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Vvarg
05-06-2014, 11:05 PM
Last week a friend of mine had his house burglarised while he and his wife were sleeping in their bedroom and their 3 kids (1 baby) we're sleeping in theirs.

He told me that he woke up, thought he heard something, then went back to sleep. When they got out of bed in the morning a huge amount of their stuff was gone. For perspective they run a photography business on the bottom floor of their house, while they sleep on the top floor. The lower floor was gutted... Cameras, computers, gone. But here's the part that prompted this post...

The upper floor can only be accessed by a deadbolt on their back deck. And the burglars tried to get through the deadbolt to where they sleep. Thankfully the burglars were unsuccessful.

They live in an area where house invasion is very unusual. I do not. Break and enter in my suburb (opposite side of the country to my friends) is so common that people don't even raise an eyebrow when you say your house/car was broken into. And it got me to thinking...

I am a noob at Aikido (2 months). Say (worst case scenario) I woke up in the night and found some scumbag going through my stuff (single story house) what would be the single most important Aikido waza I could learn? Or I guess in general what would be the single most effective thing I could ask my instructor to teach me? I will be asking him next class btw.

Thanks for your input. This is a very real concern for me.

Vvarg
05-06-2014, 11:30 PM
I know the above is ambiguous. I would just like a suggestion of what the casual (I.e. Me) should really focus on should the fertiliser hit the ventilator.

OwlMatt
05-07-2014, 12:01 AM
Your aikido instructor probably isn't a home defense expert. He will teach you what techniques he thinks will help you best understand aikido at your level of development. That's his job, and that's what he's qualified for. In general, an aikido dojo probably isn't the best place to look for immediately useful home defense skills.

Keeping a phone and perhaps a weapon near your bed will likely be much more useful to you in a home invasion scenario than anything you'll ever learn in a martial arts club. If, however, you feel you really need hand-to-hand combat skills and you need them now, you need to find a club that will offer you the opportunity to train against alive, realistic resistance -- that probably means something other than aikido.

kewms
05-07-2014, 01:46 AM
Someone willing to invade your home when you are there is a seriously bad dude, and probably armed. There are very few viable empty hand strategies in a case like this, and none that you can learn in a matter of weeks or months. If this is the scenario you're worried about, you should be spending your time at the range, not the dojo.

Katherine

kewms
05-07-2014, 01:55 AM
He told me that he woke up, thought he heard something, then went back to sleep. When they got out of bed in the morning a huge amount of their stuff was gone. For perspective they run a photography business on the bottom floor of their house, while they sleep on the top floor. The lower floor was gutted... Cameras, computers, gone.

Wasn't their alarm working? And if they didn't invest in an alarm when they put a pile of expensive equipment under a sign (assuming the business has a sign) that says "Come take me!!", why not?

Which is not to criticize your friend, really, but to suggest that if you are in a high-risk situation (bad neighborhood, lots of expensive and portable equipment, etc.) there are plenty of passive security measures that you can take. Facing down an armed attacker in your bedroom should be an absolute last resort, not your first line of defense.

Katherine

Sojourner
05-07-2014, 05:45 AM
Hello Rhys, Sadly mate there is nothing that you can learn in Aikido in a quick space of time that will effectivley neautraize a home invasion. That is not to knock Aikido in any way but to state that its a five year commitment minimum to get to the level required for the Black Belt unlike other MA's.

In this case you have three options if you have no choice but to fight your attacker, - Shoot them, no longer a real option in Australia, Put a Samurai Sword through them with Iaido training, or hit them with Atemi Strikes that you learn in Krav Maga. If there are two of them you have no second option but to take out the first one with a kill strike.

You could well use an Aikido hold to pin them once you have them to the ground though and are waiting for the police to arrive, so one option may be to ask your instructor to demonstrate that hold to you.

Cliff Judge
05-07-2014, 08:04 AM
The willingness to grab anything that can be used as a weapon and move directly at the intruder with the intent to end his life, that's what is going to help out in that situation. This has been coming up in other threads - you cannot train for that, and anything you can train is useless unless you have this.

bkedelen
05-07-2014, 08:45 AM
Much of the above advice is stultifying, dangerous to your life safety and that of your family, and potentially illegal. The idea of going toe-to-toe with a home invader is a hollywood inspired fantasy. I can't even begin to list everything that is wrong with the above so I will just try to tell you something that may actually work. Here is an example real defensive tactics:

Prepare your home by putting decent locks on the bedroom doors, make sure there is some way to escape bedrooms that are above ground level (there are some nice stowable egress fire ladders on amazon), and keep your cell phone in the bedroom at night.

Train yourself and your family such that if your home is invaded, everyone knows to lock the bedroom door and if possible call 911. If they attempt to force the door, quietly escape out the window and run.

Vvarg
05-07-2014, 08:52 AM
Thanks for the above.

I am a little paranoid and do keep a bokken next to my bed, just in case. I also can strike fairly well coming from a background of Muay Thai and Wing Chun. Aikido is my first venture into a more throwing oriented art.

Coming back to this thread after a few hours sleep I realise that it's probably a stupid question. My home is very well secured (often referred to as the "safehouse" for when the zombies come) and there are far too many variables for a single ideal response.

Thanks again to those who replied.

Cliff Judge
05-07-2014, 09:47 AM
That's excellent advice, Ben. Having a plan is great. It is even better when something untoward happens, and the plan actually works.

I thought we were talking about what happens when the plan doesn't work, and what Aikido could provide for that scenario.

lbb
05-07-2014, 10:07 AM
That's excellent advice, Ben. Having a plan is great. It is even better when something untoward happens, and the plan actually works.

I thought we were talking about what happens when the plan doesn't work, and what Aikido could provide for that scenario.

That's unclear, at least to me. The original question was: "I am a noob at Aikido (2 months). Say (worst case scenario) I woke up in the night and found some scumbag going through my stuff (single story house) what would be the single most important Aikido waza I could learn?" There wasn't actually any mention of, "...assuming my deadbolt/alarm system/other elements of plan have failed". I'm no expert on home invasions, but the observation makes sense to me (i.e., that two months' aikido experience is not a good bet for dealing with a home invasion).

Cliff Judge
05-07-2014, 10:16 AM
That's unclear, at least to me. The original question was: "I am a noob at Aikido (2 months). Say (worst case scenario) I woke up in the night and found some scumbag going through my stuff (single story house) what would be the single most important Aikido waza I could learn?" There wasn't actually any mention of, "...assuming my deadbolt/alarm system/other elements of plan have failed". I'm no expert on home invasions, but the observation makes sense to me (i.e., that two months' aikido experience is not a good bet for dealing with a home invasion).

I am not convinced there is a distinction between "Say (worst case scenario)" and "'...assuming my deadbolt/alarm system/other elements of plan have failed'" that is worth making.

I think it is safe to say that two months of Aikido is not going to be much help but it might be better than simply soiling oneself.

Janet Rosen
05-07-2014, 10:18 AM
I have a variety of weapons and weaponlike things but more importantly...I know how to move about my house in darkness and how to get out of any room in my house via a window :-)

Edgecrusher
05-07-2014, 10:25 AM
Having other forms of protection (i.e. handgun and/or shotgun) are probably the best bet against intruders in a home invation. I am no expert at this either however, for as long as I have been studying Aikido, hand to hand combat probably wouldn't go down in this scenario. What kind of armament do these intruders have? I certainly wouldn't bring a knife to gun fight.

SteveTrinkle
05-07-2014, 01:17 PM
nothing like the sound of a shotgun racking a round into the chamber to make an intruder reconsider his intentions

Michael Hackett
05-07-2014, 01:43 PM
Well, I DO have a certain amount of expertise in home invasions. In Australia you don't have some of the options we do here in the US, such as firearms. Probably one of the best things you can do to protect yourself and your family is to get a dog. Almost any breed will provide you and the criminal with a warning. Some breeds are very protective and will make life miserable for the crook trying to steal your property. An additional benefit is that a dog will alert you in the event of a housefire too.

I don't know whether pepper spray is an option down under. It really works well and can buy you time for the police to arrive. Going toe-to-toe with a home invader should be viewed as an absolute last resort. You may well win, but you can count on being injured to some degree. Consider having a dog - I've had a number of Queensland Healers who were fantastic companions and family dogs and very, very protective of the whole family. No one could enter without an invitation.

Keep your cell phone on the nightstand.

Keith Larman
05-07-2014, 01:47 PM
A small thermonuclear device hidden under the house with a detonation button under my pillow... That'll show 'em!

Me? Live in a good neighborhood. I have good locks on the doors/windows. And a good monitored alarm system but I also made friends with the police who are about 3 blocks from my house. And they know what I do and have. And one is a sword customer of mine. And a couple very intense dogs inside the house with us who have zero sense of humor about intruders... If anything, it's going to be a very noisy evening...

Of course then there's the W88 warhead under the house... :) I would think a 475 kiloton yield would be sufficient...

Keith Larman
05-07-2014, 01:54 PM
Oh, forgot the Glock with surefire flashlight loaded with Federal "Guard Dog" expanding FMJ rounds in the locked up in the biometric safe... And lots of range time because I was raised in the boonies and learned to shoot, hunt, etc. at an early age... But this is really a last ditch weapon. Well, before the thermonuclear device, of course. A bit more collateral damage with that one.

Keith Larman
05-07-2014, 01:58 PM
And by the way, I'm also completely serious about the dogs. We have Australian Shepherds as my wife competes with them in obedience and herding competitions. That said, the dogs also have passed protection tests with flying colors, actually embarrassing a number of German Shepherd owners in the process. They are "reserved" with strangers but happy as hell with friends. As long as we're not showing any nervousness they're friendly. But the moment they sense any discomfort or nervousness in us, they change modes quite quickly. I was annoyed as hell one day as a guy came up to my house when I was in the middle of something else and in a foul mood. The guy wanted to sell me something and was rather insistent. But when he noticed both dogs go from quietly watching and wiggling to rather obvious deep growling, he decided to pass on trying to convince me any further...

Oh, and make sure your "grounds" around you house are well lit and if possible easily visible from the street. Anything to make it less welcoming to bad guys...

Krystal Locke
05-07-2014, 11:59 PM
Last week a friend of mine had his house burglarised while he and his wife were sleeping in their bedroom and their 3 kids (1 baby) we're sleeping in theirs.

He told me that he woke up, thought he heard something, then went back to sleep. When they got out of bed in the morning a huge amount of their stuff was gone. For perspective they run a photography business on the bottom floor of their house, while they sleep on the top floor. The lower floor was gutted... Cameras, computers, gone. But here's the part that prompted this post...

The upper floor can only be accessed by a deadbolt on their back deck. And the burglars tried to get through the deadbolt to where they sleep. Thankfully the burglars were unsuccessful.

They live in an area where house invasion is very unusual. I do not. Break and enter in my suburb (opposite side of the country to my friends) is so common that people don't even raise an eyebrow when you say your house/car was broken into. And it got me to thinking...

I am a noob at Aikido (2 months). Say (worst case scenario) I woke up in the night and found some scumbag going through my stuff (single story house) what would be the single most important Aikido waza I could learn? Or I guess in general what would be the single most effective thing I could ask my instructor to teach me? I will be asking him next class btw.

Thanks for your input. This is a very real concern for me.

Forget waza, train principles if you are looking at aikido for self-defense purposes. Ma-ai, de-ai, kuzushi, timing. Wrist strengthening exercises because frying pans are heavy. Consider what level of violence you'd actually feel comfortable with performing on an intruder. Get a security system. Do as much as you can to prevent a break-in. Do not think that a few months of training in any martial art would necessarily be there for you when you'd need it.

Michael Douglas
05-08-2014, 03:43 AM
... what would be the single most important Aikido waza I could learn? Or I guess in general what would be the single most effective thing I could ask my instructor to teach me? I will be asking him next class btw.
You'd be looking in the wrong place.
It is your duty to protect your family in your own home: tool up!
I hope your Aikido instructor says the same.

lbb
05-08-2014, 06:36 AM
I am not convinced there is a distinction between "Say (worst case scenario)" and "'...assuming my deadbolt/alarm system/other elements of plan have failed'" that is worth making.

I've no doubt that's true for you; I'm not sure it's true for OP. In other words, to you it's common sense that aikido would not be your first line of defense against a home invasion, and of course no one would even be asking the question except with the implicit "I have these other measure in place, and they all failed (how?)"...but I'm not confident that your common sense is all that common.

macmeier
05-09-2014, 11:25 AM
And by the way, I'm also completely serious about the dogs. We have Australian Shepherds as my wife competes with them in obedience and herding competitions. That said, the dogs also have passed protection tests with flying colors, actually embarrassing a number of German Shepherd owners in the process. They are "reserved" with strangers but happy as hell with friends. As long as we're not showing any nervousness they're friendly. But the moment they sense any discomfort or nervousness in us, they change modes quite quickly. I was annoyed as hell one day as a guy came up to my house when I was in the middle of something else and in a foul mood. The guy wanted to sell me something and was rather insistent. But when he noticed both dogs go from quietly watching and wiggling to rather obvious deep growling, he decided to pass on trying to convince me any further...

Oh, and make sure your "grounds" around you house are well lit and if possible easily visible from the street. Anything to make it less welcoming to bad guys...

Dogs always notice the mood of their owner. If you are nervous, your dog will recognize that and react as expected. A dog is always a good thing if it comes to protect your home. But not everybody has got the time and the affection to care for a dog.

Especially Australian Shepherds need a lot of training and engagement or they will become a huge problem for their owner.

phitruong
05-09-2014, 12:20 PM
house siren ties to remote panic button by your bed. mace and/or large fire extinguisher (spray then swing with it). tranquilizer gun. hand axe and/or meat cleaver (personal favorite). cat as in throw the cat at 'em. mother-in-law as in throw mother-in-law at 'em to slow them down. banana peels and frying pans (for when they get up).

if those failed, then go for the thermal nuclear weapon, but don't use the one Keith recommended. it's too low yield, only in Kiloton, which barely gives you a tan. you need something in the order of megaton. if you are going to do something, don't do half measure. go Rambo style! :D

oh wait! there should be aikido somewhere in here. try go to bed wearing hakama (under clothing optional), that way you are ready on moment notice when you push the button.

BJohnston
05-09-2014, 04:49 PM
I am a noob at Aikido (2 months). Say (worst case scenario) I woke up in the night and found some scumbag going through my stuff (single story house) what would be the single most important Aikido waza I could learn? Or I guess in general what would be the single most effective thing I could ask my instructor to teach me? I will be asking him next class btw.

Thanks for your input. This is a very real concern for me.

A gun is always a good starting point.

Michael Douglas
05-10-2014, 03:46 PM
... go Rambo style! :D

oh wait! there should be aikido somewhere in here. try go to bed wearing hakama (under clothing optional), that way you are ready on moment notice when you push the button.
If Rambo had had a hakama he would've used it!
Serrated survival knife for those under-the-mattress moments.

ryback
05-10-2014, 10:42 PM
Last week a friend of mine had his house burglarised while he and his wife were sleeping in their bedroom and their 3 kids (1 baby) we're sleeping in theirs.

He told me that he woke up, thought he heard something, then went back to sleep. When they got out of bed in the morning a huge amount of their stuff was gone. For perspective they run a photography business on the bottom floor of their house, while they sleep on the top floor. The lower floor was gutted... Cameras, computers, gone. But here's the part that prompted this post...

The upper floor can only be accessed by a deadbolt on their back deck. And the burglars tried to get through the deadbolt to where they sleep. Thankfully the burglars were unsuccessful.

They live in an area where house invasion is very unusual. I do not. Break and enter in my suburb (opposite side of the country to my friends) is so common that people don't even raise an eyebrow when you say your house/car was broken into. And it got me to thinking...

I am a noob at Aikido (2 months). Say (worst case scenario) I woke up in the night and found some scumbag going through my stuff (single story house) what would be the single most important Aikido waza I could learn? Or I guess in general what would be the single most effective thing I could ask my instructor to teach me? I will be asking him next class btw.

Thanks for your input. This is a very real concern for me.
It's not a matter of a single waza but the mindset of being and feeling an aikido warrior that can give you a surviving, fighting chance through such a scenario. And though you can't have any of that in a two months time, still one should do his best to defend if the occasion rises.
Some of the above advices range from naive to hilarious, to absolutely dangerous!
And those who claim that aikido won't work in such a situation, maybe they should talk about their aikido. If one's aikido doesn't work in any self defense case, it means that the person's technique is incorrect and it's not aikido's fault.
The only place that can prepare you for this kind of situations is a good serious dojo. And yes, it won't be easy. And yes, it will take time but that's the way it is. There is no shortcut to being a warrior!!

kewms
05-10-2014, 11:09 PM
And those who claim that aikido won't work in such a situation, maybe they should talk about their aikido. If one's aikido doesn't work in any self defense case, it means that the person's technique is incorrect and it's not aikido's fault.

Now *that's* dangerous advice.

At least in the US, self-defense situations quite often involve guns. Home invaders in particular are especially likely to be armed.

While I guess it's possible to visualize a scenario in which empty-handed aikido can defeat an intruder with a gun, I sure wouldn't bet my life on it or advise anyone else -- regardless of level -- to do so.

Katherine

ryback
05-11-2014, 01:04 AM
Now *that's* dangerous advice.

At least in the US, self-defense situations quite often involve guns. Home invaders in particular are especially likely to be armed.

While I guess it's possible to visualize a scenario in which empty-handed aikido can defeat an intruder with a gun, I sure wouldn't bet my life on it or advise anyone else -- regardless of level -- to do so.

Katherine
So, you got a better idea? A martial art more suitable for disarming?
Or maybe just sit there and be shot or cut would be much less dangerous...

kewms
05-11-2014, 10:56 AM
So, you got a better idea? A martial art more suitable for disarming?
Or maybe just sit there and be shot or cut would be much less dangerous...

In any situation, the best self-defense technique is "don't be there."

Katherine

ryback
05-11-2014, 11:25 AM
In any situation, the best self-defense technique is "don't be there."

Katherine
I agree of course, that would be my first choice too.
But I was talking about being already engaged in an inevitable fight by an intruder or whatever, with no way out of it.
Then you have to fight to the best of your ability, so you have to sharpen and forge that ability.
And may it be that is never needed...

Janet Rosen
05-11-2014, 11:46 AM
I agree of course, that would be my first choice too.
But I was talking about being already engaged in an inevitable fight by an intruder or whatever, with no way out of it.
Then you have to fight to the best of your ability, so you have to sharpen and forge that ability.
And may it be that is never needed...

I was not being facetious in my post. A huge part of my "home self defense" plan is being able to negotiate my way through my home in the dark and get out of a window from any room. You CAN opt to cede ground.

kewms
05-11-2014, 12:28 PM
I agree of course, that would be my first choice too.
But I was talking about being already engaged in an inevitable fight by an intruder or whatever, with no way out of it.
Then you have to fight to the best of your ability, so you have to sharpen and forge that ability.
And may it be that is never needed...

Well sure. With your back against the wall, you use whatever you have.

But how did you get into such a mess in the first place? My feeling is that if you are forced into a physical confrontation, your self-defense strategy has already failed.

Katherine

Michael Hackett
05-11-2014, 04:45 PM
There are differences between an intruder and a home invasion. A burglar in the middle of the night is an intruder and presents a danger to you and your family. A home invasion on the other hand is usually a blitz attack by several armed people at once. In either case you are in deep kim chee.

In the event of a burglar, it would be best to avoid a direct confrontation if possible. Relying on alarms systems, dogs, cell phones and the like will probably run the individual off before the police arrive. If he doesn't flee, then you should be prepared to fight to protect yourself and loved ones. A weapon of some sort will give you an advantage in most cases; a club, sword, bokken, pepper spray, or firearm. If those aren't accessible or ineffective, then fight with whatever skill set you have. The art is relatively unimportant, but your survival and protective instincts are. Bite, kick, gouge, punch, poke and anything else that comes to mind are all appropriate. Aikido will work, but so will karate, wrestlings, jujitsu, boxing, krag maga, and any other art. It just has to be applied with the intention of surviving the conflict and protecting the family. There are legal implications of course, but if you are defending your home in the middle of the night, they aren't of too much concern.

A home invasion is another matter and you've probably lost the battle when you answer the door. Home invasions are usually specific target events and unless you are a high-value target for some reason, it probably won't even happen to you. There isn't much defense to several armed individuals rushing through the door unexpectedly and the deck is stacked against you. You will have to decide at that moment whether to submit, fight or flee and there is no clear answer here in the cool light of day.

A friend of mine was the victim of a hot-prowl burglary about a year ago. He and his wife were asleep and a man loaded on meth broke into their home in the middle of the night. Their dog awakened them and Bob immediately called 9-1-1 and requested help. Their bedroom door was locked and deadbolted and Bob warned the individual that the police were on the way. Unfortunately for the burglar, he was too loaded to heed the warning and tried to kick his way into the bedroom. When he succeeded, Bob shot him seven times with a .22 pistol, all the while on the phone to the police. The suspect died at the scene and it was a terrible event for all concerned, including the police who didn't arrive for approximately three more minutes.

Thankfully these events are rare in most communities. Burglars prefer to break in during the day when most people are away from home and at work. In this case, the burglar wasn't a thief, but an individual out of his mind on a meth run. Bob, by the way, is a retired Army Colonel who served most of his time with Special Forces. Could he have defeated the attacker with physical combat? Maybe. While this was tragic, at least Bob and his wife are alive and safe.

ryback
05-12-2014, 06:22 AM
Well sure. With your back against the wall, you use whatever you have.

But how did you get into such a mess in the first place? My feeling is that if you are forced into a physical confrontation, your self-defense strategy has already failed.

Katherine
In a real self defense situation there are a lot of x factors and the thought that you can always escape is naive to say the least. You get in a "fight or flight" mode, but sometimes flight it's not an option. You don't get the luxury to choose that easily if somebody has invaded your personal place.
But still, building the strategy to escape, having the mentality to do it and seeing it through under pressure is an aikido virtue as well, at least in my dojo.
And that's why I said it's not a matter of a single Waza, but of an holistic approach and training in aikido that can only be done in a serious dojo, if you want to invest your knowledge in every aspect of life. Self defense is only one aspect, but no surviving:no life!

lbb
05-12-2014, 08:05 AM
I agree of course, that would be my first choice too.

Why didn't you state it?