Koryu

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[Lorien Lowe]

A bit of googling has previously inclined me to think that this term meant 'traditional' in the sense of bows, garments, spiritual and personal development vs. a focus on winning fights, etc - and I had thought that, therefore, it applied to aikido in general. However, a poster with a good background to know better said in a recent thread that 'aikido isn't koryu,' so: just what does 'koryu' mean?

Thanks in advance,
Lorien

[robin_jet_alt]

Koryu doesn't mean traditional, it means 'old' or 'ancient'. A koryu or kobudo is a martial art that has been continued in the same form for a long time (centuries?). Aikido is less than 100 years old.

[Carsten Möllering]

There exist different opinions about how to define koryû correctly.

You can start with a rule of thumb:
Founded before 1868 > koryû
Founded after 1868 > gendai

[phitruong]

There exist different opinions about how to define koryû correctly.

You can start with a rule of thumb:
Founded before 1868 > koryû
Founded after 1868 > gendai

what if it founded on 1868? :) (sorry, my software programming self had to chime in)

[Cliff Judge]

The term means "old flow" or "old transmission." It refers to arts that were founded before the modern period - pre-Meiji, and there must generally be an unbroken succession since that period.

Aikido is not a koryu as it was founded in the modern period. Daito ryu makes some claims that it is a koryu but these are considered to be sort of cultural/mythological claims; regardless of what sources Takeda drew his skills from he is regarded as so singularly important to the art that he is basically considered to be the founder.

What can be said of Aikido is that it preserves many elements of a koryu structure that did not survive in other gendai arts. The cooperative training structure, lack of competitive focus, and most of three combative suppositions on which it Is technically based derive from koryu bujutsu.

David Hall's Encyclopedia of Japanese Martial Arts has a nice entry on koryu. Available wherever good books are sold.

[SeaGrass]

Lorien, check out this link:

http://www.koryu.com/koryu.html

There's quite a bit of info on www.koryu.com

[Tore Eriksson]

what if it founded on 1868? :) (sorry, my software programming self had to chime in)

Just for you, Phi:

Founded before September 8, 1868 > koryu
Founded on or after September 8, 1868 > gendai

[Lorien Lowe]

thanks for the info and links, everyone.

[Rupert Atkinson]

Ko = old
Ryu = style = school

[Carsten Möllering]

Just for you, Phi:

Founded before September 8, 1868 > koryu
Founded on or after September 8, 1868 > gendai

Well ... yes ... but ...

Kawasaki, Japan, September 8th, 1868.
About teatime.
In the garden behind the dôjô.

Hiroshi: "Well, don't you think, we should found a new style? I would really like to be soke."
Daisuke: "Not today so! Not today Hiroshi san. Let's wait until tomorrow and ad a 'dô' ..."

[danj]

Well ... yes ... but ...

Kawasaki, Japan, September 8th, 1868.
About teatime.
In the garden behind the dôjô.

Hiroshi: "Well, don't you think, we should found a new style? I would really like to be soke."
Daisuke: "Not today so! Not today Hiroshi san. Let's wait until tomorrow and ad a 'dô' ..."

d!oh

Loveit!