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Chris Knight
05-18-2012, 07:38 AM
Sat on my lunch-break mulling over a few thoughts

I'm a young 30 year old - I'm torn between building my body up with muscle for vanity and a bit more power (as well as to keep the wife happy:D ) or to concentrate solely on internal development at the detriment of muscle mass searching for the untapped power that is available, to incorporate into my aikido.(tm)

What if I get stuck in-between, where I suck at internal strength, and don't build myself up with muscle - I have a friend who practices with me who doesn't understand my internal strength quest, and likes to be all muscle - he's fairly strong, but will never understand the potential that's available, and will never be interested either.

Has anyone else thought about this?:confused:

gregstec
05-18-2012, 07:50 AM
well, being a not so young 60 year old, i don't have those external pressures of other people's expectations - so, i just focus on the internal expectations of me just being myself - enjoy your journey :)

greg

chillzATL
05-18-2012, 08:45 AM
If you liked to paint and you sucked would you just give up? IMO, with all the info that's out there now, all the people you can meet and all the efforts to take this stuff out of the purple smoke mystical realm and make it a fairly easy to grasp method of body conditioning and usage, the only way you'll suck is if you aren't putting in the time and trying. Beyond that, it's a hobby, not something our lives or livelihoods depends on. I think too much is made about the whole "wrong path" thing. Just like everything in life it's a process of learning, doing, improving, finding better methods, re-learning, doing and improving, rinse and repeat. As long as you're honest with yourself it should be fun.

Oh and you can work out, stay in shape and do IS.

Dazzler
05-18-2012, 09:01 AM
www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgPDdWirzBA

@chris....if you need help "working out".

Chris Knight
05-18-2012, 10:31 AM
f you liked to paint and you sucked would you just give up? IMO, with all the info that's out there now, all the people you can meet and all the efforts to take this stuff out of the purple smoke mystical realm and make it a fairly easy to grasp method of body conditioning and usage, the only way you'll suck is if you aren't putting in the time and trying. Beyond that, it's a hobby, not something our lives or livelihoods depends on. I think too much is made about the whole "wrong path" thing. Just like everything in life it's a process of learning, doing, improving, finding better methods, re-learning, doing and improving, rinse and repeat. As long as you're honest with yourself it should be fun.

Oh and you can work out, stay in shape and do IS.

cheers jason , you are right, i just wonder what happens if i put the time and effort in and still suck afterwards!

i always thought that you cant work out with this method of training as it goes against what your working for??

@daz - how do you know me so well...- can you picture it lol!

@ greg - the wife aint bothered if i have the six pack really, it's just i get a bit of a complex when she keeps going on about Peter Andre....:)

Chris Parkerson
05-18-2012, 10:34 AM
I take it you are suggesting that weight training binds and constricts muscles, thus it works against the goals of internal training. For the most part, you are probably right. But there are many ways to maintain a tight yet flexible frame.

Yoga, Pilates, Dance, Core training as done by many arts, swimming, gardening, cycling, running, wrestling....

aspen
05-18-2012, 10:37 AM
Have you considered crossfit? It might provide the right balance between workable strength and movement.

chillzATL
05-18-2012, 11:16 AM
cheers jason , you are right, i just wonder what happens if i put the time and effort in and still suck afterwards!

i always thought that you cant work out with this method of training as it goes against what your working for??



IMO if you get some decent instruction and apply some logical thought to what you're doing, put in the time, including getting out and working with people who are better than you, it'd be pretty hard to really truly suck. I mean we're all going to suck in relation to someone out there. There's always someone better, always. At the very least you should get to a point where this stuff makes a marked difference in your aikido training. You feel things differently and feel different to the people you train with. At that point they shouldn't think you suck and hopefully they're either already doing what you're doing too or will want to do it and then you have training partners!

It would probably avoid it initially, until you get to where you kind of know the point behind the various things you're doing, physically, and can tell when you're doing things one way vs. the other. At that point I think you can pretty clearly separate the two types of body conditioning, but I'd also say at that point you'll pick one over the other because why spend the time building big muscles on the outside when you're trying to avoid using them? You'll stay plenty toned doing the IS stuff, especially when you hit the point that you're trying to do things that way no matter what you're doing (gardening, etc), you're just not going to have bulging pecs, biceps, etc.

graham christian
05-18-2012, 11:18 AM
Chris, one does not detract from the other. A good friend of mine has done both for years and is now 54 yrs old looking like a well ripped, strong 30 yr old.

The only down side is when he demonstrates things to others it's thus so easy for them or especially for those watching from the outside to believe it's down to his muscular frame, ha, ha.

I would say they help each other. I must add though that he is very health conscious too and takes plenty of nutrition and fresh foods and doesn't drink or smoke or take any kind of medications.

So go for it I would say.

P.S.....Don't forget to get a shirt with an S on the chest though.:)

Chris Li
05-18-2012, 11:52 AM
Sat on my lunch-break mulling over a few thoughts

I'm a young 30 year old - I'm torn between building my body up with muscle for vanity and a bit more power (as well as to keep the wife happy:D ) or to concentrate solely on internal development at the detriment of muscle mass searching for the untapped power that is available, to incorporate into my aikido.(tm)

What if I get stuck in-between, where I suck at internal strength, and don't build myself up with muscle - I have a friend who practices with me who doesn't understand my internal strength quest, and likes to be all muscle - he's fairly strong, but will never understand the potential that's available, and will never be interested either.

Has anyone else thought about this?:confused:

In theory, you can do both at the same time. In practice, I think that the heavy muscle work will most likely screw you up for the other stuff.

Building muscle mass is fairly straightforward and easily accomplished if you put in the time, I'd put it aside for a while and work on the other stuff, which is much more difficult.

Best,

Chris

lbb
05-18-2012, 11:56 AM
cheers jason , you are right, i just wonder what happens if i put the time and effort in and still suck afterwards!

Well, then you burst into tears and choose a spectacular way to end your life. Right?

What do you mean by "suck", anyway? If you were good at whatever it is you pursue, how would you know it? What if you got no external validation, ever, no matter how good you were -- could you live with that? Or would that be the same thing as sucking, in your view?

Chris Parkerson
05-18-2012, 01:13 PM
Sonny Puzikas, former Spetznaz, (featured on Deadliest Warriors - Spetznaz versus Green Berets) uses kettle bells. He is pure "no-nonsense" about training and trade craft.

Here is "The Forge" training he promotes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePUbQhO69QE&feature=youtube_gdata_player

If anyone wonders what his defensives look like, notice his use of Aiki in his systema here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qh-EvD4T8cI&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Chris Knight
05-18-2012, 04:49 PM
mary its unlike you to be sarcastic. ..

hi Chris. what are you defining as aiki in the video as i know everyone has their own interpretation etc.

mary in reply to your ever witty thoughts. .. im a concert pianist andhave been blessed with a gift of performing to an extent although i know my limitations hence i can validate myself. in martial arts it is the same. i know im a beginner but i also know that one day i should feel comfortable and competent to an extent. its all about striving for your own potential not anybody elses.

i can pick up any instrument and play a tune and when i have this competence or flexibility in martial arts ill be satisfied

Chris

Chris Parkerson
05-18-2012, 06:13 PM
Sonny was trained by the USSR in Systema. Before that he was a bouncer in a rough Russian night club.

He is naturally relaxed and knows how to touch center and move center with efficiency rather than strength. Thus, Aiki is present. His core strength training does not inhibit his technique.

I am on IPhone and cannot point to minutes and seconds on a YouTube because of it's limitations. But during his hand-to-hand section, I easily identified ikkyo, Mae otoshi, heaven and earth, what we in Yanagi call tomoi sonako otosh. There were a host of others as well.

But, he, like many of us, no longer think of technique. We simply work with principles and body memory.

The point of this entry was to show that certain strength and toning training methods do not necessarily bind you up and prevent good internal technique.

lbb
05-18-2012, 06:28 PM
i can pick up any instrument and play a tune and when i have this competence or flexibility in martial arts ill be satisfied

And if you never got that kind of validation, what then? Would that be "sucking"?

I'm not arguing that you should have other standards. I'm just curious about what you will do if you can't meet them, no matter how hard or how long you train. You may never get to kind of fluency in martial arts that's equivalent to what you feel in music. Would you rather just not train at all if there's a good chance of that happening?

Again, I'm not trying to convince you that you should feel otherwise than what you do.

(and yes, I am witty as hell)