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SparkErosion
10-15-2012, 12:18 AM
I've been doing aikido now for 6 months, approximately 70 or so hours of practice. I've had major depression my entire life, and I know this is personal, but aikido relaxed me, in times of despair- even when in the past I was considering suicide, my aikido gave me hope. I'm extremes worried I might have a mental collapse, or my depression will worry significantly. I take meds for it, yes, they work, but I'm seeing an orthopedic surgeon soon, the anxiety of possibly never being able to do aikido again frightens me, it feels devestating, not only would my future and passion be gone, I also couldn't defend myself if needed. My mom was a gymnast , a very good one who was trying to reach and compete for the Olympics, she dislocated her shoulder once, and reinsured it 2 more times from trying again to do gymnastics, and had to have surgery and pins and screws in. She can never do gymnastics again. She told me there is the same possibility for me, and I became extremely frustrated and depressed, I was hoping by posting here it might give me some encouragement, maybe some else has had this injury and did aikido again. I may have a level 3 separation level. I'll explain what happened soon, basically I copy and pasted it from explaining it before. No broken bones from the x-ray, but I do have a pretty bad a/c shoulder separation. I'm in a sling and taking many Vicodin a day with almost no pain relief. The pain is severe and constant. I cannot move my arm any, or the pain becomes excruciatingly bad. Getting up and sitting down is also very painful. Carrying anything in my left hand, even a can of diet coke causes a lot of pain. Picking anything up with the right hand that is very light (a couple books), but still painful. I have a large, deformed bump on my left shoulder. I heard a loud crack and pop when the accident happened 2 days ago. Whoever the arm moves any, in the sling, I can hear for whatever reason a audible popping sound. I try to keep it still. Anyway, sorry, that's enough of that. My rolls , kneeling , standing, crossover are all pretty good and silent. I rolled on concrete before standing with no pain or issues. My left side is my better , much better side of rolling forward with, and by all the ukemi I'm only talking about forward rolls, which ironically enough happened on my better left side. I also learned (as our sensei tells us when we're ready to test, we don't ask) after the injury that I was very close to testing for my 5th kyu or yellow belt. We do a one man randori in that test, which as I mention below I did kind of like a mini one the day I got injured, honestly , hope I'm not bragging but I felt happy and pretty proud of myself . Here's the explanation, I'm sorry for all the length and rambling going on here, I'm pretty down right now and hoping someone else has been injured and returned to aikido. Thank you guys so much! Here: I'm seeing an orthopedic surgeon as soon as possible after chandler regional hospital refered me to one. Before class yesterday before the injury, Ashley and Andrew and I practiced kokyunage on me. I had a harder time a little with from the yokomenuchi strike but defending against the grab (on the lapel of the uniform, near the neck) came quickly. I was surprised with myself as Andrew came at me suddenly (grab version) running and I threw him and then unexpected Ashley joined in and ran at me too in the same version of the kokyunage, I took her down too. Then Andrew came again, heh, I messed it up as it was yoko, and rolled the opposite direction away. The weird thing is I didn't really think about the execution of the technique, I had to react and had no time to think! It was a lot of fun and I surprised myself as I didn't think I was capable of doing that. Unfortunately, as I explained on the aikido Facebook page , the first couple versions of the kokyunage Jean showed us to do I really didn't do a forward roll, I was kind of just thrown, more of a "side tumble". However, during the technique when I fell and to injured, they demonstrated the forward roll was necessary. I saw them doing it- but I guess it didn't register as I was being thrown that last time.... For some reason I thought I was more of the tumble like before. Robert threw me with some momentum, and I forgot this, expecting to land kind of on my side like the other falls. I hand my hand out instinctly to do a forward roll, it was on my good side too, my left shoulder, and basically fell vertically straight on the sholder, then tumbled over a bit. I knew something was wrong immediately as I heard it crack/pop , and had instant severe pain. Moving the left arm any, especially up hurt extremely bad. Moving my body also hurts a lot, as well as deeply breathing. One of the black belts, I'm horrible with names, I do apologize, took me to the handle hospital. They did several x rays, and I have a pretty bad A/C sholder seperation. When I move the arm out of the arm sling I was given, I can hear it pop for some reason. There's alot of swelling on the shoulder joint (a/c joint, where the top arm bone, collar bone and shoulder blade meet) and a very large deformed bump , I'm assuming from the seperation. I was told by the doctors there. Probably tore som e tendons and ligaments apart. Ther are different levels of this injury. 1, 2, 3 are most common. 1 is more mild, I'm guessing I might have a 3, as the pain is very severe. The good news is from what I read most don't need surgery, I'll find out on Monday probably if I need surgery with the surgeon. Without surgery, I was told it takes around 6 to 8 weeks to heal, about 4 months to 5 with surgery. It's done with screws or pins. I really am hoping I won't need that. Looking on the bright side, they said I didn't break anything , which is good and would take longer to recover. I'll definitely be back when I'm fully healed. I may need physical therapy , and the bump may not go away. I'm not going to rush it, but either way both surgery or not takes a lot of time heal, half the time I've been doing aikido at least, I'm a bit worried still but trying my best to remain optimistic. When I recover I will definitely probably only roll on my right side / shoulder to begin with and take ill take I extra slow. I hope you get this email. Thanks for emailing me sensi. I really hope you have some time to reply back. No worries, I LOVE your class, I am not leaving. Thank you Sensei Best regards , your aikioka/student Kevin.

Krystal Locke
10-15-2012, 12:05 PM
See the orthopedist, do the physical therapy exactly as shown and as often as prescribed. Get the surgery if the orthopedist recommends it.

We aren't always able to do aikido the way we would like to, but we are always able to do aikido at some level, in some way.

Shoulder injuries take a LONG time to heal, with MUCH discomfort, and NO guaranteed outcome, surgery or not.

And please consider paragraphs.

Best of luck with all of it.

lbb
10-15-2012, 12:44 PM
First things first: understand that no injury, no matter how bad, means that you won't be able to do aikido again.

Does that mean that your injury won't cause problems for you? Hell, no -- it almost certainly will cause problems for you, because orthopedic injuries tend to be like that. You almost never get to go back to exactly the way it was before. But that's not always a bad thing. I've dislocated my left shoulder twice, and I would honestly say that right now I think it's healthier than it was before -- yes, it's had damage; yes, there's scar tissue in there somewhere; but it pains me rarely and has no disability, and I would say that it's less likely to be injured now than it was then.

Don't try to get your injury diagnosed over the internet, not here and not anywhere else. Go see an orthopedist, preferably one that has a sportsmedicine practice. Explain in detail how you got injured and what your practice involves. Follow your doctor's advice. Don't expect them to guarantee that you will get fixed up good as new - they won't do that. Understand that doctors don't fix human bodies the way mechanics fix cars - you can't just swap out a part. A doctor's job is to help create the circumstances where your body can heal itself as best possible. It is very, very easy for you, the patient, to subvert that process if you are not wise.

Be patient. I know that's hard, especially when you feel in need of reassurance -- right now you want to know what's what and when it will be all better (hence your mention of recovery time, knowing on Monday if you'll need surgery, etc.). Unfortunately, you're going to have to learn to be patient with uncertainty. If you meet with an ortho today, it's most likely you won't get very definite answers, particularly about having surgery, because it's still quite soon after the injury. If your doctor does quote you a recovery time, you need to take it with a large grain of salt, recognizing that it depends on if all goes well, if you don't reinjure it, if the doctor's diagnosis has found all the problems, etc. And, remember that with orthopedic injuries, "recovery time" never means "time until it's as good as new". That tends to be a longer time, and can be "never" if you're stubborn about it. "Recovery time" really means "typical time at which you can resume activity" -- bearing in mind that for the average ortho, "activity" means "picking up a latte at the Starbucks", not rolling around on an aikido mat. You need to be frank with your doctor, and describe your activity in detail. Be patient. A resolution will come, but it will tend to come slower and with more setbacks the more you try to rush it.

Aikido is something that a person does -- it's not something that a body does. I step onto the mat with people whose bodies (and minds) have all kinds of wear and tear on them. From the fact that you mentioned it, I'm guessing you're rather proud of your 70 hours. Now you get to learn that it's not about how many hours you've got on your attendance sheet or how many techniques you know. It's not about having the perfect body or the perfect mind, either. Striving to improve is great, but not if you delude yourself into believing that you can be perfect. You do aikido with the body and mind you have, or you don't do it at all.

SparkErosion
10-15-2012, 12:47 PM
See the orthopedist, do the physical therapy exactly as shown and as often as prescribed. Get the surgery if the orthopedist recommends it.

We aren't always able to do aikido the way we would like to, but we are always able to do aikido at some level, in some way.

Shoulder injuries take a LONG time to heal, with MUCH discomfort, and NO guaranteed outcome, surgery or not.

And please consider paragraphs.

Best of luck with all of it.

Sigh, well hopefully it doesn't end that badly and I can't do aikido for rest of my life. Don't know how, but again, hopefully ill eventually get fully healed and ok enough to go back do ukemi, and test for my 5th (yellow belt) I was so close to testing to. I'm glad to hear it might not be entirely hopeless, that. I I might be able to do aikido again, at some level (what do you mean by level?) again.... Thanks. I tried to add paragraphs, but all I got is this iPod, it's not letting me add paragraphs, I tried. Sorry. I'll try again in the future .

Brian Beach
10-15-2012, 12:50 PM
I separated my AC joint a number of years back. I was in a sling for a few weeks and had to take it easy for a few more. You can get back to training, it just takes time. The hard part is sitting on the sidelines. Get the go ahead from a doctor to get back to class. It's easy it to re-injure, if you don't take the time to heal.

I would suggest going to class even if you can't train. It keeps you mentally involved and keeps the routine of going to class ingrained. You can still learn things.

I've had a worse knee injury that kept me out for almost a year. You can always go back. Most long term Martial Artists I know have had some sort of serious injury. Welcome to the club ;)

SparkErosion
10-15-2012, 01:03 PM
First things first: understand that no injury, no matter how bad, means that you won't be able to do aikido again.

Does that mean that your injury won't cause problems for you? Hell, no -- it almost certainly will cause problems for you, because orthopedic injuries tend to be like that. You almost never get to go back to exactly the way it was before. But that's not always a bad thing. I've dislocated my left shoulder twice, and I would honestly say that right now I think it's healthier than it was before -- yes, it's had damage; yes, there's scar tissue in there somewhere; but it pains me rarely and has no disability, and I would say that it's less likely to be injured now than it was then.

Don't try to get your injury diagnosed over the internet, not here and not anywhere else. Go see an orthopedist, preferably one that has a sportsmedicine practice. Explain in detail how you got injured and what your practice involves. Follow your doctor's advice. Don't expect them to guarantee that you will get fixed up good as new - they won't do that. Understand that doctors don't fix human bodies the way mechanics fix cars - you can't just swap out a part. A doctor's job is to help create the circumstances where your body can heal itself as best possible. It is very, very easy for you, the patient, to subvert that process if you are not wise.

Be patient. I know that's hard, especially when you feel in need of reassurance -- right now you want to know what's what and when it will be all better (hence your mention of recovery time, knowing on Monday if you'll need surgery, etc.). Unfortunately, you're going to have to learn to be patient with uncertainty. If you meet with an ortho today, it's most likely you won't get very definite answers, particularly about having surgery, because it's still quite soon after the injury. If your doctor does quote you a recovery time, you need to take it with a large grain of salt, recognizing that it depends on if all goes well, if you don't reinjure it, if the doctor's diagnosis has found all the problems, etc. And, remember that with orthopedic injuries, "recovery time" never means "time until it's as good as new". That tends to be a longer time, and can be "never" if you're stubborn about it. "Recovery time" really means "typical time at which you can resume activity" -- bearing in mind that for the average ortho, "activity" means "picking up a latte at the Starbucks", not rolling around on an aikido mat. You need to be frank with your doctor, and describe your activity in detail. Be patient. A resolution will come, but it will tend to come slower and with more setbacks the more you try to rush it.

Aikido is something that a person does -- it's not something that a body does. I step onto the mat with people whose bodies (and minds) have all kinds of wear and tear on them. From the fact that you mentioned it, I'm guessing you're rather proud of your 70 hours. Now you get to learn that it's not about how many hours you've got on your attendance sheet or how many techniques you know. It's not about having the perfect body or the perfect mind, either. Striving to improve is great, but not if you delude yourself into believing that you can be perfect. You do aikido with the body and mind you have, or you don't do it at all.
Sorry for boasting, I hate it and always fear of sounding baggy. I have a bit of trouble with the mind too, I have body dysmorphic and struggled with bulmina, after losing 104 lbs healthy, it only became bad and unhealthy at maintenance, where I see the loose skin as fat despite being at a low, healthy body fat. Just saying, because I'm an extreme perfectionist, you're right, I am with my coin magic as. A magician , and though its gotten me far and advanced, but its taken quite a toll on my mental state. Thanks for the wise words. Hope this works out and one day... I can return, rusty yes, but hopefully not forgotten everything as I was on day one I started aikido, hope really, that's no the case.

SparkErosion
10-15-2012, 01:14 PM
I separated my AC joint a number of years back. I was in a sling for a few weeks and had to take it easy for a few more. You can get back to training, it just takes time. The hard part is sitting on the sidelines. Get the go ahead from a doctor to get back to class. It's easy it to re-injure, if you don't take the time to heal.

I would suggest going to class even if you can't train. It keeps you mentally involved and keeps the routine of going to class ingrained. You can still learn things.

I've had a worse knee injury that kept me out for almost a year. You can always go back. Most long term Martial Artists I know have had some sort of serious injury. Welcome to the club ;)

Thanks for the encouragement . Seems like everyone thinks I can do it again eventually, that makes me happy. I don't know new problems I'll have like you speak of, I'm sure I will, just not sure how it'll effect me yet. No more left shoulder rolls? No more of any ukemi,,,,,? That would certainly be bad. Well, I'll just hang in there, be patient and with myself, and hope for the best....

Brian Beach
10-15-2012, 01:39 PM
Thanks for the encouragement . Seems like everyone thinks I can do it again eventually, that makes me happy. I don't know new problems I'll have like you speak of, I'm sure I will, just not sure how it'll effect me yet. No more left shoulder rolls? No more of any ukemi,,,,,? That would certainly be bad. Well, I'll just hang in there, be patient and with myself, and hope for the best....

It's an annoying rather than debilitating injury in my experience. I'm sure you are not the only one in your dojo than has done it.

When you meet with your doctor ask for a referral to a physical therapist. They should be able to give you some exercises to help strengthen the area to compensate for the damaged structure. If you follow their instruction you should be able to roll and take any ukemi you feel comfortable doing.

You are far from finished. :)

Krystal Locke
10-15-2012, 02:10 PM
I'm glad to hear it might not be entirely hopeless, that. I I might be able to do aikido again, at some level (what do you mean by level?) again....

Google up Molly Hale and aikido. Is her aikido different than it might have been if things had gone differently? Yah, just a little. Is she prevented from training and learning and teaching aikido? Not hardly. It is all about how you face challenges.

Everybody's experience with injuries is different, but I dislocated my left shoulder about 3 months into my aikido career (right after I passed my first rank test in our school), was out for 6 months (no surgery, lifetime physical therapy), and separated my right shoulder in the very first class I took after recovering sufficiently from the left shoulder's injury. Another 2 months off the mat. After appropriate treatment and therapy, I have gone on to train for a very long time. And to do physical therapy for a very long time......

Would I be better at aikido if I had never injured my shoulders? Maybe, maybe not. I'd certainly be a different person, not having that particular depth of experience. Maybe I would have gotten bored at 1st kyu and quit. Would my aikido be different if I hadn't taken a decade off due to particularly unpleasant relationship drama? Maybe I'd be a yondan now, like some of my classmates who started not long after me. And I might just have kept on being unconcerned about my actions' effects on other folks lives. We get what we get, every day. Life IS the lesson, and the exam, and the graduation ceremony.

Nana korobi ya oki. Chumbawamba was on to something....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2H5uWRjFsGc

Michael Hackett
10-15-2012, 02:49 PM
I had the same injury many years ago. It healed with immobilization and then physical therapy. My range of motion is somewhat reduced with that shoulder and I still have the ugly lump, but I don't even notice the old injury when I train. I hope you have the same kind of success.

One of my dojomates was injured a few months ago during a black belt test and suffered a much more serious A/C separation. His required surgery and physical therapy. His doctor says that he can resume training any time now and should have no lasting effects. He's been off the mat since summer and the healing process is slow.

The bottom line is that you can heal and get back to your normal life if you are patient. Just follow your doctor's orders, do the physical therapy and don't rush back into anything that will set back the healing. In the meantime, continue to attend classes and watch from the sidelines. You'll still learn a lot, will enjoy being part of your dojo, and will keep the habit of attending class ingrained.

Good luck!

Shadowfax
10-15-2012, 03:29 PM
Others have given you plenty of good advice. Listen to your Dr and give yourself time to heal. But I want t let ou know that I understand just how you feel about aikido and how much it has helped your state of mind and in dealing with your problem because I have much the same feeling about what aikido has done for me. Missing one class for me is a cause for a great deal of anxiety and distress but it does happen from time t time and you will get through it. Trust me the only way you are ever going to have to quit aikido is if you actually chose to quit.

I have an old shoulder injury myself. Tore the rotator cuff about 20 years ago i a wrestling match with a horse. (I won... sorta) It was indeed excruciatingly painful for a long time. It took probably 6 months to get back to almost normal and it still bugs me from time to time. But it does not stop me.

Two years ago while preparing for my 5t kyu test I moved badly and tore the media meniscus in my right knee. Again. Extreme pain for quite a while. I was off the mat for a month. It delayed my test by 2 months and I was very cautious in training for the next 6 months before it started to feel fully functional again. During that month of the mat I still went to every class. This was a feat since I drive a stick shift and driving was not real easy on me. Luckily my dojo mates helped me by picking me up and driving me most of the time. A huge deal considering how far I live from the dojo. But went to every class. I sat and I watched and I took pictures and short videos which my dojo mates found useful. While I have made a god recovery I also know that I ca never do certain things in the dojo again. No swari waza or hanmi handachi for me. No shikko and only enough seiza to bow into and out of class. I'm disappointed by that but I still have aikido.

A few weeks ago Dan Messisco sensei came and taught a seminar at our dojo. In the evening at the dojo pot luck we held for him he told stories and talked to al of us and I heard many interesting things. But the thing that really stood out was how he sat talking to a older gentleman (in his70's) who was talking about ow he can't do aikido anymore because he can't take the ukemi anymore. Dan sensei looked at him and said you ca always do aikido. Aikid is not ukemi. Aikido is not just techniques. There is much to explore and learn in aikido even without being about to fall down or go trough entire techniques. Dan said he could not imagine that there would ever be a time in his life when he would feel that he had to stop doing aikido. I found that very encouraging.And so did the gentleman he was talking to who has since begun coming to class again. I'm kinda glad because I get a lot out of training with him. You can learn a lot even if your partner can't fall down too. ;)

Conrad Gus
10-15-2012, 06:00 PM
I've been doing aikido now for 6 months, approximately 70 or so hours of practice. I've had major depression my entire life, and I know this is personal, but aikido relaxed me, in times of despair- even when in the past I was considering suicide, my aikido gave me hope. I'm extremes worried I might have a mental collapse, or my depression will worry significantly. I take meds for it, yes, they work, but I'm seeing an orthopedic surgeon soon, the anxiety of possibly never being able to do aikido again frightens me, it feels devestating, not only would my future and passion be gone, I also couldn't defend myself if needed. My mom was a gymnast , a very good one who was trying to reach and compete for the Olympics, she dislocated her shoulder once, and reinsured it 2 more times from trying again to do gymnastics, and had to have surgery and pins and screws in. She can never do gymnastics again. She told me there is the same possibility for me, and I became extremely frustrated and depressed, I was hoping by posting here it might give me some encouragement, maybe some else has had this injury and did aikido again. I may have a level 3 separation level. I'll explain what happened soon, basically I copy and pasted it from explaining it before. No broken bones from the x-ray, but I do have a pretty bad a/c shoulder separation. I'm in a sling and taking many Vicodin a day with almost no pain relief. The pain is severe and constant. I cannot move my arm any, or the pain becomes excruciatingly bad. Getting up and sitting down is also very painful. Carrying anything in my left hand, even a can of diet coke causes a lot of pain. Picking anything up with the right hand that is very light (a couple books), but still painful. I have a large, deformed bump on my left shoulder. I heard a loud crack and pop when the accident happened 2 days ago. Whoever the arm moves any, in the sling, I can hear for whatever reason a audible popping sound. I try to keep it still. Anyway, sorry, that's enough of that. My rolls , kneeling , standing, crossover are all pretty good and silent. I rolled on concrete before standing with no pain or issues. My left side is my better , much better side of rolling forward with, and by all the ukemi I'm only talking about forward rolls, which ironically enough happened on my better left side. I also learned (as our sensei tells us when we're ready to test, we don't ask) after the injury that I was very close to testing for my 5th kyu or yellow belt. We do a one man randori in that test, which as I mention below I did kind of like a mini one the day I got injured, honestly , hope I'm not bragging but I felt happy and pretty proud of myself . Here's the explanation, I'm sorry for all the length and rambling going on here, I'm pretty down right now and hoping someone else has been injured and returned to aikido. Thank you guys so much! Here: I'm seeing an orthopedic surgeon as soon as possible after chandler regional hospital refered me to one. Before class yesterday before the injury, Ashley and Andrew and I practiced kokyunage on me. I had a harder time a little with from the yokomenuchi strike but defending against the grab (on the lapel of the uniform, near the neck) came quickly. I was surprised with myself as Andrew came at me suddenly (grab version) running and I threw him and then unexpected Ashley joined in and ran at me too in the same version of the kokyunage, I took her down too. Then Andrew came again, heh, I messed it up as it was yoko, and rolled the opposite direction away. The weird thing is I didn't really think about the execution of the technique, I had to react and had no time to think! It was a lot of fun and I surprised myself as I didn't think I was capable of doing that. Unfortunately, as I explained on the aikido Facebook page , the first couple versions of the kokyunage Jean showed us to do I really didn't do a forward roll, I was kind of just thrown, more of a "side tumble". However, during the technique when I fell and to injured, they demonstrated the forward roll was necessary. I saw them doing it- but I guess it didn't register as I was being thrown that last time.... For some reason I thought I was more of the tumble like before. Robert threw me with some momentum, and I forgot this, expecting to land kind of on my side like the other falls. I hand my hand out instinctly to do a forward roll, it was on my good side too, my left shoulder, and basically fell vertically straight on the sholder, then tumbled over a bit. I knew something was wrong immediately as I heard it crack/pop , and had instant severe pain. Moving the left arm any, especially up hurt extremely bad. Moving my body also hurts a lot, as well as deeply breathing. One of the black belts, I'm horrible with names, I do apologize, took me to the handle hospital. They did several x rays, and I have a pretty bad A/C sholder seperation. When I move the arm out of the arm sling I was given, I can hear it pop for some reason. There's alot of swelling on the shoulder joint (a/c joint, where the top arm bone, collar bone and shoulder blade meet) and a very large deformed bump , I'm assuming from the seperation. I was told by the doctors there. Probably tore som e tendons and ligaments apart. Ther are different levels of this injury. 1, 2, 3 are most common. 1 is more mild, I'm guessing I might have a 3, as the pain is very severe. The good news is from what I read most don't need surgery, I'll find out on Monday probably if I need surgery with the surgeon. Without surgery, I was told it takes around 6 to 8 weeks to heal, about 4 months to 5 with surgery. It's done with screws or pins. I really am hoping I won't need that. Looking on the bright side, they said I didn't break anything , which is good and would take longer to recover. I'll definitely be back when I'm fully healed. I may need physical therapy , and the bump may not go away. I'm not going to rush it, but either way both surgery or not takes a lot of time heal, half the time I've been doing aikido at least, I'm a bit worried still but trying my best to remain optimistic. When I recover I will definitely probably only roll on my right side / shoulder to begin with and take ill take I extra slow. I hope you get this email. Thanks for emailing me sensi. I really hope you have some time to reply back. No worries, I LOVE your class, I am not leaving. Thank you Sensei Best regards , your aikioka/student Kevin.

I had a similar injury a year ago. Not from aikido, but the same fall and same tendon and ligament damage. It hurt so much, and I was very surprised when my doctor told me it would heal by itself in 8 weeks. Amazingly, it healed completely. I hope yours gets better that fast too!

The human body is amazing.

In the meantime, I recommend taking up meditation to help with depression. You have a nice 8 week window where aikido won't be a distraction, and when you do get back on the mat you might find yourself being able to relax easier. It can't hurt.

All the best to you,

Conrad

Janet Rosen
10-15-2012, 06:38 PM
Some AC separations heal with time/immobility/rehab. Some severe ones require surgery.

Many of us have come back from severe injuries and surgery or rehab...sometimes it takes months and sometimes it takes years...if you can take the long view, well so be it, right?

It is essential to long term mental health that we not define ourselves purely by one job, sport, activity - especially if it is essentially an avocation and one based on physical ability.

Andrew Macdonald
10-15-2012, 09:44 PM
of course you'll be able to train again, don't listen to anyone but your doctor.

Even your mother, gynastic at an olympic level where you are competing with people and putting your body through huge amounts of stress and doing aikido are not related in the slightest. ukemi is not gymnastics.

it may take a while to heal though and you have to be open to that. in the mean time get yourself down to the dojo watch classes, gets books on aikido, even DVDs if it helps. in short don't let the rot set in.

I have know lots of talented martial artist who had a serious injury that took them out for a while, and in that time they drifted and never came back.

No one, NO ONE has done aikido for a long time without picking up an injury or two, knees, back, elbow, i was at a seminar with horri shihan and he was telling us the sotry of how parts of his aikido changed becasue of a serious injury he had. but anyway.

so everyone thinks that you can go back, becasue you can. it is no big deal, just keep on going

SparkErosion
10-16-2012, 01:19 AM
of course you'll be able to train again, don't listen to anyone but your doctor.

Even your mother, gynastic at an olympic level where you are competing with people and putting your body through huge amounts of stress and doing aikido are not related in the slightest. ukemi is not gymnastics.

it may take a while to heal though and you have to be open to that. in the mean time get yourself down to the dojo watch classes, gets books on aikido, even DVDs if it helps. in short don't let the rot set in.

I have know lots of talented martial artist who had a serious injury that took them out for a while, and in that time they drifted and never came back.

No one, NO ONE has done aikido for a long time without picking up an injury or two, knees, back, elbow, i was at a seminar with horri shihan and he was telling us the sotry of how parts of his aikido changed becasue of a serious injury he had. but anyway.

so everyone thinks that you can go back, becasue you can. it is no big deal, just keep on going
Oh, I'm never quitting. Yeah, it's gonna take awhile to get back. Yeah, after being so close to testing for my first belt, I'm upset this happened , but heck no I'm not quitting. I'll review the good techniques online on my dodos website which has over a hundred, ukemi, Shikko, you name it. I'll go to classes eventually once I feel better and the pain is good enough me to walk a mile home as I always had from my dojo. From my posts, it may seem I'm a quitter, I know no one said that, but I'm not and stubborn as heck (ask my dad who says its a bad thing... ) ill buy some good aikido DVDs in the meantime when I can afford them next month, any classic ones? Ones that I *must* own? I never bought any. I'll ask my sensei, luckily a friend told me they had a book on martial arts at STAR (a peer run recovery based center for people with severe mental illness, which I was "diagnosed" with) ill look in the book and see if there's any exercise I can do with one hand/arm with no body movement in aikido. The a/c shoulder seperation is bad enough where I can't move without a decent amount of pain, ESP. Bending down, turning head or neck to the right left, up, Down, basically anything that hurts the ligaments/tendons/muscles in my left shoulder (which consists of the humerus or upper arm bone which inserts into the chest cavity at its "ball joint", the shoulder blade, and the collar bone. All of this area hurts, even deep breathing or flexing any muscles, oddly, even flexing the abdominal a hurts. BUT, I can move my right hand arm no pain, full motion of this arm and shoulder, but picking something heavy (I can pick up minor stuff, if its heavy like. A 12 case of soda, no way.. Then I feel a lot of pain in my left shoulder and left shoulder muscles). I've a psychiatrist appointment tommoroow, primary care doctor on Wednesday, and ortho surgeon on Thursday , all free with my insurance via taxi. So I took care of that at least. I don't like my psychiatrist much, she tends to challlenge any of my opinions, it's like a one sided argument, instead of listening , she always wins, she's the Doc, as she said, "i can't diagnose myself. " I always follow my body and my gut, and we've always clashed (and most other Drs, PAs, Social workers) . I know I have an eating disorder, probably Bulima, but it IS an eating disorder. I actually lost 104 lbs, through a healthy balanced diet (1800 to 2000 kcal a day, lots of fruit, veggies, complex carbs like sweet potatoes, high protein, mostly fish and other lean cuts like lean pork chops, skinless boneless chicken breast, healthy fats, mostly unsaturated such as peanut butter, but still low fat, eating what I wanted on the weekends in control, obviously) biking 8 miles a day to the gym and back , lifting a major muscle group a day (different each day) 5 days week . Doing this a year I lost the majority of the fat, and then hit a plateau. I didn't quick. I was eating mostly healthy, but some of too much lean cuisine frozen dinners, caused water retention.i was finally able to bike more an 1/16th of a mile (no sarcasm!) up to 20 miles, but still at that plateau . I scratched my diet. I stopped buying those or ate them minimally. I just ate whole foods, I'm not going to say natural as I don't like that term , but not processed in the form of say like, a hotdog, candy bar, even a piece of chicken breast, broccoli, fruit , veggies, a 1/2 a med. sweet potato and light soy milk is much better (and a lot less salt!) than any frozen dinner. I also started doing an activity I really sucked at, running. I did High Intensity Interval Training or HIIT, running. 15 minutes of hell. Re did my weight lifting too. All of this got me through my plateau of around 174 lbs, and a that point 16 to 17% body fat . Once I got past it, body fat got to 10-11% which I maintain now. But for an enormous amount of time and training it took go from average body fat for my age "17%" to good or ideal at 15%. I logged every bite of food I ate the 2 years it took t lost the 104 lbs, online, and logged photos, also online. That's why most drs don't think I have an ED. Once I hit maintaince, I couldn't . I had to get thinner. I still saw and see myself too fat, even though sometimes I know I'm not. I'm still at a healthy weigh but feel really fat after this injury. Parents say I'm too thin. It's not they say, just loose skin. The loose skin , which is noticeable, but not too bad, caused this. The obsession with body image developed into body dysmorphic disorder. Eventually I'd binge on food, which I always did as obese but controlled it during mantience and losing the weight, but sometimes I eat healthy and the binge will go on for a week. I gain some weight, feel fatter immediately, even if I didn't gain any and it was just water , and immediate restrict my diet heavily to 1600 kcal less. Or if my weight was up a lb from the ever decreasing "ideal" , I bike 60 miles across 4 cities. Recently in the last month I started self induced vomiting, threw up or purged 50 times a day for about 2 weeks, then had severe pain suddenly and went to 7 hospitals, all dismissing the ES as non existent , I.e I didn't have one, saying ill just snap out of it. My psychiatrist agrees I don't have any eating disorders, I've gotten in many angry and heated arguments with her on this, going in and out of denial. The last one admitted me, I had an infection of the bowels, almost had.my gallbladder removed from he swelling, a hiatal hernia, and low electrolytes. The antibiotics healed me, within 2weeks after I was ok and feeling fine when this shoulder seperation occurred. Without a diagnosis from my own psychiatrist , and I've had one from other , except it only matters if its from my primary psychiatrist , I cannot get proper treatment for it which my insurance covers. I went to ED anonymous, only to end the group from severe nausea and pain that came back again, had to go to the hospital again. All the people with their contacts I called and left voicemails for, none whom called back. Anyway, I'll give the links to the weight loss, I think it's cool. Went from a size 50 waist to 32! Also I'm a magician and have been practicing magic with one hand, which is actually the conclusion or point I wanted to make, I have other hobbies and friends, many, in the magic community. Ill post those videos too. Thanks guys hope check them out. Oh, I'll never quit! And I never am. 6 months or so, I'm hooked.
http://youtu.be/tG2AHuf5Vyo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QOiYNa9xRU. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJToTBr4Nhw Weight loss: http://weight-loss.fitness.com/t/33588/my-weight-loss-transformation-a-work-in-progress. (More pic on the last page) here is my nutrition diary for 2 years: http://weight-loss.fitness.com/t/33313/my-dairy. Currently I'm going to school to become a registered dietitian . Thanks guys.

SparkErosion
10-16-2012, 01:43 AM
Some photos: http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a134/spacetimecont/good1.jpg. http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a134/spacetimecont/IMG_1050.jpg http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a134/spacetimecont/IMG_20120328_042351.jpg

crbateman
10-16-2012, 06:08 AM
Kevin, aiki principles teach us to blend... to adapt... to overcome, not by force, but by focus and control. In your situation, a good dose of this same methodology would probably give you what you need to resolve this issue. In other words, don't worry about not being able to train, as worry solves nothing. Do your best to live an aiki life, and explore ways to expand and take your training outside the box, and the rest will fall into place.

lbb
10-16-2012, 08:03 AM
Oh, I'm never quitting. Yeah, it's gonna take awhile to get back. Yeah, after being so close to testing for my first belt, I'm upset this happened

Sounds like a case of RTTV. That's Rank Testing Tunnel Vision, and it's one of the worst things that can happen to a martial artist. The test doesn't matter and the rank doesn't matter -- and before you think I'm just being glib, I've been in the exact same situation as you, only it was two days before my test, and it was a shodan test (not aikido). Yes, the people giving you advice really do know what we're talking about.

ill look in the book and see if there's any exercise I can do with one hand/arm with no body movement in aikido. The a/c shoulder seperation is bad enough where I can't move without a decent amount of pain, ESP. Bending down, turning head or neck to the right left, up, Down, basically anything that hurts the
etc.

Have you been reading what people have told you? Stop trying to think of ways to cheat your recovery. Your body needs rest, and your mind needs adjustment.

You should reread what Janet said, about how you can't define yourself by just one thing. That's a dangerously brittle and fragile way to live.

SparkErosion
10-16-2012, 08:57 AM
I don't define myself by one thing, I just mentioned and posted many videos about how magic is huge in my life, even practicing with one hand, I posted videos of my tricks too....I also contacted molly hale and she's helping me heal with advice too and more info as she went through the same thing...

SeiserL
10-16-2012, 09:20 AM
Kevin, aiki principles teach us to blend... to adapt... to overcome, not by force, but by focus and control. In your situation, a good dose of this same methodology would probably give you what you need to resolve this issue. In other words, don't worry about not being able to train, as worry solves nothing. Do your best to live an aiki life, and explore ways to expand and take your training outside the box, and the rest will fall into place.
Gotta second Clark-san.

Many of us old mat-rats have been injured (many times) and eventually trained again.

This is how you build character and discipline.

Diana Frese
10-16-2012, 11:24 AM
I'm an old mat rat who isn't training now but I know I could. Right now we have to concentrate on work, finances and doing what it takes to preserve our home, which has enough land to train on our own as basis for visiting others in the future. Right now, no transpo, but hubby car pools with friends for carpentry and drives a limo on days off.

Injuries? He broke a part of the side prong of a vertebra in his neck when someone in the judo club his friends belong to did a shoulder throw too hard and my husband is real tall.

For him,weight training with a metal bar and old tires behind a tree in our yard helped build back correctly after some physical therapy.As for me, I got sciatica from possibly age related lower back vertebra problems and after physical therapy was told to do gardening! My hobby. So that's a way to safely get the necessary bending and stretching.

This is just another example of how others deal with the physical problems and manage to train again.
Hope the additional encouragement helps, so here is one more. I had taught Aikido at our local YMCA. I met my husband there, helped him with his work and looked after the cooking and errands at the same time as another dojo was building up in a loft in a nearby town. When I tried some stretches when we went to visit my parents -- the weather was so nice, the lawn was spring green --
rip rip plantar fascitis on both heels. And then my knee got weird, possibly as a result.

A couple of years later, I had another dojo. And people to practice with. No ukemi, the little room off the loft woodshop we had was too small, the wall of old windows was too scary and besides I had five students most of whom had some injury or other reason they fitted in best with my classes rather than going elsewhere!

Then all kinds of factors dispersed the dojo, all kept in touch, at least for a while, and it was a valuable experience because we learned that there is always some way to practice Aikido, with people willing to adapt. We and our partners can find some mutual adjustment, if we are motivated and open minded. I hope your healing from the injury goes well, and that you find understanding Aikido people to work with. Could be the people you started with!

lars beyer
10-16-2012, 01:38 PM
Hi Kevin,
I had an AC dislocation in May this year, cat 2-3 and I am beginning to train again slowly now. Im 47 btw
so Im not pushing myself too hard. Funny thing it happened right before my nidan test,
so I have that one to look forward to maybe a little more wise this time..
I read a lot of good advice here and I believe youll be fine, so dont worry.
:)
Lars

SparkErosion
10-16-2012, 02:28 PM
Thank you all so much for the support! You have both brightened my day, enlightened me, and helped a decent amount from the depression. I do take meds for it. Mary, thank you much also for your great truthful statements, and concern. I appreciate it and everyone else here. Perhaps that's why aikido students are so helpful, they have such concern for others, perhaps this is the love and compassion Osensei meant towards others, perhaps this love may be an interpretation if Ai in Aikido, love or harmony with oneself, nature, and others. Thanks again everyone.

Linda Eskin
10-16-2012, 03:49 PM
I'm sorry you are injured and scared. I totally understand - I cannot imagine a life without training.

I have not read all the other replies, so sorry for any redundancy. I'm here to offer encouragement. My shoulders were weak from bone spurs already, when I started training, and I'd had surgery on one. In my 4th class I landed badly and separated the AC joint. Granted, it was only a level 1 separation, but dang those things hurt! I had to sit out for 6 weeks, while icing it several times a day, and doing physical therapy.

Like you (even without any history of depression) I was in some despair over how well I might heal. I had started at age 46, and at first was questioning if I was "too old" and whether I should even continue training (although I desperately wanted to!). The best news I could have heard came from my doctor who told me these things usually heal very well, and that I should be fine with rest and treatment. Indeed, that shoulder is perfectly fine now (much better than the other one, actually). I continue with my PT exercises even today, almost 4 years later, to help prevent similar injury in the future.

Get to a good orthopedic doc, and request a course of physical therapy. And then do exactly what they say - do not rush back into training. If you can, also work with a massage therapist. The muscle spasms in my shoulder/upper back were worse than the pain in the joint itself. Meanwhile, go to class and watch. Take notes, sketch the motions. You will see things in a different way, hear things you missed, and stay connected with your dojo community.

No promises, of course, but I think you've got a very good likelihood not only of getting back on the mat, but being really OK. It will take a while. Think of it as an opportunity to practice patience and caring for your body. Even if you don't heal perfectly, there are lots of ways to train, with much more severe disabilities than shoulder injuries. There is no reason this should stop you, in the long run.

SparkErosion
10-18-2012, 10:01 AM
Thanks everyone. Does anyone know any exec rices For technique i can do with one hand? Pain is still the same (severe) but I'm noticing a larger range of motion of my shoulder already I can now put my hand arm by my side with almost no pain while doing so, and extend it more , my arm, to the left. To my confusion, I read the X-ray report which stated my shoulder was perfectly fine and normal, no ac joint dislocation, tears, it said I DIDN'T have an shoulder seperation. It sure hurts a lot as well as the large bump, and yes I'm hoping I don't have an ac seperation maybe it's swelling. I'm seeing the orthopedic surgeon today, I'll let you guys know.

Linda Eskin
10-18-2012, 12:35 PM
Whatever the diagnosis is, I hope it heals quickly and uneventfully. Don't risk reinjuring it by trying to roll "just on one side" or something where you could have to deal with a sudden, unexpected movement, or someone grabbing you on the wrong side. That said, you could do some gentle, controlled training on one side. We have a student who broke his collarbone (off-roading, not on the mat) shortly before an exam, and after the surgery (which stabilized it with plates/screws, or something like that) Sensei did a class where we just worked on one-handed techniques. As I recall there was some kokyu-nage and kokyu-ho. It turned out the guy healed fast enough to do his exam normally, but the one-handed class was interesting.

lbb
10-18-2012, 01:06 PM
Thanks everyone. Does anyone know any exec rices For technique i can do with one hand?

None that I'd recommend to someone who has been injured and is looking for advice over the internet. You should be following your doctor's advice in these matters. I know it's hard, but the more you shop around for someone who will tell you what you want to hear, the more you're likely to regret it down the road. Happy talk now will end in tears.

Linda Eskin
10-18-2012, 01:10 PM
You might find some inspiration in these videos of AlejAndro Anastasio Sensei:

"One Handed Aikido. Inspirational Speech."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3_VFeFOjac

"AlejAndro Sensei's Aiki Expo Demonstration 2003" [weapons]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hzu067peAaU

He is not teaching right now, but here's his web page:
http://www.3shapesaikido.com/

SparkErosion
10-18-2012, 03:40 PM
Good news. Went to the orthopedic surgeon today. I did have a shoulder seperation, however, the bump might go down but won't ever go away. Most of the problem was due to a lot of inflammation, including in the muscles. This is also where most of the pain is coming from he said. He gave me a inflammation med, a pain med too. He said I don't need physical therapy. Indeed, before I noticed it was healing, I had more mobility in my arm/shoulder over the last week, I could tell. He said I'd heal completely most likely in only 4 weeks, and if no pain and swelling can continue my aikido with no issues. I was lucky, no surgery needed, it'll heal on its own. I'm still probably , if I'm completely healed in 4 weeks, going postpone my aikido another 1-2 weeks to be safe. I can already feel a difference in the inflammation meds working, less pain (he and the pharmacist that was the main cause of the pain and it would reduce the swelling and pain), and more mobility in the arm. In one week he told me to remove the sling, as it'd eventually make my arm and shoulder more stiff, and start moving the hand and arm downward to improve mobility and movement. He said absolutely not to do this overhead (I know from experience this hurts really really bad from removing my tshirt for showers. I'm trying to find a different way to do it. ) I'm seeing him again in 2 weeks to see if the meds and any improvement , less swelling in muscles on my left affected shoulder, etc. I'm pretty happy it went so well and I can return eventually to aikido. I'm happy. I can feel the improvements in only the last week. Amazing how the body heals itself. Thanks guys for the support , again. Kevin.

SparkErosion
10-18-2012, 03:52 PM
You might find some inspiration in these videos of AlejAndro Anastasio Sensei:

"One Handed Aikido. Inspirational Speech."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3_VFeFOjac

"AlejAndro Sensei's Aiki Expo Demonstration 2003" [weapons]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hzu067peAaU

He is not teaching right now, but here's his web page:
http://www.3shapesaikido.com/

I'm taking Mary's advice , not training with one hand, but still reading my aikido and the dynamic sphere (seems like all of aikido is movement? Can someone please confirm this? Movement with the attacker, (rarely static) and movement in blending with the attacker in semi or full, or many of these circles, reversing the energy and using the attackers movement to your advantage. Indeed , it seems in my opinion the stronger and faster the attacker charges at you to attack, the more energy from this, thus the harder they fall, right? A basic law is energy is not destroyed ever, but always changing. Einstein proved that energy is equilevent to mass in E=MC^2. This is interesting . What do you guys of this, am I possible correct in all of this? Thank you! And thanks for those inspirational links, they look interesting . I'll read and watch them! I also am talking to Molly Hale now, what a nice and amazing lady! Kevin .

phitruong
10-18-2012, 03:54 PM
just because you can't physically do aikido doesn't mean you can't go to the dojo and practice. watching is a kind of practice. besides, you can practice footwork, right?

SparkErosion
10-18-2012, 03:58 PM
Also I wanted to very clear, I took your guys advice , and told him exactly how it happened, and how I feel, and it was during a training session in the martial arts called aikido. Thanks .

SparkErosion
10-18-2012, 04:10 PM
just because you can't physically do aikido doesn't mean you can't go to the dojo and practice. watching is a kind of practice. besides, you can practice footwork, right?

Exactly. I'm not sure about the footwork, but perhaps stabilizing my center and hara with my legs might be a good idea. There's probably I bet an ex cerise for that too I bet,. I'm waiting for the swelling and pain to go down, probably at least another week. Problem is I'm going to have the sling off by then, I don't want to fly in the bus and hit the floor again which happened a couple, I was injured with a lot of bruises and flew forward from the very hard and extremly sudden stop at a stop light, I flew forward over 20 feet, towards the very part of the driver , beyond the very front of the bus. These sudden stops happen often, but rarely that bad. Everything I was wearing and in my pickets went flying too from the force. I'll have no sling, my arm and shoulder would be exposed, and I'd have to walk a mile home late at night. Probably not a good idea. I would love to go to the dojo and watch, but my motorcycle was totaled in a bad accident and later I sold it for parts. I have no automobile or motorcycle, even though I have a valid license for both. I'd have to get my parents to take me, which they won't do, my friend Kelly might but I'm not sure shell want to wait an hour and half until the class is over... I'll ask her or try and contact her today, thanks.

Diana Frese
10-18-2012, 06:29 PM
Glad you got reassurance from the doctor that it will heal okay and not take too much time. Lots of good advice from everyone, too. Just a little suggestion I just thought of, not sure if they told my husband to put his neck brace back on if on a bus, etc. before it was given more time to heal, but the idea I might have gotten from somebody or other was to put the arm back in a sling for the bus ride and then take it off when you arrive, until it is healed more thoroughly.

By the way, your buses seem wilder than the New York subways. If I remember correctly, the west side was usually okay but the few times I took the east side it was a bit wild, kinda swaying back and forth while racing down the tra ck. Just kidding around because it's a big relief you're gonna be okay!

Linda Eskin
10-19-2012, 12:05 PM
Yay! That's great news. :-)

A trick I've used for taking off t-shirts (post-shoulder-surgery, and after injuring mine) is to lean forward and let your arm hang "up" over your head - like raising your arm, but upside down, so you aren't using muscles to do it.

To put a t-shirt on, stand normally, put the hand on the injured side into the arm hole, and pull the shirt up to your armpit, and then put it over your head and other arm, again keeping the injured side completely relaxed.

By the way, both of my shoulders are "sprung" (what my orthopedic guy called that bump)... Doesn't seem to cause me any trouble. :-)

SparkErosion
10-20-2012, 11:35 PM
More good news yay!! Posted: Oct 20, 2012 9:31pm
Arm is getting much better, little to very low moderate pain now. I was able to take off the sling and have little to no pain from the healing. The doctor said to take the sling off in 4 days , 2weeks at the latest and at this point said the sling would make the arm too stiff. I removed the sling, I can now move my shoulders and arms, without pain, behind my back, sides, front and side from extended arm from shoulder,the anti inflammation meds are helping a lot, I can now flex or tense my muscles with no pain. I'm doing physical therapy sessions by myself by doing downward arm swings to engage even more mobility. Any movement overhead is very painful , he said to avoid and NOt do that. I won't. I'm being extra careful, taking time for it to heal. Thanks guys for the support, Kevin .

Krystal Locke
10-21-2012, 10:13 AM
Do not jump back into aikido too vigorously. Even though the pain is mostly gone, do not stop doing therapy and strengthening exercises. Work out a new plan with your sensei so that you do not re-injure yourself.

SparkErosion
10-21-2012, 03:30 PM
Do not jump back into aikido too vigorously. Even though the pain is mostly gone, do not stop doing therapy and strengthening exercises. Work out a new plan with your sensei so that you do not re-injure yourself.
.will do. Im going to avoidall ukemi when I go back, I wil do the preliminary tenkan and irimi exercises
, and be the nage, avoiding being thrown etc. if I need help , ill observe others. thanks guys

SparkErosion
10-24-2012, 01:12 PM
Went to aikido yesterday, learned an aikitaiso blending technique for using kyokunage against a yokomenchi strike. Step, pivot, step back. Very basic movements. I'll post a video later of it, it's going to be very rigid, I haven't gotten it to lend well yet, I want to know if the basic movement/technique is correct! For example, when I first started learning it yesterday , I'd have me right foot back. I'd step with that foot , pivot, and step forward . I ended up with the right foot as always the back foot, which I think is wrong. Now when I do it, I think I learned the footwork right, so I step back after pivoting, and the right foot is initially back, then the left is in back, then right again. I'm learning ude furi choyaku undo. At first I just did the spin, ude furi undo, now slowly I'm coordinating the arms with it. I'm beginning to see how it applies. Is it ok if I post a video of it to make sure I'm using correct technique , just to be sure? Thanks!! Kevin

Krystal Locke
10-24-2012, 01:19 PM
Feel free to post videos, but please remember that your sensei is the person who should be telling you your technique is correct or not, not us. You picked that person to be your teacher, you pay that person to be your teacher, let that person be your teacher. The best we can give you is opinion, not instruction.

Glad you are feeling better.

Janet Rosen
10-24-2012, 03:04 PM
Is it ok if I post a video of it to make sure I'm using correct technique , just to be sure? Thanks!! Kevin

I don't think this is the right forum for that feedback.
Here you have people from a variety of styles within aikido, some from outside aikido, a huge range of experience levels, etc....which actually is NOT going to be helpful because you are learning something specific to your dojo and only your teacher knows what it is s/he expects from you at this time.

SparkErosion
10-24-2012, 03:38 PM
I don't think this is the right forum for that feedback.
Here you have people from a variety of styles within aikido, some from outside aikido, a huge range of experience levels, etc....which actually is NOT going to be helpful because you are learning something specific to your dojo and only your teacher knows what it is s/he expects from you at this time.
Yes it is kind of specific to my dojo, I let my sensei know and his friend who is the same aikido rank and also an teacher there.

Krystal Locke
10-24-2012, 04:03 PM
So, Kevin, where do you train? Just curious....

SparkErosion
10-27-2012, 02:35 PM
Five Rings Aikido in Tempe arizona. Our sensei is a sandan.
We also have another teacher who is (I think) the same rank and sometimes teaches. He focues more on striking and doing damage (atemi, not feinting) attacks as well as techniques.

Sensei Jim Clark focuses more on doing no harm, but both have a different philosphy from one another.

Jim Clark Sensei is our main teacher, Gene only fills when he is out of town.

There are many aspects of of Aikido why people choose it. Philosphy, physical, fitness, spiritual, practicaility. I chose above all, practicality as #1, and philosphy (morally) as #2. I don't believe in harming an attacker unless in a life or death situation, and as a last resort at that.

Its focused more on practical techniques, not on some 'fu fu' schools where apparantly I guess the nage does not attack with energy, and the uke just "falls down" without the nage doing much.

Also we are constantly reminded how real life applications of aikido are important, as well as practical applications in case of dangerous situations sometimes.Such as instead a circular strike to the head with the hands, it could be a bat, beer bottle, knife, sword (unlikely haha), hook punch, etc. Safety is #1, we do free style (randori) starting at our first belt (yellow belt,5th kyu, 1 man randori) which is what I am very close to testing for.

For that randori, it is yokomenchi strike to the head as the nage's attack and for the uke's defense kokyunage which is a basic technique I think taught to beginners alot.
I feel it is one of the most simpliest and easier techniques.

To help with the kokyonage, I've gotten alot better at a blending technique that derives from the ude furi undo, its called ude furi choyaku undo. It helps with randori and movement in all techniques, teaches you how to move I think, and also can be a direct application of kokyunage, as the movement, and hip pivoting from the center provide alot of the unbalancing, as well as the extension of the nage's body and leading the arm down and then up, then dropping the weight at the end after unbalancing to finissh the projection.

To do this, we do it a little differently. We make like a triangle with the fingers of both hands, similir to how you might roll forward (with both of the hands), and keep it front of the face directly at all times. This helps me know which direction i'm facing and be aware of keeping my hands in front o fme for defense at all times, I believe. My teacher said this choyaku technique (blending excerise) can be a direct application to yoko kokyunage.

I do it by taking a step forward from (left foot behind, right foot slightly forward) with my left foot, pivot on both feet, and take a step back from the opposite foot. I end up the facing the opposite direction I came, along with the back feet being reversed (left foot behind, after pivoting and stepping back, right foot behind). In a smooth motion it is one movement.

SparkErosion
03-15-2013, 03:31 PM
Hi guys, just wanted to make an update. It's been some time since I last posted here.

It's healed completely. However, the pain still lingers.

Its not alot of pain at all, but it hurts sometimes a decent amount and then it goes away. For a short moment I have some pain, (several seconds) then the pain goes away again. I'm wondering if this is normal or if I'm always going to have pain with this injury. I still cannot sleep on my left side, due to the strain on the shoulder.

I passed my first test (yellow belt, rokkyu) successfully after the injury recently.

It mostly hurts when I roll. Rolling on my left side (which is my 'good' side, I roll best on my left side for some reason) properly with very low impact still gives it some pain. Taking ukemi to a kaiten nage is painful sometimes.

Rolling backwards it doesn't really hurt/barely hurts at all. just forward on the left side. Certain positions seem to hurt more.

I know you guys aren't doctors, but has anyone here experienced the same thing? What helped you with it? Has the pain gone away for you completely?

Kevin Leavitt
03-15-2013, 06:45 PM
Did have time to read through all the post. I was thrown in practice last year with a uechi Mata and suffered a rockwood IV complete AC joint separation. Surgery 5 days later. I have fiberwire holding my joint together. I am a BJJ and Judo player.

I will no longer compete in Judo because of it. In BJJ I most likely won't compete again either. However I am 47 as well. I will also modify my practice in Aikido some as well.

However, it does not mean I cannot train and it did not really keep me off the mat much. I was back up to speed in 9 months.

I am also an active duty infantry officer and I do alpine climbing. Not too much affect.

Really what I watch is getting thrown and landing hard on it and some one cranking on it which they shouildnt anyway. BJJ I can still roll full out but I do tap as my range of motion is still limited a little.

Just modify your training and you should be dine. It does not mean you cannot train, only that u must modify what u do.

Kevin Leavitt
03-15-2013, 06:48 PM
Oh...I don't do forward rolls too much as I am concerned with the weight if I screw it up. Done enough of em anyway over the years.

Do physical therapy to strengthen the shoulder. I am doing kettle bells and Indian clubs which work real well and range of motion and conditioning.

lbb
03-17-2013, 06:53 AM
Its not alot of pain at all, but it hurts sometimes a decent amount and then it goes away. For a short moment I have some pain, (several seconds) then the pain goes away again. I'm wondering if this is normal or if I'm always going to have pain with this injury. I still cannot sleep on my left side, due to the strain on the shoulder.

Five months is not very long to heal an orthopedic injury. As previously stated:

Talk to your doctor
FULLY describe the activities that cause discomfort
FULLY describe the nature of the discomfort
Listen to what your doctor says and follow his/her recommendations
Make your peace with the fact that there are no guarantees

...or don't. That's what I would do if I wanted to address the problem in a way most likely to result in a positive outcome (which does not necessarily mean "no more pain ever"). What you do is up to you.

Rob Watson
03-18-2013, 11:10 AM
I had a mild A/C seperation (~1cm) and it was fully 1 year before there was no pain. Keep up with the PT - particularly range of motion work.

Favoring one side for too long will set in some problems so work on strength and conditioning to restore balance on the "bad" side.

Janet Rosen
03-18-2013, 12:47 PM
My mild AC separation from 1997 still bothers me in very cold damp weather to the degree I can't sleep on that side. Yes, I did let it heal well. Sometimes we have to live with consequences even when we minimize the risk of poor outcomes.

Walter Martindale
03-18-2013, 05:50 PM
I've separated my AC on the right side early on in aikido.
In 2008 a fellow named Hamish Bond was hit by a truck while cycling and separated his shoulder. Last time I saw him you could probably fit your thumb between his clavicle and his scapula. (collar bone and shoulder-blade)
He's also raced at the Beijing Olympics, won the world championships in the pair in 09, 10, and 11, and won the London Olympics with no connection between the two bones, training up to 6 hours per day 6 days per week for 11 months a year since Beijing.
In one interview he was asked about his shoulder separation (this was a while ago)

'Eagerly, the university student asks: "Want to see it?"
Without waiting for an answer, Bond rotates his shoulder forward to reveal the collarbone protruding well away from his shoulder.
"I separated my shoulder (when he was hit while out cycling). Basically my collarbone isn't attached to the shoulder blade but it doesn't really bother me."'

You can do a lot with a separated shoulder. Proper physio and proper rehab exercises are important.

john2054
04-02-2013, 04:12 PM
Hi Kevin, you may be interested to know that in July 1997 I fractured my neck in a road traffic accident leading to three months coma, a head injury and a fused neck vertebrae c3-c8. I also now suffer from schizophrenia and so can relate to your mental health issues. My injuries have also left me with noisy breathing.

Not to be beaten however i have dabbled with martial arts over the years, and after about 40 hours mat time my local sensei told me that he thought that i am about ready for my first grading (yellow belt). Well not to be rushed, I have suggested to him that we delay it by a bit so that i can learn more of the syllabus. I don't know if you feel this way but there sure are a lot of throws and holds to learn. But be this as it may, i can generally do the techniques when shown how, and so in consequence I am considering asking him about this grading again when i see him this week, to see if he is still happy for me to take it.

Please note in our dojo there is no randori and it is just waza. I think that this is the traditional rote.

Janet Rosen
04-02-2013, 06:03 PM
Good for you - for getting in to training and keeping with it to the point your teacher is pleased with your progress! Just a note...in general...most instructors have a good sense of when one of their students is ready, even if we the students don't feel quite "there." :)

Hi Kevin, you may be interested to know that in July 1997 I fractured my neck in a road traffic accident leading to three months coma, a head injury and a fused neck vertebrae c3-c8. I also now suffer from schizophrenia and so can relate to your mental health issues. My injuries have also left me with noisy breathing.

Not to be beaten however i have dabbled with martial arts over the years, and after about 40 hours mat time my local sensei told me that he thought that i am about ready for my first grading (yellow belt). Well not to be rushed, I have suggested to him that we delay it by a bit so that i can learn more of the syllabus. I don't know if you feel this way but there sure are a lot of throws and holds to learn. But be this as it may, i can generally do the techniques when shown how, and so in consequence I am considering asking him about this grading again when i see him this week, to see if he is still happy for me to take it.

Please note in our dojo there is no randori and it is just waza. I think that this is the traditional rote.

Krystal Locke
04-06-2013, 06:36 PM
Good for you - for getting in to training and keeping with it to the point your teacher is pleased with your progress! Just a note...in general...most instructors have a good sense of when one of their students is ready, even if we the students don't feel quite "there." :)

Do me a huge favor and remind me of that a few times over the next couple weeks, m'kay?