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Chris Evans
10-14-2011, 09:18 AM
I'm certain that full contact karate (striking: kung fu, boxing, Chinese boxing, Muay Thai, Taekwondo, etc.) and jiu jitsu (submission: wrestling, judo, BJJ, etc.) cross training are essential, to enjoy "fighting" in MMA, esp. for competition, but would Aikido be useful in preparing to play (or "fight," in sports vernacular) the MMA games?

Are there any who practice Aikido and trains or competes in MMA also?

My mind's attached to the notion that when Aikido people get exposed to BJJ or MMA practice then they drop Aikido. Kindly debunk my delusion on this?

(P.S. I have faith in Aikido for self-protection (aka: in real fighting: prevention and survival), although I have my doubts on dojo that cater to overly compliant training, even for 'advanced" students, but this insincerely affects many other "traditional" martial arts, since healthful-exercises-only-mindset, however valid, is a common focus and dilemma in balancing with sincere training).

Dave de Vos
10-14-2011, 09:31 AM
Henry Ellis mentioned his son Rik Ellis a couple of times.

Chris Evans
10-14-2011, 09:44 AM
also, I am restarting my search for a physically rigorous Aikido dojo, that's open more than 2x week, to complement my "contact" karate dojo and zazen zendo practices in the Berkeley, 94703, area...

ChrisHein
10-14-2011, 11:53 AM
I've trained and competed in MMA. Training in MMA actually made me go back to Aikido, once I really understood what I wanted and what the two different martial arts taught.

While it's hard to say that Aikido training might not provide any insights or helpful training tools for an MMA fight, it doesn't provide much. If You want to fight in MMA, train in MMA. Sport martial arts, when it comes to the competition aspect are very particular animals. Each training method catering to a particular skill set. For example, if you want to be a competitive boxer, you should train in boxing, not MMA. MMA training teaches striking methods, but those methods are not designed for competitive boxing. While many MMA fighters still train in boxing, someone who only trains in boxing is going to seriously limit himself in an MMA fight. You train for the type of event you expect to be fighting in. Judo training is best for Judo, MMA for MMA, Boxing for Boxing etc. Saying this, you must understand that Boxing and MMA are much much more closely related than MMA and Aikido.

Aikido has little to nothing in common with type of fighting done in MMA. This is not to say that one is better than the other, it's simply to say that they are VERY different. MMA is concerned with one-on-on fighting, done in a controlled atmosphere, with a referee, unarmed, playing by a ruleset. Aikido is concerned with conflict resolution, against multiple attackers, likely armed, in less than ideal settings, at unexpected times. Different.

Janet Rosen
10-14-2011, 12:13 PM
Aikido has little to nothing in common with type of fighting done in MMA. This is not to say that one is better than the other, it's simply to say that they are VERY different. MMA is concerned with one-on-on fighting, done in a controlled atmosphere, with a referee, unarmed, playing by a ruleset. Aikido is concerned with conflict resolution, against multiple attackers, likely armed, in less than ideal settings, at unexpected times. Different.

Very nicely articulated, Chris.

Chris Evans
10-14-2011, 03:11 PM
I've trained and competed in MMA. Training in MMA actually made me go back to Aikido, once I really understood what I wanted and what the two different martial arts taught.

While it's hard to say that Aikido training might not provide any insights or helpful training tools for an MMA fight, it doesn't provide much. If You want to fight in MMA, train in MMA. Sport martial arts, when it comes to the competition aspect are very particular animals. Each training method catering to a particular skill set. For example, if you want to be a competitive boxer, you should train in boxing, not MMA. MMA training teaches striking methods, but those methods are not designed for competitive boxing. While many MMA fighters still train in boxing, someone who only trains in boxing is going to seriously limit himself in an MMA fight. You train for the type of event you expect to be fighting in. Judo training is best for Judo, MMA for MMA, Boxing for Boxing etc. Saying this, you must understand that Boxing and MMA are much much more closely related than MMA and Aikido.

Aikido has little to nothing in common with type of fighting done in MMA. This is not to say that one is better than the other, it's simply to say that they are VERY different. MMA is concerned with one-on-on fighting, done in a controlled atmosphere, with a referee, unarmed, playing by a ruleset. Aikido is concerned with conflict resolution, against multiple attackers, likely armed, in less than ideal settings, at unexpected times. Different.

I'm not interested in competing in MMA (not yet), but I enjoy the training and sparring with people preparing for MMA bouts: Seems like a decent test of karate and motivates me to keep up on fitness.

Martial arts ("... conflict resolution, against multiple attackers, likely armed, in less than ideal settings, at unexpected times..".) skillfulness is paramount, before any martial sports.

Gorgeous George
10-14-2011, 05:19 PM
Aikido for three years; BJJ for six weeks.
I also do an MMA class every week.

I easily handle all other beginners, including a few very big, very strong guys, in BJJ; in my first ever class I sparred with a white belt who's trained for three or four years, and submitted him with a kimura.

I rolled with a very experienced, talented, and respected blue belt on Wednesday; he told me my top-game is on a par with someone who's been training for six months.

So does ability in aikido transfer to other martial arts/martial arts in general?
The answer is very obviously: yes.

sakumeikan
10-15-2011, 09:00 AM
Henry Ellis mentioned his son Rik Ellis a couple of times.
Dear Dave,
Rik is a powerful guy.Check him out on you tube.He certainly finishes the fights fast cheers,joe.

Rob Watson
10-15-2011, 11:34 AM
also, I am restarting my search for a physically rigorous Aikido dojo, that's open more than 2x week, to complement my "contact" karate dojo and zazen zendo practices in the Berkeley, 94703, area...

Berkeley Aikikai on San Pablo Ave a couple of blocks north of University Ave. Shibata Ichiro 7 dan offers many classes per week. Ask for a private lesson and let us know how it goes.

ChrisHein
10-15-2011, 12:00 PM
Aikido for three years; BJJ for six weeks.
I also do an MMA class every week.

I easily handle all other beginners, including a few very big, very strong guys, in BJJ; in my first ever class I sparred with a white belt who's trained for three or four years, and submitted him with a kimura.

I rolled with a very experienced, talented, and respected blue belt on Wednesday; he told me my top-game is on a par with someone who's been training for six months.

So does ability in aikido transfer to other martial arts/martial arts in general?
The answer is very obviously: yes.

Ah, it's hard to say. How much is your natural ability, and how much is the Aikido? When I started BJJ, I had five years of Aikido, and I got tapped out by everyone in class that day. I did make progress very fast, and by my second year was able to give most of the purple and brown belts a run for their money. Lot's of my class mates said that this must be because of my Aikido training, but again, how much is my past Aikido training and how much is my natural ability and dedication to training?

When I did Kendo, Aikido put me a bit behind in a few things. I had to drop a few habits that Aikido weapons work had engrained into me. So that was a problem that came from previous Aikido training. It's really hard to tell.

One thing that is clear, Aikido doesn't teach the kind of techniques and strategies taught in MMA.

Kevin Leavitt
10-15-2011, 04:29 PM
Great Post Chris Hein! My comments are as your's as well as my experiences with BJJ after training in Aikido.

Gorgeous George
10-15-2011, 09:00 PM
Ah, it's hard to say. How much is your natural ability, and how much is the Aikido? When I started BJJ, I had five years of Aikido, and I got tapped out by everyone in class that day. I did make progress very fast, and by my second year was able to give most of the purple and brown belts a run for their money. Lot's of my class mates said that this must be because of my Aikido training, but again, how much is my past Aikido training and how much is my natural ability and dedication to training?

When I did Kendo, Aikido put me a bit behind in a few things. I had to drop a few habits that Aikido weapons work had engrained into me. So that was a problem that came from previous Aikido training. It's really hard to tell.

One thing that is clear, Aikido doesn't teach the kind of techniques and strategies taught in MMA.

Good to hear from you Chris. :)

I honestly think it's all due to my aikido background: it took me ages, in aikido, to overcome what was natural - tension; strength; aversion to manipulating someone's body/joints; unfamiliarity with physical contact with random people - and if i'd gone straight into BJJ, i'd have had to overcome those same barriers, and it would have taken me a long time to do that.

Hell, I am still having to overcome the aversion to sitting on someone's chest, or getting a knee-ride, ha; plus, I am quick to apologise if I even think i've caught someone - even a little - with a finger in the face, or anything like that (a courtesy I do not wish to ever overcome) - as opposed to some right lunatics, who go full-whack in sparring, as though it's life or death.
This guy gave me a carpet/mat-burn on my knee the other day, because I was averse to getting into a struggle with him - and he ended up headbutting me; crazy.

Then there's the massive new guy, very toned, and muscular, who started the week after me, who tries to use the strength/muscles of an arm to push my bodyweight off him...i'd probably do things like that, still, if not for aikido - I actually stared BJJ so I could practice aikido, outside of the one class a week I can get to.

To be honest, I love how straight-forward, and effective, BJJ is: I can see what works, and why, and I can then do it myself - and when I do it against a resisting partner, I feel very pleased, and in no doubt that i've just used technique on someone; such a relief from aikido: the minute, hard to comprehend detail; the frequent corrections/being told i'm not doing it right...but it's actually helping my aikido a lot, because I effect BJJ techniques through use of the hips, and alignment between my hips and arm/legs.
Exciting times.

Regards aikido/MMA strategies.
I was in the MMA class the other day, and the teacher explained the intention behind boxing: 'you don't want to be at your opponent's twelve o'clock', is how he put it - i.e., you're always trying to get from in front of him, and off-line...just like aikido, I thought.
He also taught a left jab, right cross, left hook, right roundhouse kick combination - and the left hook set me up off-line, and with my right hip back, to then deliver a kick; the exact same kind of hip movements i've found time and again in aikido, where the back hip is naturally and powerfully rotated forward to execute a technique.

FWIW

MM
10-15-2011, 09:57 PM
Regards aikido/MMA strategies.
I was in the MMA class the other day, and the teacher explained the intention behind boxing: 'you don't want to be at your opponent's twelve o'clock', is how he put it - i.e., you're always trying to get from in front of him, and off-line...just like aikido, I thought.
He also taught a left jab, right cross, left hook, right roundhouse kick combination - and the left hook set me up off-line, and with my right hip back, to then deliver a kick; the exact same kind of hip movements i've found time and again in aikido, where the back hip is naturally and powerfully rotated forward to execute a technique.

FWIW

Not specific to you, but the overall point that you brought up.

When boxers encountered Ueshiba, they found something very different than what they'd experienced. These people trained to move, hit, jab, generate power, etc. But Ueshiba was not the same.

When Kisshomaru was studying sword, Ueshiba would later say, with aiki it would be like this. Not kata, not technique, but aiki.

When highly ranked kendo people studied with Ueshiba, they wanted to know how he used his body so differently than everyone else. These kendo people had been around for quite a while and had trained with a lot of people and knew how kendo people moved.

When Tenryu, who was highly respected in sumo, met Ueshiba, he found something completely different. Sumo people trained very hard, yet, Tenryu knew that Ueshiba was unlike anyone he had ever experienced.

These are just basic overviews. But, put them together. Boxers, wrestlers, and swordsmen who tested Ueshiba came away wondering what in the world Ueshiba was doing and really wanted to know how he was doing it. Ueshiba did not move, act, respond, or feel like anyone they'd trained with.

Now, if we take modern aikido training and find that hip generated power is very similar to boxing/MMA hip generated power, then shouldn't we be wondering why? If what Ueshiba was doing was vastly different, why is it that hip generated power in Modern Aikido is similar to boxing/MMA? Brings up the question, is Modern Aikido doing the same thing as Morihei Ueshiba ...

Gorgeous George
10-15-2011, 10:43 PM
Not specific to you, but the overall point that you brought up.

When boxers encountered Ueshiba, they found something very different than what they'd experienced. These people trained to move, hit, jab, generate power, etc. But Ueshiba was not the same.

When Kisshomaru was studying sword, Ueshiba would later say, with aiki it would be like this. Not kata, not technique, but aiki.

When highly ranked kendo people studied with Ueshiba, they wanted to know how he used his body so differently than everyone else. These kendo people had been around for quite a while and had trained with a lot of people and knew how kendo people moved.

When Tenryu, who was highly respected in sumo, met Ueshiba, he found something completely different. Sumo people trained very hard, yet, Tenryu knew that Ueshiba was unlike anyone he had ever experienced.

These are just basic overviews. But, put them together. Boxers, wrestlers, and swordsmen who tested Ueshiba came away wondering what in the world Ueshiba was doing and really wanted to know how he was doing it. Ueshiba did not move, act, respond, or feel like anyone they'd trained with.

Now, if we take modern aikido training and find that hip generated power is very similar to boxing/MMA hip generated power, then shouldn't we be wondering why? If what Ueshiba was doing was vastly different, why is it that hip generated power in Modern Aikido is similar to boxing/MMA? Brings up the question, is Modern Aikido doing the same thing as Morihei Ueshiba ...

I absolutely agree that aikido is something different - something internal/subtle; that's why I said that the external techniques in BJJ are a relief - they are manifest.

They are, however, helping me to understand, and work on, things I believe are an essential part of aikido - such as opening your hips, relaxing your body, and body alignment, as stressed in Yoshinkan/pre-war aikido...these are all things i've struggled with in aikido training, and my forays into other martial arts have helped me to understand why judoka etc took up aikido, and how it could have helped them to understand/take to it.

FWIW: I (try to) learn aikido as exemplified by Yamaguchi sensei, and his students Endo, and Yamashima senseis, as I believe what they teach is something truly beyond 'the norm', and close to what O'sensei possessed.

sakumeikan
10-16-2011, 03:53 AM
Berkeley Aikikai on San Pablo Ave a couple of blocks north of University Ave. Shibata Ichiro 7 dan offers many classes per week. Ask for a private lesson and let us know how it goes.
Dear Robert,
Having known Shibata Sensei for many a year I can state that anybody looking for non compliant , serious Aikido training would be accommodated by Shibata Sensei.Relly nice man and a powerful aikidoka. Cheers, Joe.

sakumeikan
10-16-2011, 04:04 AM
Not specific to you, but the overall point that you brought up.

When boxers encountered Ueshiba, they found something very different than what they'd experienced. These people trained to move, hit, jab, generate power, etc. But Ueshiba was not the same.

When Kisshomaru was studying sword, Ueshiba would later say, with aiki it would be like this. Not kata, not technique, but aiki.

When highly ranked kendo people studied with Ueshiba, they wanted to know how he used his body so differently than everyone else. These kendo people had been around for quite a while and had trained with a lot of people and knew how kendo people moved.

When Tenryu, who was highly respected in sumo, met Ueshiba, he found something completely different. Sumo people trained very hard, yet, Tenryu knew that Ueshiba was unlike anyone he had ever experienced.

These are just basic overviews. But, put them together. Boxers, wrestlers, and swordsmen who tested Ueshiba came away wondering what in the world Ueshiba was doing and really wanted to know how he was doing it. Ueshiba did not move, act, respond, or feel like anyone they'd trained with.

Now, if we take modern aikido training and find that hip generated power is very similar to boxing/MMA hip generated power, then shouldn't we be wondering why? If what Ueshiba was doing was vastly different, why is it that hip generated power in Modern Aikido is similar to boxing/MMA? Brings up the question, is Modern Aikido doing the same thing as Morihei Ueshiba ...
Dear Mark,
In general I would say no to the idea that modern aikido is the same as O Senseis aikido.Perhaps a few people are trying to preserve Aikido but in general the art I feel is being diluted.When Osensei was alive you needed character references etc in order to enter his school.Nowadays Aikido is open to all
[not saying thats bad ] but how many people are really serious about mastering the art?The life of an uchideshi of O Sensei was harsh. Not many people nowadays could /would be willing to under severe training on a full time basis.Cheers, Joe.

Rob Watson
10-16-2011, 01:20 PM
Dear Robert,
Having known Shibata Sensei for many a year I can state that anybody looking for non compliant , serious Aikido training would be accommodated by Shibata Sensei.Relly nice man and a powerful aikidoka. Cheers, Joe.

I believe there as also zazen and iaido classes offered in addition to the many aikido classes. Also a rarity, lunch hour training. I don't train there anymore but 'rigorous' would be an understatement.

To follow up with the OP's query... I've known many aikidoka who went to BJJ or originally came from TKD and many other arts. They do tend to keep coming back to aikido - some take longer than others.

Dave de Vos
10-16-2011, 02:13 PM
Dear Dave,
Rik is a powerful guy.Check him out on you tube.He certainly finishes the fights fast cheers,joe.

Dear Joe,

I checked out a few of his clips. I don't know much about MMA, but Rik sure looks like a capable fighter to me, so I thought he might fit what Chris Evans was looking for.

Cheers,
Dave

Chris Evans
10-18-2011, 12:26 PM
thank you for the information that lead me to this interesting site:

http://rik-ellis.blogspot.com/2010/03/great-new-information-sites.html
"...AIKIDO IN MMA
By Rik Ellis

I am a MMA / Aikido Cage Fighter..."

I'm interested in a local (Berkeley/Oakland) Aikido dojo that can integrate karate-do practices: Be able to work with kicks and punches (& their defenses) in an Aikido dojo. I think I can keep up with karate and attend an Aikido dojo about 3+ times per week.

They're plenty of karate-ka that pursue "delusional" karate for comfort and for health only (which is fine), but, if you're lucky, you can find enough advanced students that want to learn complete, a more truthful and practical, karate in some dojo: I assume Aikido to be the same, human nature being reliable, that they're Aikido dojo with some Aikido-ka that will work with "sharing" pain and managing fear, from "pressure" testing.

:)

Demetrio Cereijo
10-18-2011, 01:08 PM
Chris,

Don't know if it is too far but in Suginami Aikikai (http://sfaikido.com/index.html) in San Francisco it seems they offer Aikido, BJJ and Muay Thai classes. Maybe you could find the place appropiate for your interests.

Chris Evans
10-18-2011, 01:53 PM
Chris,

Don't know if it is too far but in Suginami Aikikai (http://sfaikido.com/index.html) in San Francisco it seems they offer Aikido, BJJ and Muay Thai classes. Maybe you could find the place appropiate for your interests.

Really: Aikido, BJJ, and Muay Thai! Cool... I'll look into that dojo, since I work in 'Frisco. Thanks.

sakumeikan
10-19-2011, 06:57 AM
thank you for the information that lead me to this interesting site:

http://rik-ellis.blogspot.com/2010/03/great-new-information-sites.html
"...AIKIDO IN MMA
By Rik Ellis

I am a MMA / Aikido Cage Fighter..."

I'm interested in a local (Berkeley/Oakland) Aikido dojo that can integrate karate-do practices: Be able to work with kicks and punches (& their defenses) in an Aikido dojo. I think I can keep up with karate and attend an Aikido dojo about 3+ times per week.

They're plenty of karate-ka that pursue "delusional" karate for comfort and for health only (which is fine), but, if you're lucky, you can find enough advanced students that want to learn complete, a more truthful and practical, karate in some dojo: I assume Aikido to be the same, human nature being reliable, that they're Aikido dojo with some Aikido-ka that will work with "sharing" pain and managing fear, from "pressure" testing.

:)
Dear Chris,
Read Rik's article.He is a chip from an old block inasmuch as he sounds like his dad .I know Mr Ellis , he is a good fiend of mine.He often states that there are Plastic Samurai going around nowadays.All I can say is this , if you have trained for years with Sensei like Tamura, Chiba Sensei, Saito Sensei etc I think its safe to say you are not a shrinking violet when confronted by potential aggressive people.Of course no one sensible tries to get involved in a skirmish, however if you do happen to be involved in one, no point in doing orthodox?aikido waza.Just keep it simple.A well delivered hit or a short kick to a kneecap usually works a treat.Cheers, Joe.

sakumeikan
10-19-2011, 07:02 AM
Dear Chris,
Read Rik's article.He is a chip from an old block inasmuch as he sounds like his dad .I know Mr Ellis , he is a good fiend of mine.He often states that there are Plastic Samurai going around nowadays.All I can say is this , if you have trained for years with Sensei like Tamura, Chiba Sensei, Saito Sensei etc I think its safe to say you are not a shrinking violet when confronted by potential aggressive people.Of course no one sensible tries to get involved in a skirmish, however if you do happen to be involved in one, no point in doing orthodox?aikido waza.Just keep it simple.A well delivered hit or a short kick to a kneecap usually works a treat.Cheers, Joe.

Dear Folks,
Of course I forgot to mention this, deliver any hit, kick with affection.If you have to chastise someone be firm but kind.Do not take it too personal.The other person is simply misguided.I think this is the essence of Aikido.To cause minimum harm to your enemy if humanly possible.Joe.

Chris Evans
10-19-2011, 10:48 AM
Dear Folks,
Of course I forgot to mention this, deliver any hit, kick with affection.If you have to chastise someone be firm but kind.Do not take it too personal.The other person is simply misguided.I think this is the essence of Aikido.To cause minimum harm to your enemy if humanly possible.Joe.

Hmmm...

My back ground has been in from taekwondo-karate & hapkido (which, I believe, combines elements of karate, jujitsu, and aikido), my defense 'contacts' over the years have displayed restraint: None involved kicks (i manage to resist a wide open low round kick to his head after he got knocked down and I actually apologized to the aggressor, mostly in fear of the scary bouncers). In the most recent case, in a commute BART train --Richmond bound, mere jumping in the middle of a beating was enough (resisted the urge to come in with a hook punch) to stop that battery-in-progress, but felt glad to be ready enough, and that perp quickly waked away (I got lucky).

I used to think kicks were my assets until I started sparring with competitive UFC "fighters" and kyokushin-karate "fighters", both types of players employ kicks to legs, which made me realize the "cost" of kicking and the earnestness of staying in balance and sabaki movements.

I'm still sorting out the "..To cause minimum harm to your enemy if humanly possible..." idealism: sounds good, but at times, naive. That's my Zen koan: Is the killing of a psychotic Icchantika (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icchantika) "blameless" since we are all Icchantika, in some ways. I agree with restraint, yet I have attachments to the notion that felons that have demonstrated selfish killer intent need not be granted mercy during the felon-in-progress.

Martial arts are fun way to holistic health, but if I spend the time I want to learn the practical, effective, ways, while balancing risks to injuries.

Rob Watson
10-19-2011, 02:19 PM
BART train --Richmond bound.

Even O'sensei declined to dodge bullets and never stepped foot in Richmond.

You originally said Berkeley but now expand to the full greater bay area? Too many places to list as there are so many really good places to train. Why not kajukenbo in SF (1819 Polk St) is pretty tasty!

Chris Evans
10-19-2011, 04:17 PM
Even O'sensei declined to dodge bullets and never stepped foot in Richmond.

You originally said Berkeley but now expand to the full greater bay area? Too many places to list as there are so many really good places to train. Why not kajukenbo in SF (1819 Polk St) is pretty tasty!

Berekeley is on the Richmond-bound train.

I'm particularly considering Suginami Aikikai SF with Clovis' BJJ since:
our son lives near that Aikido dojo and rolls at the BJJ gym there,
offers couple of kickboxing classes,
and on Saturdays I could do Aikido and BJJ after surfing at Linda Mar

The downside is I'd have to give up my knockdown karate classes on Tue's & Thr's. I was looking for Mon, Wed, Fri, & Sat spots.
I'd like to cross train in Aikido, while practicing MMA karate 2/week. Adding BJJ would be a nice bonus.

We're blessed with good martial and zazen opportunities in our area.

again, thank you for the suggestions

Chris Evans
08-17-2012, 09:33 AM
looks like I've found an aikido dojo, for now.

Although the Akido Institute, http://www.aikidoinstitute.org/ looks very interesting, the Aikido of Berkeley, http://aikidoofberkeley.com/, has also Free Aiki, http://freeaiki.com/, is closer to home with easy parking, and my wife appears to be interested in this dojo that has a female sensei (which makes absolutely no difference to me).

I'm looking for a more traditional aikido that's open to integrating with any kind of attacks, keeping an open mind, that may also contribute to my MMA endeavors.

Osu

Anthony Loeppert
08-17-2012, 02:21 PM
looks like I've found an aikido dojo, for now.


Phew, lucky for them, for the time being.

Haha. Sorry, I just found this sentence to be odd.

Chris Evans
08-17-2012, 03:43 PM
Phew, lucky for them, for the time being.

Haha. Sorry, I just found this sentence to be odd.

No need to apologize: No wrong was done.

I know I want to practice aikido, but I will not be sure if that's the dojo until I give a sincere "nyunanshin" effort.

Anthony Loeppert
08-17-2012, 10:00 PM
No need to apologize: No wrong was done.

I know I want to practice aikido, but I will not be sure if that's the dojo until I give a sincere "nyunanshin" effort.

I wasn't doubting your resolve to learn aikido, I was just imagining myself being part of that dojo and then reading that. But I've been told I'm too serious (I keep saying "it's just focus!") and need to smile more, so :)

Seriously,
Anthony
:D

Janet Rosen
08-18-2012, 01:05 AM
Chris, I've visited Kayla's dojo a number of times during the time it was in Richmond, and totally recommend it.

Nicholas Eschenbruch
08-18-2012, 12:17 PM
Chris, I've visited Kayla's dojo a number of times during the time it was in Richmond, and totally recommend it.

Visited only once, trained with her on other occasions - she is really great! Not seen the new dojo.

Chris Evans
08-19-2012, 11:28 PM
I wasn't doubting your resolve to learn aikido, I was just imagining myself being part of that dojo and then reading that. But I've been told I'm too serious (I keep saying "it's just focus!") and need to smile more, so :)

Seriously,
Anthony
:D

Your comments are appreciated. (Wasn't sure if my gratitude came through). Vigorous, practical, trainings are intrinsically rewarding, particularly when applied to by considerate & thoughtful people.

Chris Evans
08-19-2012, 11:29 PM
Thank you, Janet & Nicholas. New dojo's cozy, got to maintain 360* awareness.

Mary Eastland
08-20-2012, 11:28 AM
I watched Rhonda Rousey on Saturday night. She may not think a lot about Aikido but I think she was very centered as she entered right in Sarah Kaufman's punches and throughly dominated her in 54 seconds.

Chris Evans
08-20-2012, 11:47 AM
I watched Rhonda Rousey on Saturday night. She may not think a lot about Aikido but I think she was very centered as she entered right in Sarah Kaufman's punches and throughly dominated her in 54 seconds.

Thanks! I had missed that because I was hosting a dinner party (grilled lamb with fig & anyo (sp?) chilie sause).

Judo's wonderful, low delusional, training.

For me, I've had more injuries from that so called "gentle" sport than from all other marital arts/sports, combined: WTF TKD, karate, kickboxing, hapkido (my base), BJJ, & MMA.

Judo yudansha often scares me more than even BJJ's; I can tap out during ne-waza, but a brutally sloppy throw hurts too fast!

I do hope female MMA grows. Hope more of the recent London '12 judo women gets interested in the most honest combat/budo sport, MMA.

:)

Kevin Leavitt
08-21-2012, 02:42 PM
Ask me how my shoulder is? I was uchi mata'd in May by a judoka...a Russian, that pinned my by burying his shoulder on the throw resulting in complete separation, Rockwood IV separation to my AC joint requiring reconstructive surgery with wires. I'm out of competing for the next year in BJJ and cab no longer complete in Judo ever.

I'll stick to BJJ from now on as Judo tends to be very hard on the body.

lars beyer
08-22-2012, 12:35 AM
Ask me how my shoulder is? I was uchi mata'd in May by a judoka...a Russian, that pinned my by burying his shoulder on the throw resulting in complete separation, Rockwood IV separation to my AC joint requiring reconstructive surgery with wires. I'm out of competing for the next year in BJJ and cab no longer complete in Judo ever.

I'll stick to BJJ from now on as Judo tends to be very hard on the body.

Damn.. I had a Category II to III AC Joint separation in May as well.. tripped in my partners hakama
mid air, that stopped the roll and send me shoulder first into the matt.
No surgery for old cats like myself, and no contact sports for 6 months. Only aikido for me is aikiweb and youtube.. which drives me nuts..
Sounds like a good plan to quit Judo. I hope you will recover fully Kevin, best of luck !
Lars

Kevin Leavitt
08-22-2012, 06:46 AM
lol..so you know what I am dealing with Lars! CAT II and III is borderline for surgery of course, I had no choice at CAT IV to V. There is a 40% chance of failure with the repair as well, so not fun.

lars beyer
08-22-2012, 07:51 AM
lol..so you know what I am dealing with Lars! CAT II and III is borderline for surgery of course, I had no choice at CAT IV to V. There is a 40% chance of failure with the repair as well, so not fun.

I understand that young athletes would get surgery with cat II to III AC dislocation, but here in DK they treat people over 30 "conservative" meaning letting nature take care of it.
I do various soft excersizes with rubber bands building the internal muscles re-aligning the shoulder as correct as possible and recently I started lifting heavier weights to build up the big exterior muscle groups.
40 %.. thats a challenge. Keep the spirits high !

Chris Evans
08-22-2012, 08:29 AM
the pace of aikido basics classes, for me, are understandably slow and that since my knee has fully recover from the judo randori injury, I think I'm ready to practice judo again, to compliment/supplement my budding aikido.

the fact that judo is not "gentle" at all, with risks to injury during randori/throws and taking hard falls, makes it an effective conditioning for self-defense (saving lives) or for playing MMA.

phitruong
08-22-2012, 08:50 AM
the fact that judo is not "gentle" at all, with risks to injury during randori/throws and taking hard falls, makes it an effective conditioning for self-defense (saving lives) or for playing MMA.

question, how does busting yourself up during practice helping self-defense? maybe that's why they called it self-defense, as in defending against oneself.

Chris Evans
08-22-2012, 09:09 AM
question, how does busting yourself up during practice helping self-defense? maybe that's why they called it self-defense, as in defending against oneself.

the more you risk, the more rewarding is the training, up to a point.

taking hard falls on the mat conditions the body, particularly the crucial neck muscle that support the head, and the vigorous and supple "debate" improves balance and the ability to stay calm and clear minded.

aikido,
kyokushin (bare knuckle full contact) karate or muay Thai,
and
judo or jujutsu
are the "three legs" or dimensions of my budo practice, along with daily shikantaza practice.

having fun while improving martial conditioning is the hobby I am committed to. We get what we put into it, risks and all.

aside from the fun times, intrinsically, had by appropriately punishing training, the benefits are clear. For example, I fell off a ledge, of significant height, during cross country mountain bike race training, but landed, with my bike on a good side break fall, able to ride away with mere bruises. Sweet.

phitruong
08-22-2012, 09:22 AM
the more you risk, the more rewarding is the training, up to a point.

taking hard falls on the mat conditions the body, particularly the crucial neck muscle that support the head, and the vigorous and supple "debate" improves balance and the ability to stay calm and clear minded.



i don't question the conditioning of the body using the right approaches. i question the whole point of breaking your body to prove that you are tough to take on things. Ellis Amdur wrote about someone went to Iwama to practice and got his arm busted that he could no longer use it, ever again. how would losing the usage of the arm helping self-defense? that's my question. take Kevin for example, while healing from his injury got jumped, what would his chance be compare to when he wasn't injured. hard practice and smart practice are two different things. folks like to mention that they trained hard, but have not heard of folks mentioned training smart.

lars beyer
08-22-2012, 09:36 AM
i don't question the conditioning of the body using the right approaches. i question the whole point of breaking your body to prove that you are tough to take on things. Ellis Amdur wrote about someone went to Iwama to practice and got his arm busted that he could no longer use it, ever again. how would losing the usage of the arm helping self-defense? that's my question. take Kevin for example, while healing from his injury got jumped, what would his chance be compare to when he wasn't injured. hard practice and smart practice are two different things. folks like to mention that they trained hard, but have not heard of folks mentioned training smart.

Just want to mention that Aikido Journal has a good article on safe training practices http://blog.aikidojournal.com/2012/07/ (Aikido Journal has a good article on safe training practices http://blog.aikidojournal.com/2012/07/)
and there is another good one written by Gev Nagiba on the same topic about the importance on sanshin.

lars beyer
08-22-2012, 09:57 AM
Just want to mention that Aikido Journal has a good article on safe training practices http://blog.aikidojournal.com/2012/07/ (Aikido Journal has a good article on safe training practices http://blog.aikidojournal.com/2012/07/)
and there is another good one written by Gev Nagiba on the same topic about the importance on sanshin.

Sorry, I screwed up the link, here is the right one from July 25: http://blog.aikidojournal.com/2012/07/

Kevin Leavitt
08-22-2012, 10:03 AM
Yeah, I did alot of dumb things over my life that have resulted in me having long term injuries, back problems etc. Not sure dong all them damn breakfalls were necessary or worth it in the long run.

Kevin Leavitt
08-22-2012, 10:04 AM
I understand that young athletes would get surgery with cat II to III AC dislocation, but here in DK they treat people over 30 "conservative" meaning letting nature take care of it.
I do various soft excersizes with rubber bands building the internal muscles re-aligning the shoulder as correct as possible and recently I started lifting heavier weights to build up the big exterior muscle groups.
40 %.. thats a challenge. Keep the spirits high !

Thanks. that is what I understood too. pretty much the treatment worldwide. with CAT II and III it is really a toss up if the surgery is worth it.

Mike Hamer
08-22-2012, 11:41 AM
I have done cage fighting a couple times, and the biggest way that aikido helped me was in my ability to stay calm before and during the fight! This might not seem like a big deal to some, but it really is!

Chris Evans
08-22-2012, 12:06 PM
i don't question the conditioning of the body using the right approaches. i question the whole point of breaking your body to prove that you are tough to take on things. Ellis Amdur wrote about someone went to Iwama to practice and got his arm busted that he could no longer use it, ever again. how would losing the usage of the arm helping self-defense? that's my question. take Kevin for example, while healing from his injury got jumped, what would his chance be compare to when he wasn't injured. hard practice and smart practice are two different things. folks like to mention that they trained hard, but have not heard of folks mentioned training smart.

Here's an example of why our web forum helps us.
I've been lucky, so far. All the years of sparring (and competitions)
have spared me a lasting major injury

Such posts reminds me to be more careful which is why I am doing less MT style kickboxing sparring and more aikido. We all find a balance for ourselves. Exposure to regular vigorous training also brings its own luck and the ability to sense who you can trust to spar or randori WITH.

The myth does happen to be that most Aikidoka prefer too gentle or predictable contact, being shy or too "smart" about "eating bitter" to gain real "gung fu" level skills in aikido I appreciate you citing that example of the "loss of arm use" example.

in gassho

lars beyer
08-22-2012, 04:08 PM
Yeah, I did alot of dumb things over my life that have resulted in me having long term injuries, back problems etc. Not sure dong all them damn breakfalls were necessary or worth it in the long run.

Well, my shoulder injury was a freak accident since I tripped in nageīs Hakama.
The worst injury I had was as a beginner 11 years ago in a different style than I practise now.. Nage simply ignored my capabilities and made a full speed irimi that made me arch backwards causing a sprain in my lover back which followed me for several years..

To me this only proves that itīs the level of the sensei and his technical insight along with the general feel of the dojo that defines a safe practise invironment.
On a sidenote dojoīs with a good mixture of male and female practitioners makes for a more balanced training invironment with less testosterone and fewer accidents.
Maybe more women in here would be beneficial as well..?
:D

Kevin Leavitt
08-22-2012, 04:32 PM
Lol...yeah maybe more women! Sure, although maybe not!

My injury was due to a bunch of factors all which could have been mitigated by me or the instructor. Looking back it was stupid for me to train with the guy the way I did, and a good instructor would have provided the right oversight and risk control.

U play u pay!

lars beyer
08-22-2012, 04:55 PM
Lol...yeah maybe more women! Sure, although maybe not!

My injury was due to a bunch of factors all which could have been mitigated by me or the instructor. Looking back it was stupid for me to train with the guy the way I did, and a good instructor would have provided the right oversight and risk control.

U play u pay!

Your right...hmmm..