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jaxonbrown
08-22-2002, 09:04 AM
Warm-up usually makes people break a sweat. When we are doing technique like a simple kotegaesh(sp?) sometimes my grip comes loose because uke's wrist is so sweaty. Once I lose my grip the technique fails. I'm wondering how to stop this from happening.

Genex
08-22-2002, 09:31 AM
Grip tighter or when it fails atemi to the face to put them off and recover with irimi nage or sommat, i get this alot but by moving into another technique your sensei will be impressed. Ok not at the kotegaishi but at the recovery because your thinking on your feet so to speak.

you could always ask Uke to rub down with a cloth on the wrists you could do the same to your hands, take a small flannel (white if ya got it) and that should help.

pete

Conrad
08-22-2002, 09:50 AM
I will agree with pete about the wrist rub down, that might help for the purpose of practicing a particular technique. However, being one of the "sweaty" guys, I find that people usually make adjustment to there technique as needed. For example, in the case of kotegaishi, you may want to lead a little more(taking the center), and rely on the grip a little less. If that dosen't make since to you now, it will later. ;)

:triangle:

Jason

jaxonbrown
08-22-2002, 10:07 AM
well, i thought about gripping harder but does that spoil the technique? my teacher said the harder you grip the longer it takes for you to let go which could cost you seconds if using this for real.

Kevin Wilbanks
08-22-2002, 12:57 PM
My favorite kotegashi save is to grab the forearm with both hands and work the technique from the elbow/shoulder. If you're lucky both hands will be grabbing gi. Be careful though... quite a lot of torque develops.

I also agree that when all grip fails, go for their head, or a tackle or their legs. I think eventually it should come naturally, as you should be paying attention to the whole nage, not primarily monkeying with the appendages. Once the appendage manipulation fails, you go straight for their center.

Abasan
08-23-2002, 11:36 PM
Don't grip harder for better grip. IMHO that doesn't work.

If you're gripping like that, sounds like you'll be pulling his hand somewhere...

Your grip should be stressed with your little finger, and with weight underside to continue the momentum, not pulling the hand.

ermm... downwards not forwards. forward will take care of itself with uke's help.

davoravo
08-24-2002, 04:52 AM
I think you are trying too hard. First slow down your training, second instead of grabbing uke's wrist take it gently. Let your hand rest in position before you grip. That way your hand doesn't have nay horizontal movement and won't go shooting off the end.

If you still fail consistently with one partner then turn the technique into a elbow turn - Grab the sleeve instead of the wrist, use a very high circle and with your other hand cut down into the crook of the elbow. Also a great second technique if Ikkyo fails.

erikmenzel
08-24-2002, 06:13 AM
As far as I know, losing contact due to sweaty hands indicates also that one is trying to rearrange or force ones partner.

Instead of focussing on the sweat (which in my opinion is not often the actual problem) one could focus on the actual details of the technique (especially the not rearranging part).

Veers
08-24-2002, 08:50 AM
Is it acceptable to wrap your wrists as long as there're no pins or anything sharp like that?

Kevin Wilbanks
08-24-2002, 11:10 AM
If your wrists are wrapped, expect a lot of questions about whether they are injured.

Bruce Baker
08-24-2002, 01:16 PM
I see this a lot in the early stages of training ... thinking that a good grab a hold is the way to good technique.

You should be able to do a kote gaieshi (excuse my spelling) with open hands by using the blade of the hand with an open palm.

That is correct, doing it with out grabbing with the fingers.

There is a certain amount of finess to using cupped grabs, or trapping hands, or even doing kotegaieshi with the trap of one hand, and the back of the other hand, but the practice is worth it ... especially with sweaty hands.

Imagine you have lost the feeling in your hands, unable to grasp ... could you still to your throws, restaints, and most of your Aikido techniques?

Sure! But you will have to think that your hands are useless lumps stuck in one position to use two way motion to make the effect of hands moving to restain or guide.

Experiment with mittons, or by leaving your hands in the half cupped position, as if they were frozen ...

It will loosen your death grip in practice, and awaken you to using the other attributes of your body to complete techniques with grabbing.

So, if sweaty hands/wrists come up, you won't be so dependent upon fingers .. you will have broader roadblock than a few fingers stopping an 18 wheeler.

Don't worry about sweat, some of this practice, and most maneuvering is no sweat.

giriasis
08-24-2002, 01:30 PM
I sweat quite a bit as well, and when I see someone lose grip it's just that they are not staying connected with me. That happened this morning in class. We were doing kotegaeshi from a punch and he tenkaned too fast -- jerking me around, using force, not his center -- and then would lose grip.

Yeah, we can switch techniques, but I really see this as an opportunity to keep control over sweaty attacks. So if Sensei is showing kotegaeshi, I usually try to figure out what I'm doing wrong rather than what my partner is doing. It's my responsibility to learn to control uke.

Bruce Baker
08-30-2002, 10:31 AM
There is another technique of cupping the fingers together as one which does not use the thumb as an opposing unit, but as part of the other four fingers.

It is not often used in early stages of training, or by many Aikido teachers, but it is another method of restraint, guiding, and very effective.

Either that, or improve your hand strength until you can make a letter "C" with vise like precision that is tight enough to not slip past the hand, but doesn't cut off the circulation. That would be the "gorilla arm" technique.