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robin_jet_alt
01-26-2012, 05:21 AM
I'm going to go out on a limb here and just say it... I don't know... I don't understand... I'm looking forward to training on Saturday morning. That is all.

Mark Freeman
01-26-2012, 05:42 AM
I'm going to go out on a limb here and just say it... I don't know... I don't understand... I'm looking forward to training on Saturday morning. That is all.

Hi Robin,

interesting start to a thread (I don't think it will hit the numbers that the undying "Aikido does not work etc" thread has achieved;) ).

However, what you declare is "beginners mind" - we would all benefit from aspiring to this state.

So much here is written from the point of 'knowing' (or claiming to know).

What is it though, that you do not know? What is it that you do not understand? And how do you know that you don't know? Just a few curious questions. :)

enjoy your training,

regards,

Mark (who sometimes has more questions than answers)

Mary Eastland
01-26-2012, 07:02 AM
I know a little and have a lot to learn. I love being in the question.

lbb
01-26-2012, 07:49 AM
Robin, I wish you were here so you could come by the dojo and we could not-know and not-understand together, and then I could take you out to the People's Pint for one (or more) of our fine local beers. Truly, I like the way you think.

Good training to ya.

Mark Mueller
01-26-2012, 08:14 AM
Reminds me of something Saotome Sensei says....."I know one thing, I know nothing".

David Orange
01-26-2012, 09:44 AM
Reminds me of something Saotome Sensei says....."I know one thing, I know nothing".

Peter Ralston (Principles of Effortless Power) says that not knowing is where the most important things happen.

I'll try to find the exact quote. He says i repeatedly, I believe (but I don't know...).

David

grondahl
01-26-2012, 10:14 AM
How very Socrates of you.

Mark Uttech
01-26-2012, 10:38 AM
Beginner's Mind is the best thing to keep. In time you will be surprised how hard it is to keep!

DonMagee
01-26-2012, 03:23 PM
I feel the opposite problem. I know exactly what I'm trying to do, I just can't do it :-)

They say "No, you have to do it like this"

I say "I know! I'm trying!"

I enjoy the struggle.

mathewjgano
01-26-2012, 03:30 PM
I'm going to go out on a limb here and just say it... I don't know... I don't understand... I'm looking forward to training on Saturday morning. That is all.

evileyes I bet I don't know more than you do!:p :D
Gambatte!
Take care,
Matt

gates
01-26-2012, 08:37 PM
Getting it. Got it. Lost it. Repeat.

Chasing rainbows.
A dog catching it's tail.
Seeing deeper and deeper into outer space with bigger and better telescopes.
It runs away from us BECAUSE we are chasing it.

As Don said, enjoy the struggle, the destination is always running away from us anyway. I feel a little sorry for those who think, "know" they have got there. Must be boring with nowhere to go !

David Orange
01-26-2012, 09:13 PM
How very Socrates of you.

The body is the sock of ki.

That much, I do know.

philipsmith
01-27-2012, 01:16 AM
I'm going to go out on a limb here and just say it... I don't know... I don't understand... I'm looking forward to training on Saturday morning. That is all.

The more I learn, the more I learn how little I know. -- Socrates

The more you know, the less you understand. -- Lao-Tse

The more you learn, the more you know. The more you know, the more you forget. The more you forget, the less you know. So why bother to learn? -- George Bernard Shaw

or definitively Red Hot Chilli Peppers in Snow (hey oh)

robin_jet_alt
01-27-2012, 01:18 AM
Hi Robin,

interesting start to a thread (I don't think it will hit the numbers that the undying "Aikido does not work etc" thread has achieved;) ).

However, what you declare is "beginners mind" - we would all benefit from aspiring to this state.

So much here is written from the point of 'knowing' (or claiming to know).

What is it though, that you do not know? What is it that you do not understand? And how do you know that you don't know? Just a few curious questions. :)

enjoy your training,

regards,

Mark (who sometimes has more questions than answers)

Good questions. I don't know about IS for example. I've never met Dan etc. and I have no way to judge its value. Of course, that is just an example, and there are plenty of other things that I don't know or understand. I'm sure I don't know what half of them are yet.

The post was in response to a lot of the discourse in which many people claim that their way is best or that others don't understand. I thought I should just come out with it and say that, "no, I don't understand". There is nothing wrong with that, but I am enjoying my training and hopefully getting something out of it.

That pint sounds good, Mary. If I am ever up your way, let's get one.

Mark Freeman
01-27-2012, 07:00 AM
The body is the sock of ki.
That much, I do know.

David, you and your metaphors, cats, trees, socks, I don't know;)

What sort of sock? ankle? knee high? wool, cotton, nylon? hand knitted, machine made? Does this mean that ki is a foot? or is ki afoot? What happens if you put the sock through the wash too many times? Can the ki leak out and stain things?

Sockofki - a little known russian aikidoka?:)

regards,

Mark
p.s. This much I know - I don't take things seriously enough:D

phitruong
01-27-2012, 07:12 AM
i don't know what i don't know. what i know none of which nonsense knowledge knows not never-mind no how. :)

Jonathan
01-27-2012, 09:32 AM
It seems to me that if, after, say, twenty years of training or so, you are still saying "I don't know anything" you are either very stupid or guilty of false modesty.

Shadowfax
01-27-2012, 02:27 PM
“He who knows not and knows not he knows not: he is a fool - shun him.
He who knows not and knows he knows not: he is simple - teach him.
He who knows and knows not he knows: he is asleep - wake him.
He who knows and knows he knows: he is wise - follow him.”
~attributed to various authors...

Rob Watson
01-27-2012, 02:45 PM
Follow your nose ... it always knows!
Attributed to some knowitall Toucan

Keith Larman
01-27-2012, 03:55 PM
It seems to me that if, after, say, twenty years of training or so, you are still saying "I don't know anything" you are either very stupid or guilty of false modesty.
Or maybe you just need to find a better place to train...

George S. Ledyard
01-27-2012, 04:26 PM
I'm going to go out on a limb here and just say it... I don't know... I don't understand... I'm looking forward to training on Saturday morning. That is all.

My favorite quote from Ushiro Kenji Sensei in his latest book
"What you know is the enemy of learning."

David Orange
01-27-2012, 04:35 PM
David, you and your metaphors, cats, trees, socks, I don't know;)

Gotta prove I'm a writer somehow...:D

What sort of sock? ankle? knee high? wool, cotton, nylon? hand knitted, machine made? Does this mean that ki is a foot? or is ki afoot? What happens if you put the sock through the wash too many times? Can the ki leak out and stain things?

It's a body sock.

Peace.

David

(actually, look for my upcoming thread on facial expression and development of IS/Aiki! I explain the sock idea completely in that!)

Stephen Fasen
01-28-2012, 10:43 PM
1st dan: I don't know, but I know I can know
2nd dan: I don't know, but I know I know more than you don't know.
3rd dan: I don't know why you don't know what I know.
4th dan: I don't know if I am supposed to know as much as I don't know.
5th dan: I don't know if I ever will know.
6th dan: I don't know, but I hope you don't know I don't know.
7th dan: I don't know that I will never know what I don't know.
8th dan: I don't know I don't know, but I don't know if that is important.
9th dan: I don't know if I ever knew that what I don't know is to be known.
Dead

robin_jet_alt
01-29-2012, 12:36 AM
1st dan: I don't know, but I know I can know
2nd dan: I don't know, but I know I know more than you don't know.
3rd dan: I don't know why you don't know what I know.
4th dan: I don't know if I am supposed to know as much as I don't know.
5th dan: I don't know if I ever will know.
6th dan: I don't know, but I hope you don't know I don't know.
7th dan: I don't know that I will never know what I don't know.
8th dan: I don't know I don't know, but I don't know if that is important.
9th dan: I don't know if I ever knew that what I don't know is to be known.
Dead

But how do you know that?

Mark Freeman
01-29-2012, 06:31 AM
(actually, look for my upcoming thread on facial expression and development of IS/Aiki! I explain the sock idea completely in that!)

Hi David

I look forward to it,

regards,

Mark

c walker
01-29-2012, 04:11 PM
That is a great attitude to have Robin. I always liked " Ive learned so much from my mistakes I`m thinking of making some more"

TheAikidoka
02-24-2012, 08:14 PM
Hi Robin that is beautiful :-)

My sensei is going to Japan with a group this April, to the butokuden in Kyoto japan, he is a kyoshi 7th dan, Daihyo (official representative of the butokukai) for the Uk.

Last night I watched and listened as he talked to the group going (unfortunately without me :-( ), and he said, just remember none of us know what we are doing so lets get it all wrong together, in that way we all learn share and experience it together as one. Not as though we are an all knowing separate entity, but as ONE.

In Budo

Andy B

sakumeikan
02-25-2012, 04:54 AM
Getting it. Got it. Lost it. Repeat.

Chasing rainbows.
A dog catching it's tail.
Seeing deeper and deeper into outer space with bigger and better telescopes.
It runs away from us BECAUSE we are chasing it.

As Don said, enjoy the struggle, the destination is always running away from us anyway. I feel a little sorry for those who think, "know" they have got there. Must be boring with nowhere to go !

Dear Keith,
Your opening sentence [for those with a long memory] reminds me of a Danny Kaye movie -The Court Jester , wherein Danny has a phrase eg Danny [quote ] Get it? Basil Rathbone {quote ]Got it. Danny [ quote ]Good. This phrase is said throughout the picture.Danny is hilarious in the movie.See it and laugh your socks off. Get it?Got it /Good. Cheers, Joe.

Dave Gallagher
02-25-2012, 08:51 AM
I don't know much that is usefull to myself or others. What I do know has been pretty useless. However I prefer the greek philosopher Chrysippus who was a major factor in the Stoic movement. In a rare moment of non Stoicness he got his donky drunk on wine and died of laughter watching the animal eat figs.
Competition is like a donkey eating figs.