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Paula Lydon
06-30-2002, 10:36 AM
I'm not certain how to put this, so please bare with me if I ramble...which I tend to do under the best of circumstances.
We talk, debate and harangue in these forums about techniques, training, teachers, ego management, what to wear, feelings of anger, frustration, violence, etc.; My question is: What about love? Singular or Universal. What about attraction, bonding, unconditional caring and the movement of all those energies when we're working so darn hard on opening, connecting, sensing and 'being' with our partner? It seems this is a huge forbidden topic--like the elephant in the livingroom that no one seems to notice--and yet catches everyone off-guard at some point in their training. Yet we don't share this one thing with each other, we stuff it away because society, religion, whatever, has so many rules about it.
Hey, I can break your nose but I can't touch you tenderly even though that's how I'm feeling toward you...is that sick or what?
It's very confusing, these arising energies, for people new to training and they have no real way of understand as natural, processing or transmuting these energies because it's just not discussed. And yet, these are the connections that so much of training is about. Are you training first and foremost to dump someone on their ass or, by your internal understanding of energy, calm them, help them change their violent output and maybe go for coffee? We want to use Aikido in daily life...Well, just how often are you physically attacked? Can't say the last time I remember, but these other occurances happen often.
So in the dojo setting you've got the married-forever mother of twelve with a sudden, freightening crush on her instructor; the shy guy thinking he's a freak because he either wants or loathes every woman he trains with; the woman who painfully finds herself attracted to another woman...:freaky: All of this is natural and a part of growth when observed and understood in the correct context. But how to do that when the subject's taboo..?
Any and all thoughts welcome :circle: :square: :triangle: :D

IrimiTom
06-30-2002, 12:18 PM
What about love? Singular or Universal
I think that is the key to this taboo. Most people think individually when they say "love". I mean it is "you" loving he, she, they, whatever. The kind of love I believe we should try to achieve through aikido is not singular or even emotional, but it is what I think you are referring to as universal. I mean there are few people who dedicate their time to improving the quality of others' lives, without any ulterior motive at all. Just my humble opinion.

SeiserL
06-30-2002, 04:24 PM
Love, what's the taboo? Love your training and love who you train with. Its natural to bond with people over time in a mutually engaging and beneficial activity. No taboo.

Until again,

Lynn

Genex
07-01-2002, 07:23 AM
love? no probs i love being with the guys at aikido they're a laugh i love doing aikido with them cause again its a laugh not to mention kewl and i have two friends their whom i love as brothers anyhoo, we now get to fight like brothers (who know aikido) too.

love its all around, cant wait till my wife gets to practace too i'll give her a year tho maybe after the babies born, (hmm i'll have a size -0001 please, yeah thats it the Gi that looks like a baby grow ;) ).

pete
Seishin Kai

Tim Griffiths
07-01-2002, 08:44 AM
Originally posted by Paula Lydon
{Snip first good bit}
Hey, I can break your nose but I can't touch you tenderly even though that's how I'm feeling toward you...is that sick or what?


It would be, but that isn't what's happening. I don't particularly want you to touch me tenderly (at least, not on the mat), and I don't want you to break my nose either. Both actions done deliberately will get you in trouble. I want to train and learn, and I want you to help me. In return I can help you.

It's very confusing, these arising energies, for people new to training and they have no real way of understand as natural, processing or transmuting these energies because it's just not discussed.

I guess that's very dojo-dependent. Its talked about, understood and known in our dojo, and occupies a good section of every after-practice drinking conversation. Most people hug after the class. There's lots of lounging around, goofing around and messing around after the class to help dissipate these energies before we go home to our spouses. We go on weekend retreats together, spend a lot of our (very valuable) free time together, and in a real sense trust each other with our lives. Here in Israel, everyone's been in the army, and people compare the closeness of the dojo with the closeness of their unit - with the advantage of better food and not having to see your friends get hurt (you can hurt them yourself). It's real love, and it attracts and keeps people.

Of course, not all dojos are like this. But not all are not like this either. It's not an aikido problem. Its a tight-arse problem.


All of this is natural and a part of growth when observed and understood in the correct context. But how to do that when the subject's taboo..?


Same as every other taboo, open your mouth and talk about it. It's much better to do it in real life than in the forums, though. These are difficult things to put into words, and here we excel in misunderstanding...

Train beautifully,

Tim

Bruce Baker
07-01-2002, 09:14 AM
Funny thing about love and like, there has to be a separation of love verses love that leads to sexual involvement. Is that the taboo you are leading to?

If you get beyond the factual actual involvement of loving to do something verses being drawn into a mental or physical attraction, I would say to keep the two separated if you like to practice Aikido verses getting into degree's of love.

It is a description of your commitment to keeping violence out of your description and the degree of passion you feel for something.

Finding that we use the physical manifestation of love, falling in love, being in love as some of our most intense feelings we associate this physical emotion with things we are most enamoured to.

Emotional attachment to our practice in the form of sexual love for our practice, partners, or teachers merely acts to misinterpret the true meaning and understanding of Aikido.

On the other hand, the existential love, the detachment of what we call "Like" is the thinking love that opens our opportunity to think on a greater level of understanding.

Keep sexual love off the mat.

"Like" is the area of description that should remain, even if it is deeper than that, the truth that love and hate are the same emotion only a hair apart will not come into being.

Hence, the taboo of love is merely the foresight of it turning to hate.

At least that is my understanding of watching others get caught up in this taboo.

Me? My wife sometimes picks a fight so we can make up. It's pretty funny, because I have learned to walk away, half way into an arguement and apologise later.

It's those dame rules about the woman always being right, and being able to change their mind even if they are wrong? If you can live by those Catch 22 rules ... now that is Aikido in practice!

ChristianBoddum
07-01-2002, 10:01 AM
Hi everyone !
I think it's important to make the distinction
between the love that is related to emotions,
and the the love that is practiced through actions.
Like, I am to to love my fellow man,even if I don't like him.So I learn to live in a loving
way which produce results and put my emotions second.
You can get fooled by people who appear tough
and rejecting,yet they may have hearts as big as mountains.Especially in the martial world,
I have come to learn that when you are appreciated in training you do not get backpatting but greater challenges.Sometimes
I think you should tell beginners that when
you make progress you will get more critizised - if they don't know the culture,but then again the real martial awarenes comes from finding out by figuring things out by observing.
Like in civilian life,your boss maybe is applying the same practice because he thinks
you will grow with pressure,but since this is not out in the open,you may get it wrong and
start loathing your job,if however you have
learned through training that being critizised
if a sign of confidence in you,you will handle
job-pressures much better and grow with it.
So what is love ??
Have a nice day !
yours - Chr.B.