Hello! Please advise me re: my son

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[BlackShawl]

Hello to all of you! It's so nice to stumble onto a community of such dedicated people.

I came here seeking advice and guidance about my 6-year old son. But first, I think I should provide a little background.

I have been studying hatha yoga for about 25 years-Integral yoga as brought to the US and taught by Swami Satchidananda. This is not the kind of trendy yoga that is popular today, but a quiet, meditative attunement of body, mind and spirit focusing on balance of the seven chakras.
This said, I have also studied Zen meditation with Alan Ginsberg and several other forms of eastern thought and spirituality. This study and meditation is very important to me and forms the basis of my personal values through which I relate to the world-tolerance, non-agression, respect and acceptance of all people as being valuable amid their frailties and flaws. My husband and I try very hard to instill these values in our son and daughter.

Herein lies my problem. My son goes to a public magnet (gifted and talented) school in a large urban area. Although the ability and aptitude of all the students is very high, many come from distressed homes where abuse, neglect, lack of education and financial resources are the prevalant. It has become neccesary for us to enroll him in some form of self-defense education because bullies and "playground politics" have begun to have a negative impact on him.

My husband, father-in-law (who studies Aikido in colorado) and I all feel that Aikido would be the perfect discipline for him providing physical training as well as mental focus and discipline. Aikido seems to be closest to the type of values by which we live our lives. Unfortunately, the dojos in our area do not teach to such young children. What should I do? Is there another form of martial art that is more appropriate? We have checked out Karate and Tae Kwan Do schools only to be dismayed by the aggressive approach exhibited by both teachers and students with little attention given to the meditative discipline needed to be skilled.

Any advice you could give would be sincerely appreciated by all of us.

[Larry Feldman]

6 is a little young for Aikido.

Judo is a great art to start young kids in, they learn to roll well at a young age which is important.

Tai Chi would work for you as well, but I think you will have a hard time finding someone teaching Tai Chi to kids. A local instructor told me he wouldn't do it because children find it as interezsting as watching paint dry.

You will have to balance what is available in a 'drivable' distance from your home. I read a study that quoted 8 miles as a maximun distance most will drive for class.

I would concentrate on the right instructor, more than the right art. Find one who relates well to kids and who gives them a non-fighting ethic in class.

Be wary of places with large yellow page ads, and don't sign any contracts. Look beyond the yellow pages. Ask your friends where their kids go and what else they looked at. Check out local YMCA's, and community colleges.

Ask some of the Aikido schools that won't teach your son at 6, if they know or would recommend any other places.

[rachmass]

My son started aikido at age 4, way too young. He practiced until age 8, still too young. Now he doesn't want to do any martial arts (he's almost 13), let alone aikido. Be careful of asking a child to train too early.

I agree with what Larry said. Just try something really accessible to a young child.

Best of luck on this!

[BlackShawl]

Why do you think 6 (almost 7) is too young to start Aikido training?

He does pretty well joining me in yoga practice although it's a bit too slow for him.

I agree about Tai Chi. I've taken some classes and although I enjoyed it, I know my boy would not.

Thank you for your comments, can you elaborate?

[Bruce Baker]

I kind of went through a whole drama of my two sons adapting to the classroom, and standing up for what was right verses the teacher letting it go. The stress of the public school environment led to turmoil that eventually caused depression, which was then diagnosed as Attention deficite syndrome, with a side effect of Turrets, outbursts of thoughts without realizing you are speaking, from the medications.

What took years of examinations through the system turned into a worse situation because the majority of teachers and administrators were not trained to handle discipline level necessary to ride herd on the "normal" students.

Since we had to go through the system, it took five years to come to the conclusion that my first son needed to go to an alternative school and the school district did not have the proper educators with the proper training in place. Now this might not be the case where you are, but ... if your child is bright enough to do the work, and not be a discipline problem, then the situation will be glossed over. Once a child becomes a discipine problem, standing up for their rights with violoence meeting violence, or talk meeting talk, then the system kicks in.

You have to exploit the system with the rules at hand. You have to find out what type of discipline is in place, what type of enforcement is in place, what type of alternative education is allowed by the state, and you have to initiate contact with the child study team, the administration, and the teachers who are overseeing the situation.

There are some basic self defense moves that even a child of six should know, but knowledge is more powerful than a whole slew of lessons.

Knowing the system is your best weapon ... along with a few long talks about what is really going on verses what you think is happening.

But really, a good system of discipline, and a sharp teacher make the difference.

[BlackShawl]

I guess I should give a little more detail about my son's experience. He is a bright, well behaved first grader with all the scattered focus of any 6 year old. He is also left-handed, mathematically inclined and a little slow to develope large muscle coordination. In comparison to most of the other boys his age, he is not as heavy or tall-though on a pediatrician's growth scale-smack dab average.

There are some very tough 1st graders at his school who like to pick on him. I ask you--where does a 6 year old learn head-butting and groin kicks? other than from tough neighborhood kids, or the stupid TV (WWF and the like)? My son was dropped to the ground by two other boys on two consecutive days last week with this type of dirty street fighting. After meetings with the teachers, principal, and concerned parents we were advised by the principal to involve him in some self-defense training.

Which art form should we explore? I don't want him fascinated early on by kicking and punching. I want him to learn how to redirect negative energy away from himself and develope the inner strength to avoid such confrontations.

[Nacho_mx]

Your son is not a bully, nor he has a violent temper, that is clear. Unfortunately that puts him in disadvantage against the little punks who pick on him. Don´t discard karate or other striking arts (TKD, kempo), because he can get a fast start in developing some confidence and competitive spirit along with basic self defense skills. At his age aikido maybe too complex. Finally I don´t think he will become violent.

[Leslie Parks]

Glen Matsuda Sensei has a kids Aikido program in Nanuet, NY about a 30 minute drive from Westchester County (depending on exactly where you are). Dojo name is Shishinkan Dojo, Aikido of Rockland County. You can e-mail him at Shishinkandojo@aol.com.

One of my buddies in Chicago came from his dojo and RAVES about Matsuda Sensei's kids classes. I can't say what his minimum age is, but I'd strongly recommend contacting him. He is a highly respected instructor and individual.

[gamma80]

I agree with Larry in that you should concentrate more on the instructor than on a specific martial art. The dojo I studied jiujutsu at on Long Island was very defensively focused and not like many of the agressive schools out there. Communicate your wants and needs to the instructor and see if their response is acceptable to you. Ask to stay and observe a class or two.

[giriasis]

Well, I would recommend my dojo, but we're way down in Florida. My sensei does teach children as young as 5 and 6 but they have to have enough maturity to sit through a one hour class. What I have seen in the kids program at my dojo is that they kids love it and it's not too complicated for them to learn. They can get it, it just takes time and patience. If your son has the patience to do yoga with you, then he could probably fair well in an aikido class.

What helps with the kids class is that a few of the adults help out as assistant instructors. So that means the kids get a lot of attention and the assistant instructors are good at bringing the kids focus back. I help out a lot and the key is that I make it seem fun. And keep their pace up so they don't get bored.

So I would suggest looking for someone with patience and willingness to work with the little ones. It can be done. And also there needs to be support of the program from the rest of the dojo.

[lt-rentaroo]

Hello,

My belief is that six years old is not too young for Aikido. Just as Anne Marie stated, a child's ability to learn Aikido stems more from being able to pay attention in class and maturity than age.

The youngest student I've had was six, she was (I say was, because her father received a new assignment to Japan) a great student. Sure, she would occasionally act silly, but that is to be expected. The key was knowing how to refocus her thought into what was going on in class.

My advice for you is simple. If you decide to enroll your child in an Aikido class (or any martial art), look for an instructor who has experience working with young children; that is most important.

A good book regarding children and Aikido, is "Children and the Martial Arts: an Aikido Point of View" written by Gaku Homma. It's a wonderful book for parents and instructors. You can pick it up at Barnes & Noble. You can read a review about the book on this website, just click the "books" link on the home page.

[shihonage]

After meetings with the teachers, principal, and concerned parents we were advised by the principal to involve him in some self-defense training.

Which art form should we explore? I don't want him fascinated early on by kicking and punching. I want him to learn how to redirect negative energy away from himself and develope the inner strength to avoid such confrontations.
Aikido is an art, principles of which can be applied to self-defense, if the practitioner knows what he's doing.

However for your purposes, it is clear that your son needs to be taught some elementary self-defense. He can choose to learn an art later, if he so chooses.

You need to get your husband to teach your son to go completely apeshit and start whaling on those bullies like there's no tomorrow.

This is a defining time - either he becomes a victim, or he does not.

Soft thoughts of idyllic harmony are nice, but they have nothing to do with what's really going on when a bully gets into your face in school.

Andrenaline gets released, you lose control of all the fine motor skills which are taught in Aikido training, you get tunnel vision, lose control of the distance, your palms become cold and sweaty... etc etc.

[Wayne]

Hi,

My wife and I have a 5-year old daughter who is in between home school and kindergarten (don't ask, it's too long a story). She has expressed interest in the kids aikido class and has observed once but hasn't quite started it for real yet.

My two cents worth is that aikido is a pretty subtle art for a child below age 10 or so. I think that younger kids may do fine with it. The problem here is that the kids being mentioned in these messages (BlackShawl's son and Bruce's son) sound like they need martial art training. My suggestion would be to find a program like karate that teaches some offensive movements.

Two reasons:

1. A strong response to the bully or bullies may take care of the problem. Besides, the defensive aspects of aikido will not be learned in a few weeks of beginning kids training.

2. The peace and harmony of aikido can be learned later when the child has learned other effective mechanisms for coping with bullies.

Don't get me wrong, I love aikido for myself and I'd love for my daughter to be involved. I just don't think aikido will provide an immediate answer for schoolyard problems.

Wayne

P.S.

Let me strongly support the previous comments that the art is much less important than the instructor. The kids won't learn even the best art from a lousy teacher.

W

[Brian H]

He is a bright, well behaved first grader with all the scattered focus of any 6 year old. He is also left-handed, mathematically inclined and a little slow to develope large muscle coordination. In comparison to most of the other boys his age, he is not as heavy or tall-though on a pediatrician's growth scale-smack dab average.
Your son sounds much like mine and I am in the same "feeling out" process you are.

I would say that "pure aikido" is not for the young. The joint manipulations of many common techniques are rough on growth plates. Most of the childrens programs I have herd about are more "team tumbling" than self defense. That sort of thing is very age appropriate and helps the developmental build skills children need. (but none near my home)

I have been leaning toward one of the striking arts for my son. There are a dozen karate or TKD dojos nearby. My main reason is that striking builds focus and teaches how to control intent. Practicing kata helps them learn how to perform complex tasks. I have not found the right place/teacher yet, but they all are full of busy kids in padded rooms.

My hope is to find an "all ages" program so we can go do something together.

As to bullies, ... once they learn that someone is willing to hit them, they find they are not willing to be hit by them.

[L. Camejo]

From what you have said I am inclined to think that something like Judo, Karate or ITF Tae Kwon Do may help your son.

Like many have said above, the teacher is a lot more important than the art. The key is to seek out someone who has the knack for dealing with young kids, while keeping in mind your son's reason for being in class.

Personally, I don't think Aikido would be the best bet from a self defence aspect for kids. It takes a while for many adults to be confident in self defence using Aikido, let alone children.

Like Brian said, the main emphasis of kids classes tends to be on breakfalling, tumbling and basic coordination skills. Not enough for effective self defence.

I like Judo because the kids learn how to fall properly, as in Aikido. The ground techniques are like wrestling for them - fun factor established, and the techniques don't involve the small joint manipulation of Aikido, so they can practice with a good level of safety to the growth plates, while learning some usable self defence skills. The best part of Judo training for any self defence is the ability to break a person's balance. This will equalise, if not invert the balance of power, as in the case of your son, who is a bit smaller as you said.

Striking arts work well also, except I think that if your son learns to hit, let him learn to hit well. Many times when a strike lands, but is not effective, it has the effect of aggravating the aggressor to even more violence.

Whatever you decide, it would be advisable to look on at the classes to get a good idea of what your son is learning so you can advise him suitably when you prepare him for school.

Check out Watanabe Judo & Aikido school on this link -http://www.hvnet.com/TOUR/we/BODY/martial.htm - it may be of help.

Hope this helps.

L.C.:ai::ki:

[Larry Feldman]

My earlier comments about 6 being to young, were mentioned by others as a coordination issue.

One of my senior students and I joke around that if you knew you had to learn to fight in 6 weeks, Aikido is probably not the art to start studying.

That said, you have a real issue. The principal you are dealing with is incompetent for condoning bullying in the school. I would raise that issue with the school board.

When you find an instructor, make it clear that your son is being attacked in school, and have him focus on a few practical techniques immediately.

Call my old Ju Jitsu instructor. He is very well known in the NY/NJ area, and may be able to recommend a good teacher.

Miachael DePasquale Jr. Dojo Yoshitsune in Riverdale NJ(201) 666-7100, tell him that I suggested you call. Explain your dilema and he should be able to help.

[Aikiscott]

I agree with what most people have said so far. Aikido is an excelant martial art for people of all ages, but it does take some time before you can truely use it for self defence.

Your son should really get some grounding in an offensive martial arts such as Karate, Kempo, I myself started my martial arts journey this way in Shotokan Karate,there should be at least one good Karate/Kempo dojo in your area.

Though in my opinion if you like Aikido,why not see if there are any Hapkido schools in your area, it combines Aikido like throws with TKD style kicking & Punching & realy focuses in on self defence, though beware of the TKD instructor who has learnt a few throws from a few Judo class's & then sets himself up as a Hapkido Instructor.

I personaly have not practiced Hapkido, but I train with a few X-Hapkido practioners & have been on the recieving end of few Hapkido style techniques they do work quite well.

As has been said before it realy doesn't matter about the style of martial art, but rather the instrucor who is teaching the art.

good luck with your search

[G DiPierro]

The interesting thing about kids and Aikido is that kids are the only group of society for which overt physical violence is frequently a fact of everyday life. They are the people that have the best opportunities to actually use the techniques of Aikido, yet few people are willing to teach them. And even when they do, sometimes it is more "movement games" rather than Aikido techniques. I find that a bit ironic.

Lynn, in addition to the recommended book by Gaku Homma, you should read the article on teaching kids Aikido (http://www.aikidoonline.com/Columns/clmn_0902_kids1.html) at Aikido Online by Peter Bernath, who is Anne Marie's teacher in Florida.

Douglas Firestone's dojo in White Plains does not teach children, but at least two other nearby USAF dojos do: Ray Farinato's dojo in Stamford, CT and Jerry Zimmerman's dojo in Englewood, NJ. Even if both of those are too far for you it might be a good idea to call or visit (and watch a children's class) as they might know of others.

[giriasis]

Thank you Giancarlo for posting that link to Aikido Online. I haven't visited it recently. I just want to re-emphasize that because of my experience as an adult assistant instructor in the kids class at Florida Aikikai the children have a true capacity to learn aikido. I really think it's a mistake to think kids can't learn aikido. Sure the older ones learn it more quickly but the younger ones learn it, too.

I've train with some of the ones who transitioned into the adult classes and I will have to say that they demonstrated resounding skill in the basics. I really enjoy watching and teaching the younger ones. They have so much energy and fearlessness. You'd be surprised what they can do once you believe in them.

As mentioned in the article, the basics can be taught -- you just need to know how to teach them.

To address the issue in question, I suggest finding any school that knows how to teach young children. That's the key. I understand wanting to avoid any real strict atmosphere. If you look around, you can find a school that emphasis good etiquette without a rigid militaristic approach.

Martial arts training also teaches the kids another thing -- confidence, self-respect, coordination, and whether a fight is worth it or not. All these things can help your son defend him self by not appearing a victim, thereby, avoiding the fight. I also agree that the blame also shouldn't be placed on you. The school has a responsiblity to proved a safe atmosphere for children to learn in. It is so abhorrent to me that schools still accept bullying as status quo behavior among children. If you don't get a solution from the principle, go to the school board.

Good luck and please follow-up on Giancarlo's suggestions. You can also contact my sensei at http://www.floridaaikikai.com (You'll find his e-mail addy there.) He can refer you to others who can help you find a good school. Peter can tell you who to speak to at least at New York Aikikai (in NYC). They have a kids program, too. You can tell Peter I refered you to him.

[DanD]

1- You're soooooo lucky to have studied with A. Gisberg

2- Try to look for "Krav Maga" in your area. It is an Israeli developed self defense method. VERY effective. It's being taught to law enforcement and military forces.

It can be learned in a relatively shorter time that most martial arts, as there is no "Do" to it. The "Art" is sort of missing in it, but it's also not the point. The point is strictly self defense. It's based on Judo, Jiu-Jitsu, Karate Aikido and a lot of practicality and "street survival wisdom" (if you can add wisdom to any fight;)... well I guess that if you're cornered there is sometimes no choice.

After learning some good skills I'd rather get back to Aikido :)

Good luck

For more:

http://www.krav-maga.com/

http://www.kravmaga.com/

http://www.kravmagainc.com/

[Creature_of_the_id]

over here in britain,I am not allowed to teach young children without special insurance and qualifications. Simply because their bones have not developed fully and so many of the pins are more dangerous on a young body. SO aikido has to be taught in a slightly different way to kids. Alot of the focus seems to be on movement and ukemi. Kids tend to be great at ukemi because they dont seem to have any fear of the floor... and they bounce.

I saw one kids instructor who had a huge ball she would roll through the dojo and the kids had to avoid it. If they got hit they would throw themselves through the air with ukemi.

I see childrens aikido as a great way to socialise, gain confidence, gain co ordination. But I'm not too sure how good it would be as a self defence at that age, mainly because of the limitations you have to put on the children due to limitations of their joints.
But, I think that will all depend on the teacher and how they want to focus the class, some may have more of a martial approach with kids.

[Conrad Gus]

In the kids class I used to help teach, we commonly allowed children to join at 5. Sensei once made a special exception for a boy who wasn't yet 5. The first few weeks we thought maybe it was a mistake, but that boy LEARNED how to be in an Aikido class before he was 5. It was a remarkable transformation and we were glad he had been given the opportunity and support.

I don't think turning your son inyo a super ninja will solve his problems. Aikido may help him with issues of self-esteem and conflict resolution, where it sounds like you perceive the real challenges to be.

There's a lot more going on in a bullying situation than just physical violence. Aikido may be just the solution for him, with the right group.

As a parent, I really feel for you. Hang in there. It sounds like your son doesn't have any problems getting love in his life.

Conrad

[BlackShawl]

All of you have been so helpful! I talked yesterday with Douglas Firestone and Jerry Zimmerman and we have plans to visit Jerry's kid's class on Sunday to see if Jack has any interest in it.

I appreciate the suggestions about teaching him a striking form so that he can learn a few defense moves quickly to use if need be and I understand the resoning behind it. My problem is that I think it sends a mixed message to him. While he is taught at school and home that hitting or kicking someone is wrong, how can I teach him that it's OK in certain circumstances? I'm afraid that his thought processes are not sophisticated enough to make those distinctions, especially during a heated exchange or surprise attack.

The other thing about my boy that he really needs help with is a kind of stiffness and uncoordination in his hips and legs. for example, he can climb a flight of stairs one foot at a time in a walking fashion; however, he cannot descend steps without bringing the second foot down to meet the first. He is trying to correct this, which means it's not a set pattern. Thus, I believe the tumbling and rolling introduced in kids Aikido will really help him.

I cannot fault the principal for suggesting he learn to fight back a bit. He recognizes the nature of the population of children he supervises. He suggests that it may only take one time for him to establish himself as one not to be messed with. My problem is that this approach clashes with my somewhat pacifist values and those that we try to instill in our children. I think I'll just have to get over it.

Again, thank you for all your help.

I'll keep you posted.

PS. More than anything Jack wants to learn archery. He's ready to take a bow and arrow to school to show those toughs. Man, boys are so much different than girls!

[Creature_of_the_id]

Glad to hear you have found a childrens class for your son. Please keep us updated with his progress and how much he is enjoying it.

I personally wouldnt worry about him walking down the stairs like that :) it sorts itself out as his legs get longer.

I think I was still comming down the stairs on my bum at his age hehehe

[Bruce Baker]

I think you should enroll your child in some type of childrens class, whether it be Aikido, jujitsu, judo,or karate, childrens classes are very low impact and strictly no nonsense when it comes to bullying.

As for your school situation, the allowance of bullying is within the supervision of the school system and the enforcemetn of said rules. When the book of dirty tricks is used in the schoolyard, it is even more important that an internal system of vigilence and enforcement of discipline be employed.

The fact is, my two sons excelled in the alternative school because the discipline of rules was followed, the reward system was employed, and the encouragement to excell was twice to three times what the public schools used. Remember, these were kids who were bound for reform school if they didn't succeed in the alternative school, the bullys, discipline problems, and low achievers of the normal system.

I remember what it was like to have two or three bullys gang up on the new kid, and have to put up with group lies that would outweigh the truth of the victim. If you know the rules, find out what laws govern the system, your child may be eligable for an aid if there is continued problems with students and violence in the school system, and the system has to pay for the aid.

It may be to your advantage to confur with a representative from the NEA. In NJ, this is one of the best informed teacher unions and although there are other unions in other states, finding out the guidelines for putting an aide in the classroom may be the first step in quelling some of the problems of discipline.

I do not discount lessons, but all three of my children have no interest in further lessons after the age of 13, and occasionally ask DAD for advice, deferring to MOM's advice which comes from working the system and being a teacher who has exploited the rules.

In fact, many of the changes implimented in the last ten years were because of our long journey by using the system to change the standard rule of "... your child is a problem to the class" into " ... we have met the needs of your child, and he/she is an excellent student and joy to have in class."

Seriously, don't expect lessons to solve your problem, although it will help with later problems as you child rises in grade levels, right now, you need to rock the boat, and have the application implimented into the classroom.

Although my fist son was mainstreamed in his senior year of high school, finding the tough guys to be not as tough after attendingt his alternative school, I wish I would have had a car, got out at 10:30 every day to either go to work or go home ... the kid had a dream year graduation. He only had two classes, which means he did the entire curriculum that the normal kids did in public school, but finished it a grade ahead.

So, if you want your child to attend public school, you have to get involved.

I just a call about my youngest son threatening the other bullys in his school, so I need to go and do exactly what I have told you to do. They ain't gonna be happy to see me. I am not as politically correct as my wife, and the mainstreaming of my youngest child has not been enforced with the agreement of maintaining the same rules and curriculum he had at the alternetive school.

[Nacho_mx]

I appreciate the suggestions about teaching him a striking form so that he can learn a few defense moves quickly to use if need be and I understand the resoning behind it. My problem is that I think it sends a mixed message to him. While he is taught at school and home that hitting or kicking someone is wrong, how can I teach him that it's OK in certain circumstances?

When his well being is in danger...look a true pacifist is not naive. Turning the other cheek unfortunately will make the agressor stronger and more abusive, assured that it´s victim will not fight back. The concept i´m talking about is deterrance. If you show the confidence and capacity to defend yourself, most bullies will back down, because they´re cowards by nature. Maybe you fear he will become a bully with new acquired self defense skills? evileyes

[shihonage]

I cannot fault the principal for suggesting he learn to fight back a bit. He recognizes the nature of the population of children he supervises. He suggests that it may only take one time for him to establish himself as one not to be messed with. My problem is that this approach clashes with my somewhat pacifist values and those that we try to instill in our children. I think I'll just have to get over it.
Please do not make the same mistake that my parents made when I was small.

None of the things that you naively (and ignorantly, dare I say) cling on to, such as

"Ignore the bully and he'll go away"

"The bully's really a coward inside"

"Just talk to him",

are of any use or value to a little kid.

They hold no truth.

You are too far away from what's really happening and how it really feels.

Being a pacifist means being able to deal serious damage, but choosing not to.

The values that "you try to instill in your children" will not make them pacifists, they will make them pushovers, laughingstock of the class, psychologically scarred for the rest of their lives.

Please keep that under consideration.

[Brian H]

My son has always been a big kid with a soft heart.

When he was in pre-school, a little boy with a hard heart would pick on him.

One day, when I was picking him up from the playground he ran up to me in tears after being shoved to the ground.

After learning the details, I explained to him that if it happened again he should "punch him in the mouth and knock him on the ground."(sounds harsh, but I always prefer a simple plan)

My son declined my advise (I never thought he would do it anyway) and explained to me that "Ms. Kelly says no hitting is allowed."

That was fine, because my true audience was lurking behind the play scape listening to my ever word.

Well, my son is still a big kid with a soft heart and while he would not have beat the kid up, he never was picked on by him again.

The fact that my son had a "green light" to defend himself was enough to restore peace to his corner of the playground.

Bullies are cowards, they just need a little hep to realize it.

[BlackShawl]

Shihonage-

I think it's a big leap from one playground work-out session to my son being "a laughingstock'" and "phychologically scarred for life." The reason I'm pursuing Aikido training for my son is because it most closely conforms to the principles by which we, as a family and individuals, live our lives. If I let one or two 6-year-old playground bullies affect and change our value system, then I've let him win, haven't I?

[MaylandL]

Hello Mr Miller

I can understand your concerns regarding the safety of your son. Though my son is older I have had similar concerns but I have relied on the School's policy on bullying and also referred it to the Principal, School Counsellor and Police Officer stationed at the school.

Can I refer you to the following sites that make some comments about the difference between self defence and martial arts training.

http://www.sammyfranco.com/

http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/home.html

I am not suggesting that you send your son to these people for training, only that consider what they have to say about the nature of self defence vs martial arts training. That might help clarify the nature of the training and its effectiveness as a self defence application. Also they make comments about being assertive vs agressive vs "looking like a victim".

Best of luck with your endeavours and training.

[G DiPierro]

My problem is that I think it sends a mixed message to him. While he is taught at school and home that hitting or kicking someone is wrong, how can I teach him that it's OK in certain circumstances?
I really have to agree with you 100% here. When I was a kid in fifth grade, I finally stood up to one boy who was trying to bully me and I punched him in the face. It gained me some respect in the short term, but looking back on it it don't feel that great about having handling things that way. Knowing what I know now, I realize that it was all so unneccesary. Hitting him because I knew of no better way to stand up for myself is no better behavior than what the bullies are doing. They just don't know any better. As Aikido students, we should.
I cannot fault the principal for suggesting he learn to fight back a bit. He recognizes the nature of the population of children he supervises. He suggests that it may only take one time for him to establish himself as one not to be messed with. My problem is that this approach clashes with my somewhat pacifist values and those that we try to instill in our children.
Maybe one of the next advances in our society's treatment of children will be to no longer tolerate child-on-child physical abuse. Many people today, I think, would be surprised at how accepted adult-on-child physical abuse was up until quite recently.

In any case, one will always be "messed with" in one way or another throughout life, whether it is overt violence, threats, or more subtle manipulation. Yes, properly striking someone one time will give your son a reputation that should eliminate his being bullied, but it's not the best way of accomplishing this. I think you are right to suspect that the reputation he would gain by such actions is not the one that you would want him to have.

Here's an example. Consider that your son is in a fight that he cannot avoid and finally feels that he needs to stand up for himself and punch the other guy. But instead of punching him, he places the base of his palm underneath the boy's neck, and then raises his hand, cocking the other boy's head back. At the same time he also moves his own body forward. This offsets the other boy's balance, causing him to stumble and fall backwards.

This is a real Aikido technique that most adults practice. I did a few today, in fact. And your son will (or should, at least) learn how to this and other things like it in Aikido. However, he will also learn much, much more. The response I described above might be an appropriate reaction for a young child, but among adult Aikido students this would be considered a fairly base way of handling an actual conflict. There is a very good reason why people say that Aikido students are much less likely to get into fights than other martial artists, and it's because Aikido really does teach the skills to defuse these situations even before they arise.
PS. More than anything Jack wants to learn archery. He's ready to take a bow and arrow to school to show those toughs. Man, boys are so much different than girls!
I doubt that you will find a kyudo dojo that accepts young children. Even if you did, I doubt that the principal would allow him to carry the bow in school.

[achilleus]

. What should I do? Is there another form of martial art that is more appropriate?

As many others have replied, aikido is wonderful for me and I hope to one day share it with my daughter and son. But may I suggest another alternative?

I have a fencing colleague who teaches in New York and New Jersey. We are part of a small community who still teach western fencing as a martial art, i.e. the Art and Science of defense.

Our fencing lessons are a scientific approach to understanding the nature of the attack so that you can defend based on simple principles, viz. time and distance.

And, its fun!

Look at the Martinez Academy of Arms:

http://www.martinez-destreza.com/

for more information.

I realize it may not be around the corner, but I have students who drive 50 miles roundtrip twice a week to study with me so I don't hesitate. maybe I'm spoiled - ;)

DA

[Bruce Baker]

Well, since my last post on this thread I have had all hell break loose in the worst way for my thirteen year old son in eigth grade.

Trying to resolve a bully problem where two or three bullys have cause my son to describe his feelings toward the class who are followers as being so angry he could stab them all with his fathers daggers, has hit the zero tolerance for violence, and been glossed over with "school policy overrides the state law" as a response. So now, I too am faced with a few decisions.

State law says that with the IEP for my son he can not be held responsible for acting within the limits of his classification, but school policy says he must be suspended for ten days until a manifestation meeting of where he will go to school or temporarily be sent to pursue his education. What really, realy, really ticks me off is that his case worker who was supposed to assess the situation and take the proper steps to properly handle it set it into motion by punishing the victim for telling the truth, his true feeling about what has been an escalating situation over the first three weeks of September.

I got absolutely no help until I told them I would teach him how to hurt these children without leaving any marks because they were unable to resolve the situation. All jaws dropped in dead silence.

Right now, I have started him with the adult class of Aikido, and he really loves working with the adults who are helpful, focused and no nonsense.

Maybe teaching him a few pressure points to inflict maximum pain when executing some simple Aikido techniques will suffice for now, but until he emotionally stabilizes from losing the trust of staff, counselors, and administration, I don't want him back in the public school system. The never should have taken him out of the alternative school system if they weren't able to keep all the hollow promises of supplying the same level of discipline and instruction in the alternative school.

I don't think he will break any bones, or do serious injury should this situation call for violence, but if it does ... I have plan B for alternatives to working within the rules while not breaking the law.

Oh, well. Thought you might feel better to find someone else who is bucking the discipline in the public school system.

[Brian]

Something to consider...

How long does it take a typical adult - someone with fully developed fine motor skills - to become proficient enough in aikido to actually use it?

How long, then, would it take a child, who is still developing his motor skills, to become proficient enough in aikido to actually use it?

The direct punches of boxing/striking, and the clinching and throws of wrestling/grappling, although they can be greatly refined through practice, involve simple, gross motor skills, which more or less come naturally to humans. If you watch two untrained guys get in a fight, 9 times out of 10 they will either start swinging or get into a clinch. This is why the learning curve for this type of fighting is so much shorter than aikido's - the movements involved are the natural way that humans defend themselves.

It seems to me that your son needs to be able to defend himself ASAP. Most people from my dojo say they took at least a year before they could practically apply aikido, and they are adults. I understand that you do not wish to compromise your pacifistic beliefs, and wish to pass these on to your son. But the fact of the matter is, your son can not be a pacifist and fight back at the same time. And since aikido would be impractical for him at his age and in his situation, he can only defend himself by fighting back - yes, that's right, by being aggressive. You're going to have to make a decision, and I urge you to teach your son how to pop those bullies right in the kisser.