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Chris Li
05-20-2017, 01:21 PM
New blog post! "Ueshiba-ha Daito-ryu Aiki-jujutsu (http://www.aikidosangenkai.org/blog/ueshiba-ha-daito-ryu-aiki-jujutsu/)" - on Morihei Ueshiba and his continuing relationship with Daito-ryu, from 1915 to 1969.

Enjoy!

Chris

Ellis Amdur
05-20-2017, 10:46 PM
Chris - I was not able to tell - to whom (beyond the one to Mochizuki sensei) were each of these Hiden Mokuroku awarded?
And then, secondarily, I've seen cases where a mokuroku is awarded (as tradition, so to speak), but the techniques within are not necessarily all taught. Do you have any information on this, concerning the individuals who received these mokuroku.
Ellis Amdur

Dazaifoo
05-20-2017, 11:22 PM
I put up a scan of the 1925 scroll here including the page with the recipient. https://www.facebook.com/ex.daijin/media_set?set=a.10209449629660676.1073741829.1323433423&type=3&pnref=story
The 1925 copy I was able to purchase through a collector. The 1960 one, well that got sold to a high bidder way above my pay grade. Foo.

Chris Li
05-20-2017, 11:52 PM
As Scott said, the clearer one is from 1925, the second one is from 1960. I don't know how closely he stuck to the scrolls when teaching the techniques in either case.

Best,

Chris

Ellis Amdur
05-20-2017, 11:57 PM
I cannot make out to whom these two scrolls were awarded. I see that they are signed by Ueshiba (and particularly intriguing re 1960), who were the recipients?
Ellis Amdur

Chris Li
05-21-2017, 12:19 AM
I cannot make out to whom these two scrolls were awarded. I see that they are signed by Ueshiba (and particularly intriguing re 1960), who were the recipients?
Ellis Amdur

The 1960 scroll was issued to 島居康三 Kozo Torii. Scott, can you see the name on the 1925 scroll?

Best,

Chris

Dazaifoo
05-21-2017, 12:19 AM
I could be off on the readings, but they appear to be a 高岡謙吉 Kenkichi Takaoka (1925) and one 島居康三 Kozo Torii (1960). Who they were in the grand scheme of things, I do not yet know.

Chris Li
05-21-2017, 11:13 AM
Now available in Spanish (https://medium.com/@hectormunozg/ueshiba-ha-daito-ryu-aiki-jujutsu-5cbbe11e6d78), courtesy of Héctor Muñoz García. The original English version is available on the Aikido Sangenkai blog (http://www.aikidosangenkai.org/blog/ueshiba-ha-daito-ryu-aiki-jujutsu/).

Best,

Chris

Ellis Amdur
05-22-2017, 12:23 AM
I received a private comm about one of the aikido shihan who also owned one of these mokuroku. As he was 'one among many,' it leads to a possible avenue of investigation that many of the shihan of the last generation have such a scroll in their possession. Then:
1. There's been a long discussion about who are genuine aikido shihan - and over the years, the Aikikai has given a number of not fully satisfactory answers to this question. Could it be that this is tatemae --and that the honne, (the truth) lies in the presentation of such a mokuroku - in other words, at least in Morihei's era, a sixth, seventh, whatever dan, without a mokuroku in hand, was not an aikido shihan.
2. A next important question is if Ueshiba formally taught these techniques, one by one, including bo and umbrella and etc. (My first impulse is to doubt this - not infrequently, mokuroku can be presented as symbolic, even when the specific techniques are no longer taught - and Ueshiba, as always, had Takeda as his model - as the latter presented Ueshiba with a Shinkage-ryu document without ever teaching him the material (which Takeda, very likely, didn't even know).
3. The earliest of the Ueshiba Hiden Mokuroku is from the mid-1920's - are there, anywhere, any earlier extant examples of the Hiden Mokuroku scrolls, authored by anyone? A lot of talk (I've been part of it) about the inchoate nature of Takeda Sokaku's teaching style, and how the current curriculum was largely set up by Takeda Tokimune - but Takeda, in the 1920's, was still a child - Ueshiba is presenting an established mokuroku . . . .
4. And I cannot help saying this with a smile - is it possible that Ueshiba, himself, had a hand in the development/arrangement of the Hiden Mokuroku arrangement? Takeda couldn't really write - and as he said to his father, "I'll get others to write for me." - - - - who sat down and arranged this?
Ellis Amdur

Chris Li
05-22-2017, 02:13 AM
Hi Ellis,

All good questions. My hunch is that there are a fair number of these certificates out there - I've seen at least one myself that the holder is not ready to let out the public just yet, but would push the dates that Morihei Ueshiba was issuing these back to the late 1960's.

1) I don't know exactly what the certificates meant to Ueshiba - but of course we've all heard stories about his lack of interest in dan rankings. It may well be possible that they were the ura to the omote.

2) Generally speaking, I haven't gotten the impression that either Takeda or Ueshiba were rigorous about teaching a set curriculum - ie, teaching according to the scrolls.

3) and 4) are interesting thoughts - Kotaro Yoshida had (apparently, if one believes Richard Kim) nine scrolls, with different names than the traditional ones, which may or may not indicate something, since he was somewhat earlier than Ueshiba. Also around that time was Kodo Horikawa, who copied out many of the actual scrolls that were given out by Takeda - but didn't receive those scrolls until 1931 (which would be after both Kotaro and Ueshiba's 1925 scroll), so the Kodokai might be a place to start with that.

Things will leak out eventually, I think. :)

Best,

Chris

Ellis Amdur
05-22-2017, 02:49 AM
There is a photograph of the "nine scrolls' in an old Black Belt article. Here's a page with them reproduced - http://butokukai-eng.weebly.com/osensei-richard-kim.html

The Yoshida family, fwiw, still resides in Japan, reportedly with a fair amount of family records.

Ellis Amdur

Ellis Amdur
05-22-2017, 08:02 AM
I did the obvious - a google search in Japanese of 高岡謙吉 Kenkichi Takaoka and 島居康三 Kozo Torii along with 合気道. Nothing at all - which makes things more interesting.

Ellis Amdur

Chris Li
05-22-2017, 10:03 AM
I did the obvious - a google search in Japanese of 高岡謙吉 Kenkichi Takaoka and 島居康三 Kozo Torii along with 合気道. Nothing at all - which makes things more interesting.

Ellis Amdur

Yes, I wasn't able to dig up much either. Not too surprising with the 1925 name, but I thought that I'd be able to come up with the 1960 holder.

Best,

Chris

Chris Li
05-26-2017, 06:00 PM
Now available in Italian (https://enriconeami.net/2017/05/25/ueshiba-ha-daito-ryu-aiki-jujutsu/), courtesy of Enrico Neami. The original English version is available on the Aikido Sangenkai blog (http://www.aikidosangenkai.org/blog/ueshiba-ha-daito-ryu-aiki-jujutsu/).

Best,

Chris

Conrad Gus
05-30-2017, 04:38 PM
I like this article. I usually just tell people that aikido is a specific flavor of jiu-jitsu, with a bit more emphasis on the peace and love side of things. The more I study with teachers from DR-derived schools the less "special snowflake" aikido seems to be. That's not a bad thing for me or for aikido, IMHO.

Conrad Gus
05-30-2017, 04:42 PM
But I have to say: "Aikido" has a way better ring to it than "Ueshiba-ha Daito-ryu Aiki-jujutsu".

Chris Li
05-31-2017, 08:00 PM
The Spanish version - now hosted on the Aikido Sangenkai blog (http://www.aikidosangenkai.org/blog/ueshiba-ha-daito-ryu-aiki-jujutsu-spanish-version/).

Best,

Chris