Katate-dori or Katate-tori

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[Rene]

Dear all,
I am practicing Aikido for many years in tendoryu style in Berlin. By googeling and reading books sometimes an attack is called katate dori, but in other books it is called katate tori; what is the difference and what is most likely more correct? Or does it depend on the specific style of Aikido? Thanks for any kind of explanations.
Rene

[Demetrio Cereijo]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rendaku

[rugwithlegs]

There are a few different styles of translation, and you'll see many other words used to. Compare it to looking up "grab" in an English thesaurus.

I am not aware of any significant difference between Dori and Tori, usually blamed this on non-Japanese speakers.

[Walter Martindale]

Demetrio got it...

When some words (in this case tori) follow some vowels, in Japanese, the consonant starting the second word changes. Probably for ease of speech.

If you were to go to, say, Aikikai Hombu and say "katatetori" people would probably understand and may politely correct you (or just say) "katatedori"..

"hashi" is a 'romanization' of the words for bridge or chopsticks. Meaning comes from context or slight changes in intonation - i.e., if a non-native speaker, in a restaurant in Tokyo, was to ask for "hashi" with the wrong pronunciation, the server would not likely go out and bring the customer a bridge as the context implies chopsticks. So what... "nihon-hashi" is pronounced "nihom-bashi".. Suido - hashi is pronounced "suido-bashi" - those are bridges in Tokyo...(Suidobashi is also a train station on... is it Chiba-sen? - no - Chuo-sen...)

When in Japan, listen and learn.

[robin_jet_alt]

A good example is 'a herb' vs 'an herb.' Which is correct? It all depends on whether you pronounce the 'H' or not...

[Rene]

Thanks for this explanations, is sounds difficult to make and understand a correct translation, without to be speak Japanese.
Rene

[nikyu62]

Don't sweat the small stuff.

[Carl Thompson]

Just to clarify what I think was established right at the start of the thread: "katatedori" is correct.

A good example is 'a herb' vs 'an herb.' Which is correct? It all depends on whether you pronounce the 'H' or not...

In this example, either 'a' or 'an' is correct, but the rule for 'an' before a vowel is a nice comparison. Basically, it's not as easy to say "a 'erb" or "a apple." In the same way, see which rolls off the tongue the easiest: katatetori or katatedori. Same goes for happokiri or happogiri etc.

Carl

[Peter Goldsbury]

Just to clarify what I think was established right at the start of the thread: "katatedori" is correct.

In this example, either 'a' or 'an' is correct, but the rule for 'an' before a vowel is a nice comparison. Basically, it's not as easy to say "a 'erb" or "a apple." In the same way, see which rolls off the tongue the easiest: katatetori or katatedori. Same goes for happokiri or happogiri etc.

Carl

Hello Carl,

How about kotodama vs. kototama?

PAG

[Carl Thompson]

Hello Carl,

How about kotodama vs. kototama?

PAG

Hello professor,

I remember reading somewhere (probably John Stevens) that Osensei pronounced it kototama. Since I'm in Ibaraki (or Ibaragi), with it's interesting dialect, I'm careful of unusual expressions. Do you know how the founder would have said kotodama?

Carl

[Peter Goldsbury]

Hello professor,

I remember reading somewhere (probably John Stevens) that Osensei pronounced it kototama. Since I'm in Ibaraki (or Ibaragi), with it's interesting dialect, I'm careful of unusual expressions. Do you know how the founder would have said kotodama?

Carl

Hello Carl,

No, I don't. I think you would need to ask someone who knew him well, like Inagaki Shihan. In the Takemusu Aiki text, the furigana is kotodama, not kototama.

Best wishes,

PAG

[Carl Thompson]

Hello Carl,

No, I don't. I think you would need to ask someone who knew him well, like Inagaki Shihan. In the Takemusu Aiki text, the furigana is kotodama, not kototama.

Best wishes,

PAG

Good evening Professor,

Both Sensei and myself usually have to rush for work after the bukiwaza class on weekdays, but I managed to quickly ask him this morning. He is the first native speaker I have asked who has not just stated categorically that it is 'kododama'. I'm afraid I'm still processing his answer and he may have more to say about it, so I'll have to get back to you later.

Regards

Carl