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Daddaroo
10-07-2013, 08:49 PM
This Sensei I know, has a number of levels (Dans), has owned and still does own, Dojo's and is obviously a Master and a Teacher.

This Sensei is well known internationally.

This Sensei drank so much, the liver is ruined.

This Sensei "ran away" and hides, requiring another "friend" Sensei to camouflage the conditions and crimes.

This Sensei abused another who was obviously less skilled, to a point the "victim" could have been treated in a hospital. The Sensei would have been immediately arrested by any authority of any land and punished.

This Sensei's level of responsibility is such that he blamed the victim, saying such, "Look at what you made me do!" when the victim, clearly, couldn't have come close to offending this Sensei.

I'd like to know if people who study Aikido, cover eac h other's ass, or, is their a place one can go to blow a whistle.

Please help. This is all true.

Daddaroo

Janet Rosen
10-08-2013, 12:38 AM
If there is a crime to report, you call the police.

If the person is a member of a particular aikido organization and you have evidence of clearly unethical behavior, you can report what you know to a ranking person of that larger organization- the head of the organization or the secretary, etc.

However...
A person who has "ruined" his liver has not broken any laws or necessarily harmed anybody other then him or herself. Don't think it's proper? Then don't train under the person.

A victim who "could" go to the hospital? People "can" go the hospital if they accidentally sprain a wrist in a badly applied nikkyo. Did the injured person seek treatment, stop training, report the incident to either the police or another person in authority? If not, is it your place to?

Not denying your experience, just trying to examine perspective and clarify what you are seeking from this site.

sakumeikan
10-08-2013, 01:47 AM
This Sensei I know, has a number of levels (Dans), has owned and still does own, Dojo's and is obviously a Master and a Teacher.

This Sensei is well known internationally.

This Sensei drank so much, the liver is ruined.

This Sensei "ran away" and hides, requiring another "friend" Sensei to camouflage the conditions and crimes.

This Sensei abused another who was obviously less skilled, to a point the "victim" could have been treated in a hospital. The Sensei would have been immediately arrested by any authority of any land and punished.

This Sensei's level of responsibility is such that he blamed the victim, saying such, "Look at what you made me do!" when the victim, clearly, couldn't have come close to offending this Sensei.

I'd like to know if people who study Aikido, cover eac h other's ass, or, is their a place one can go to blow a whistle.

Please help. This is all true.

Daddar
oo
Dear Robert,
First things first.1.The Sensei ruining his liver.Thats his choice.You might think this is not something a sensei should do , but thats your own view.This point is not you affair.
2.How do you define abuse? You state the sensei abused a student .Did the student lodge a complaint , phone the police or take any legal action of any sort? Did the student walk off the mat?
If not , again, while I realise your concern for others, I think its not your responsibility .Each person doing Aikido gets thrown around and their bodies can be put through a bit of pain at times.Each person can choose whether or not to accept or reject what is being done to them by a teacher.
3.What do you mean by the Sensei running away , to hide his condition and crimes?Has the Sensei been charged by the police for assault? Are there charges pending? Has the victim [the student ] taken any action of any sort against the teacher? If not the teacher is not a criminal .He might well be insensitive to his student but is this criminal? If the Sensei has got liver damage, i see no reason why he cannot ask another Sensei to take on his workload if he is feeling poorly.apart from that the deputy 'friend'Sensei could refuse to 'cover up 'for the Sensei in question.
4.The phrase 'Look what you made me do'. How many times do people say this.I say it all the time to my missus when I mess up with something. Sounds like the sensei may well have felt a bit of guilt , and tried to shift the blame .On this part I do agree that one would expect a sensei to act more honourably.
Cover ups?Cover ups take place in every walk of life? If someone makes a blunder of gigantic proportions, do the people who make the blunder accept responsibility?Do politicians accept the blame for messing up , starting wars, getting the economy into trouble?No , the politicians blame everybody but themselves.So whats new?? Pass the parcel is standard procedure when mistakes are made.Sad but true.Not many people nowadays in authority positions put their hands up and say, 'I /We dropped a clanger /F.....d up'.
Who do you run to to report what your talking about? I think you would have a hard time proving that a crime had been done.Has the group got an Statement of Ethics policy? If so refer the actions of the Sensei to the guys who are in charge of this section and see what transpires.Then again if the student is not complaining I think you [assuming you made the complaint on behalf of the student ] you would get no where.
Just my views here. The line between hard /severe practice and assault imo can be quite thin on the odd occasion.
Cheers, Joe

Daddaroo
10-08-2013, 04:09 AM
This great man, this Sensei doesn't need the police. He needs a friend. Some one that has authority over him within the international Aikido assembly.

I wholeheartedly disagree with the implication this is none of my business, nor yours. It is ours.

I would be happy to send some credentials if you give me yours and a resume if you use one, or a friend I can ask about you.

Daddaroo

robin_jet_alt
10-08-2013, 07:37 AM
If you are looking for someone with authority over him, you would need to tell us what organization(s) he belongs to. No point asking a Yoshinkan person to do something about a Ki Society sensei, for instance.

Alex Megann
10-08-2013, 08:13 AM
This great man, this Sensei doesn't need the police. He needs a friend. Some one that has authority over him within the international Aikido assembly.
Daddaroo

I would echo what Robin said - there is no such thing as (and never has been) any "international Aikido assembly". I don't think that it is the place of anyone on this forum to pull rank on your teacher. This should come from your own organisation.

Alex

lbb
10-08-2013, 08:21 AM
This great man, this Sensei doesn't need the police. He needs a friend. Some one that has authority over him within the international Aikido assembly.

Those are two different things. Maybe this person needs both. However, we, your audience are neither.

Also, you are surely aware that there is no such organization as "the international Aikido assembly", right? Or perhaps not - you list your dojo as "DNA". Do you train, and simply don't want to disclose your dojo?

I wholeheartedly disagree with the implication this is none of my business, nor yours. It is ours.

Since I have no idea who you're talking about, and know nothing about his actions apart from your vague allegations, I fail to see how it can be my business.

I'm also puzzled why you posted this in the Introductions section, but I expect Jun will take care of that.

Janet Rosen
10-08-2013, 02:50 PM
If he is within an organization like the Yoshinkan, Seidokan, one of the various Aikikai organizations like CAA or ASU or USAF or Birankai or whatever, there is a person in charge of the organization.

There is no unified body over all of aikido. There are individual associations. If this person is in independent, non-affiliated person then there is no recourse within any association.

Not sure why you don't know this or who/how to find this person's affiliation.

Bill Danosky
10-08-2013, 09:50 PM
You could start a thread on Aikiweb and try to ruin his reputation. Assuming everyone can figure out who you mean. Seriously, we have dojo search, showing all of 3 studios in Eugene, OR. I'm going to guess this has already blown up in your face.

Daddaroo
10-08-2013, 11:17 PM
Mary, I'm sorry, I did post this in the Intro section. Funny. It was a mistake.

I tried to fix this by writing his "Seniors" in Japan, I think I said. Joined here hoping I might get a reference or direction. I'm not asking anyone to do something except chat.

When I spoke of an assembly I surely didn't mean an "institutionalized, established, legal" assembly. I'd say all Aiki in the US could be considered one.

But thank you so much. I have no doubt I'll find someone who'll listen, take my info (name, salient info, other stuff), get some one to go and take this man's hand. I won't let him go to waste. That'd be silly. I don't mind being a "No One" who needs help.

Daddaroo
10-08-2013, 11:19 PM
We could do that, possibly. I'll get back to you Kind Sir.

Daddaroo
10-08-2013, 11:24 PM
Pull rank on a teacher? That's hilarious, can you imagine?

Is that what you thought I was doing?

I thought I was trying to get help for a great man who may be too proud to ask for it himself.

Pull rank on my friend? There's really not too many who could do that in this world and surely none here. You might know where though, or have a clue for me to chase up.

Daddaroo
10-08-2013, 11:29 PM
Mary, if I was hurting and told you that, would you just ignore me? You may have misunderstood the meaning of "Ai" and I'm not embarrassed to tell you to find out that. Please don't argue with me about this. Maybe see what it has to do with this. Can't hurt.

Daddaroo
10-08-2013, 11:36 PM
I'm in the Eugene area. My friend, nor I are not members of any of these Dojos.

Once again, the idea of doing a humanitarian honest thing to benefit a person even you would admire, would cause such an attack; an explosion in my face {that's dramatic}, I find funny.

Is that something that normally occurs to you, acting out of love and it blows up in your face? Do your matching opponents or enemies blow up in your face? Seriously, I'd like to know. I'd expect you'd blow up in mine and I suppose that's good to know, aye?

Krystal Locke
10-08-2013, 11:38 PM
I bet he burps, farts, and masturbates, too. Get a rope.

This Sensei I know, has a number of levels (Dans), has owned and still does own, Dojo's and is obviously a Master and a Teacher.

This Sensei is well known internationally.

This Sensei drank so much, the liver is ruined.

This Sensei "ran away" and hides, requiring another "friend" Sensei to camouflage the conditions and crimes.

This Sensei abused another who was obviously less skilled, to a point the "victim" could have been treated in a hospital. The Sensei would have been immediately arrested by any authority of any land and punished.

This Sensei's level of responsibility is such that he blamed the victim, saying such, "Look at what you made me do!" when the victim, clearly, couldn't have come close to offending this Sensei.

I'd like to know if people who study Aikido, cover eac h other's ass, or, is their a place one can go to blow a whistle.

Please help. This is all true.

Daddaroo

Daddaroo
10-08-2013, 11:41 PM
Sorry again, that was you, Janet. Get back to you kind Ms.

Krystal Locke
10-08-2013, 11:43 PM
If you know exactly what this guy need to do to live up to your expectations for an aikido sensei, why dont you go help him?

Mary, I'm sorry, I did post this in the Intro section. Funny. It was a mistake.

I tried to fix this by writing his "Seniors" in Japan, I think I said. Joined here hoping I might get a reference or direction. I'm not asking anyone to do something except chat.

When I spoke of an assembly I surely didn't mean an "institutionalized, established, legal" assembly. I'd say all Aiki in the US could be considered one.

But thank you so much. I have no doubt I'll find someone who'll listen, take my info (name, salient info, other stuff), get some one to go and take this man's hand. I won't let him go to waste. That'd be silly. I don't mind being a "No One" who needs help.

Daddaroo
10-09-2013, 12:23 AM
You're disrespectful. Do you really think one Human wouldn't know that about another?

What do you mean about the rope?

Daddaroo
10-09-2013, 12:27 AM
Is that a question about my morals or abilities? No matter. The answer is none of your business and it's pretty arrogant of you to ask.

You've never trained in Japan, have you?

Daddaroo
10-09-2013, 12:29 AM
"Live up to my expectations". You expect anything of a Sensei and if so, did you make those expectations up or were you taught them?

Michael Hackett
10-09-2013, 01:25 AM
"is their (sic) a place where someone can go to blow the whistle?" That somehow just doesn't sound like a person seeking help for another who is having serious problems, but more like someone trying to cause that person problems - deserved or undeserved. Maybe it is just a language thing, maybe you wrote it too fast, and maybe I just misinterpreted what you were trying to say.

If this instructor is close to you and alcohol is his problem, perhaps contact your local Al-Anon chapter. They usually will have some really good ideas about dealing with an alcoholic and may be of help.

Krystal Locke
10-09-2013, 02:04 AM
I can think of several sensei (including a really really important one) who toasted their livers in one way or another. Is that the basis for you calling this sensei unethical? It is a pretty weak basis, in my opinion. You may as well string that sensei (and a whole lot of other sensei) up for the other completely human and virtually unremarkable things that sensei do.

Disrespectful? You're using an international forum to publicly challenge the ethos of someone you call a friend and I'm disrespectful? You dont want to hurt your friend by getting the police involved, but getting the internet involved is ok?

Why not just freaking talk to your friend? Call him on his bullshit, even if he outranks you. Why not talk to his family if he wont listen? Directly and honestly entering into conflict in order to help someone else, especially someone you care about, is a mark of courage, compassion, strength and kindness. Isn't that what being a martial artist is supposed to be, a person who enters conflict to help others?

You're disrespectful. Do you really think one Human wouldn't know that about another?

What do you mean about the rope?

Krystal Locke
10-09-2013, 02:07 AM
Is that a question about my morals or abilities? No matter. The answer is none of your business and it's pretty arrogant of you to ask.

You've never trained in Japan, have you?

It would really help the convo if you quoted the people you are responding to, so that we know what you are talking about.

What does training in Japan have to do with any of this?

Krystal Locke
10-09-2013, 02:16 AM
Yes. I expect the sensei I choose to train with to be good (better than I am) at the art they are teaching, and to be good at teaching. Pretty tall order, I'm not going to be too uptight about their personal foibles. I will train with the people I want to train with, and that's about as far as it goes.

If I do run up against a sensei whose behavior I cannot tolerate (and I tolerate sensei's flaws exactly as much or as little as I would any other person's) I vote with my feet, notify authorities, or confront the sensei directly. I wouldn't flail about on the world wide web throwing their dirty laundry everywhere for all to see.

"Live up to my expectations". You expect anything of a Sensei and if so, did you make those expectations up or were you taught them?

Daddaroo
10-09-2013, 03:22 AM
I'll see you folks later, maybe.

Michael Hackett
10-09-2013, 11:00 AM
The pot you stirred leaving you with a bitter taste?

Daddaroo
10-09-2013, 11:56 AM
Krystal,

So, correct me if I am wrong KRYSTAL.

You expect me to stick my head in the sand?

You are of the think, getting into one's personals life uninvited is wrong somehow?

I'm ashamed to be in the same room as you K. I'll be leaving very soon, not because of my shame, but because most here are not willing to help a fellow Sensei.

I forgive you, for myself.

I did receive what I came here to get, so this Forum served it's purpose.

If any one here would like to converse further or in the future write: RbrtWlmsn@GMail.com

Daddaroo
10-09-2013, 11:58 AM
MICHAEL,

Is the post about stirring the pot and bitter taste directed to me?

sakumeikan
10-09-2013, 12:18 PM
You could start a thread on Aikiweb and try to ruin his reputation. Assuming everyone can figure out who you mean. Seriously, we have dojo search, showing all of 3 studios in Eugene, OR. I'm going to guess this has already blown up in your face.

Dear Bill,
p
There is a flaw in your proposal that a thread should be started to ruin the reputation of the Sensei on Aikiweb., namely the risk of defamation of somebodys character.Would you risk the possibility of legal action being taken against you , if the name of the sensei was ever revealed?i would not and I think Jun would not be prepared to do as you suggest, at least without real proof.
Cheers, Joe.

Janet Rosen
10-09-2013, 12:35 PM
OK. So the Original Poster states in his first post that the Sensei has bad ethics and so he wants to be a whistleblower to the aikido community. We took him at his word and addressed the issue AS HE RAISED IT. He then says, no, he didn't mean what her wrote; the Sensei is a human being who needs compassion so he is disappointed he didn't find it here....
We were not asked about counseling options, psychosocial support options - NONE of which are germane here and should be addressed with the Sensei and HIS family/community. A public internet forum is NOT the place to seek support for a third party's personal/substance/psychological problems.
We were asked about "blowing the whistle" on unethical behavior. We can only respond based on the information given.

lbb
10-09-2013, 01:10 PM
Krystal,

So, correct me if I am wrong KRYSTAL.

You expect me to stick my head in the sand?

You are of the think, getting into one's personals life uninvited is wrong somehow?

Sticking my oar in here -- when someone is engaged in self-destructive behavior (for example, substance abuse), and does not acknowledge the problem/is not seeking help, there's an action that can be attempted, called an intervention. There are mental health professionals who participate in this forum and who can speak much more knowledgeably about interventions (my only knowledge is the hard-knocks kind you get from participating in them), but I think I'm correct in stating the following about interventions:

An intervention is done by friends, family and (possibly) other people who have some kind of personal connection with the affected individual. That connection is essential; an intervention can't be done by strangers.
The goal of an intervention is not to fix the affected individual's problem, but to convince them to seek help in fixing it. Other people cannot fix these problems; the affected person must do the fixing, others can only support.


No one "expects" you to do anything, or to not do anything. If you believe an intervention is called for, I'd suggest learning all you can about how to conduct a successful intervention, and enlist the help of others who also have a personal connection to this individual. That would give you the best chance for success at what you claim you want to accomplish.


I'm ashamed to be in the same room as you K. I'll be leaving very soon, not because of my shame, but because most here are not willing to help a fellow Sensei.

I forgive you, for myself.

That's the most maladroit attempt at child psychology and emotional blackmail that I've seen in some time.

Krystal Locke
10-09-2013, 01:35 PM
Ok, answer this question first, please. Is English your native language? Oh, and is this problem really happening to someone you know, or are you trying to work your stuff out through a hypothetical proxy? You are not consistent with describing the problem, and that makes it sound like you are trying to cover something up. That wont help you fix your problem. Yes, it is your problem, you are bringing it the internet.

Yes, I will be correcting you. I am advocating that you either step up and deal directly with your problems with this person, or you get him professional help. What you are doing right now is wringing your hands and spreading someone you care about's dirty laundry around the aikido community. That is not cool.

You need to be clear what, exactly, you think sensei's/friend's/your actual ethical problem is. Is it the alcohol, the hurting someone, the withdrawing from aikido? Is it a habitual thing, or an isolated incident? Are the problems recent, emergent, or in the past? Is it something you can do anything about? Is it a problem you need to do something about?

Yes, I think that getting into someone else's personal life is wrong somehow. And I think it is somehow right and necessary sometimes. Intervention is fraught with all sorts of danger. Posting here is not intervention.

I expect that someone with aikido experience will learn to choose their battles. You are right in the middle of getting that lesson, and you have several people here who are telling you that you are on the edge of some big mistakes. You really want to get your story straight and clear before you start asking for strangers' advice.

Well, it is a good thing that you are not in the same room as I am, then. Dont like the answers to the questions you ask? Ask different questions, or, just maybe, learn from the answers you are given. I'm not sorry that I am not coddling you about this garbled, unintelligible problem you have dumped here, and I have no idea why you would be ashamed about the things I say. Why bother with forgiveness? Is it a sin on my part to tell you what I think?

We're all busy rescuing our own sensei... Good thing the martial arts masters have all these students to save them from themselves.

So you got what you came for, I'm curious to know what that is.

So, correct me if I am wrong KRYSTAL.

You expect me to stick my head in the sand?

You are of the think, getting into one's personals life uninvited is wrong somehow?

I'm ashamed to be in the same room as you K. I'll be leaving very soon, not because of my shame, but because most here are not willing to help a fellow Sensei.

I forgive you, for myself.

I did receive what I came here to get, so this Forum served it's purpose.

If any one here would like to converse further or in the future write: RbrtWlmsn@GMail.com

Michael Hackett
10-09-2013, 02:22 PM
ROBERT, yes, that was directed to you. You described a situation in a relatively unclear manner and asked for advice. People started giving you advice based entirely on what you described and you clearly began taking offense. Then you changed the description of the scenario significantly and appeared to become even more offended to the point where you suggested you were going to leave the discussion. Several people gave you advice that could prove helpful - myself included and now you appear angry, or at least disappointed.

I understand both ethical and unethical behavior.
I understand substance abuse.
I understand violence.
I understand abuse based on power.
I understand what whistleblowing is, both in spirit and by legal definition.
I understand human frailty.
I DON'T understand the situation you keep describing differently.
I DON'T understand your apparent anger and disappointment.

Good luck with whatever it is you are trying to address.

Bill Danosky
10-09-2013, 02:59 PM
Dear Bill,
p
There is a flaw in your proposal that a thread should be started to ruin the reputation of the Sensei on Aikiweb., namely the risk of defamation of somebodys character.Would you risk the possibility of legal action being taken against you , if the name of the sensei was ever revealed?i would not and I think Jun would not be prepared to do as you suggest, at least without real proof.
Cheers, Joe.

C'mon, Joe. The guy had already done exactly that and I was sarcastically pointing out how many people will be able to figure out who he's talking about, go tell them and cause a $h!+ storm in Eugene, OR.

Give a guy some credit!

Bill Danosky
10-09-2013, 03:34 PM
We're all busy rescuing our own sensei... Good thing the martial arts masters have all these students to save them from themselves.


Best quote in the thread?

BEleanor
10-09-2013, 04:03 PM
Hi,

I trained in Eugene for a number of years, and I don't think whoever this is can be talking about anyone there. There is no one even remotely fitting this description in Eugene, that I know of. The OP even said so, I think. The aikido community in Eugene is remarkably clean-living, hard-working, harmonious and peaceable, unless things there have changed a lot in a very short time :) Some great aikido too.

B

akiy
10-09-2013, 08:27 PM
At this point, I don't see this discussion going anywhere positive. There are a lot of good suggestions in the thread that I believe applies to the original poster's intentions.

Thread closed.

-- Jun