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ChrisMikk
09-25-2013, 08:20 AM
Ivan raises a good question in another thread...
Why aikido Yoshinkan practitioners often are aggressive in discussion?

I think it's true. Do Yoshinkan people have a chip on their shoulder as the red-headed aikido step-child? Does the style attract all the XYY chromosome aikido people? What's the answer?

lbb
09-25-2013, 08:27 AM
I'm wondering how y'all know who is and isn't a Yoshinkan practitioner. Do they all have some kind of flaming YOSHINKAN .sig in their posts that I've been missing? Or do you need the special I-can-see-the-chip-on-your-shoulder-AND-your-XYY-chromosome glasses to see it?

ChrisMikk
09-25-2013, 08:55 AM
I'm wondering how y'all know who is and isn't a Yoshinkan practitioner.

Sometimes it is in the signature, yes. Ivan was responding to someone who self-identified as a Yoshinkan practitioner. Several do. More to the point, of the ones that do self-identify, many seem to be aggressive. As, for example, the following...

"An attacker would have hate and anger whilst he/she attacked you, yes? aikido teaches balance, so to keep the balance you need to kill them with friendship or forgiveness"
...
OSU!

The OSU is a giveaway, too. BTW, I'm Yoshinkan. We do some military-style ceremonies and say OSU a lot and there's some macho talk and attitude, but in general when I hear talk of killing or fighting, I don't see my dojo in the posters.

Bill Danosky
09-25-2013, 12:15 PM
IMO, it's because Yoshinkan practitioners are MARTIAL artists, and we (annoyingly, it seems) insist that Aikido is a MARTIAL art. Aikido does not require us to be passive. Hopefully, AikiWeb is the same way.

Bill Danosky
09-25-2013, 12:21 PM
Ivan raises a good question in another thread...

I think it's true. Do Yoshinkan people have a chip on their shoulder as the red-headed aikido step-child? Does the style attract all the XYY chromosome aikido people? What's the answer?

You must feel comfortable with your training if you're openly insulting people's genetics. Particularly if you're going to generalize like that. I take exception.

Dan Rubin
09-25-2013, 12:37 PM
There's a big difference between "kill them with friendship or forgiveness" and "kill them, but with friendship or forgiveness."

bkedelen
09-25-2013, 01:04 PM
Bill you've got the FNG thing bad my friend. You need to get that looked at by a professional.

I love your passion. Believe me I've been there. Just remember that nobody here agrees on anything, but a lack of validation does not actually damage your position or your practice.

Bill Danosky
09-25-2013, 01:44 PM
Not sure what the "FNG thing" is, but if I have it bad I probably enjoy it. If everyone agreed with me there would be no discussion, which is all I'm after. Shame on me if I have to get my validation on the internet.

Just the same, this "Yoshi Orcs are mean" thread exists because the truth I'm telling is disturbing people it applies to. Don't hate the messenger.

kivawolfspeaker
09-25-2013, 02:08 PM
There's a big difference between "kill them with friendship or forgiveness" and "kill them, but with friendship or forgiveness."

Yes! It's the "can you take a life, but with compassion for the life you'd be taking should it become necessary?" question.

lbb
09-25-2013, 02:28 PM
Just the same, this "Yoshi Orcs are mean" thread exists because the truth I'm telling is disturbing people it applies to. Don't hate the messenger.

No it doesn't. It exists because you sat down at a computer keyboard and created it. Don't blame your actions on other people; own them.

bkedelen
09-25-2013, 02:37 PM
But ... he's just the messenger, and subject to all traditional rights thereto. I, for one, think a John the Baptist style welcome is in order.

That said, the original John the Baptist still managed to kick off the nearly world-ending multi-millenium catastrophe that is christendom, so maybe Bill is on to something with Yoshinkan?

Note that I am just being silly here. Bill is actually a lot better guy than anyone from the origins of christianity, so we should not in any way remove his head.

tarik
09-25-2013, 04:14 PM
Ivan raises a good question in another thread...

I think it's true. Do Yoshinkan people have a chip on their shoulder as the red-headed aikido step-child? Does the style attract all the XYY chromosome aikido people? What's the answer?

It's simply a defense mechanism because Yoshinkan people are pansies on the mat. :straightf

Keith Larman
09-25-2013, 04:31 PM
Bill, is that an accurate representation of your style's take on these issues? Or your sensei's? Or just your opinion from your experiences?

Bill Danosky
09-25-2013, 04:41 PM
Hey, my waza works, and I have proven it on a couple of occasions. So I am not vulnerable to words. I feel strongly enough about my views that I am perfectly willing to stand in the fire and defend them, and I believe martial effectiveness is a positive and beneficial topic. But if anyone else wants to resort to personal attacks I prefer they do it in person.

Bill Danosky
09-25-2013, 04:47 PM
Bill, is that an accurate representation of your style's take on these issues? Or your sensei's? Or just your opinion from your experiences?

As I have said a number of times, "IMO". I am certainly not speaking for anyone else. My opinion is based on some experiences, however. I can tell you Ude Garami works in the real world, and so does Hiji Shime.

Keith Larman
09-25-2013, 04:49 PM
As I have said a number of times, "IMO". I am certainly not speaking for anyone else. My opinion is based on some experiences, however. I can tell you Ude Garami works in the real world, and so does Hiji Shime.

And others styles don't? You must get around a lot...

bkedelen
09-25-2013, 04:56 PM
I prefer they do it in person.

Bill you sound like you are about to ask someone to fight you behind the bike rack after school.

Bill Danosky
09-25-2013, 04:58 PM
Other styles don't... Speak for anyone else? Have experience? Use Ude Garami?

tarik
09-25-2013, 05:01 PM
But if anyone else wants to resort to personal attacks I prefer they do it in person.

Personal attacks?

Bill Danosky
09-25-2013, 05:02 PM
Bill you sound like you are about to ask someone to fight you behind the bike rack after school.

I promise you I am not that type of person. The only times I have been in altercations involved rescuing other people who needed it. But I have a sister with Down's Syndrome, so I don't take chromosomal jokes well. Pansys on the mat? Meh, words.

lbb
09-25-2013, 08:23 PM
Hey, my waza works, and I have proven it on a couple of occasions. So I am not vulnerable to words. I feel strongly enough about my views that I am perfectly willing to stand in the fire and defend them

Fire? Really? This is an internet forum.

OwlMatt
09-25-2013, 08:23 PM
I'm wondering how y'all know who is and isn't a Yoshinkan practitioner. Do they all have some kind of flaming YOSHINKAN .sig in their posts that I've been missing? Or do you need the special I-can-see-the-chip-on-your-shoulder-AND-your-XYY-chromosome glasses to see it?

This thread should have ended right here.

Bill Danosky
09-25-2013, 11:17 PM
This thread should have ended right here.

C'mon, that was a pretty solid 6 hours of entertainment. And it was a slow day at work.

sakumeikan
09-26-2013, 02:03 AM
Hey, my waza works, and I have proven it on a couple of occasions. So I am not vulnerable to words. I feel strongly enough about my views that I am perfectly willing to stand in the fire and defend them, and I believe martial effectiveness is a positive and beneficial topic. But if anyone else wants to resort to personal attacks I prefer they do it in person.

Dear Bill,
So you managed to use a couple of techniques on some guys?Maybe rather than good waza , you just got lucky or the opposition was poor?In my view no matter how good you think you are there is always someone bigger , stronger , meaner and faster than oneself.rather than use brawn ,I prefer using my brain.Rather than get to a point where fisticuffs are resorted to , get the hell out of the situation beforehand.Prancing around in exotic Japanese outfits,doing ude garami or some strangles for example does not mean you/any body else, will not take second prize should you encounter a guy who is equipped with more ammo than you.Let common sense prevail,not force.Cheers, Joe.
Ps Just in case you think I am a wimpy sort of chap I have also used aikido in confrontations in the past.I much prefer being friendly rather than having a macho image.

Walter Martindale
09-26-2013, 05:23 AM
Well... I've been at Aikikai schools almost esclusively. Depending on the dojo, the martial aspect gets more or less emphasis. The late Kawahara shihan wasn't a sweetness and light kinda guy, and tolerated flowery stuff very poorly. Izumi (Hiroaki) also deceased included in his classes how to use the knife, as well as how to take it away - how to not lose the pistol, as well as how to take it away - how to throw in such a way that uke is less likely to get back up soon, and how to throw in less harmful ways. What difference I noted between a Yoshinkan dojo and the Aikikai with which I was familiar was the more regimented training at entry levels. However after nidan I couldn't tell the difference by looking at the movements.

tarik
09-26-2013, 09:52 AM
C'mon, that was a pretty solid 6 hours of entertainment. And it was a slow day at work.

I was entertained. :straightf

akiy
09-26-2013, 03:26 PM
HI folks,

Please stay away from "(my|your) (style|organization|approach) (of aikido)? is (better/worse) than (yours|mine|others)" type of discussions here on AikiWeb. Thank you.

Thread closed.

-- Jun