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Dave Gallagher
12-12-2013, 09:18 PM
I was watching a few videos and I have noticed that some people like to have their rank belt sticking out of the side of their kakama. I am the only person who thinks this looks silly?

hughrbeyer
12-12-2013, 09:44 PM
Because hakama themselves totally don't look silly.

Stephen Nichol
12-12-2013, 09:59 PM
I was watching a few videos and I have noticed that some people like to have their rank belt sticking out of the side of their kakama. I am the only person who thinks this looks silly?

Short answer. No you are not. I too find this not silly but more... pretentious.

But as Hugh said, the whole thing is kind of laughable really. 'Traditional' costumes and all. Why do we not just train in sweat pants and t-shirts?

My co-worker who is a 3rd dan in Karate asked me once about how the senior instructors wanted to buy him a new training uniform with his name and something else embroidered in Japanese on the front left fold at the chest level. He felt it smacked to much of 'wank factor'... and the whole elaborate Japanese embroidery of :stuff: on things got talked about in a similar fashion. I simply pointed out the fact that we play dress up in the first place by wearing Japanese under clothes because 'tradition' to train in could be considered 'wank factor' on it's own... it is only a question then of how much of a wanker you want to look like.

He had not considered it quite like that.

My thoughts then are simply this: At the point where we play dress up because 'tradition', then the only point is how much to you want to buy into that and take it as far as you like and or are comfortable with. ;)

Belts with rank on them... well, mine are all bare.. blank.. not even a brand name badge. Sticking out of the Hakama... as I said, cheesy and pretentious. In an art that supposedly guides one to let go of their ego... well, that sure seems like one way of the ego just beaming on through to me. :confused:

Dave Gallagher
12-12-2013, 10:14 PM
The only thing as silly as the belt end sticking out of the sides is the Traditional Karate groups who have competitions and the officials wear not only their karate gi but a hakama with their rank belts tied on the outside of the hakama. Pure bullshit.

jurasketu
12-12-2013, 10:26 PM
Why do you care? Seriously. What does it matter? It is more comfortable that way for me.

Stephen Nichol
12-12-2013, 11:45 PM
Why do you care? Seriously. What does it matter? It is more comfortable that way for me.

Hi Robin,

This is not personal so please bear with me on this.

1. The original post was about 'belt rank sticking outside of Hakama'
2. My feelings about 'belt rank (and other :stuff: )' being embroidered on a belt and perhaps 'also' being intentionally left hanging out on display for all to see, was something I dislike.
3. Dave's post was about senior Karate practitioners wearing their belts outside the Hakama which is completely absurd given how Hakama were traditionally worn in Japan.

So in the context of the points above is your post about more about you being more comfortable with your belt ends hanging out of your Hakama or the need to display your rank?

(to clarify my point, I tie my belt in a way that the ends are tucked in with natural folds of it as it goes around my waist and not just let them flop around. They are not the way of anything and so no less comfortable than wearing the belt itself.)

Carl Thompson
12-13-2013, 02:31 AM
This makes it easier to see if you're kicking the ass of someone of higher rank, or, having your ass kicked by someone of higher rank. The fact that they want to (or are unintentionally) broadcasting their rank is something to be born in mind but, I would say, no big deal. If the broadcasting is important (e.g.: because the relationship is in err), you can change it yourself. I've been shut down by enough beginners and white belts and at the same time (and at the same level in my own progression), I've stopped enough shihans to understand that rank is at first a matter of relationship with one's teacher. From there, it is a matter of cooperation (not necessarily in training) with the aim of promulgation and cross-pollination within the art. At worst, rank is a way of humiliating those who take it too seriously for those seriously pursuing the art. For those with other motives, the levels of abuse are great. Someone "purposely" showing you their "higher level" is making it easy for you. If you can, I'd say enjoy it.

Dave Gallagher
12-13-2013, 07:11 AM
I just consider this to be in the same league as those guys that wear their pants down to their thighs and showing most of their underwear. It just looks silly.

Keith Larman
12-13-2013, 08:53 AM
Had some kids come for a while once. Brother and sister, mid-teens. Both came from a striking art that apparently had a lot of programs that generated patches and what-not. Generally most stuff like this just makes me smile because while I don't have any use for it, well, whatever floats your boat. And I'm sure the parents were proud of their "integrity" patch or whatever (although I'm not sure how they test or qualify for that -- maybe they did a good deed). Anywho... The one thing that I just couldn't quite get over was the fact that each kid's gi had their name on the back -- large lettering. But not just that. It was "John Smith - Black Belt". I wanted to ask them if it was so they didn't mix up their gi (brother and sister) and whether the "black belt" part was in case they forgot which belt to wear... The kids looked like Nascar drivers...

Now, all that said, we walk around in freaking riding pants. Or are they better described as Cullottes (sp?)? I tell the kids I teach that they're magic pants of power.

So all that said... It's tradition. We let students wear the hakama at 2nd kyu. I've seen a few folk over the years let their belt hang out a bit more once they pass shodan. For a little while. Doesn't really bug me and I honestly don't remember if I did that as well. I've also noticed a few 2nd and 1st kyu work really hard to wrap the hakama straps around the brown belt as much as humanly possible hiding it away. But whatever. It's all kinda silly on one level or another. And frankly if they stay long enough usually all this stuff just becomes what you wear when you train.

A few years back I horrified a kids class by suddenly pulling off my hakama. They were getting footwork wrong and I wanted them to watch how I was moving. The kids giggled and screamed accordingly. And yes, I was wearing pants underneath. So it's kinda funny to me that they thought it was funny that I was teaching partially undressed even though in the end I was wearing exactly what they were wearing... I had one of the older kids who arrived early for the next class tell me she hardly recognized me wearing "normal" stuff.

And now I have no idea where I'm going with my post... Mostly I'm just relaying what the voices in my head are saying. Nice to have them back -- excellent.... :) Sorry, carry on...

Keith Larman
12-13-2013, 09:06 AM
Hold on -- voices are back.

It was probably a decade ago, but I had a booth at the San Francisco Token Kai (highly technical Japanese translation -- "big, honking Japanese Sword show filled with sword geeks"). I was standing there behind my table, bored out of my mind, and I notice a guy in a black gi, hakama and belt walking about. Um, okay, interesting. This is San Francisco so you do occasionally see an, um, unusual person, but why on earth was he in his magical martial arts power outfit in a hotel ballroom at a convention? I was pretty sure there were no power ranger exhibitions going on. He came by my table and looked at a few things. He recognized my name and we chatted. But I couldn't get my mind off his belt -- it was a black belt but it was covered with tiny colored stripes. I never got up the courage to ask about the belt (tied neatly outside his hakama -- which is rare but done sometimes in some arts BTW). Anyway, it was a bit hard to see over the rather profound overhang that was the future cause of his heart failure. As he walked off I realized he was wearing geta too... I was pondering his outfit and the rationale for wearing it at a sword show when two other guys walk up. Guy #1 had his gi on but closed in the Japanese "Time to Bury This Guy" style. Shoved through his obi was a tanto. He pulls it out to proudly show this piece of his handiwork. Now I'm usually the guy who will look, try to encourage, and make a few suggestions. Here I had no idea where to start. The term SLO came to mind (sword like object). So I suggested he continue clopping around (yup, geta too) and look at the, oh, thousands of mounts on the floor. As he talked away I realized he had a small bit of his hair tied up on top -- yes, a baby top-knot...

I later found out the first guy was in town for the sword show and was a "big-deal" sensei somewhere or another with lots of students. And he taught some art that combined Japanese arts, Korean Arts, Chinese Arts and American sensibilities. He was apparently a little sketchy with the folk who knew something about Japanese Arts as to exactly *which* arts he studied. Regardless, seemed like a nice guy. Interesting fashion sense.

These later guys who came by were students of a San Fran local guy who is rather infamous as being the only person ever banned from a sword show. He started as a Chinese guy (which apparently is what he is). Then he was a Ninja guy for a while when that was big in the 80's. After that he somehow obtained a nationality assignment operation and became Japanese. And now he's a Japanese sword "expert".

So yeah, a bit delusional. But I must admit that after watching these guys I realized that in this modern day and age, isn't it really just a question of degree? For all of us?

Richard Stevens
12-13-2013, 09:19 AM
The only thing as silly as the belt end sticking out of the sides is the Traditional Karate groups who have competitions and the officials wear not only their karate gi but a hakama with their rank belts tied on the outside of the hakama. Pure bullshit.

The belt outside of the Hakama is common among Jujutsu groups. I preferred to keep mine under the hakama.

phitruong
12-13-2013, 10:11 AM
question, if you have nothing under the hakama, a la commando, do you still need the belt? and do you wear the belt outside, if your hakama is velcro and you are with the Village People? :D

phitruong
12-13-2013, 10:13 AM
. Mostly I'm just relaying what the voices in my head are saying. Nice to have them back -- excellent.... :) Sorry, carry on...

one must not lose the voices in one's head. they are the only thing that help with sanity.

Rob Watson
12-13-2013, 11:25 AM
One of these days I'm going to show up at an international seminar with my hak tied up like the very first hak I ever saw in that Bruce Lee movie where the dude was wearing the hak ... backwards!

Cliff Judge
12-13-2013, 11:27 AM
It is not my belt sticking out of my hakama that I worry about.

Krystal Locke
12-13-2013, 11:27 AM
The only time my belt should show even a bit from under my hak is when I'm feeling uppity and wearing the pink belt I got the gf a while back. Hey, if my sensei can take it to wear at a seminar he's teaching, I can certainly wear it at the dojo once in a while. Annoys the stuffier sempai, and I like that.

About the patchy gi thingy, I have three letters. BJJ. What is up with that? The art seems to go from no-gi/rash guard/slippery/(maybe vaseline???) attempts to not give opponents a handle to wearing a gi with additional extra bonus traction devices. And how can a person not see them coming from miles away?

As long as we're on fashion faux-pas, I have two. Wearing the kit outside of training, even just to get to the dojo. I find it to be unsafe and generally ego driven. Sensei or sempai or anyone wearing non-gi Japanese clothing, especially for media purposes. Kinda creepy. Ok, three. Spending real money on something that's going to get hella trashed in a few months if I am training right. Of course, my gi will be clean, repaired, and safely functional. That's it. It is work clothes. It is a consumable.

My latest dorkalicious story. I was asked to help lead the college class we occasionally do. Typical mix, couple jocks (great to train with), couple theatre people (also great), Yusuke the Tomiki yudansha exchange student who was excited as all shit out to find aikido of any sort in the little podunk town his school is in (super great to train with), purple belt guy from up the road (prettty good, but a bit of "at my dojo" syndrome), 19 year old Dave who "got all the way to orange belt in TKD when he was a kid" who kept telling me you can kill someone with a palm strike to the nose/touch of death heart punch to kill someone/only takes 7 ounces of pressure to kill someone/kill someone/I dont know my right ass from my left elbow but I know 37 ways to kill someone/oh, and kill someone (amusing or frustrating depending on the day), and then there was him.

Him, 150 lb, 5' 11.9999" skinny white guy from Eastern Oregon, said he was self-taught in kenjiujitsudo. Walked into every class with a indigo gi and hakama, hakama three inches longer than his legs to be sure to hide his secret footwork. Had a rubber tanto in his obi because he didn't want to hurt anyone but his real training, this was just something to do while in school, compelled him to always have a blade of some sort on him and who knew what else he had hidden upon him so dont fuck with him. Topknot and dreads and beaded thread wraps, all under a dread bag and a Naruto hachmaki and tekkou. Would not practice ukemi because nobody could make him fall down (.........) Tried to teach us the throat finger stab that Inuyasha used against Bankotsu, but came from his style of martial arts. His power level, IT'S OVER 9000

Cosplay != aikido.

Krystal Locke
12-13-2013, 11:37 AM
Had some kids come for a while once. Brother and sister, mid-teens. Both came from a striking art that apparently had a lot of programs that generated patches and what-not. Generally most stuff like this just makes me smile because while I don't have any use for it, well, whatever floats your boat. And I'm sure the parents were proud of their "integrity" patch or whatever (although I'm not sure how they test or qualify for that -- maybe they did a good deed). Anywho... The one thing that I just couldn't quite get over was the fact that each kid's gi had their name on the back -- large lettering. But not just that. It was "John Smith - Black Belt". I wanted to ask them if it was so they didn't mix up their gi (brother and sister) and whether the "black belt" part was in case they forgot which belt to wear... The kids looked like Nascar drivers...


This. http://www.mmawarehouse.com/tatami_spirit_of_japan_bjj_gi/tat-1036.html?green=2B10464B-658E-58F7-A9F7-69349E190D2E

My eyes are tired.

This, http://georgetteoden.blogspot.com/2010/04/fabulous-tie-dyed-gi.html , however, is awesome.

phitruong
12-13-2013, 11:57 AM
got a kid from local taewondo school, with black belt and patches. he came to practice with us for awhile. we did bokken stuffs. he asked me if we have a reversed blade bokken. i actually knew what he was asking. hey, when you got young boys at home, you know these things. so i kept a straight face, and flipped my bokken over then tap him on the head. he said "ow". i said "i guessed that worked". i turned the bokken over to the side and tap him on the head. he said "ow". i said "that worked too". then i said "you know! i have this weapon that you can reverse in anyway you want and it would work the same way" i pulled the weapon of the rack and handed to him. he said "it's a stick!" i said "yup!" and was trying very hard to keep a straight face.

kids these days! luckily my kids, like me, just like the normal weaponry stuffs. although, they have been eying my hatchet lately and licking their chops. hey keith, you do hatchet?!!! :D

Cliff Judge
12-13-2013, 12:44 PM
Sensei or sempai or anyone wearing non-gi Japanese clothing, especially for media purposes. Kinda creepy.

I totally wear yukata and jinbei and stuff around the house when it is summer time.

Millsy
12-13-2013, 01:41 PM
This. http://www.mmawarehouse.com/tatami_spirit_of_japan_bjj_gi/tat-1036.html?green=2B10464B-658E-58F7-A9F7-69349E190D2E

My eyes are tired.

This, http://georgetteoden.blogspot.com/2010/04/fabulous-tie-dyed-gi.html , however, is awesome.

I totally want that Tie Die gi. When I go home to Australia I'll tell my sensei that's what all the cool aikido people are wearing in the US, she'll love it! Hmmm need a Tie Dye Hakama too!

Rupert Atkinson
12-13-2013, 02:01 PM
I too have seen all sorts but for myself, right off the bat from young, my instinct was to be as plain as possible, even if we do run about in Japanese pyjamas. No need for stupid badges and such like - just too pretentious and so against ... my common sense.

I remember many years ago I used to train in the gym in the Edinburgh sports centre. We just wore anything - T shirts etc. - and practiced this and that. One day, two Ninja walked in, dressed from head to toe in black. They started training next to us and it was totally obvious they had no skill whatsoever - beginners. We tried our best not to laugh, gotta be polite after all. Never saw them again - which I suppose meant that maybe their skill had increased.:-) That will remain forever my introduction to Ninjutsu and my opinion remains tainted to this day.

PeterR
12-13-2013, 02:16 PM
Rupert - the really good Ninja are invisible.

Except for the pink suited lady ninjas at the Iga Ninja museum and that's because they want to be seen.

SteveTrinkle
12-13-2013, 02:34 PM
[QUOTE=
http://www.google.com/search?q=hello+kitty+hakama&nord=1&tbm=isch&source=iu&imgil=jv6ZLOjhi5h1qM%253A%253Bhttp%253A%252F%252Ft1.gstatic.com%252Fimages%253Fq %253Dtbn%253AANd9GcS93l2_6g82hHk-hObWVG9rjXhciMY06H36VF_QVAMz3xYkq-BnQw%253B600%253B738%253B0ZnzIMr3gOBprM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.leotama ki.com%25252Farticle-hakama-blanc-suite-112168101.html&sa=X&ei=726rUu_COvfMsQT7nYCIAg&ved=0CCsQ9QEwAA&biw=1893&bih=944#facrc=_&imgrc=jv6ZLOjhi5h1qM%3A%3B0ZnzIMr3gOBprM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fimg.over-blog.com%252F600x738%252F0%252F38%252F57%252F25%252FTAMAKI-LEO%252FAIKIDO%252FLeo-Tamaki-hakama-Hello-Kitty.jpeg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.leotamaki.com%252Farticle-hakama-blanc-suite-112168101.html%3B600%3B738here's what I'm wearing

jurasketu
12-13-2013, 02:47 PM
@Stephen Nichol - Not offended. Still. I don't see that it matters.

My black belt has gold Japanese characters indicating my name and Aikido on it - so maybe it looks like I'm "displaying" rank. If so, my apologies - certainly not intended. In our organization, only black belts wear hakamas and there is no "stripes", new belt or indicator given for additional dan grade/ranks. So no one can "display" their rank as such. And we know each other's ranks anyway... It's not like its a secret or something. I'm just a shodan in a dojo with six yondans and a collection of skilled sandans and nidans. I'm in no danger of tromping around in my getup with a superiority complex and I'm not afraid to look incompetent in front of anyone (which is a good thing given my proclivity to do so).

I don't care about patches or other symbols that folks rate as pretension. People should be able to wear whatever they wish. For my book, people can wear whatever the hell they want as long as they are decent and kind. I don't care about ragged gis or hakamas - although I prefer ones in good condition for myself.

Of course, to my wife's great annoyance, I don't care about clothing, other than comfort, much at all.

I do wear my dojo T-shirts around town (for advertising purposes). People will often ask me what Aikido is - and so I get to explain and sometimes "sell" Aikido (adult/kids) to them. I guess some folks would see that as pretentious.

Robin

Keith Larman
12-13-2013, 03:45 PM
The voices have been bugging me ever since I wrote my replies... I know a lot of folk know this, but seriously, the rest of you do realize that the keikogi 99% of us wear is a modern thing, right? With a colored obi that is similarly rather modern? Then with a hakama that, well, isn't so modern? It's not like we're talking about traditions that are 500 years old here. Heck, the keikogi and colored obi thing are pure Meiji era stuff... You know, post samurai and all that. We train in Judo outfits. With hakama. Cause that's what we do. Cause keiko gi were what most folk were training with in judo and they worked out really well for training. And Judo was/is quite popular. And for whatever reason a lot of folk in Aikido ended up with the same keikogi for training. Just with hakama for some for whatever reason (make it more formal looking?).

It just strikes me as odd to complain about belts sticking out, belts over/under hakama, etc. I'm perfectly happy to train in sweats and a t-shirt. It's just training gear. I'm always astounded we'll have this discussion but it seems like no one ever really gets deeply in to the question of why we wear the amazing power skirts (hakama). I swear, I think some come to aikido solely to wear the funny pants sometimes... :)

And for full disclosure, my obi has kanji for our style on one side and then my name on the other. Because it's my belt and not someone else's. Which makes it a bit easier to not accidentally grab the wrong belt in the dressing room after class. Otherwise the belt is just under the hakama and it hanging out has never been a problem for me. Frankly next time I suit up I"m going to have to pay attention to what I do with the thing when I do get dressed...

Krystal Locke
12-13-2013, 04:53 PM
Story on one of my dojomates, who I love dearly. This woman has been doing aikido forevor with some of the big guns and is actually quite good, even her offspring has a nidan. Probably came out that way.

Anyway, she got her shodan a few days before her um, second 30th (60th actually) b'day. Our sensei got her a beautiful belt with the Osensei aikido kanji that is typical for our school's obi, not to mention very typical for the several wall hangings we have on the shomen and elsewhere that all say aikido...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2b/Kanji_Aikido.JPG

in beautiful bright red embroidery. I commented on the nice color, and she thanked me and said "Yeah, now I just wish I knew what it said....." Oh, dear. Oh, I love my aikido family. I asked if she saw any kanji just like it anywhere else in the dojo, maybe she could parse it out that way.....

Rupert Atkinson
12-13-2013, 05:19 PM
Rupert - the really good Ninja are invisible.

Except for the pink suited lady ninjas at the Iga Ninja museum and that's because they want to be seen.

Correct!

And I too have been to that museum. Kinda funny huh?

SteliosPapadakis
12-15-2013, 12:26 AM
It is not my belt sticking out of my hakama that I worry about.

Absolute Respect! :D

Stephen Nichol
12-15-2013, 05:36 PM
@Stephen Nichol - Not offended. Still. I don't see that it matters.

My black belt has gold Japanese characters indicating my name and Aikido on it - so maybe it looks like I'm "displaying" rank. If so, my apologies - certainly not intended. In our organization, only black belts wear hakamas and there is no "stripes", new belt or indicator given for additional dan grade/ranks. So no one can "display" their rank as such. And we know each other's ranks anyway... It's not like its a secret or something. I'm just a shodan in a dojo with six yondans and a collection of skilled sandans and nidans. I'm in no danger of tromping around in my getup with a superiority complex and I'm not afraid to look incompetent in front of anyone (which is a good thing given my proclivity to do so).

I don't care about patches or other symbols that folks rate as pretension. People should be able to wear whatever they wish. For my book, people can wear whatever the hell they want as long as they are decent and kind. I don't care about ragged gis or hakamas - although I prefer ones in good condition for myself.

Of course, to my wife's great annoyance, I don't care about clothing, other than comfort, much at all.

I do wear my dojo T-shirts around town (for advertising purposes). People will often ask me what Aikido is - and so I get to explain and sometimes "sell" Aikido (adult/kids) to them. I guess some folks would see that as pretentious.

Robin

@ Robin Johnson,

No apologies required whatsoever about anything. I completely understand. I am very similar to you with your feelings about the topic at hand. Once again this about 'everything in context' which was part of the original post.

Key point is context. I missed this in my first post.

It is very common for the Dojo/Sensei to have a belt prepared with embroidery of a person's name and the art on it for when they take/pass their Shodan test. Much like a gift in recognition of that student's effort etc. I completely understand that. It is just not my 'thing'. I would accept a belt like that and put it away and wear a plain one and perhaps only pull out ones with embroidery on it for ceremonial purposes but like I said before.. I tie mine in a way that you would not be able to read anything on it anyway.

Although the original post did not branch onto badges and worn out training Gi and Hakama this thread has.

Badges: Display accomplishments. People trying to improve themselves and getting recognition for it and their accomplishments.

My thoughts are that cubs/brownies scouts/guides have badges for accomplishing things and wear them to show others that they have.. this is part of that culture... I do not find it conducive to a 'non sport' martial practice (Aikido). Sport martial arts and people/personalities who find themselves driven in that way it is suits them and sport they play and continue to help grow. I have nothing against that.

Worn out training Gi and Hakamas: This was talked about in another thread elsewhere on the website:

Essentially you have those that cannot afford to own several training Gi and so they wear out the few they have faster. I personally find the washing machine does the job of fraying the collar behind the neck area out more that any training I do. Perhaps a lower speed on the spin cycle would reduce this somewhat. So I feel there is an acceptable level of 'wear and tear' for a training Gi. I would not train in best t-shirt and sweat pants either...

Those that do not care (give no thought regarding it as it is unimportant to them as individuals) about the condition of their training gear. This could be a tell tale aspect about them as a person and all sorts of things.

Those that believe the 'thrashed look' means you are perceived as being 'awesome' and must be good because your gear is all worn out.

Someone used the term 'reverse vanity' (I really like that term by the way) for those that let their gear get worn out and hold on to it like some sort of 'badge of honor' or whatever they feel it means to them.

However whenever I look around at senior 'Aikido' practitioners or teachers and they all for the most part dress neatly and keep their appearance clean and tidy. (All the dojo-cho's in our association, our association head, and his teacher Saito Sensei, never wear worn out thrashed training gear and never have their belts flopping outside their hakama's. However, some of the students in the association have the worn out gear for various reasons and wear their belts however they do for whatever reasons they have. These are merely my observations and experiences.

Names on uniform come in handy so new people can remember your name or especially at seminars where people may not know or remember everyone who shows up from all over the place to attend.

This is all very different in context to someone who trains an 'art' that is 'martial' for the betterment of themselves and removal of the egoistic self yet somehow has a belt or training Gi that is essentially a walking billboard or statement of 'My name, my rank, my school, in both Japanese and English'.

In the end to each their own. I want to be clear that I do not judge others by this at all. They are clearly making a statement, even if it is unconscious, to everyone else about themselves. That in itself is useful information and as you said.. 'as long as they are decent people' that are sharing my time and mats with me then I am happy to train with them regardless how 'they choose to present themselves'.

I just prefer neat and tidy and presentable. And I find those that give off that vibe of 'hey check out the golden scrambled eggs all over my thrashed worn out black belt that I intentionally leave flopping out of my hakama for all to be in awe of' etc, to be the more 'interesting' ones to train with.

hughrbeyer
12-15-2013, 09:56 PM
You can over-think this. I wear my belt the way my teacher does. End of story.

Stephen Nichol
12-15-2013, 10:18 PM
Absolutely. My teacher and her teachers all keep them tucked inside the Hakama. Funny that only a few students do not and the teachers do not seem to make a big deal of it.

The original post was about if anyone else thought it looked silly. Of course it got derailed from there and so here we are, trying to get back on track.

lbb
12-16-2013, 07:35 AM
You can over-think this. I wear my belt the way my teacher does. End of story.

Indeed so. Making up stories about other people's motives and intentions is almost always a mistake.

Walter Martindale
12-16-2013, 08:41 AM
My first black belt (from judo - it's too small now :-( ) has my surname on it in katakana - so that if it's on the floor somewhere and there are a lot of black belts around, it's not going to be used by someone else.

My current black belt (from aikido) has kanji "given to (my name in katakana), friend/brother" on one end and the name of that dojo on the other end - the dojo gives these to whomever grades to shodan through their training at that dojo.

I tie it the way my sensei - all of them - have tied it - yeah, the ends stick out - who cares? Why would it matter? If a person has a problem with the way someone wears their obi, whose problem is it, really?

Rocky - one of my sensei - said "he's got a black belt - that means you can throw him harder" He also said that if he's got a yellow belt (gokyu) you can throw him harder than a white belt, blue belt (yonkyu, sankyu) you can throw him harder, and a brown belt (nikyu, ikkyu) harder still.

Malicat
12-16-2013, 08:52 AM
This. http://www.mmawarehouse.com/tatami_spirit_of_japan_bjj_gi/tat-1036.html?green=2B10464B-658E-58F7-A9F7-69349E190D2E

My eyes are tired.

This, http://georgetteoden.blogspot.com/2010/04/fabulous-tie-dyed-gi.html , however, is awesome.

Krystal, both of those links make me not love you any more!

--Ashley

hughrbeyer
12-16-2013, 11:37 AM
Are you kidding? I'm totally dying (heh heh) to show up at summer camp in one of the tie-dyed gi.

Dave Gallagher
12-17-2013, 12:13 PM
My first black belt (from judo - it's too small now :-( ) has my surname on it in katakana - so that if it's on the floor somewhere and there are a lot of black belts around, it's not going to be used by someone else.

My current black belt (from aikido) has kanji "given to (my name in katakana), friend/brother" on one end and the name of that dojo on the other end - the dojo gives these to whomever grades to shodan through their training at that dojo.

I tie it the way my sensei - all of them - have tied it - yeah, the ends stick out - who cares? Why would it matter? If a person has a problem with the way someone wears their obi, whose problem is it, really?

Rocky - one of my sensei - said "he's got a black belt - that means you can throw him harder" He also said that if he's got a yellow belt (gokyu) you can throw him harder than a white belt, blue belt (yonkyu, sankyu) you can throw him harder, and a brown belt (nikyu, ikkyu) harder still.

....Walter, in my original post I did not say I had a problem with it. I only asked if anyone else thought it looked silly. I still think it's silly.

Krystal Locke
12-17-2013, 08:14 PM
Krystal, both of those links make me not love you any more!

--Ashley

Whaaaaattt? You aren't into the tie-dyed gi? Bazillion times better than the billboard of a uniform in the first link. I wouldn't be surprised to see an American Eagle gi, or Hollister, Aeropostale, Old Navy. Look how much TapouT and Affliction, Xtreme Couture, Metal Mulisha, SRH, and a whole bunch of other niche market clothing companies have entirely sold the fuck out. Read the Urban dictionary entry for TapoT, true

I'd be ok with a Levis or Carhartt hakama, though. We've all got our fetishes.....

Walter Martindale
12-17-2013, 09:03 PM
....Walter, in my original post I did not say I had a problem with it. I only asked if anyone else thought it looked silly. I still think it's silly.
Doesn't really matter. Does it? I think a lot of things are silly (not all in aikido).

Michael Varin
12-19-2013, 12:32 AM
Sticking out or not, a judo/karate-style belt under an hakama is silly. Period.

I stopped wearing my black belt with my hakama about eight years ago and have never regretted it.

SteliosPapadakis
12-19-2013, 01:12 AM
Sticking out or not, a judo/karate-style belt under an hakama is silly. Period.

Not necessarily, if you ask my own personal experience. Can be a matter of ergonomic acquaintance!
Without a belt under it, my hakama would just fly away each time my teacher throws me around. The only way to keep my hakama close to me is to tie it's belts around and through my inside belt. Tried all the other ways around and nothing works. Tying the hakama belts alone around my iliac bones creates pain than i cannot withstand.
So it always comes down to very personal somatic and psychic comfort, i reckon.
:)

Michael Varin
12-19-2013, 02:08 AM
Tried all the other ways around and nothing works. Tying the hakama belts alone around my iliac bones creates pain than i cannot withstand.


Wonder what they did for all those years? :confused:

SteliosPapadakis
12-19-2013, 07:25 AM
Wonder what they did for all those years? :confused:

I did not call them sane, did i? :D

lbb
12-19-2013, 08:57 AM
Sticking out or not, a judo/karate-style belt under an hakama is silly. Period.

A belt doesn't make sense, but pants under a hakama does? I dunno. When I did shindo muso, we wore a blue keikogi, black belt (everyone), and black hakama. No pants. When I did karate, we wore white keikogi, white pants, and belt of whatever color. Now that I do aikido, we wear white keikogi, white pants, white or black belt, and some wear hakama in addition. If you want to judge any of it as "silly", why not judge ALL of it as "silly"? Or why not just leave the judgment aside and get on with it? If the clothing isn't particularly functional, surely the judgmentalism is even less so.

Dan Richards
12-19-2013, 11:31 AM
I was watching a few videos and I have noticed that some people like to have their rank belt sticking out of the side of their kakama. I am the only person who thinks this looks silly?

Sounds like students of this man. I'm one of them. We're all silly.

http://blog.aikidojournal.com/media/shoji-nishio-book-preface.jpg

Keith Larman
12-19-2013, 12:12 PM
Well, I think people who wear dress shoes look silly. And ties -- what the hell are those things for anyway? And don't get me started on bow ties...

Keith Larman
12-19-2013, 12:18 PM
And half the stuff women wear remind me of ancient torture devices... Pointy shoes with tall but thin heels, skirts that seem to cut off circulation and they can't even walk in let alone sit down normally, and some weird undergarment called spanx that appear to be designed to raise blood pressure to dangerous levels. Honestly, am I the only one who thinks these things look silly? Give me jeans, a t-shirt and comfy shoes any day..

And what the hell is that colored stuff many women paint themselves with every day? Lord... Smearing paint on your face? That can't be healthy...

And to put in the final straw for me, I was at a shop and noticed a device with a long handle made for men so they could shave their backs... I'm pretty sure that if hair is growing out of something, it's *supposed* to be there.

Sigh. To be back in a time when stuff was "real" and not this pretentious stuff. You know, ZOOT SUITS!!!!!! Yeah, that's the ticket!!!! Give me some skin, baby!

Janet Rosen
12-19-2013, 05:57 PM
Sigh. To be back in a time when stuff was "real" and not this pretentious stuff. You know, ZOOT SUITS!!!!!! Yeah, that's the ticket!!!! Give me some skin, baby!

OOOH I'd love to train in a zoot suit, esp. with a long chain....:D

Michael Hackett
12-19-2013, 07:23 PM
Man, someone wearing his belt exposed just absolutely ruins the quality of my life, the life of my family and loved ones, and completely denigrates the community I live in. Terrible, just terrible.

Keith Larman
12-19-2013, 08:19 PM
OOOH I'd love to train in a zoot suit, esp. with a long chain....:D

Well, this swell guy is the bee's knees. His suit is going to hit on all the sixes. Ab-so-lutely the cat's meow... And from the rest of the cartoon, well, his ukemi is nifty!

Janet Rosen
12-20-2013, 12:43 AM
Well, this swell guy is the bee's knees. His suit is going to hit on all the sixes. Ab-so-lutely the cat's meow... And from the rest of the cartoon, well, his ukemi is nifty!

That would be SOOOOO cool over a striped hakama....

Demetrio Cereijo
12-20-2013, 07:09 AM
Well, I think people who wear dress shoes look silly. And ties -- what the hell are those things for anyway? And don't get me started on bow ties...

Damn hippies.

:D

Dave Gallagher
12-21-2013, 01:09 AM
Not necessarily, if you ask my own personal experience. Can be a matter of ergonomic acquaintance!
Without a belt under it, my hakama would just fly away each time my teacher throws me around. The only way to keep my hakama close to me is to tie it's belts around and through my inside belt. Tried all the other ways around and nothing works. Tying the hakama belts alone around my iliac bones creates pain than i cannot withstand.
So it always comes down to very personal somatic and psychic comfort, i reckon.
:)

....This sounds strange and I don't know what health problem causes this. In most koryu and some modern budo like Kendo no one wears a rank belt. If it's a true koryu it does not use the dan system.
For Kendo we just have the dogi and hakama and no pants. It was the same when I trained in Shindo Muso Ryu Jodo.
I never heard of anyone in Aikido who could not keep a hakama on without louping through a rank belt. First time for everything. I assume you have seen a doctor for your painful condition. At least you can do Aikido. I wish you well on that painful condition.

lbb
12-23-2013, 07:11 AM
I never heard of anyone in Aikido who could not keep a hakama on without louping through a rank belt. First time for everything.

I guess there is, and a second, because this is also how I tie my hakama for aikido. In Shindo Muso there isn't any need, but in aikido it definitely helps keep things in place.

Keith Larman
12-23-2013, 09:45 AM
I actually did the super scientific thing of actually paying attention the last time I went to a class full of yudansha and instructors. Most had the belts fairly well concealed inside the hakama (or none at all possibly). A few had bits and pieces sticking out. Me, it tends to stay under the hakama. However, I'll also admit to occasionally not bothering with the belt as the hakama works fine stand alone depending on what I'm doing. Sometimes if I'm teaching a simple weapons class going through some of our forms I'll leave it off. Other times I wear it. Heck, I've had time when I forgot my belt at home and worn one of the 8 zillion white belts that we have on the shelf. Or times I've forgotten the belt and worn no belt.

Dave Gallagher
12-24-2013, 10:03 PM
I think this sums up the belt issue:

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a134/GallagherDave/Samu_zps9ece4d88.jpg

lbb
12-25-2013, 10:26 AM
I think this sums up the belt issue:

If you say so. But why is it an issue for you? Seriously, throughout this whole thread, all I've been able to think is, "Why is this a thing?"

Dave Gallagher
12-25-2013, 04:42 PM
Mary, Must you take things so serious? I only asked if anyone else thought it was silly. The replies have been pretty good with people giving their take on this. My last post on this is just humour.

lbb
12-26-2013, 12:27 PM
Hm. Me so serious? Well, honestly, I'd have said this was a case of the pot calling the kettle black. I thought the simple fact of raising the question would indicate an unusual level of concern with the matter, but if you say otherwise, I take your word for it.

LuvAikido
12-26-2013, 03:54 PM
Hm.the pot calling the kettle black.

Hehehe I like that one!

Dave Gallagher
12-26-2013, 08:30 PM
It was a simple question. It got some not so simple replies. Sometimes people think to much about the question and not enough about the answers. It was not meant to be so deep.

Ethan Weisgard
01-15-2014, 09:17 AM
I like the question :-)
I remember in Iwama that Saito Sensei was not happy with the people coming from other dojos with their belts sticking out.
I have also heard Isoyama Sensei speak about matters concerning proper dojo attire. He is very strict about not having your sleeves rolled up, making sure that your hakama straps do not hang down in front and in general making sure that you are properly dressed. He makes a point about if you buy a suit, you make sure to have it fit so that the length of the sleeves is correct, the pants' length fits as well and so on. He says that your aikido apparel should be considered in the same manner.
Now in Denmark, the other large group of dojos is in the Nishio Sensei lineage, and Nishio Sensei wore his belt with the ends out - as someone posted a picture of. This group abides by the traditions that Nishio Sensei stood for, and that is the way it should be. To each his own. I believe you should follow the guidelines of your Sensei, just as in regard to everything else, be it technique, reigi etc.

Now, how about the question of the camouflague hakamas... ;-)

Rob Watson
01-15-2014, 11:26 AM
I like the question :-)

Now, how about the question of the camouflague hakamas... ;-)

Actually, I've seen one. A certain person in Concord California has been known to sport one on occasion. Damned silly if you ask me but I think that is the response he was gong for.