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DTML
06-05-2013, 09:10 PM
Hello Everyone,

I have Karate background and have only recently started training in Aikido. I noticed that many students in the dojo tie their obi in different ways but there is doesn't appear to be a consistent approach.

:confused:

I decided to do some research on line and found numerous videos/articles on the subject, and that is how I discovered this forum.

So, my fellow aikido practitioners, I thought I would find out what your thoughts/opinions are on this matter!?

Thanks in Advance,
DTML

Malicat
06-05-2013, 09:24 PM
Hello Everyone,

I have Karate background and have only recently started training in Aikido. I noticed that many students in the dojo tie their obi in different ways but there is doesn't appear to be a consistent approach.

:confused:

I decided to do some research on line and found numerous videos/articles on the subject, and that is how I discovered this forum.

So, my fellow aikido practitioners, I thought I would find out what your thoughts/opinions are on this matter!?

Thanks in Advance,
DTML

I also have a karate background, and I put the center of the belt at my one point, and then simultaneously wrap both ends behind me and back to the front. Many of my fellow Aikido students put one end of the belt at their center and wrap it all the way around until it comes back to the front, and then shift it over so they have two ends left they can tie.

I find that version inefficient and will happily continue to tie my belt the way I always have. :)

--Ashley

Janet Rosen
06-05-2013, 11:31 PM
Anyway it stays secure and your teacher doesn't laugh at you :-)

Millsy
06-05-2013, 11:34 PM
The way sensei tells you to :) I think there are a number of ways that vary from dojo to dojo but generally I think you want a reef knot not a granny knot as it holds better.

To throw into the mix I found this link. This is how the Yuishinkai handbook tells us to tie it. It seems to have a couple of advantages to the karate tie above (which I tend to do with the hakama on) , first you don't get the belt crossing at the back which has the potential to cause problems on a roll or fall. Secondly with the ends passing through between the two layers of belt that gives a stronger hold. Specially so with those stiff white belts beginners start with, I find this holds pretty well and no potential twist at the back.

http://www.aikidoyuishinkaialkmaar.nl/hoe-knoop-je-de-aikido-band/

lbb
06-06-2013, 08:19 AM
I just tie it the same way I did in my old Shotokan dojo. By the way, Tony, there was never any "crossing at the back" in my old dojo, but I do see quite a lot of it in aikido circles -- the result, I think, of trying to wrap around both sides at once.

JJF
06-06-2013, 09:22 AM
Google is your friend... I used to find the middle and cross on the back, but now I do some thing close to this: http://duvalltkd.com/belts/

PeterR
06-06-2013, 10:20 AM
Staples

Rob Watson
06-06-2013, 10:28 AM
Generally it goes around the waist/hips area. Velcro simplifies things ....

Malicat
06-06-2013, 11:32 AM
Generally it goes around the waist/hips area. Velcro simplifies things ....

Rob wins the internet for the day with that one!

Marc Abrams
06-06-2013, 02:55 PM
Tie it so this does not happen....

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504784_162-20045886-10391705.html

:eek:

Marc Abrams

Xanth
06-06-2013, 03:18 PM
Try this, very different from what I did in Tae Kwon Do and Kuk Sool Won.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tW4JbTAAPw8&list=WLC18A8143D6268EED

DTML
06-07-2013, 12:37 AM
Thank-you all for your input/links...etc.

Tony - you are correct when you say "The way sensei tells you," but I wanted to investigate a bit on my own before asking.

Ashley - I have always tied it like you (i.e. "I put the center of the belt at my one point...etc") and find it the easiest to align the ends evenly in this fashion.

As the "crossing at the back" seems to be inherent to those who don't care if it crosses or not (I for one have always hated that - feels bulky for karate, and with all the rolling in aikido I don't think it is a good idea).

All - the "end knot" is really the information I was seeking out.

The typical square Karate knot doesn't seem to be a smart idea especially when being thrown/pinned on your stomach regularly as it presses into your abdomen!! I found what is known as a 'butterfly' fold (not a knot) and have tried it out for the past week in class. Not only is it easier on your belly during ground work, but it also doesn't seem to unravel and need tightening/adjusting throughout class!!

Cheers, DTML

Malicat
06-07-2013, 04:38 AM
Thank-you all for your input/links...etc.

Tony - you are correct when you say "The way sensei tells you," but I wanted to investigate a bit on my own before asking.

Ashley - I have always tied it like you (i.e. "I put the center of the belt at my one point...etc") and find it the easiest to align the ends evenly in this fashion.

As the "crossing at the back" seems to be inherent to those who don't care if it crosses or not (I for one have always hated that - feels bulky for karate, and with all the rolling in aikido I don't think it is a good idea).

All - the "end knot" is really the information I was seeking out.

The typical square Karate knot doesn't seem to be a smart idea especially when being thrown/pinned on your stomach regularly as it presses into your abdomen!! I found what is known as a 'butterfly' fold (not a knot) and have tried it out for the past week in class. Not only is it easier on your belly during ground work, but it also doesn't seem to unravel and need tightening/adjusting throughout class!!

Cheers, DTML

I too have never had the issue with crossing at the back. But I am very specific when I put on my gi, and rarely have wardrobe malfunctions of even a minor variety. I'm curious if you're wearing a hakama yet though Diane. I would be willing to try an easier knot in terms of getting pinned, but my hakama is also one of the things I am fussy about, and I am worried that the lack of a solid knot will make it easier for the hakama to get messed up.

--Ashley

phitruong
06-07-2013, 12:35 PM
something like this http://global.rakuten.com/en/store/baby-hakama/item/10000003/ :D

Janet Rosen
06-07-2013, 02:58 PM
something like this http://global.rakuten.com/en/store/baby-hakama/item/10000003/ :D

"for children of the wrapper woman" Yeah!

jss
06-07-2013, 05:15 PM
BJJ, not aikido, but presents several options: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-shq5oDSCs4

p.s.: You don't really need the Hollywood method to avoid the ugly crossing at the back, I just start with the center of the belt in the middle and tug one side under the other one at the moment they cross.

mastermeindl
06-08-2013, 01:31 AM
The method/link that Tony Mills (#post327175) provided is the method I've used for the past 6 years. I don't think you're going to find a "proper" way, though. You want the belt to lie flat at the back, stay tied and look more or less symmetrical. I've seen a lot of variations that achieve these three basic characteristics. I'm sure they're all equally valid.

Xanth
06-08-2013, 10:59 PM
Found another one, this one is nice, it's called the butterfly fold and although looks like a square not, it's flatter and stays together better.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2YWusSN5uw

DTML
07-10-2013, 11:41 PM
Ashley:
>>I'm curious if you're wearing a hakama yet though Diane.
No, in our dojo only the black belts wear the hakama(s).

>>I would be willing to try an easier knot in terms of getting pinned,
>>...
>>worried that the lack of a solid knot will make it easier for the hakama to get messed up.
All I can suggest is that you give it a try, not sure that it will work for the hakama...it definitely did for just the dogi.

DTML
07-10-2013, 11:59 PM
The u-tube that Joep Schuurkes suggested (by the Rener Gracie) is a good presentation. The "butterfly" fold that I discovered during my research and have been using ever since, is the one referred to as the "super lock variation" by Gracie.

It is excellent and takes a lot of work to become undone!! Give it a try, you'll be pleasantly please to not be constantly tightening your belt during class!!

Mario Tobias
07-11-2013, 08:24 AM
Hi,

I had this problem for the longest time where my obi was being undone during every class. very embarassing. Once I had my belt undone during grading. I found a very secure way to tie the obi and never had the problem again.

A. I found a secret to avoid crossing at the back.

1. find the middle of the belt
2. place middle of belt in hara
3. wrap around once. here you would have 2 layers with the belt ends on TOP of the 1st wrapped layer.
4. the RIGHT belt end (which is on now on top), put it underneath the 2nd layer. so the right belt end would now be underneath as the 2nd layer and the 2nd layer would now be on top.
5. adjust the back so both layers are flush.(ie no cross)
6. insert LEFT belt end underneath the right 2 layers to prepare for knot.

B. Special knot.

1. you have the left belt end now sticking on top of your right side now after doing A. and right belt end sticking below to your left.
2. create an OPEN loop by returning Left belt end and inserting it in the middle of 2 belt layers towards the left. The loop should be wide enough for you to insert the right belt end.
3. Insert the right belt end in the open loop you created but you also need to insert this end between the 2 belt layers towards the right as you close the knot.
4. Tighten the knot. The 2 belt ends would now be sandwiched between the 2 belt layers plus they are supported by a knot.

enjoy.

Mario Tobias
07-11-2013, 08:28 AM
Looks like I discovered the "super lock" variation by myself. This is the one I use.

cheers,

Marc Abrams
07-11-2013, 09:44 AM
This tie is very secure!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOhbkuZ-ObA

:D

Marc Abrams

Edgecrusher
08-22-2013, 12:31 PM
whatever way it stays secure and/or whichever way your instructor tells you. Since you comes from another discipline, they may think you know already know how.

barron
08-25-2013, 03:27 PM
Ask Steve Sensei.
I've visited many dojos and been to a lot of seminars and I remember Asai Sensei from Germany saying, and I paraphrase, "At this seminar you do the techniques the way I demonstrate and when you go back to your dojo you do it he way your sensei asks."