM
Are you saying "too bad" to both the "seeking together" kind of competition as well as the "win-lose" kinds of competition?

Uke/Nage, neither opposites, nor rivals but 2 sides of the same coin. To understand aikido they must cooperate, not compete.

Alfonso
11-21-2002, 02:59 PM
Have you ever seen these kinds of competitions in aikido?

No, and I don't expect to , in any kind of Aikido teaching methodology.

This is what is one huge difference between Aikido and any competitive sport/ activity.

inevitably when the competition is the main thrust, the "winners" find ways to ensure their winning, regardless of the how to.

add money to the equation and the whole thing just goes to hell quickly quickly

akiy
11-21-2002, 03:49 PM
Hi Alfonso,
No, and I don't expect to , in any kind of Aikido teaching methodology.
Why not?
This is what is one huge difference between Aikido and any competitive sport/ activity.
My guess, then, is that you would never view competition as being mutually benificial (to steal a term) for both parties involved?
inevitably when the competition is the main thrust, the "winners" find ways to ensure their winning, regardless of the how to.
I guess that's why I wrote above that many people treat "competition" to not be their primary focus in their training.

I'm sure Peter Rehse will be the first to say that at the Shodokan hombu dojo, the emphasis on tanto randori is placed behind learning the techniques pretty much in the same way that any "other" aikido dojo would.

-- Jun

Alfonso
11-21-2002, 05:12 PM
Why not?

because I've encountered nothing that refers to Aikido that is like that, including Shodokan and Ki Society Kata competitions.

never ooooops no, competition is fun and you surely can have both parties benefiting from the exchange.

but not as the primary goal. I think you've made the point you're not talking about that.

Maybe the sticky point is money. I think i can safely generalize that most competitive /professional sports didn't start out with a win/lose mentality. but throw money into the equation, and it sure becomes important to win..

examples: Soccer (as played in the rest of the world, and as is catching up in the US) , Rugby (League vs Union), the football coach who said about winning "it's the only important thing.." (Lombardi?)

And then perhaps something less concerned with that -

the kids who never get to play -- because they're not a perceived asset to the team, etc etc.

Alfonso
11-21-2002, 06:10 PM
Hi again Jun,

I think I misread what your post
I don't think people who engage in the "win-lose" kind of competition in aikido do such (ie do whatever it takes to get uke to the ground).
what I meant is that I haven't seen/heard/read anything to indicate that the competition style aikido is focused solely in competition.

I understand the Shodokan uses competition in which there's a winner and a loser in its form.

But i've been under the impression that it was a complement to the cooperative training that I feel so endeared to.

In any case,

Hi Miha! Good topic for debate (welcome to debate-world)