Adrenaline-based training?

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[tiberius]

Long time lurker here. I recall reading a thread years and years ago about people in the US who offered adrenaline-based training -- they put you in high stress situations, so you'd start getting tunnel vision, loss of fine motor control, etc, and teach you how to deal with it. Does anybody here have recommendations for anyone running this sort of training?

It doesn't necessarily have to be super martially-oriented. Looking back at my life, I've made some of my biggest mistakes/done some very dumb things when adrenaline kicked in and all my reasoning ability seemed to go out the window. None of those situations were outright fights - some were situations at work, others in personal relationships. I'd love to learn to handle myself better when it happens.

Thanks!

[Michael Neal]

I recommend a martial art that has competition like Judo or BJJ, you will learn to manage your adrenaline much better. The stress of competition really gets the adrenaline pumping and your body adjusts the more experience you have. But any martial art training will help some by increasing your confidence level.

[Michael Neal]

Aikido schools that do multiple partner randori would help as well,

[tiberius]

Thanks for the idea, but I have done aikido and also wrestled for many years, and I've found that even competition doesn't bring out the sort of adrenaline response I'm talking about. Maybe full-out MMA matches would, but I'm not a fan of getting my head pummeled.

I'm looking for something outside the traditional martial arts box. I wish I remembered the details of the original discussion that I saw here years ago.

EDIT: I'm talking about the sort of physical response you get when someone pulls a knife or a gun on you, or when you're alone at home and hear someone breaking in. Or -- totally different yet somehow similar -- when you're told you're likely to be fired from a job you badly need. I've had a very few situations of either sort, and lost my ability to reason, and done dumb things as a result.

I've never felt that debilitating sort of fear on the mat, not even close -- the training didn't carry over.

[kewms]

Maybe not what you were thinking of, but that's sort of a specialty of Systema.

Katherine

[DodgingRain]

Did you try using the search function to really dig in the archives? A quick search turned up this thread.. http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1832&highlight=adrenaline

And maybe not what your thinking of, and kind of the yin to your yang...

many martial arts stress meditation like training for stilling, calming, clearing the mind to be better prepared for high adrenal situations. I dont know how many practitioners really take the mind practice seriously, but it seems pretty universal that real martial artists stress it.

maybe meditation is the practice, and your high stress training is the safe test track to test drive it.

[tiberius]

Perfect. That is indeed the thread. Thank you!

I think I might sign up for this. Anyone here have any experiences with this RMCAT training in recent years?

[SeiserL]

In FMA, we did full contact work in a circle with everyone yelling at us.

Learn to really attack, give permission to resist, make it a spectator event.

We would also do it in the dark and in the parking lot.

And the Emergency Room was just down the street.

Old days.

[Demetrio Cereijo]

Try this:

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/12/08/us/dog-brothers-martial-arts/index.html?hpt=hp_bn2

[Michael Neal]

better yet go to a rowdy biker bar and start hitting on everyone's girlfriends

[Rob Watson]

Before fiddling with bikers try http://www.shinyokai.com/Essays_PCSConditioning.htm

[Kevin Leavitt]

I do this type of training, but only for military guys and with the proper equipment and gear. It really takes a while to run properly and you have to get ramped up for it over a period of several days of repetitive work focused solely on doing this.

I would recommend looking into Tony Blauer's courses if you are interested. They are pretty good and tailored for various specialities.

[Eric Joyce]

Long time lurker here. I recall reading a thread years and years ago about people in the US who offered adrenaline-based training -- they put you in high stress situations, so you'd start getting tunnel vision, loss of fine motor control, etc, and teach you how to deal with it. Does anybody here have recommendations for anyone running this sort of training?

It doesn't necessarily have to be super martially-oriented. Looking back at my life, I've made some of my biggest mistakes/done some very dumb things when adrenaline kicked in and all my reasoning ability seemed to go out the window. None of those situations were outright fights - some were situations at work, others in personal relationships. I'd love to learn to handle myself better when it happens.

Thanks!

Hi James,

I think the recommendations here are very good. One of the venues that I use to replicate that stress/adrenaline feel is my Krav Maga training. I really like the stress training drills and scenarios they put you through. You really get an awareness of the debilitating effects that stress can have on performance. Before the stress drills, we get worked to death with combatives and drills to tire us out. We then move through different scenarios on how the fight could escalate from the verbal confrontation (woofing) to the actual fight. We try to replicate this in different scenarios, sometimes with multiple attackers, by being taken to the ground, with weapons, with loud music, people yelling, in close quarters, in the dark, outside in a parking lot, etc., to make the environment totally chaotic because that's how fights can evolve -- into chaos. Schools may vary on how they implement this type of training. I think it is an integral part of training. Overtime, you begin to get better at managing the stressful effects of a fight rather than having the effects of a fight manage you…if that makes sense.

[tiberius]

Thanks everyone! I have plenty to think about now and options to look into. I appreciate the help.

[George S. Ledyard]

Long time lurker here. I recall reading a thread years and years ago about people in the US who offered adrenaline-based training -- they put you in high stress situations, so you'd start getting tunnel vision, loss of fine motor control, etc, and teach you how to deal with it. Does anybody here have recommendations for anyone running this sort of training?

It doesn't necessarily have to be super martially-oriented. Looking back at my life, I've made some of my biggest mistakes/done some very dumb things when adrenaline kicked in and all my reasoning ability seemed to go out the window. None of those situations were outright fights - some were situations at work, others in personal relationships. I'd love to learn to handle myself better when it happens.

Thanks!

Check out Peyton Quinn and Rocky Mountain Combat Applications Training (http://www.rmcat.com/) He has really pioneered this type of training and has the highly trained instructors and the equipment (important) it takes to do it properly.

Also, check out his book:
Real Fighting: Adrenaline Stress Conditioning Through Scenario-Based Training (http://astore.amazon.com/aikidoeastside/detail/0873648935)

The book is a must read for any serious martial artist I think...
- George

[tiberius]

Thanks, Ledyard-sensei! That program does look like it might be what I'm looking for.

[BHassler]

RMCAT is a good program. Peyton's got a lot of real world experience with violence and violent people. One of the things that differentiates adrenal stress training from something like a sport competition is the context. In a sport fight, you know the rules, you know the timing, and you know what's going to happen within certain parameters. At RMCAT they cheat, they lie, and they "woof," so even if you know what's coming you may not know exactly when or how.

This kind of training is less about technique and more about managing your own fear and responses in challenging situations modeled after real life violence. Whether or not that fits your needs depends on what your goals are. If you want to be more confident on the street or in the boardroom, then it's perfect. If you want to work on your combinations and hip throws under pressure, then you might be better served with intense randori or competition. You can, however, take the lessons you learn in an adrenal stress program back into the dojo-- just realize they're not the same thing.

In my experience, Krav Maga is not the same. There are some great Krav Maga instructors, but it seems like the big organizations in the US are more of a punching-themed fitness program than anything applicable to real world self defense (unless you really want to go to jail for assault). Also, with Krav you're generally hitting pads and not full-on blasting people in the head and groin.

Tony Blauer appears to be a mixed bag. I've met very competent professionals who like what he does and others who hate it. Like anything else, take the information into consideration, go get as much more as you can, and then make your own decisions.

I did the RMCAT program and I really loved it. I found it valuable enough that I'll go back again this year and, if circumstances allow, annually.

Bill Kipp helped Peyton start RMCAT and runs his own program called FAST Defense. While I wouldn't want to give up the immersive experience of RMCAT, FAST offers a wider variety of relatively easily accessible workshops, etc., so that may be a way to get a taste if there's something in your area.

Regards,
Brian