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PeterR
08-28-2002, 11:10 PM
Dear all - is it just me or is there an upsurge in vain glorious attempts to pin personal philosophies on Aikido.

Some of the discussions are interesting but I really wonder how many really have anything to do with Aikido.

I never hear this stuff in the dojo, and nowhere near the volume during beer waza.

Simple question but do your sensei sit you down and lecture on this stuff or is it made up as you go along.

chadsieger
08-29-2002, 01:21 AM
At my dojo, practice time is practice time. Those interested in lingering are sure to hear a lesson, or more once you learn to listen for them.

I personally feel that the pilosophy aspect not only helps the physical aspect develop, but it seems much more than that. I feel that they should be taken together in healthy doses to create something that is greater than the sum of its parts. Ueshiba for one.

Thankfully, they are both enjoyable! :D

Sieger

jk
08-29-2002, 04:31 AM
Most of us should just shut up and train...and I think I'm going follow that advice now; been cruising by these forums too often. :)

Regards,

mike lee
08-29-2002, 04:42 AM
Anyone has the right to engage in a thread on anything. If anyone doesn't want to engage in a particular thread, they also have that right. But creating a thread to say that one doesn't want to engage in another thread seems ludicrous -- or maybe it's just another form of vanity.

PeterR
08-29-2002, 05:05 AM
Just a comment Mike - did I or anyone say we didn't want to participate in any threads.

I am just wondering about the source of all these "Aiki truths".
Anyone has the right to engage in a thread on anything. If anyone doesn't want to engage in a particular thread, they also have that right. But creating a thread to say that one doesn't want to engage in another thread seems ludicrous -- or maybe it's just another form of vanity.

mike lee
08-29-2002, 05:12 AM
I am just wondering about the source of all these "Aiki truths".

Why not just ask them?

ian
08-29-2002, 06:34 AM
I would say everyone's philosophy is very individual, unless they are indoctrinated. In my mind the 'philosophy' of aikido is not one single set of concepts, and it can easily be interpreted differently. Also there are philosophies e.g. buddhism, which are not directly related to aikido philosphy but are linked with Japanese thought and martial arts. This is by far a better place to discuss philosophical matters than down the pub or in the dojo!

Ian

Chris Li
08-29-2002, 06:57 AM
Why not just ask them?
He did - in the post that started this thread :).

Best,

Chris

Bruce Baker
08-29-2002, 07:58 AM
I guess the simplicity of realizing we all meet at different crossroads during different times of our lives, learn from different experiences, and come to different conclusions based on those experiences is a moot point in the light of the question.

I agree that many of the philosophies are either being formed or learned, and in this learning stage they are somewhat off track, but of course they are correct for the experiences and lifestyles of each person.

I know not all of you have had the luxury of being attacked, criticized to the point of being ostrichsized, or had a long period of time to reflect upon finding the man made doctrines, that is the many simularitys of O'Sensei/ Jesus/ Allah/ and other sages pointing the way to learning, that when compared in the light of what humanity wants compared to our deeds of history show the truth of who and what we could be or what the human race is.

I guess we expect the doctors of theology, and professors of universitys to find these tedious answers, report to us their findings within a scientific method that still fits within the "leap of faith" concept of most religions.

Yes, our Aikido conversations do wander much further in the Aikiweb than they do when we are face to face in social situations. Could it be because when we are facing the words we contrive on our screens that we are actually thinking with more of our brains formulative cognition than when we are confronted by multiple stimuli of social interaction? I would hope so.

Sometimes, not often, I do have a chance to sit with people who have twenty or more years in Aikido and other martial arts to hash about some of the stories, ideas, or intended/ unintended direction of Aikido's Philosophys.

I did have a small chance when many of the teachers in my tri state area attended John Stevens sensei seminar in July. To my surprise, some of them had read some of my outlandish posts in agreement, but they laughed at how boldly I had honestly posted some of the philosophys as they knew the general concensus disagreed with spiritual aspects, pressure points, and delving into the more advanced training of mind over body.

Yeah, we can train ... train ... train, but in what regard is this training beneficial if it is merely the hand to eye coordination of other martial arts, or the act of agression to quell agression? There has to be some kind of underlying philosophy to guide us in a moral character beyond the acts of violence.

Even a soldier should have a conscious with adequete information to accomplish his/her duties, not be the robotic instrument of some officers petty emotional instruction? ( I was in the military, and I did embarass many an officer who gave robotic commands without dispensing the proper knowledge to complete tasks or purpose of tasks. I have a couple of captains masts to prove it.)

Philosophy gone bad?

Well then, let's just dispense a little more knowledge, some instuctional directions to acquire knowledge, and kick it about a bit more until we are all clear on where we are going with Aikido, or at least some of the ways to get there.

SeiserL
08-29-2002, 09:08 AM
I would agree that we need to balance our philosophizing with our sweat. We talk very little at our Dojo, that time is to train the body. Sort of, if you teach the body the mind will follow. Some of us intellectual types also like to train the mind so the body can follow. IMHO, each has its place.

Until again,

Lynn

BC
08-29-2002, 09:23 AM
Dear all - is it just me or is there an upsurge in vain glorious attempts to pin personal philosophies on Aikido.
It's not you, I feel the same way. It's one reason that I don't post that much anymore. I simply don't have the interest in participating in philosophical discussions about a very physical martial art. We never have these kinds of discussions in our dojo or during beeru waza - thankfully.

If some people want to discuss this kind of stuff on this forum, that's fine. I just don't feel the need or desire to participate, and just ignore them. No biggie. Whatever flips your cookie!

Paul Clark
08-29-2002, 10:03 AM
"ostrichsized"???

tedehara
08-29-2002, 11:12 AM
Dear all - is it just me or is there an upsurge in vain glorious attempts to pin personal philosophies on Aikido.

Some of the discussions are interesting but I really wonder how many really have anything to do with Aikido...
Personally, I see this as an attempt by people to come to intellectual terms with their practice of aikido. Here, they have a chance to express their views. Something they may not feel they have among their instructors and dojo mates.
...I never hear this stuff in the dojo, and nowhere near the volume during beer waza...
Even in the largest seminars, you would't have a chance to listen to the opinion of several thousand aikidoists. On this site, you can read that much and more. People who feel they have something to express probably gravitate towards this site because of its format.
Simple question but do your sensei sit you down and lecture on this stuff or is it made up as you go along.
In my case, some of this might be something my sensei said, but most of my views are formed by Ki Society literature. People like Koichi Tohei and William Reed have written extensively on both aikido and the Ki Society approach to it.

However I also have a collection of works by Aikikai instructors and other aikidoists. In addition, I have read other works outside of aikido that could relate. Other martial arts, Taoist/Zen philosophy, Yoga/Hindu philosophy and Western religion/philosophy, are just some of the areas that can be tapped for inspiration and understanding.

I am probably an extreme case, but I was never interested in aikido just as a martial art. I was always curious about its philosophy. This is not to say I ignore training, but I try to add to it by coming to an understanding of what I'm doing.

mike lee
08-29-2002, 11:30 AM
I can dig where you're coming from Ted -- except when one of those macho emotions invade my psyche! (Usually happens after I watch a John Wayne flick.)

deepsoup
08-29-2002, 12:32 PM
"ostrichsized"???
I think thats where they stick your head in the sand before they ignore you. :D

Sean

x

jimvance
08-29-2002, 03:10 PM
I think Ted did a great job of explaining the rationale. My question is "what philosopy are we overkilling?" I am glad that there is now a Aikigallery section, where we can see pictures of people, and that there is a humor section, where we can laugh about budo jokes, and that there is now a Voices of Experience section so old timers can talk amongst peers without us whippersnappers muddying up the waters. Online forums are really a new thing, and will continue to develop along with technology and human interest.

It's nice to expound on our own personal perspectives, that is the kind of person you find involved in Aikido. If you would like to hear more real life anecdotes, then don't complain, lead the way. The flavor of these forums is structured under a more "philosophical bent". Perhaps we need a more "anecdotal arena" to talk about what we are doing and why we find it significant to Aikido and why we are sharing it. Maybe we are still unsure of interacting in a more social function because we are still wary of the medium, as Bruce said. Typing reminds me of books, and I have time to be an author here, not just another guy with a beer in hand discussing the good throw of the night.

In this environment, I don't really care if the people writing have a day of experience or a lifetime. This is not a dojo, and we all have things to gain from each other. The question of whether people should spend more time in the dojo or on the Aikiweb is one they should be able to answer for themselves. I feel that saying "I am no longer participating on the Aikiweb so I can spend more time in the dojo" is an attempt at gaining moral superiority. Why not just say you no longer want to participate PERIOD. Nobody would be on this forum without some love or interest in Aikido, but this forum is not an Aikido dojo, and though there are experienced people on the forums, they don't take the place of my teacher. And that gives me the ability to consider the source and either let it in or tune it out. My personal opinion is that this is much better than subscribing to a magazine and buying a lot of books, but doesn't substitute for the real thing. It is an academic, not experiential.

Give it time to grow and change, or be more specific to the philosophical ramblings that offend. That way we can publicly ostrichsize the offenders.

Jim Vance

mj
08-29-2002, 04:41 PM
I can dig where you're coming from Ted -- except when one of those macho emotions invade my psyche! (Usually happens after I watch a John Wayne flick.)
The only thing I want to hurt after a John Wayne movie is John Wayne.

guest1234
08-29-2002, 06:03 PM
I personally think there are way more threads on why MA XYZ kicks Aikido's butt, or the other way around. I just don't bother reading most of them. If it doesn't interest you, or you disagree, just move on to something else. No need to even announce a part time or permanent departure. Just feel free to go. I think of this like a social gathering; I think folks can come and go from different threads, if it gets too heated a discussion, or it is bothering you, feel free to move to a different one, or just leave the party for awhile. Feel free to come back anytime.

jk
08-29-2002, 09:35 PM
I feel that saying "I am no longer participating on the Aikiweb so I can spend more time in the dojo" is an attempt at gaining moral superiority. Why not just say you no longer want to participate PERIOD.
You're right Jim...especially when the choice is really between Aikiweb and twiddling my thumbs in the office. Thanks for keeping me honest.

Regards,

shihonage
08-30-2002, 12:15 AM
This image accurately sums up my feelings about this thread.

Bruce Baker
08-30-2002, 09:28 AM
Ostrichsized .... (probably spelled wrong as it is not a commomly used word these days.)

How about shouted down by the unruly rabble, or chased out of barnyard by a gaggle of geese, or ignored by the villagers as the crackpot inventor?

Ostrich, that big African bird that does stick its head in the sand, but also can group and expell outsiders with great fighting prowess.

In social terms, it is the gaggle of women socially ignoring someone, or the social group of men denouncing or not letting someone into their group ... as I understand the term.

Should I also explain the old lady line of inside information for small towns, or have most of you experienced this firsthand?

If you didn't giggle or laugh at some of this, you need to be thrown until you get your sense of humor back.

Greg Jennings
08-30-2002, 10:01 AM
Ostrichsized .... (probably spelled wrong as it is not a commomly used word these days.)
Probably misspelled simply because you misspelled it.

--------------

Main Entry: os·tra·cize

Pronunciation: -"sIz

Function: transitive verb

Inflected Form(s): -cized; -ciz·ing

Etymology: Greek ostrakizein to banish by voting with potsherds, from ostrakon shell, potsherd -- more at OYSTER

Date: 1649

1 : to exile by ostracism

2 : to exclude from a group by common consent

----------------

jimvance
08-30-2002, 02:02 PM
Ostrichsized .... (probably spelled wrong as it is not a commomly used word these days.)Aside from the interesting etymological lesson given to us by Greg (thank you Greg), I think I like your new word better Bruce. It is a much more amusing visual picture. Some cultures relish a mistake that makes the subject matter much more interesting, like the upside down stamp. Kudos.

Jim Vance

mike lee
08-31-2002, 04:51 AM
I find it difficult to believe that anyone would give up dojo-time to write comments on aikiweb. (Such suggestions are the old holier-than-thou ploy.)

The "I'm going to take my ball and go home ploy" is another rather lame and immature effort to manipulate content on certain threads that they don't agree with, but lack the intelligence to contribute in any meaningful way.

Ultimately, these control freaks will be frustrated because open-minded participants will sooner or later refuse to subscribe to such a myopic approach.

Bruce Baker
09-02-2002, 10:13 AM
I should hope that the time spent on the Aikiweb is the time you have set aside to relax, think, read, ponder, and give you time to recover from the necessity of work.

I am thoroughly convinced that the adage of Train-train-train is both inadequete and imbalanced. Sooner or later, you reach a saturation point, and when that happens, you must rebalance the physical practice with some mental gymnastics.

Maybe we do overphilosophize in an attempt to rebalance the overkill of physical practice, and we should step back to reevaluate the balance of our lives.

In any case, I would hope that we find our balance with greater skilled fighters who would challenge us, but are either bluffed, bamboozeled, or overcome with words rather than physical skills of martial arts.

Besides, if we can't wander about and express some questions to philosophy here, then where?

So long as we all maintain our sense of humor, and treat each other with respect, why the hell not here?

And thank's Jun, for having a place for us to hash out our thoughts.

Brian H
09-02-2002, 03:03 PM
This all started with a bunch of pissing matches. Now that most people have put away their rulers, I think some pent up angst and such has been released. It is a big, complicated world out there and looking for ways to apply "aikido" to it is not a bad thing.

I have been practicing the "how" of aikido for a few years now. It has been nice to play around with the "why" with some new friends.

What good is a sword (or a mind) if you don't bring it out for a good polish it every-once-in-a-while.

By the way, what the hell is up with all the Bruce bashing? My mother taught me that, "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all."

Ben_t_shodan
09-02-2002, 11:45 PM
Simple question but do your sensei sit you down and lecture on this stuff or is it made up as you go along.
Not taught by lecture but through observation and life. (also the occasional short conversation)

Your Uke

Ben

Bruce Baker
09-03-2002, 07:20 AM
They are learning, if not slowly.

Eventually, the bashers of these posts will become enlightened, and I am sure they will fall silent by vitue of fear their peers will bash them for speaking what they think is out the normal range of accepted training/ philosophy.

In the last couple of seminars I have attended, I have been encouraged by a number of people to continue with many lines of thought, although tone it down so that the general population is not insulted at their lack of experience.

As far as Philosophy overkill?

Well, if we all spoke more honestly, more of us would progress to finding better ways to come to the truth.

History tells us, the truth for one given time is not always the truth for all time.

If I have not found truths for all time, then let us delve further, push our philosophys around, and come up with with something more usefull than spitting contests.

Kevin Leavitt
09-03-2002, 08:16 PM
The last couple of post reminded my of something. I had been studying martial arts for about 5 years prior to going to Army Ranger School.

I was very excited at the opportunity to immerse myself in one of the ultimate warrior experiences that one can have in his lifetime. I viewed it as a kind of longterm 24 hour per day/7 days a week personal shugyo. I really hoped that the intense experience would enlighten me in someway.

About 4 weeks into it as I was laying freezing in the cold, damp mud in a florida swamp covered with ticks, chigger bites, poision ivy, having lossed about 30 lbs, and not having slept more than 2 hours a night over the past 7 days, and having walked probably about 100 miles that week with 100lbs of gear, I thought to myself "well self, are you enlightened?"

The resounding answer was "NO" this just sucked!

Anyway, the one thing I did discover as I lay on the ground with the butt of my weapon lodged in my cheek, that there are alot of little ants and creatures crawling all over the ground that we do not pay attention to. So, I concluded that even in the hectic 24 hour a day pace I was doing, I noticed things that I never saw before...it was the little things in life that matter, we need to take the time out to pay attention to them everyday!

To bring this back on the topic now....

I left that experience with some new knowledge and some lessons, but I did not become "one with the universe" as I had hoped.

What I did discover 5 years afterward is that I found myself thinking back to my experience and discovering the things that I did learn. It took me another five years to make sense of the lessons and things that I could not see in the moment.

My point is, that experience is the best teacher...sometimes the lessons are not apparent and take time to put together. Things that seem "stupid" and pointless to one person at that time, may be relevant later on in life.

Discussing philosophy and concepts here with a group of people who are, I assume living the budo ethos helps us sort through the lessons of life and experience. I find this forum very helpful in that process.

Anyway, that is my ephiphany for the day!

PeterR
09-03-2002, 08:34 PM
They are learning, if not slowly.

Eventually, the bashers of these posts will become enlightened, and I am sure they will fall silent by vitue of fear their peers will bash them for speaking what they think is out the normal range of accepted training/ philosophy.You know I have found my Budo teacher - I was sent to him, stayed, left for Canada and found myself coming back. These forums are great in that I don't need to sweat over language and ideas are exchanged - the latter is a good thing.

However, enlightenment is definately not what I seek on these boards. Education and exchange yes - but I have chosen/been chosen by my guide on the Michi.

Is that closed minded - not at all. There is no attempt to prevent me from exploring further afield but separating the wheat from the chaff is becoming easier.

Face it people - there is an awfull lot of chaff out there.
Well, if we all spoke more honestly, more of us would progress to finding better ways to come to the truth.
I am being very honest. All view points are not created equal - the trick is understanding which ones are worth paying more attention to.

Controlling one's ego does not mean being dominated by someone else's.

You are not obliged to accept anything I say - it's just an opinion.

opherdonchin
09-04-2002, 02:35 PM
You know I have found my Budo teacher - I was sent to him, stayed, left for Canada and found myself coming back. These forums are great in that I don't need to sweat over language and ideas are exchanged - the latter is a good thing.

However, enlightenment is definately not what I seek on these boards. Education and exchange yes - but I have chosen/been chosen by my guide on the Michi.
So, if I understand you correctly, Peter, it is not that you object to philosophizing as a part of AiKiDo, but rather that you object to the quality of what's available on this forum.

Also, and I may be misunderstanding, there are some less philosophical topics where you are less sensitive to the quality of what's available here, or else you feel that on other issues the forum is more interesting.

Personally, I find these forums an exciting and unique opportunity to give and get feedback on ideas that really have no other place to go. These ideas have been developing in me slowly from when I first attended a class in AiKido, or perhaps even before that when my high school P.E. teacher assigned The Inner Game of Tennis as required reading for P.E. Some of my teachers have been the talking kind and never taught a technique with out discussing how it fit in with the Ai and the Ki. Other teachers have been technique focused, and some have even seemed to believe that the martial aspects of AiKiDo were the most interesting part of it. My thoughts have developed in harmony with some of the these teachers and in opposition to others. I have put off doing any real reading on the subject until just recently because I like to have my own ideas fairly clear before I really give myself over to a teacher (which may be why I do not have a whatdidyoucallit Budo teacher).

Now that I have started reading, however, I am sure that my perspective will continue to grow and change.

I'm pretty sure that I'm not different in this than many others.

aikigreg
09-04-2002, 03:00 PM
Aikiweb gives the opportunity to come and learn more about the martial art that I love. Background, philosophy, techniques, and camaraderie with other Aikidoka. I get to speak with teachers I will likely never physically meet in my life. This has GOT to be one of the best tools of knowledge ever. Why, just this morning I looked at a GREAT link of the bokken kumitachi so I can practice. I would have not seen them otherwise without spending money on a video or a seminar.

Some of the stuff I don't agree with. I tenkan around that and use it as fuel for something more creative.

Bottom line: If O'sensei were posting here would you be making the same argument, or would you be logging on here to seek his knowledge like a thirsty man seeks water (or beer :) )?

deepsoup
09-04-2002, 05:16 PM
Bottom line: If O'sensei were posting here would you be making the same argument, or would you be logging on here to seek his knowledge like a thirsty man seeks water (or beer :) )?
From what I've read about the great man, I'd mostly be scratching my head trying to work out what on earth he's talking about, and I'd usually go away completely baffled! :D

Sean

x

PeterR
09-05-2002, 12:41 AM
Bottom line: If O'sensei were posting here would you be making the same argument, or would you be logging on here to seek his knowledge like a thirsty man seeks water (or beer :) )?
Well he's not and that's actually quite germain to my point. If he were on here would there be a large number of people telling him what Aiki really was.

You are right this is a great resource. There are people who have spent a lot of time on the mat (notice how they seem to be chased into their own little forum), some who can read the words of the founder in their original and have enough understanding of the culture not to go off half cocked, there are others who bring their experience from outside (Dave and Kevin are a real pleasure to read at the moment) and try to apply it to their Aikido. All this is good and why I keep coming back.

Yet at the time I shot my mouth off (its quieted down since them) there were all sorts of attempts to hijack Aikido to justify political and personal views.

My own view is very simple.

Aikido is not all inclusive. It may flex but you can not bend and mold it into something it is not. Please tell us what Aikido means to you and how it affects your life. That is sharing the journey. Telling me which branch to take is not.

mike lee
09-05-2002, 03:59 AM
... there were all sorts of attempts to hijack Aikido to justify political and personal views.

I think it was a conspiracy. In fact, I'm sure it was.

I'd like to see someone express their "non-personal" views!

PeterR
09-05-2002, 04:16 AM
Hi Mike;

Now don't mis-quote - I said justify. Everything I express here is a personal view.

No thought of conspiricy either - I just view the michi as essentially insular.

aikigreg
09-05-2002, 11:41 AM
Yet at the time I shot my mouth off (its quieted down since them) there were all sorts of attempts to hijack Aikido to justify political and personal views.

My own view is very simple.

Aikido is not all inclusive. It may flex but you can not bend and mold it into something it is not. Please tell us what Aikido means to you and how it affects your life. That is sharing the journey. Telling me which branch to take is not.
I just wanted to make clear I wasn't singling you out or anything, I'm simply pointing out that Aikiweb is a great resource and should be used as a tool to increase your knowledge. Some of it is less useful than others. By the way, I agree completely with your second paragraph.

As to what Aikido means to me: Everything. How it effects my life: In every way I let it.

Peace out, homie.

PhilJ
09-09-2002, 12:50 AM
As a self-recognized chronic blabbermouth, this is a good place for me to babble. :)

My sensei once told me something his buddhist neighbor said, "Words are but farts from the lips." It's easy for ANYONE to parrot out words and phrases we've heard (like that), and we sometimes remember them (for better or worse) simply because they sound cool or have affected us more deeply. If you can paraphrase in your own words what you've read, or demonstrate those words in action, you may have an actual understanding of those words.

That said, I've always mentioned to students that one of the mose interesting facets of aikido is that it is always changing. Not implicitly for good or bad, mind you, but it's always in a state of flux. The basic properties of the universe don't change; the only other reason aikido changes (that I can think of) is because of the people. This seems natural. EVERYONE here has their own spin on aikido, and that is just peachy.

We are our own best crap detector. PeterR, you have the benefit of aikido training, and that helps you understand what is "truth" and what isn't -- I use my training to discover the meanings of these words. This is like that old classic, "Is the glass half-empty or half-full?" Someone from either side can come in, answer, and sound like a genius. ANYONE can do that.

But what's the truth of the matter? Should aikido care about perception? If aikido is based on the universe and its interactions, what kind of subjectivity could the universe have on, say, a banana? Is it ripe? Is it tasty? Will that big gorilla over there eat it because of how green it is? Do the rings of Saturn care? How about the hydrogen atoms in the Sun?

And now you know why I'm a confessed lip-farter :) Isn't this fun folks?? I need to shut up and train too sometimes. :)

Kevin Leavitt
09-09-2002, 12:46 PM
I wonder in the "old days" in Japan, after training in the dojo, if students sat around and sipped tea and discussed the same type of issues we discuss here today?

I think it is great that we have this medium.

In my dojo, everyone's lives are too busy and complicated nowadays to do this, we go to class practice Aikido and go home.

I find this same change in the military as well. It used to be that soldiers would work hard during the duty day, then go to the NCO or Officer's club for beer and what not, and disscuss this kind of stuff. Today, soldiers go home to be with their families and what not.

While I think it is good we are so active and busy, sometimes I think there is a loss to really sitting down and talking with people in our busy society.

I think forums like this are a good way to get back to this.

PeterR
09-09-2002, 07:35 PM
I wonder in the "old days" in Japan, after training in the dojo, if students sat around and sipped tea and discussed the same type of issues we discuss here today?
My point Kevin is that in the "new days" they don't either. What they discuss is techniques, injuries, what a good/bad class, how so and so has an attitude problem and did you see the new waitress.
I think it is great that we have this medium.
I agree - but all in context. I have yet to understand Aiki much less apply it to political thought. Discuss politics sure - but when you start talking about "Aiki truths" - the Misuse of Aikido II thread is going strong I see - exactly what I'm talking about.

Suru
09-09-2002, 07:45 PM
Once in a while, my sensei speak of the philosophies of aikido. Often the techniques themselves can inspire philosophical revelations. Most of where I gather the philosophies of aikido, however, is from books on the subject.

Drew

mike lee
09-10-2002, 03:50 AM
... how so and so has an attitude problem ...

I wonder who that could be?
I agree - but all in context.

And who shall become the high judge of context?

Brian H
09-10-2002, 06:19 AM
Once in a while, my sensei speak of the philosophies of aikido. Often the techniques themselves can inspire philosophical revelations. Most of where I gather the philosophies of aikido, however, is from books on the subject.

Drew
And we are publishing little "books" every time we post.

Kevin Leavitt
09-10-2002, 07:31 PM
I'm with you Peter.

I have said it many times, you can apply aiki principles to change yourself and your perspective, which can influence how you respond or react to the world (even vote in politics)...but to try and apply the concepts on a "macro" basis to politics does not work.

For example, Trying to discuss if it is "aiki" or not to attack Iraq is pointless to me.

What is not pointless though is discussing ways we can improve ourselves and set the example for others to follow so we can somehow change the world one person at a time, even if it is idealisitc.

Is this not an "aiki" ideal or philosophy?

PeterR
09-10-2002, 08:37 PM
Hi Kevin;

I guess I'm sounding more extreme then I intend but it is really as simple as a reductionist view versus an expansionist.

Based on my exposure here and perhaps (probably) my personal inclination I tend to be reductionist. What prompted the original post was noticing that the most blatent expansionist views of what Aiki is tend to come from outside Japan.
I have said it many times, you can apply aiki principles to change yourself and your perspective, which can influence how you respond or react to the world (even vote in politics)...but to try and apply the concepts on a "macro" basis to politics does not work.

For example, Trying to discuss if it is "aiki" or not to attack Iraq is pointless to me.
As I said earlier I still have trouble understanding aiki principles in a physical sense much less philosophical. Still I find myself agreeing with you so perhaps we have a common incling.
What is not pointless though is discussing ways we can improve ourselves and set the example for others to follow so we can somehow change the world one person at a time, even if it is idealisitc.

Is this not an "aiki" ideal or philosophy?
Well my view of things has changed since I've started Aikido but is that the "Aiki" or me becoming older and wiser (leave it alone). Please understand that my Aikido is not all about blending and harmonizing (in the Western sense) either so again the problem of the physical/philosophical meaning of Aiki.

I love discussing philosophy and really have no problem with it being discussed here (I've said this many times but still some suggest I am trying to shut it down or moderate it) but I do have a problem with pronouncements of the "Aiki way". My burden I suppose - still - well my opinion is clear.

PeterR
09-10-2002, 09:48 PM
Peter Goldsbury has just posted a very interesting and I think relevant (to this thread) post on the Aikido Journal bulletin board. Actually the whole thread is pretty good.

http://65.119.177.201/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=17&t=000029&p=3