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TCSSEC
07-15-2014, 10:40 AM
"Sensei, what would you do if someone attacked you in the street?"

I was taken aback momentarily as I was quite enjoying my chicken teriyaki. So, how to answer this question coming from this young aikidoka?

In a flash and moment of nostalgia, I recalled when I was first introduced to martial arts around the age of 12, it was instilled in me that I should not tell people that I was training in the arts. This was partly strategic as the element of surprise in an altercation would be an advantage and there was always someone who would want to test your skills.

I was also reminded of a TV series that I watched in the early 1970's (yes -- I'm old) about a young Shaolin monk who was taught that when faced with aggression, it was better to walk away but if necessary, it was better to "Hurt rather than maim. Maim rather than kill. Kill rather than be killed." Something like that

Fast forward to today when cowards' one-punch or knockout games are often reported in the media, and back to the young aikidoka's question

Well recently I was in a small regional town having a cup of coffee, just hanging around, enjoying the ambiance and watching the passing parade of locals when there was quite a commotion coming towards me.

There was a mass of people running away from a machete welding young man -- all coming my way! As the young man approached, he sliced a few trees and destroyed a metal garbage bin. (Later the locals told me that he was a little high on meth ice -- apparently a rare event in town thankfully, else the tourist trade would be disrupted.)

If you've ever watched a wildlife documentary when a herd of gazelles is suddenly chased by a lion, the potential preys all turned and bolted away from the predator at the same time. That's what it was like.

But at that moment as the drug affected young man approached me, I had visions of applying a kotegashi on him or some other appropriate technique and saving the local community.

As I related my recent experience to the young aikidoka, he seemed very keen to hear how I'd dealt with the young man and his machete.

"So what did you do Sensei?"

"I ran."

"I ran very fast"

"I think I was at the front of the pack running. Or very close to the front. Yes -- my aikido came in very handy!"

The young aikidoka may have been a little disappointed by my answer which didn't have much of a WOW factor. But I was quite comfortable with my response.

BTW -- no person got hurt by the machete welding young man and the trees recovered. And my response to the young man would have been very different had he threatened those I love.

Mary Eastland
07-16-2014, 06:43 AM
Bravo!

Marie Noelle Fequiere
07-16-2014, 10:47 AM
I love your story, Sensei. I'm so tired of young people asking me what I'd do if I was attacked. That would be the same as you did, but your narration is priceless, so I am asking permission to share this. :)

Janet Rosen
07-16-2014, 10:53 AM
:-)

reza.n
07-16-2014, 11:17 AM
I'm one of those men who won't use a one million dollar missile to neutralize a target with a baseball bat.
I made it clear ;)
I finish the fight with a single super fast sucker punch and save my expensive and precious holy missiles and artillery for another day!
well not so professional answer!

Marie Noelle Fequiere
07-16-2014, 11:33 AM
The golden rule in Aikido is: Get Out Of The Line Of Attack! :D :D

Janet Rosen
07-16-2014, 11:51 AM
The golden rule in Aikido is: Get Out Of The Line Of Attack! :D :D

Gee, I thought it was "control the line of attack"....but I still applaud the OP's decision to flee in this case :-)

JP3
07-16-2014, 06:07 PM
Quite a few of the aikido people I know would respond with something to the effect of: "Does he stop attacking when I draw my Sig from the concealed-carry holster?" (Or Baretta, or Smith & Wesson, or whatever).

I, however, don't like guns, so I guess I'm out of luck. I've got to get out of the guy's way and maybe stick out a foot or something like that.

Marie Noelle Fequiere
07-17-2014, 09:36 AM
Gee, I thought it was "control the line of attack"....but I still applaud the OP's decision to flee in this case :-)

This can be re-phrased as: Get Out Of The Trajectory Of The Attack.
If you meet the attack head on, the strongest will win. Of course, another golden rule is to stay with the attacker, but sometimes, you can negotiate that one. :D

Steven
07-17-2014, 10:21 AM
Hi Tom,

Well said and done! Now when are you and your bride coming back for a visit?

-- Steven

"Sensei, what would you do if someone attacked you in the street?"

I was taken aback momentarily as I was quite enjoying my chicken teriyaki. So, how to answer this question coming from this young aikidoka?

In a flash and moment of nostalgia, I recalled when I was first introduced to martial arts around the age of 12, it was instilled in me that I should not tell people that I was training in the arts. This was partly strategic as the element of surprise in an altercation would be an advantage and there was always someone who would want to test your skills.

I was also reminded of a TV series that I watched in the early 1970's (yes -- I'm old) about a young Shaolin monk who was taught that when faced with aggression, it was better to walk away but if necessary, it was better to "Hurt rather than maim. Maim rather than kill. Kill rather than be killed." Something like that

Fast forward to today when cowards' one-punch or knockout games are often reported in the media, and back to the young aikidoka's question

Well recently I was in a small regional town having a cup of coffee, just hanging around, enjoying the ambiance and watching the passing parade of locals when there was quite a commotion coming towards me.

There was a mass of people running away from a machete welding young man -- all coming my way! As the young man approached, he sliced a few trees and destroyed a metal garbage bin. (Later the locals told me that he was a little high on meth ice -- apparently a rare event in town thankfully, else the tourist trade would be disrupted.)

If you've ever watched a wildlife documentary when a herd of gazelles is suddenly chased by a lion, the potential preys all turned and bolted away from the predator at the same time. That's what it was like.

But at that moment as the drug affected young man approached me, I had visions of applying a kotegashi on him or some other appropriate technique and saving the local community.

As I related my recent experience to the young aikidoka, he seemed very keen to hear how I'd dealt with the young man and his machete.

"So what did you do Sensei?"

"I ran."

"I ran very fast"

"I think I was at the front of the pack running. Or very close to the front. Yes -- my aikido came in very handy!"

The young aikidoka may have been a little disappointed by my answer which didn't have much of a WOW factor. But I was quite comfortable with my response.

BTW -- no person got hurt by the machete welding young man and the trees recovered. And my response to the young man would have been very different had he threatened those I love.

Anjisan
07-18-2014, 10:31 AM
"Sensei, what would you do if someone attacked you in the street?"

I was taken aback momentarily as I was quite enjoying my chicken teriyaki. So, how to answer this question coming from this young aikidoka?

In a flash and moment of nostalgia, I recalled when I was first introduced to martial arts around the age of 12, it was instilled in me that I should not tell people that I was training in the arts. This was partly strategic as the element of surprise in an altercation would be an advantage and there was always someone who would want to test your skills.

I was also reminded of a TV series that I watched in the early 1970's (yes -- I'm old) about a young Shaolin monk who was taught that when faced with aggression, it was better to walk away but if necessary, it was better to "Hurt rather than maim. Maim rather than kill. Kill rather than be killed." Something like that

Fast forward to today when cowards' one-punch or knockout games are often reported in the media, and back to the young aikidoka's question

Well recently I was in a small regional town having a cup of coffee, just hanging around, enjoying the ambiance and watching the passing parade of locals when there was quite a commotion coming towards me.

There was a mass of people running away from a machete welding young man -- all coming my way! As the young man approached, he sliced a few trees and destroyed a metal garbage bin. (Later the locals told me that he was a little high on meth ice -- apparently a rare event in town thankfully, else the tourist trade would be disrupted.)

If you've ever watched a wildlife documentary when a herd of gazelles is suddenly chased by a lion, the potential preys all turned and bolted away from the predator at the same time. That's what it was like.

But at that moment as the drug affected young man approached me, I had visions of applying a kotegashi on him or some other appropriate technique and saving the local community.

As I related my recent experience to the young aikidoka, he seemed very keen to hear how I'd dealt with the young man and his machete.

"So what did you do Sensei?"

"I ran."

"I ran very fast"

"I think I was at the front of the pack running. Or very close to the front. Yes -- my aikido came in very handy!"

The young aikidoka may have been a little disappointed by my answer which didn't have much of a WOW factor. But I was quite comfortable with my response.

BTW -- no person got hurt by the machete welding young man and the trees recovered. And my response to the young man would have been very different had he threatened those I love.

I am so glad that you mentioned that your response would be different if your love ones were involved. Often I read how someone would just run away. However, one may not always have that luxury and then what? I think of this especially when innocents are involved and one cannot just say run out of the house and leave grandma or the kids behind.

reza.n
07-18-2014, 11:23 AM
Of course there are body language and linguistic skills and techniques which can improve your charisma or make your opponent calm and empty and I found some psychic techniques that drive unreal fear into the opponent's heart! ;)
with all these I avoid 99.9% of really possible fights in my past few years.

TCSSEC
07-18-2014, 08:47 PM
I love your story, Sensei. I'm so tired of young people asking me what I'd do if I was attacked. That would be the same as you did, but your narration is priceless, so I am asking permission to share this. :)

Please do. :-)

TCSSEC
07-18-2014, 09:09 PM
Hi Tom,

Well said and done! Now when are you and your bride coming back for a visit?

-- Steven

Osu Steven Sensei!

Next year will be our 30th, so we hope to replicate the honeymoon trail from CA to Canada. Still looking into the details but hoping for 2015!

Also next year will be a busy year: AYNSW will celebrate its 10th in Sydney, and there will be a big birthday party in Tokyo for one of our Sensei with details to come I understand. Must catch up with you some time/where.

;-)

Osu!

Tom

TCSSEC
07-18-2014, 09:16 PM
I am so glad that you mentioned that your response would be different if your love ones were involved. Often I read how someone would just run away. However, one may not always have that luxury and then what? I think of this especially when innocents are involved and one cannot just say run out of the house and leave grandma or the kids behind.

Agree ... I think one has to think of the worst case scenario, decide ahead what you may have to do, and take it as it comes hoping you never have to deal with the worst case. As much as we like to avoid conflict, sometimes it comes to you and there may be no choice. Cheers!

Marie Noelle Fequiere
07-19-2014, 08:43 AM
Please do. :-)

Thank you, Sensei.

dps
07-21-2014, 09:51 AM
Bleed.

dps

dps
07-21-2014, 09:56 AM
Seriously, avoidance is the first line of defense. You should always consider; where are you, who are you with, what are you doing, why are you there.

dps

Edgecrusher
08-02-2014, 07:48 AM
Agreed, knowing your surroundings and what you are up against will be helpful and if possible, talking yourself out of the issue is always a must. However there are situations where diplomacy fails and you have to resort to violence. In that case, adrenaline and survival come into play and technique go out the window. If you have been training for a while ( more than 3 years ) you will be able to react. It is extremely difficult to say "if I were attacked in the street, I am going to do Aigamae ate or kote hineri. Instinct will always come into play. Be prepared to take a punch you may immobilize the attackers but, not unscathed.

lbb
08-04-2014, 06:21 AM
Agreed, knowing your surroundings and what you are up against will be helpful and if possible, talking yourself out of the issue is always a must. However there are situations where diplomacy fails and you have to resort to violence. In that case, adrenaline and survival come into play and technique go out the window. If you have been training for a while ( more than 3 years ) you will be able to react. It is extremely difficult to say "if I were attacked in the street, I am going to do Aigamae ate or kote hineri. Instinct will always come into play. Be prepared to take a punch you may immobilize the attackers but, not unscathed.

Emphasis mine. If "technique go out the window", what is the point of even learning techniques?

The answer, of course, is that technique doesn't go out the window, unless you redefine technique to mean "a process beginning with a conscious mental deliberation by which I decide to use a particular technique and then set myself up and do it".

SteliosPapadakis
08-04-2014, 06:23 AM
Any fellow aikidoist that had to fight (even in a friendly, controlled manner) a real boxer (friend or other in sparring mode)?
A real nutshell-closed boxer who would attack as fast as he would parry and avoid everything? Someone who would have a low weight centre but would be able to move freely around?
Not all street attackers (or your average street mugger) are like that but you never know, do you?
Best option is not to be there in the first place. Running away comes second, and mr 9mm third :D

Edgecrusher
08-04-2014, 10:39 AM
So we are saying a beginner student with no prior experience is attacked in the street, they would be able to subdue the attacker 100% effectively? I think I may have been misinterpreted and it really does not matter at this point, so who cares? Bottom line a beginner might not make it with "TECHNIQUE", whereas a student with many years behind them may be way more successful utilizing what they have been learning with greater confidence and muscle memory reaction.

kewms
08-04-2014, 11:25 AM
Bottom line a beginner might not make it with "TECHNIQUE", whereas a student with many years behind them may be way more successful utilizing what they have been learning with greater confidence and muscle memory reaction.

Put that way, it seems staggeringly obvious, doesn't it? If a more experienced student *doesn't* have more confidence and better muscle memory, then what's their experience worth?

On the other hand, the more experienced student, like the OP in this thread, might also be able to figure out that confronting a drug-addled maniac with a machete is just dumb.

Katherine

Chris Raihl
08-04-2014, 03:25 PM
Sadly a similar situation happened in San Francisco when someone attacked people with a baseball bat in a line waiting to get into a movie. Many people did get hurt in that situation and everyone did run and to the best of my knowledge that individual was never caught. I am not sure this would have been the right answer in that situation and I am not young enough to say definitely what I would do in that situation had I been there.

The closest thing to that situation I have ever encountered was a drunk who ran his car into the center divide and I pulled over and removed the keys from the ignition so he would not drive away and I would not hand them back until the police arrived.

Mario Tobias
08-06-2014, 04:31 PM
I saw a youtube video of a man hacking another with a machete in an internet shop. It was traumatizing just watching the video. I thought about this for awhile and probably the best course of action if I were involved was either

1. Grab a weapon, any weapon, any thing that you can throw at or ward off the attacker. In the internet shop, it would be a chair or a computer. You shouldn't care if you trash the place.

2. You friggin' run.

Don't have the grand delusion your martial art will save you since you probably will forget everything in the heat of the moment.

Cheers,

Rupert Atkinson
08-07-2014, 02:46 AM
On the other hand, the more experienced student, like the OP in this thread, might also be able to figure out that confronting a drug-addled maniac with a machete is just dumb.
Katherine

So, you run away, and then he kills your kid, or some other kid, that happens to walk on by a few mins later. Great strategy.

PeterR
08-07-2014, 03:34 AM
So, you run away, and then he kills your kid, or some other kid, that happens to walk on by a few mins later. Great strategy.

Now Rupert that's a bit of a stretch in interpretation.

Self defense is all about creating ma-ai. I use the term rather than just distance because so much more comes into play. Which weapons are being employed, perceived threat and capability, and the need to engage. You are taking these things into account by not being in the situation in the first place, removing yourself from the problem, helping others to do the same. Distancing yourself allows the use of the piece of magic called the cell-phone.

GMaroda
08-07-2014, 03:46 AM
So, you run away, and then he kills your kid, or some other kid, that happens to walk on by a few mins later. Great strategy.

One is not required to stand their ground lest a violent predator assault someone else. If you feel you must and live in the civilized world, you should probably become a legal law enforcement officer of some sort. When they face drug-addled machete weilding assailants, they usually have the advantages of both lethal and less-than-lethal weaponry (which may or may not be available to civilians, depending on your local laws) and the amazing force multiplier known as "backup".

Note, I am not saying one should never stand one's ground. The decision to do so will depend on a number of factors that will would be foolish attempt to lay out in an internet discussion. And generally, the answer to "was that the right decision?" is only known in hindsight.

Mary Eastland
08-07-2014, 06:28 AM
So, you run away, and then he kills your kid, or some other kid, that happens to walk on by a few mins later. Great strategy.

Few mothers would run away leaving their child.

Greg Jennings
08-07-2014, 07:19 AM
The first and most important rule is to keep you wits about you. Good for aikido. Good for life.

lbb
08-07-2014, 10:31 AM
I'm always disappointed at how many people feel the need to call each other out, question each other's intentions and abilities, and generally pick a fight about hypothetical responses to a hypothetical situation. Let it go, people.

dps
08-07-2014, 02:59 PM
How do you stop a mad man with a machete? The same way you stop a mad man with a gun, with a gun.

dps

kewms
08-07-2014, 03:36 PM
How do you stop a mad man with a machete? The same way you stop a mad man with a gun, with a gun.

dps

Law enforcement officers involved in shootouts do not have an impressively high accuracy record. I wouldn't expect civilians to do any better.

Katherine

dps
08-07-2014, 10:16 PM
Law enforcement officers involved in shootouts do not have an impressively high accuracy record. I wouldn't expect civilians to do any better.

Katherine

Then why do enforcements officers carry guns?

0% accuracy without a gun, 20% to 40% accuracy with a gun. I'll take my chances with a gun.

dps

kewms
08-07-2014, 10:58 PM
Then why do enforcements officers carry guns?

0% accuracy without a gun, 20% to 40% accuracy with a gun. I'll take my chances with a gun.

dps

I'm sure the innocent bystanders in your line of fire find that comforting.

Katherine

dps
08-07-2014, 11:06 PM
I'm sure the innocent bystanders in your line of fire find that comforting.

Katherine

If it stops the guy with the machete from hacking them up, yes.

dps

Sojourner
08-25-2014, 10:03 PM
Whilst I understand and support the idea that running is a great strategy, it is not always practicible in reality. The question is what would you do if you were attacked? One would suggest that the scenario might thus be that you have already been hit or assualted and how might you thus respond?

Personally I would respond with a mixture of Krav Maga - most likely done wildly and badly (biting, eye gouging, atemi striking) and ideally if I had the capacity I would attempt to use an Aikido pin to end the conflict and hold the person unitil the police arrived. Whilst people may not like the use of Krav, the point of Krav is that there is no such thing as a fair fight and if you are being attacked, you use whatever tools you have at your disposal to neutralize your attacker.

The Dalai Lama was once asked about how someone might defend themselves against an attacker with a gun and his Holiness stated openly that it is a reasonable use of self defence to use your own gun to shoot someone else that has a gun and is trying to shoot you.

I have no doubt that the founder of Aikido could very easilly disarm a meth addict with a machete or firearm with Aikido. I know that I can not and I would be unlikely to try as a result.

Rupert Atkinson
09-23-2014, 07:21 PM
Now Rupert that's a bit of a stretch in interpretation.

Self defense is all about creating ma-ai. I use the term rather than just distance because so much more comes into play. Which weapons are being employed, perceived threat and capability, and the need to engage. You are taking these things into account by not being in the situation in the first place, removing yourself from the problem, helping others to do the same. Distancing yourself allows the use of the piece of magic called the cell-phone.

Sorry, but a friend once helped me when someone came at me with a knife. I would not run away. I will do something. pick up something - whatever. Would goad him towards me and away from others. I am not afraid of getting hurt. Maybe my training would work, maybe not. but I have not spent more than half a life training martial arts to run away. That is pathetic. In fact, I have come across 'situations' a few times - I linger near. Watch. Help if I can. Keep my distance as necessary. Guy with bottle - take it from him - done that. Guy with large rock - take it from him. Done that. Two scrapping on floor - drag top one off by the scruff of the neck - done that. It is not really so hard as they are usually 'not quite with it' and don't really mean it anyway.

sakumeikan
09-24-2014, 12:18 PM
Sorry, but a friend once helped me when someone came at me with a knife. I would not run away. I will do something. pick up something - whatever. Would goad him towards me and away from others. I am not afraid of getting hurt. Maybe my training would work, maybe not. but I have not spent more than half a life training martial arts to run away. That is pathetic. In fact, I have come across 'situations' a few times - I linger near. Watch. Help if I can. Keep my distance as necessary. Guy with bottle - take it from him - done that. Guy with large rock - take it from him. Done that. Two scrapping on floor - drag top one off by the scruff of the neck - done that. It is not really so hard as they are usually 'not quite with it' and don't really mean it anyway.

Dear Rupert,
Nice to find a gung ho guy on the forum. Nice to know your not scared of being hurt. Then again Rupert define hurt. Do you mean a clip on the chin ,a kick in the crown jewels or an axe through the brainbox? Me, I could accept the chin job, I might welcome the second option, but I am not too sure about the axe.Some might say I could accept this in spades.I have my doubts.
In a word in any conflict situation use your common sense folks. Leave the skirmishing to our action hero Mr Seagal .Only if I was forced to respond would I start the old Marquess of Queensbury stuff. Cheers, Joe.

sakumeikan
09-24-2014, 12:25 PM
Sorry, but a friend once helped me when someone came at me with a knife. I would not run away. I will do something. pick up something - whatever. Would goad him towards me and away from others. I am not afraid of getting hurt. Maybe my training would work, maybe not. but I have not spent more than half a life training martial arts to run away. That is pathetic. In fact, I have come across 'situations' a few times - I linger near. Watch. Help if I can. Keep my distance as necessary. Guy with bottle - take it from him - done that. Guy with large rock - take it from him. Done that. Two scrapping on floor - drag top one off by the scruff of the neck - done that. It is not really so hard as they are usually 'not quite with it' and don't really mean it anyway.

Rupert,
I reckon Rupert you would find it nigh impossible to take a bottle [especially a full beer bottle ] from a 85 year old Glaswegian after a booze up Sat night in dear old Glasgow town.Cheers, Joe.

Keith Larman
09-24-2014, 12:39 PM
Ha! Years ago I tried to get a bottle away from an Irish friend who'd had, oh, a bottle or two of whiskey too many already and was preciously close to having a large group of very large fellas beating the daylights out of him. And he'd have deserved it quite frankly. Anyway, you'd think that bottle was fused to his freaking hands. I eventually got it away from him (including his car keys) with the help of some of the guys who were prior to that ready to beat him for being a complete ass. Odd how me trying to subdue him gently actually changed the dynamics rather quickly. Saved his idiot butt. Sadly, he didn't even remember the event the next day. And he passed out basically once I got the keys out of his hands...

Got him home, rolled him so that if/when he threw up he'd not choke to death, then pulled up a chair and waited it out until someone else could watch over the idiot...

So I can authoritatively say that disarming a bottle from at least one incredibly drunk Irish man I knew is bloody near impossible without assistance...

The rest of this thread. Nah, not going to go there. Carry on.

sakumeikan
09-24-2014, 04:04 PM
Ha! Years ago I tried to get a bottle away from an Irish friend who'd had, oh, a bottle or two of whiskey too many already and was preciously close to having a large group of very large fellas beating the daylights out of him. And he'd have deserved it quite frankly. Anyway, you'd think that bottle was fused to his freaking hands. I eventually got it away from him (including his car keys) with the help of some of the guys who were prior to that ready to beat him for being a complete ass. Odd how me trying to subdue him gently actually changed the dynamics rather quickly. Saved his idiot butt. Sadly, he didn't even remember the event the next day. And he passed out basically once I got the keys out of his hands...

Got him home, rolled him so that if/when he threw up he'd not choke to death, then pulled up a chair and waited it out until someone else could watch over the idiot...

So I can authoritatively say that disarming a bottle from at least one incredibly drunk Irish man I knew is bloody near impossible without assistance...

The rest of this thread. Nah, not going to go there. Carry on.
Dear Keith,
Perchance was this drunken gent an immigrant from Glasgow of Irish descent?Cheers, Joe

Keith Larman
09-24-2014, 04:39 PM
Nah, pure Irish through and through. No Scottish in him, best of my knowledge. Loved his single malt too...

Rupert Atkinson
09-25-2014, 12:45 AM
Rupert,
I reckon Rupert you would find it nigh impossible to take a bottle [especially a full beer bottle ] from a 85 year old Glaswegian after a booze up Sat night in dear old Glasgow town.Cheers, Joe.

Joe - I lived in Scotland for a year. They believe in equality up there; on a Fri/Sat/Sunday night, every man still outside after 10pm has a bottle in his hand. No closing time. They are all equal - so it would be a fair fight, and I would keep my distance - further than normal ! In fact. I'd probably be safe at home already. That is not a stereotype - it was ridiculously true.

I remember seeing blood on the sidewalk in the morning quite often, but usually 'cos they fell down drunk and bashed their own heads. I think the most common robbery at that time (1980s) was to rob those drunken idiots. Sometimes they would pass out in the cold/snow and just die - it wouldn't even make the papers. And if one of those louts ever leered towards you - some are drunk 24/7 - all you had to do was to quicken your pace, and if they tired to follow they'd just fall over. You kinda wonder if you should help pick them up. Nah - keep walking. I am not joking.

sakumeikan
09-27-2014, 04:25 PM
Nah, pure Irish through and through. No Scottish in him, best of my knowledge. Loved his single malt too...Dear Keith,
Dear Keith , Your Irish buddy has some Scotch in him now and again, namely the 100% Scotch Whisky.Cheers, Joe.

lifestylemanoz
10-07-2014, 02:42 AM
Funny how anyone who trains for any period of time ultimately never has these kinds of thoughts any more. I recently attended a seminar of Joe Thambu ( a great Aikidoka by the way) and at the end he ask if there were any questions. Of course the only questions came from beginner students, not to say that they weren't relevant questions but for those of us that have trained for a long time, the idea of having to fight or questioning whether you will be able to simply disappears along with the questions. I think we have banished the thoughts, given in and simply turn up to training.

If something ever did happen, one would hope an unconscious reflexive action would take place. however, the heightened sense of awareness that comes when you train will allow you to judge scenarios sooner, thereby avoiding the conflict in the first place (even the seemingly random ones).

TCSSEC
07-13-2015, 06:52 AM
Epilogue:

The young aikidoka – now 12 years old - who posed the question to me had his own epiphany …

Another student at his high school took exception to his whistling. Rather then asking our deshi to stop whistling, the other boy threw a punch at him.

Our deshi slipped the punch. And he slipped the second punch from the other boy.

Responding to the third punch, our deshi somehow got around the aggressor and applied a goose-neck control.

End of conflict … no one got injured. The aggressor has not bothered our deshi since.

Our deshi actually forgot to mention this episode to me but was prompted to do so by his father – no fuss, business as usual.

I am very proud of our young aikidoka.

JP3
07-13-2015, 07:53 PM
I am so glad that you mentioned that your response would be different if your love ones were involved. Often I read how someone would just run away. However, one may not always have that luxury and then what? I think of this especially when innocents are involved and one cannot just say run out of the house and leave grandma or the kids behind.

I would think that most practitioners with a decade or two of experience on this forum would probably take off the robes that are the mental switch of aikido and probably slide into a vest of whup-butt aikijutsu or another bujutsu form in case such aggressive counter-response where actually indicated. The thing is, usually it is not. Usually, Talking Does Work, people just don't have the patience to try, or to stick with it long enough.

Of course, there are situations, though rare, where talking does not even have an opportunity, like the predator-prey situation (e.g. mugging, rape assault, etc.). In which case.... Defend with aggression, I say, personally.

Mary Eastland
07-14-2015, 02:59 PM
I recently had an experience in my office with 2 large, young guys were acting very strange. One of them got aggressive with me. I only have one door in my office.

I stood up and walked past them and said, "follow me" and they did and then I said, "come on over here". They followed me over to the gate.

I pointed and said, "stand over there" and they did. I went through the gate, slammed it shut and got in my car and drove off.

I was very centered and still and knew exactly what to do. The guy that was aggressive has not been back in the office since and he calls to pay on time with his credit card. :)

Janet Rosen
07-15-2015, 08:11 AM
I recently had an experience in my office with 2 large, young guys were acting very strange. One of them got aggressive with me. I only have one door in my office.

I stood up and walked past them and said, "follow me" and they did and then I said, "come on over here". They followed me over to the gate.

I pointed and said, "stand over there" and they did. I went through the gate, slammed it shut and got in my car and drove off.

I was very centered and still and knew exactly what to do. The guy that was aggressive has not been back in the office since and he calls to pay on time with his credit card. :)

:-)

TCSSEC
09-08-2015, 01:55 AM
I recently had an experience in my office with 2 large, young guys were acting very strange. One of them got aggressive with me. I only have one door in my office.

I stood up and walked past them and said, "follow me" and they did and then I said, "come on over here". They followed me over to the gate.

I pointed and said, "stand over there" and they did. I went through the gate, slammed it shut and got in my car and drove off.

I was very centered and still and knew exactly what to do. The guy that was aggressive has not been back in the office since and he calls to pay on time with his credit card. :)

:-) ;-)

rugwithlegs
09-09-2015, 06:05 PM
I have enjoyed reading the thread and the answers (I was prepared to be irritated by the title, and nicely surprised).

I guess I still have newer students asking about what to do when someone attacks them in the dreaded phantom street, but how to communicate that violence between absolute strangers is relatively rare? not unheard of, and something to be prepared for, but date rape and spousal assault, work place violence, school yard fighting - people often know the people they are in a violent relationship with.

The last time I was asked this by a student, he was doing some hyperbolic babbling about some phantom menace on an empty street in our quiet small town while I was dealing with learning a friend was nearly killed by her husband of 8 years in her own home.

I just shrugged and changed the subject. I think we want our boogeymen to be strangers we wouldn't think twice about hurting.

kewms
09-09-2015, 10:55 PM
I just shrugged and changed the subject. I think we want our boogeymen to be strangers we wouldn't think twice about hurting.

Of course. Then it's like the movies: you kill the monster and live happily ever after.

Sadly, real life monsters are a lot more subtle and a lot harder to slay.

Katherine

lbb
09-10-2015, 06:45 AM
Of course. Then it's like the movies: you kill the monster and live happily ever after.

Sadly, real life monsters are a lot more subtle and a lot harder to slay.

And even if you win, it's at best a mixed blessing. Yes.

Pema Chodron talks a lot about the human tendency to create stories. It is a great gift in one way, this imagination of ours, and our drive to make things up -- I guess ultimately it's the source of creativity. It's also an enormous handicap if we don't recognize that what we've made up is a story. The more energy you invest in it, the more you need it to be real; the more real it is to you, the more energy you invest in it. What would you do if someone attacked you in the street? Why, star in your very own martial arts movie, that's what.

Cliff Judge
09-10-2015, 07:13 AM
Of course. Then it's like the movies: you kill the monster and live happily ever after.

Sadly, real life monsters are a lot more subtle and a lot harder to slay.

Katherine

I dunno...some movie monsters are pretty tough to kill. I was just rewatching the 80s classic "Krull" a couple of weeks ago, the Prince really had to jump through a lot of hoops to kill that one. He even stuck his hand in lava to obtain the ancient throwing weapon and it turned out to be useless!

Or that movie "Cloverfield" from a couple of years ago. That monster took a direct hit from a two-ton bomb and it just got more angry.

I'll take realizing that I am not as rich and attractive as I wish I was over that any day!