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Paula Lydon
08-14-2002, 09:28 AM
Wasn't sure what catagory to put this one in. Aikido is wonderful in that training in it is blending physical and energy patterns, not just the body. This, I've experienced, brings up many sensations that I don't always understand.
Now, how to put this? There's a person at my dojo who is very good, and I'm not so bad, but when we train together it's quite often all confusion and klutziness. For me, it feels like this swirling energy pattern is laid over our physical reality, muting it so that I lose track of our bodies. This other person seems just as awkward, letting me take their center regularily, fumbling around...and they are not usually like that. We have no particular history, no animosity, no whatever..?
This is an especially weird one, I know, so will understand if no one responds.:D

Hogan
08-14-2002, 09:42 AM
Wasn't sure what catagory to put this one in. Aikido is wonderful in that training in it is blending physical and energy patterns, not just the body. This, I've experienced, brings up many sensations that I don't always understand.

Now, how to put this? There's a person at my dojo who is very good, and I'm not so bad, but when we train together it's quite often all confusion and klutziness. For me, it feels like this swirling energy pattern is laid over our physical reality, muting it so that I lose track of our bodies. This other person seems just as awkward, letting me take their center regularily, fumbling around...and they are not usually like that. We have no particular history, no animosity, no whatever..?

This is an especially weird one, I know, so will understand if no one responds.:D
Maybe they like you, and is all embarrassed ??? ;)

paw
08-14-2002, 09:54 AM
Paula,

Have you asked them about this?

Maybe they are "letting you into the game" and allowing their center to be taken, etc?

Maybe they have chosen one specific thing to work on, and don't care how the technique resolves as they only want to work on one small aspect of something?

Maybe there is a contrast in "styles"? Because of body dynamics, personal preferences, phases of the moon, whatever, the two of you don't seem to perform as well as you would expect.

Off the top of my head,

Paul

Kevin Leavitt
08-14-2002, 09:59 AM
I think the beauty of it all is the fact that is caused you to ask the question and think about it in the context of them as a person!

This is what it is all about!

Genex
08-14-2002, 10:02 AM
maybe you have opposite Ki energies and your cancelling each other out?

other then that i reckon he fancy's you but there we go ;)

pete

L. Camejo
08-14-2002, 10:35 AM
Hi all,

Maybe you both need to "listen" more to each other's movements.

Feel the direction and force of the other's body before reacting in some prearranged pattern. It is possible that because you both are "good" as you put it, you may have become accustomed to others naturally letting you lead them or take the lead during paired practice.

It's possible that the 2 of you are projecting so much energy toward each other that neither is stopping to receive energy and hence know how to react.

My 2 cents. It's what I do when it happens to me.

L.C.:ai::ki:

ChristianBoddum
08-19-2002, 09:47 PM
Talk about strange things -

sometimes it's very hard for me to stay centered and grounded - physically,somehow

I can become very very light,like a feather,

this seems to be a natural for my body but is

"incorrect" as far far as training goes,where

do you draw the line between learning how your

particular body works while still coworking correctly ?

I can levitate,I know because I did today and at the same time I knew this is not to be used in training.

yours - Chr.B.

mike lee
08-20-2002, 04:12 AM
Both partners should strive to maintain their center under all conditions.

What you're describing is two people intentionally giving up their center in an effort to accomodate each other. It's sweet, but it's not aikido waza.

ian
08-20-2002, 07:18 AM
Yeh, I'd go with Larry. I had a problem instructing a while ago, finding it increasingly frustrating as some students felt they had to leap over whilst I did a technique. I talked to someone more senior and they said basically 'deal with what you actually have, and not what you want to have'. A very important breakthrough for me. If someone just leaps over, let them leap over, but don't think that you have to be compliant and pretend that you actually did the throw; you only need to throw when they are imparting energy towards you. Hopefully this awkwardness will be a learning experience!

Ian

gi_grrl
08-26-2002, 02:05 AM
Hi Paula,

I think I know what you mean but I'm not sure...

There are some people in the dojo, who, whenever I come up against them, my technique just falls apart. It may be that they are strong and fast and a bit scary. It may be that they are light and delicate and I don't think they want to ukemi. It may be that they perceive me to be one of the above and attack differently. Or perhaps I just don't like them. Whatever the reason...It' s usually a preconception / emotion that blocks my technique. The only thing that works for me is to train with them as often as possible. When you get to know someone, you find understanding and trust and then the training begins to flow.

Cheers, Fi.

guest1234
08-26-2002, 05:58 AM
I think I'd go more with the folks who've mentioned intentional falling, which is not just a beginner's disease. Seniors do it when they think they know the technique and the ukemi, and decide to do the ukemi vs. receive the technique. These are the ones who will say they 'lead' their junior partners through the technique by their ukemi...sometimes achievable, but when with a junior partner who is instead accidentally doing something else, or a more equal or senior partner who is intentionally doing something else, the result is two people independantly doing Aikido moves on the mat together. It looks and feels icky.

I think senior partners who do the ukemi regardless of their partners movements (esp if they have another senior partner) are ignoring the basic reason to have partners; often the disconnect is felt because one or both of them has 'yudansha disease', and didn't really watch what sensei did, so both are up there doing two different techniques and the ukemi that goes with them. Because I am really an evil person, deep down evileyes, I tend to let them go when I feel this, watch them finish the technique without me, and smile.

Paula Lydon
08-28-2002, 08:44 AM
Thanks all! I've tried out some of these ideas and things seem somewhat better recently. This person and I have also talked a bit and I think that helped as well. Appriciated! :)