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11-15-2011, 09:54 AM
Posted 2011-11-15 08:43:21 by John Burn
News URL: http://www.chishindojo.co.uk/ikeda-sensei.html

Hiroshi Ikeda sensei will be teaching a seminar in the UK for the first time in April 2012. Chishin Dojo are very proud to have been able to invite Ikeda sensei over and he's agreed to a slightly longer than normal seminar - the end result is that we all get more hands on time with sensei.

Registration is available on the link above - any questions then please go to www.chishindojo.co.uk (http://www.chishindojo.co.uk) and get in touch or email us at info@chishindojo.co.uk (info@chishindojo.co.uk).

The seminar is open to all Aikido folks, no matter your style or association.

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SeiserL
11-15-2011, 02:39 PM
I cannot recommend an Ikeda Sensei seminar high enough.

Please don't miss it.

john.burn
11-16-2011, 05:00 AM
I cannot recommend an Ikeda Sensei seminar high enough.

Please don't miss it.

Hi Lynn,

I couldn't agree more :) This one's been a long time coming for the UK, can't wait!

Mark Headleand
11-16-2011, 08:11 AM
Booked. Looking forward to it! :D

Cheers,
M

john.burn
11-16-2011, 08:33 AM
Thanks Mark :)

phitruong
11-16-2011, 05:03 PM
talked to Ikeda sensei last year and he mentioned about the UK. he said he has not been in UK and looked forward to it. so you guys better take good care of him and have him back here nice and good afterward. otherwise, we would have to cross the pond and challenged you blokes to a drinking duel. it will be ugly and brutal, since we only bring ugly brutes with us. :)

Alex Megann
11-17-2011, 06:29 AM
Sending my cheque off today...

Alex

Alex Megann
11-17-2011, 07:43 AM
Booked. Looking forward to it! :D

Cheers,
M

Mark, is your dojo sponsored by Timberland, by any chance? :)

Alex

Mark Freeman
11-17-2011, 08:19 AM
talked to Ikeda sensei last year and he mentioned about the UK. he said he has not been in UK and looked forward to it. so you guys better take good care of him and have him back here nice and good afterward. otherwise, we would have to cross the pond and challenged you blokes to a drinking duel. it will be ugly and brutal, since we only bring ugly brutes with us. :)

Phi,

you can bring the biggest ugliest brutes you like, but all we would need to do, is fill them up with a few pints of Theakston's "Old Peculiar" or a pint or three of "Old Speckled Hen" and they would be like gibbering babies, unable to knock their way out of a wet paper bag!!:p

Don't worry, I'm sure we will be very well behaved and hand him back to you unharmed

regards

Mark

john.burn
11-18-2011, 06:31 AM
Should have some cheap (and close to the venue) accommodation details up by Sunday so keep an eye on the seminar page...

john.burn
12-06-2011, 07:39 AM
Apologies for not updating the site sooner, I've been trying to organise a discount from the hotels but they won't play ball unfortunately... I'll get the details online on the main website tonight but... Here are the closest 3 that should be available for under £35 per night - the last 2 are under £30 per night.

10 minute walk - http://www.premiere-classe-coventry.co.uk/
15 to 20 minute walk - http://www.premierinn.com/en/hotel/COVCRO/coventry-m6,jct2
5 to 10 minute drive - nice surroundings, good cheap food and in the countryside - http://www.premierinn.com/en/hotel/COVANS/coventry-east-ansty

JJF
12-06-2011, 08:20 AM
Maybe a B&B could be an option as well

For example: http://www.bedandbreakfastworld.com/coventry/england

Seems like they can beat the price - but I'm a bit lost when it comes to location...

john.burn
12-06-2011, 09:47 AM
Hi Jørgen,

The general area is called Potters Green or Walsgrave and I can't see any B&B's in the local vicinity sadly.

philipsmith
12-07-2011, 06:25 AM
There is also an ETAP at Birmingham airport (15-20 minutes drive) at around £30.00 per night

john.burn
12-14-2011, 01:07 PM
Well... So far we have people coming from England, Ireland, Scotland, France, Germany, Denmark and of course the US.

Can't wait :D

JJF
02-28-2012, 06:28 AM
Hi

It's a bit difficult to get everything to fit with travelplans.. We should be able to get a plane out of CPH to BHX on friday arriving in time for the evening practice, but it's quite difficult to get out of BHX on sunday any later than 18.45.

How much time should we expect to spend on getting to the airport on sunday? Taking traffic into account? Should we go by cab, and how much would this be?

I am sorry to say the expences are piling up here, so it might turn out to be too much for a two day camp even though I am very anxious to go. However we will do our best to get it together :)

Any suggestions on how to best arrange for transportation and bording please speak up :)

Hope to see you

Jørgen Jakob

john.burn
02-28-2012, 07:26 AM
Hi Jørgen,

I'd imagine we will be over and done with by about 16:00 on the Sunday - we'll plan to have shorter breaks on the Sunday and even if that's not possible then I'm sure that sensei won't mind if people need to leave an hour or so early - he'll understand.

By cab, from Coventry to BHX you're looking at under 25 minutes and a cost of around £30 I'd imagine.

JJF
02-29-2012, 09:08 AM
Hi John

Thank's for the info - that helps - I really hope to find a way to join you.

See you!

JJ

john.burn
04-04-2012, 11:29 AM
Hi all,

Just a quick update - we're getting fairly close to capacity now - seems to have been a surge in the last week of people booking - thanks! Ikeda sensei is very much looking forward to his first visit to the UK.

If anyone who's coming has any issues, problems or questions then please give me a call on 07966692857 or if you're outside of the UK then call me on +447966692857.

phitruong
04-04-2012, 03:01 PM
he likes good coffee (no instant stuffs). i'll see him a few weeks after. it would be good to hear his take on you heathens! :)

john.burn
04-05-2012, 03:36 AM
Hi Phi,

Don't worry, I know how much he likes good coffee... I remember his death before decaf t-shirt :).

George S. Ledyard
04-08-2012, 11:39 AM
Don't miss this seminar with Ikeda Sensei... he is off the charts!!!

May 5th - 6th I will be in Coventry at the Phoenix Aikido and Fitness Club. The seminar is full but if any of my local on-line friends wants to come by and say hi, I'd love to see folks. Even though the seminar is full, I believe observing is ok if anyone is interested...
- George

john.burn
04-12-2012, 07:23 AM
Hi all,

Quick update from Ikeda sensei... He's asked for people to not bring weapons to this one, he may well demonstrate with them but we won't be using them, sensei didn't want anyone traveling from abroad paying extra for their weapons baggage to the Airlines.

We're fairly close in terms of capacity so if I don't know you're coming yet might be an idea to drop me a line. If you know anyone interested who is turning up on the day then the rates are as follows if they do not book in advance -

Full Seminar - £90
Sat & Sunday - £75
Sat OR Sun - £50
Fri & EITHER Sat OR Sun - £60

If you know me and I've said a different price to you directly then don't worry :).

Any questions, please give me a shout on 07966692857 or +447966692857.

john.burn
04-23-2012, 11:19 AM
Well...

The seminar is over (for this year) and... wow. I don't know what else to say, I feel very sorry for the other 10,000 UK Aikido practitioners who stayed at home - we were full to capacity however so not really a problem for everyone who was there. Ikeda sensei really is crazy good - in fact, that doesn't come close to describing just how good he is.

Sensei taught 3 days of 4 hours plus with Saturday and Sunday being straight through classes with no break for lunch. Everyone had a blast and then some. I'll get some images into the gallery asap.

I hope UK Aikido just changed for the better and that the 120 or so people who came along (from at least 27 DIFFERENT aikido groups) keep what they learnt alive.

Thank you to sensei for coming, thank you to everyone else for coming along and supporting what will hopefully turn out to be the first of many trips.

philipsmith
04-23-2012, 03:00 PM
Thanks to John for organisimg the course. Just sorry I could only make the Friday night session. See you all next year!

Alex Megann
04-23-2012, 04:08 PM
I really enjoyed the classes on Friday and Saturday (I had to be somewhere else on Sunday, unfortunately), and was very glad to have seen Ikeda Sensei for the first time. He has a very nice, confident but modest, presence in the class, and I loved his sense of humour.

After following Kanetsuka Sensei for more than thirty years, I think the message that Ikeda Sensei was getting over was pretty much identical: take uke's strength away on first contact or earlier if possible, and don't fight with your partner. On my few chances for contact with Ikeda Sensei over the weekend I think the feeling is pretty similar to what I feel from Kanetsuka Sensei too - a sensation of real power, but not of where the power comes from.

The difference is that Ikeda does the same thing again and again, and tells you what he is doing. Yet, at the same time, I don't think that either teacher tells you what they are really doing, or how to get there. Ikeda says "find partner's tailbone", but not how to find partner's tailbone. Nor does he give any hints of how he has developed the connections in his body to be able to make that connection, which disappointed me (though I would guess that he gives this information out more readily in smaller classes).

I had a nice practice with many people on the mat in Coventry, and although there were one or two people I encountered who definitely weren't on the path (!!), I thought there was overall a very friendly and open feeling on the mat. I definitely feel I have some new input into my own practice, and lots of stuff I want to work on.

Alex

Mark Freeman
04-24-2012, 08:42 AM
A big thanks to John Burn for organising this event, a great venue and a very worthwhile event for all who attended.

I found Ikeda Sensei to be a very good humoured and generous teacher, who can demonstrate the higher levels of aikido, that many of us are striving for. I also found his teaching to be consistent with what I have learnt from my own teacher of 20 years and from time spent with Dan (all slightly different, all very powerfull)

One thing that he emphasised consistently, was the importance of the mind (he used the term brain) in all encounters. The body must be connected, but it needs the mind to lead it. I really enjoyed the focus on using intent, directed to different parts of uke to effect them in different ways. I'm going to have some good fun playing with this when I get back to my reguar students. Again this practice was consistent with what I have been used to, but has given me more scope and a greater awareness of dealing with the 'fighting-time'.

It was good to practice with so many people, from so many different backgrounds, however, like Alex mentioned above, some seemed to be on a different page from the one Ikeda was teaching from. I encountered some purely brute strength attempts to make the techniques work, that led me to wonder whether we were practicing the same art.

Anyway, I would thoroughly recommend anyone who gets the opportunity, to spend some time with Ikeda Sensei, a real gentleman and an excellent aikidoka.

regards,

Mark

phitruong
04-24-2012, 08:54 AM
I hope UK Aikido just changed for the better and that the 120 or so people who came along (from at least 27 DIFFERENT aikido groups) keep what they learnt alive.


120? sheesh! lots of folks. over here, with 30 people on the mat and i am already complaining not having any hand-on time with sensei. ;)

Alex Megann
04-24-2012, 09:35 AM
A big thanks to John Burn for organising this event, a great venue and a very worthwhile event for all who attended.

Anyway, I would thoroughly recommend anyone who gets the opportunity, to spend some time with Ikeda Sensei, a real gentleman and an excellent aikidoka.

regards,

Mark

Hi Mark, glad you enjoyed the weekend too, and I'm sorry we didn't get to meet!

Alex

mlaranjinha
04-25-2012, 04:56 PM
John
It was a great seminar and I am looking forward for 2013...

Patrick Hutchinson
04-25-2012, 07:28 PM
So did Ikeda sensei explain how he did what he does?
Did he elaborate on "move the inside"?
Were you able to reproduce what he did?
If not, why not?

Alex Megann
04-26-2012, 03:49 AM
So did Ikeda sensei explain how he did what he does?
Did he elaborate on "move the inside"?
Were you able to reproduce what he did?
If not, why not?

I woud say, personally, "no" to the first two questions, although some may have understood more of what he was saying than I did.

I don't know whether what I was doing was in any way similar to what Ikeda Sensei was doing, since I can't feel what my uke was feeling, nor what his uke felt, although with at least half of the partners I practised with I could get something of a similar effect. I know I was using too much muscle in most cases, though, and the success of my efforts was not nearly as consistent or reliable as what I was seeing with Ikeda Sensei.

As I mentioned in a previous post, I thought there were some big gaps in Ikeda Sensei's explanations of how he was doing what he did, and most people on the mat at the weekend wouldn't have been able to put the pieces together (even in the longer term) to reproduce his kokyu. All the same, I felt I touched the essence of what he was doing, and know what I need to work on (if not necessarily exactly how to do that!).

Alex

john.burn
04-26-2012, 05:18 AM
So did Ikeda sensei explain how he did what he does?
Did he elaborate on "move the inside"?
Were you able to reproduce what he did?
If not, why not?

Hi Patrick,

Well, I had a little more hands on time with Ikeda sensei since he was staying at my house with me. I think that he tells everyone exactly what to do, only we're not very good at listening to him! Make a line, shift, move inside, make tight etc. He says those things a lot, he says them for good reason, they're actually pretty accurate in terms of what we're supposed to be doing (on the physical level).

Maybe it's because I have met Mike Sigman too, I think he perfectly explains what Ikeda sensei is doing to the point that a lightbulb should be going off in your head once you've met both, in my opinion, they compliment each other perfectly. Certainly, after meeting Mike and playing with Jin on most lessons in the last 12 months then I think we all complicate things too much - I asked Ikeda sensei a few years back to explain to me what a line was, he kept saying it's just a line, it's just a line. You know what? It is just a line ;).

I can't do anything nearly as well as Ikeda sensei, but I am fairly sure I know what he's doing and yes, I can reproduce things on some level or other.

john.burn
04-26-2012, 05:19 AM
John
It was a great seminar and I am looking forward for 2013...

Keep April 2013 free... ;)

Mark Freeman
04-26-2012, 05:24 AM
So did Ikeda sensei explain how he did what he does?
Did he elaborate on "move the inside"?
Were you able to reproduce what he did?
If not, why not?

Hi Patrick,

In answer to the first question, I felt that he did explain how he was doing what he was doing. Whether people got what he was explaining was a different matter. He used many different exercises to illustrate essentially the same points. Unity of self first, directed intent, whole mind/body movement. All focus was on breaking uke's balance on contact.

On the question of "move the inside" he showed different ways of moving the body, and moving energy around the body, then how to diminish the external movement, whilst keeping the mental aspect of the movement going. This will have made more sense to some, than to others. I think if you have had no previous exposure to this concept, it may well have been a struggle.

Was I able to reproduce what he did? on the whole yes, (maybe not to the same degree), and as in all learning situations for me, I am focussed on trying to reproduce what has been shown and am acutely aware of my own tensions and any disconnections. I know once I get back into teaching mode, I will have more success.

As I have mentioned in my previous post. A great deal of focus was placed on the importance of 'mind' in this training. I got to practice with many people over the course of the seminar, a substantial portion of whom seemed to rely solely on the physical strength of the body. All I can think of is that, the mental aspect of aikido is not part of their regular practice, or if it is, they just don't go there.

I would note though, that Dan's explanations and exercises focussed on dantien movement, are more accessable and easier to get to grips with.

regards

Mark

Alex Megann
04-26-2012, 05:28 AM
Hi Patrick,

Well, I had a little more hands on time with Ikeda sensei since he was staying at my house with me. I think that he tells everyone exactly what to do, only we're not very good at listening to him! Make a line, shift, move inside, make tight etc. He says those things a lot, he says them for good reason, they're actually pretty accurate in terms of what we're supposed to be doing (on the physical level).

Maybe it's because I have met Mike Sigman too, I think he perfectly explains what Ikeda sensei is doing to the point that a lightbulb should be going off in your head once you've met both, in my opinion, they compliment each other perfectly. Certainly, after meeting Mike and playing with Jin on most lessons in the last 12 months then I think we all complicate things too much - I asked Ikeda sensei a few years back to explain to me what a line was, he kept saying it's just a line, it's just a line. You know what? It is just a line ;).

I can't do anything nearly as well as Ikeda sensei, but I am fairly sure I know what he's doing and yes, I can reproduce things on some level or other.

Hi John - thanks for your view on things.

I think the big question about this kind of practice is whether repeating it again and again will get you there. People like Dan and Mike talk all the time about the need for regular solo practice to develop these "lines" internally (and Kanetsuka Sensei among others keeps hinting at this too), but Ikeda Sensei didn't talk much about this aspect at all - not in the classes I was in, at least .

Alex

Dazzler
04-26-2012, 06:29 AM
As I have mentioned in my previous post. A great deal of focus was placed on the importance of 'mind' in this training. I got to practice with many people over the course of the seminar, a substantial portion of whom seemed to rely solely on the physical strength of the body. All I can think of is that, the mental aspect of aikido is not part of their regular practice, or if it is, they just don't go there.


I think you have a point Mark, just as a lot of those people who might look at some of the stuffs done and say all well and good....but would it save your ass?

I'd say a lot of people felt better than me at the connectivity stuff., to me anyway..but if it was 'for real' my money would be on my trusty right cross.

Not trying to get into an arguement...its been played out across countless threads on Aikiweb and other forums in the past but I see nothing to be gained in outing those with a different background....and much to be lost if they are offended by perceived criticism of what they and their teachers do. So if you feel your practice is more in line with this stuff than other good for you but lets not be too harsh on others with a background that is perhaps......more 'functional' in approach.

Lets just applaud those that come from a different background for venturing outside of normal parameters and daring to be different. Ikeda himself said it was difficult stuff , just take what you can and next time it will be a little easier.

Sounds good advice to me.

Thanks for the practice by the way.

Cheers

D

Dazzler
04-26-2012, 06:43 AM
Hi John - thanks for your view on things.

I think the big question about this kind of practice is whether repeating it again and again will get you there. People like Dan and Mike talk all the time about the need for regular solo practice to develop these "lines" internally (and Kanetsuka Sensei among others keeps hinting at this too), but Ikeda Sensei didn't talk much about this aspect at all - not in the classes I was in, at least .

Alex

Hi Alex

My training with Dan helped immensely.

Its also helped understand Kanetsuka Senseis demo at the Doshu course in 2010 and I am convinced he was showing the same stuff to an audience that on the whole might not have understood.

In Ikeda course with my limited appreciation I could still see things that directly matched Dans stuff and explanations.

There was also a lot of stuff that I couldn't really do very well...sometimes I just accepted this and didn't complete the work...I'm sure others will have got frustrated and resorted to muscling it...its understandable though I think....without Dans input I'd have been far far worse though.

Anyway - I'm not convinced just repeating the stuff will get you there....but training with someone that explains what you do, gives you exercises to train your body to do it and then demonstates how you use the stuff. ......This is the way forward for me !

Great to see you again.

D

Mark Freeman
04-26-2012, 07:46 AM
I think you have a point Mark, just as a lot of those people who might look at some of the stuffs done and say all well and good....but would it save your ass?

I'd say a lot of people felt better than me at the connectivity stuff., to me anyway..but if it was 'for real' my money would be on my trusty right cross.

Not trying to get into an arguement...its been played out across countless threads on Aikiweb and other forums in the past but I see nothing to be gained in outing those with a different background....and much to be lost if they are offended by perceived criticism of what they and their teachers do. So if you feel your practice is more in line with this stuff than other good for you but lets not be too harsh on others with a background that is perhaps......more 'functional' in approach.

Lets just applaud those that come from a different background for venturing outside of normal parameters and daring to be different. Ikeda himself said it was difficult stuff , just take what you can and next time it will be a little easier.

Sounds good advice to me.

Thanks for the practice by the way.

Cheers

D

Hi Darren,

I applaude all of those venturing outside of their normal parameters (as you know I include myself in this).

I was not intending my comments to be taken as criticism, they were rather, 'observations' in response to Patricks questions. I feel lucky to have had the 'mental' aspect inherent in my practice. However, I am having to learn the 'harder' more pressure side, so from that perspective, I am a relative beginner.

I hope no one takes offence, as none was intended. We are all students of this stuff, and mastery is something that only comes with a great deal of practice.

I thought the whole weekend was really good. I'm sure all who were there will take away a great deal to work on.

Thanks for the practice too, I look forward to the next one,

cheers,

Mark

Dazzler
04-26-2012, 07:53 AM
Hi Darren,

I applaude all of those venturing outside of their normal parameters (as you know I include myself in this).

I was not intending my comments to be taken as criticism, they were rather, 'observations' in response to Patricks questions. I feel lucky to have had the 'mental' aspect inherent in my practice. However, I am having to learn the 'harder' more pressure side, so from that perspective, I am a relative beginner.

I hope no one takes offence, as none was intended. We are all students of this stuff, and mastery is something that only comes with a great deal of practice.

I thought the whole weekend was really good. I'm sure all who were there will take away a great deal to work on.

Thanks for the practice too, I look forward to the next one,

cheers,

Mark

Cheers Mark

I'm quite defensive of the muscling fraternity, due to my close similarity to Arnie Schwartzenneger...so thanks for clearing that up.

D
(on behalf of adonises & greek gods everywhere)

Mark Freeman
04-26-2012, 08:56 AM
Cheers Mark

I'm quite defensive of the muscling fraternity, due to my close similarity to Arnie Schwartzenneger...so thanks for clearing that up.

D
(on behalf of adonises & greek gods everywhere)

Daren, you will now be known as the Brizzle Terminator :cool:

best,

Mark

Dazzler
04-26-2012, 09:22 AM
Daren, you will now be known as the Brizzle Terminator :cool:

best,

Mark

I've been called a lot worse things :D

john.burn
04-26-2012, 11:03 AM
Hi John - thanks for your view on things.

I think the big question about this kind of practice is whether repeating it again and again will get you there. People like Dan and Mike talk all the time about the need for regular solo practice to develop these "lines" internally (and Kanetsuka Sensei among others keeps hinting at this too), but Ikeda Sensei didn't talk much about this aspect at all - not in the classes I was in, at least .

Alex

Hi Alex,

I think he demonstrated quite a few exercises over the weekend, the ball things he does (looks like he's body popping), the shifting, the moving inside / wave kind of exercise... All of those can be done solo like he said and with a wall or a solid partner to get the hang of them.

One of the things I like about Ikeda sensei is if you don't get something, ask him, he'll usually give you some ideas to work on :).

Have to say I felt a large range of people from all sorts of backgrounds and a lot of people were convinced this is what they do anyway... It's the same thing... ahhhh, we do this... I didn't get to feel so many people with a good, well connected body if I'm being honest (from an uke's point of view). Most people were moving from forearm and shoulder, I felt little coming from people's centers... But then, isn't that the point of all this? We can go back and try.

George S. Ledyard
04-26-2012, 11:25 AM
Hi John - thanks for your view on things.

I think the big question about this kind of practice is whether repeating it again and again will get you there. People like Dan and Mike talk all the time about the need for regular solo practice to develop these "lines" internally (and Kanetsuka Sensei among others keeps hinting at this too), but Ikeda Sensei didn't talk much about this aspect at all - not in the classes I was in, at least .

Alex

If you look at how Dan, Bill Gleason, Howard Popkin Ikeda Sensei etc teach, it seems to me the focus is on getting you to feel it first, then follow that up with a consistent solo practice that "burns in" the body habits. For myself anyway, it was the paired connection exercises in which every change I made with my mind / body instantly reflected back to me what I was or was not doing that really made me understand what I was trying to do. Now that I know more about what it's supposed to feel like and what it even means to have different parts of the tissue structure really connect, I can do solo work and have it make sense to me. I really think that this is what Ikeda Sensei's trying to do, get you to feel it in the first place.

As for the folks that think they're doing this already... well, it's up to the uke to give the proper feedback that shows where this is true or not. Ikeda Sensei's ukes are not "tanking" for him. The Uke role in this type of learning is very important. The uke needs to give good connection. If you run into their structure, they shouldn't move, if they get it right you don't "mess with them" you let them feel the result of what they are doing. As they get better, you can provide them with a connection that has more structure so they have to get better. But it isn't your intention to screw them up and it isn't worth anything if you are "tanking". That's why its best to get time with the folks who are well ahead of you in this process. They can tell what you are doing, give you just enough juice that you have to put another piece together but not so much that you are just getting shut down (unless you are really screwing up). The ukes job is to facilitate your learning. When two partners train together and both are clueless, the process gets pretty screwed up.

mlaranjinha
04-26-2012, 02:05 PM
Hi All
I believe that Ikeda Sensei's explanations are quite straightforward and, in some way, simple. This is why he is such a great teacher and manages to stimulate big audiences in seminars all over the world.
That said, I am not stating here that I manage to do all he explains but again I think this is due to my lack of (daily) practice in these terms.
Sensei tells us a lot of times that the Dojo is like a laboratory, we should experiment. Well, most of the times in our Dojo we hardly have time to do that because most of times the focus is driven differently... and this is not Ikeda Sensei's fault.
I remember the first week long seminar with Ikeda Sensei teaching and thinking to myself (in frustration): "are we not going to do anything else other than katate dori...". After some years of practice I learned to appreciate more and more Sensei's teachings and this is mainly due to the fact that my teacher was in tune to this kind of practice.
Regards

Alex Megann
04-26-2012, 04:16 PM
If you look at how Dan, Bill Gleason, Howard Popkin Ikeda Sensei etc teach, it seems to me the focus is on getting you to feel it first, then follow that up with a consistent solo practice that "burns in" the body habits. For myself anyway, it was the paired connection exercises in which every change I made with my mind / body instantly reflected back to me what I was or was not doing that really made me understand what I was trying to do. Now that I know more about what it's supposed to feel like and what it even means to have different parts of the tissue structure really connect, I can do solo work and have it make sense to me. I really think that this is what Ikeda Sensei's trying to do, get you to feel it in the first place.

As for the folks that think they're doing this already... well, it's up to the uke to give the proper feedback that shows where this is true or not. Ikeda Sensei's ukes are not "tanking" for him. The Uke role in this type of learning is very important. The uke needs to give good connection. If you run into their structure, they shouldn't move, if they get it right you don't "mess with them" you let them feel the result of what they are doing. As they get better, you can provide them with a connection that has more structure so they have to get better. But it isn't your intention to screw them up and it isn't worth anything if you are "tanking". That's why its best to get time with the folks who are well ahead of you in this process. They can tell what you are doing, give you just enough juice that you have to put another piece together but not so much that you are just getting shut down (unless you are really screwing up). The ukes job is to facilitate your learning. When two partners train together and both are clueless, the process gets pretty screwed up.

Hi George,

That makes a lot of sense. Ikeda Sensei's teaching really does come across like a "system", which is quite unusual in my experience. Unfortunately "folks who are well ahead of you in this process" are in short supply over here!

It is obvious that Ikeda Sensei's ukes aren't "tanking" for him - he drummed this into us for long enough, and my one session of taking ukemi for me confirmed this.

Alex

Alex Megann
04-26-2012, 04:22 PM
Hi All
I believe that Ikeda Sensei's explanations are quite straightforward and, in some way, simple. This is why he is such a great teacher and manages to stimulate big audiences in seminars all over the world.
That said, I am not stating here that I manage to do all he explains but again I think this is due to my lack of (daily) practice in these terms.
Sensei tells us a lot of times that the Dojo is like a laboratory, we should experiment. Well, most of the times in our Dojo we hardly have time to do that because most of times the focus is driven differently... and this is not Ikeda Sensei's fault.
I remember the first week long seminar with Ikeda Sensei teaching and thinking to myself (in frustration): "are we not going to do anything else other than katate dori...". After some years of practice I learned to appreciate more and more Sensei's teachings and this is mainly due to the fact that my teacher was in tune to this kind of practice.
Regards

Hi Manuel,

It was nice to meet you and practise with you in Coventry!

I agree that it is very hard to focus on working on what our teachers tell us when we have to teach a "normal" class. These things demand so much patience...

Alex

mlaranjinha
04-27-2012, 01:37 AM
Hi Manuel,

It was nice to meet you and practise with you in Coventry!

I agree that it is very hard to focus on working on what our teachers tell us when we have to teach a "normal" class. These things demand so much patience...

Alex

Hei Alex,
Likewise... nice to meet you and practice with you.
And, you're right, these things take time, patience and persistence... good luck! ;)
Regards

phitruong
04-27-2012, 09:31 AM
Have to say I felt a large range of people from all sorts of backgrounds and a lot of people were convinced this is what they do anyway... It's the same thing... ahhhh, we do this... I didn't get to feel so many people with a good, well connected body if I'm being honest (from an uke's point of view). Most people were moving from forearm and shoulder, I felt little coming from people's centers... But then, isn't that the point of all this? We can go back and try.

i believed i talked about this in one of the thread. when you have not the body that worked with this stuffs, you will be blind and deaf going in. you can feel your balance broke by Ikeda sensei, but you wouldn't be able feel what he did to you or be able to reverse engineering it. Ikeda sensei said, which i am paraphrased, "dan ranked no guaranteed you understand this!"

i believed i wrote a bunch of stuffs on translating what Ikeda sensei said somewhere.

john.burn
04-30-2012, 05:46 AM
i believed i talked about this in one of the thread. when you have not the body that worked with this stuffs, you will be blind and deaf going in. you can feel your balance broke by Ikeda sensei, but you wouldn't be able feel what he did to you or be able to reverse engineering it. Ikeda sensei said, which i am paraphrased, "dan ranked no guaranteed you understand this!"

i believed i wrote a bunch of stuffs on translating what Ikeda sensei said somewhere.

Yeah I remember reading it - not sure if it was on here or QiJin though. Either way, yes, it's not so easy to pick up unless you've been with him a long time and working on it with him or obviously if you've met up with Mike or some of the others who can explain a few things.

He also mentioned that grade doesn't matter and that sometimes it's worse with more experience because you have to learn a new method of moving.

john.burn
05-03-2012, 07:17 AM
Had a quick look at the footage last night from the seminar... Looks great! Still a way off yet as it's still being time-lined (we had 3 cameras). Ikeda sensei said we should make 2 DVD's one of Saturday and one of Sunday... I'll update as and when we get a little nearer - might put a small clip out on youtube as a promo nearer the time.

mlaranjinha
05-03-2012, 08:26 AM
Looking forward to that John!
That is actually a good effort from your side...

john.burn
05-03-2012, 08:33 AM
Hi Manuel,

Well, for next year we have better filming planned. Sensei suggested we use a handy-cam type setup as well as the other cameras, I think he likes gadgets almost as much as me :D.

Can't wait...

Alex Megann
05-03-2012, 11:27 AM
Hi John,

As I said in Coventry, I would definitely like to have a copy of the DVD(s) of the weekend.

I'm sure you will keep us informed of developments via AikiWeb...

Alex

Alex Megann
05-03-2012, 11:31 AM
i believed i talked about this in one of the thread. when you have not the body that worked with this stuffs, you will be blind and deaf going in. you can feel your balance broke by Ikeda sensei, but you wouldn't be able feel what he did to you or be able to reverse engineering it. Ikeda sensei said, which i am paraphrased, "dan ranked no guaranteed you understand this!"

i believed i wrote a bunch of stuffs on translating what Ikeda sensei said somewhere.

Hi Phi,

I'd be interested to see what you said!

What is fascinating is that my wife, who is a Scaravelli yoga teacher, can do this stuff, while I have practised with quite a few Aikikai sixth dans who aren't even close...

Alex

john.burn
05-03-2012, 11:47 AM
Hi Phi,

I'd be interested to see what you said!

What is fascinating is that my wife, who is a Scaravelli yoga teacher, can do this stuff, while I have practised with quite a few Aikikai sixth dans who aren't even close...

Alex

Hi Alex,

Better yet... Drop me an email and come and meet Mike Sigman when he's next in the UK, I guarantee you'll get what Ikeda sensei is doing after a weekend with him. Well... if you become obsessed with it anyways.

phitruong
05-03-2012, 12:51 PM
Had a quick look at the footage last night from the seminar... Looks great! Still a way off yet as it's still being time-lined (we had 3 cameras). Ikeda sensei said we should make 2 DVD's one of Saturday and one of Sunday... I'll update as and when we get a little nearer - might put a small clip out on youtube as a promo nearer the time.

i can review the DVDs for you and make rude comments. :)

phitruong
05-03-2012, 12:55 PM
Better yet... Drop me an email and come and meet Mike Sigman when he's next in the UK, I guarantee you'll get what Ikeda sensei is doing after a weekend with him. Well... if you become obsessed with it anyways.

second. although the stuffs mike shown will need you to do quite a bit of works and thinking too. had not a chance to attend one of dan seminar, but others recommended, so i would check him out too.

phitruong
05-03-2012, 12:58 PM
Hi Phi,

I'd be interested to see what you said!

What is fascinating is that my wife, who is a Scaravelli yoga teacher, can do this stuff, while I have practised with quite a few Aikikai sixth dans who aren't even close...

Alex

alex, try this thread http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19472 and the thread mentioned in the first post.

john.burn
05-03-2012, 04:55 PM
second. although the stuffs mike shown will need you to do quite a bit of works and thinking too. had not a chance to attend one of dan seminar, but others recommended, so i would check him out too.

Hi Phi,

Yup, you do have to think about this stuff but I have to say I found Mike's stuff way more accessible than Dan's stuff. It just made so much more sense to me. I heard about both guys, I met both guys, I found Mike's teaching methods worked for me big time, it just made more sense. YMMV as in all things.

Alex Megann
05-04-2012, 09:16 AM
alex, try this thread http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19472 and the thread mentioned in the first post.

Thanks, Phi - I will read those threads.

Alex

Matusiam
05-08-2012, 10:41 PM
I have to admit that the course was totally mind blowing !!! I've met Ikeda Sensei about 4 years ago in France. Having that experience in mind I could compare the feeling when you get hold of him . The only conclusion I have is that he has improved ALOT and that his explanations are way better ! For anyone who is bored with pure aikido techniques should come along and see Ikeda Sensei. I can guarantee you that he will demonstrate to you that aikido can be put into a totally different level. You grab him, you resits, you sit down against your will. You think he got lucky that time, so you try again and the same happens. Its great :)

Matusiam
05-09-2012, 10:39 AM
dropping my 2cents in. i do agree with John about the teaching methods for the internal stuff. i have not me tMr Dan or Mr Mike , but from what ive been told and what i have tried i also found that Mr Mike explanations make sense and are very easy to get into your head. its not superb easy to make your body do it but the concepts and training methods (on what you exacly need to do) are crystal clear. hope it helps

john.burn
10-24-2012, 08:20 AM
Just an early heads up... Ikeda sensei is back in the UK April 5th to 7th, 2013.

More details (and a new thread) once I've confirmed everything...