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Lulu
08-25-2011, 05:20 PM
I need to vent and would like some feedback. There is a Snooty, Pompous Baffoon that keeps showing up at our Dojo. Uninvited and completely unwelcome by me and other students. Not at the regular classes, but at special classes and functions. He corrects other students when training (regardless of rank) and thinks he knows everything.He has ruined Aikido for me and I want to tell him to stop coming to our Dojo, but Sensei won't let me.
I know that this sounds like kindergarten but this bozo is and idiot and seems to be completely unaware that NOBODY likes him or wants to train with him.
I see him at seminars and avoid him - I just NEVER want to see him come to our Dojo again. What do I do?????

Janet Rosen
08-25-2011, 05:33 PM
I think this is for the dojocho to decide how to handle. If the dojocho feels there is value in having this person present and sees no problem w/ his on the mat behavior, then your choice is to not show up or to relax, breathe, and figure out how to accept this person as a training partner. This may sound trite ... but sometimes THAT is the training.

Michael Hackett
08-25-2011, 05:36 PM
Let your sensei handle it, and until then make this character the very first person you train with when he's there. Seek him out and ask him to train. That's a lot like taking castor oil, get it over with and you won't have it nagging in the back of your mind.

Chicko Xerri
08-25-2011, 06:15 PM
I agree with Janet and Michael. It is Difficult, Hang in there its about changing yourself, he dosent understand this yet. You can if you feel mention the legal ramifications if some one gets injured. When he comes to Love Aikido he will change. Its up to your teacher to show how beautiful Aiki can be, for him to Love and change. I am sorry for your uncomfortable situation, it is an uncommon one.

Dave Gallagher
08-25-2011, 06:32 PM
This is an excellent situation to show the true essence of Aikido. You must blend with his energy and bring him into harmony with the universe.
If that does not work then just injure him so bad that he has to leave and never come back.
As far as the above two ideas go, Hey I'm just kidding.
Really have a one one talk with your sensei and find out the reason this guy is there. Maybe more to this than you know.

crbateman
08-25-2011, 06:49 PM
You have to defer to the person who's running the show. Good opportunity for you to work on your self-control... If you can resist the urge to engage in some live sword practice, then you have used this person to improve yourself. That's a positive outcome.

Lulu
08-25-2011, 06:58 PM
Thanks everyone. I do try to breathe and let it go, this guy really got to me and I just couldn't find the balance or harmony.
I will strive to be a better person - that is the Aiki way - but he is still a pompous baffoon!

David Orange
08-25-2011, 07:02 PM
Thanks everyone. I do try to breathe and let it go, this guy really got to me and I just couldn't find the balance or harmony.

You could also just put a finger to your lips when he corrects you and say "Shhh!"

That's one kind of breath power....

Good luck.

David

dps
08-25-2011, 07:22 PM
I need to vent and would like some feedback. There is a Snooty, Pompous Baffoon that keeps showing up at our Dojo. Uninvited and completely unwelcome by me and other students. Not at the regular classes, but at special classes and functions. He corrects other students when training (regardless of rank) and thinks he knows everything.He has ruined Aikido for me and I want to tell him to stop coming to our Dojo, but Sensei won't let me.
I know that this sounds like kindergarten but this bozo is and idiot and seems to be completely unaware that NOBODY likes him or wants to train with him.
I see him at seminars and avoid him - I just NEVER want to see him come to our Dojo again. What do I do?????

At the dojo where I used to train at we had a former student who had moved to California to study Aikido with Steven Seagal and on his visits home he would visit our dojo and do the exact same thing. Sensei said to deal with it so when he would correct me I totally ignored him and did it the way I was being taught. After a short while he would not practice with me at all.

Another previous student would show up at practice randomly and want to practice only the things he was working on himself in his basement dojo regardless what Sensei was having us practice on. Again I totally ignored him and did what Sensei said. After awhile he quit practicing with me.

Ignore him.

dps

oisin bourke
08-25-2011, 07:34 PM
I will strive to be a better person - that is the Aiki way - but he is still a pompous baffoon!:)

I think you mean that he is a pompous bufoon. To me,"Baffoon" evokes the image of a medium sized sea bird.

Rayleen Dehmke
08-25-2011, 08:52 PM
So many great responses. I too agree that it is up to your sensei to handle. He is a guest, I wouldn't worry too much about it. You run into all kinds of people no matter what you're doing. As long as this person isn't harming anyone, c'est la vie. It is all a great learning experience, maybe one of the sempai will have a discreet word with him.

David Orange
08-25-2011, 08:55 PM
I need to vent and would like some feedback. There is a Snooty, Pompous Baffoon that keeps showing up at our Dojo. Uninvited and completely unwelcome by me and other students...
I see him at seminars and avoid him - I just NEVER want to see him come to our Dojo again. What do I do?????

I notice that your avatar is the kanji for "samurai".

Many times, people think that samurai were all-out hard-line people but, below that surface, they were mainly people who had to get along with one another, even though a lot of them were real...snots.

Samurai really means "to serve". And in day-to-day life, that meant a lot of putting up with obnoxious behavior from others for the sake of the greater group.

Of course, there was the junior/senior thing, where you could put someone down because they were below you, or you just accepted their crap because they were above you. But mostly, it meant putting up with peers who you couldn't judge because that would lead to factions in your group, which would damage the harmony of your group, which would ultimately lead to defeat in battle. (not to say there wasn't a lot of back-stabbing behind the scenes....)

But, really, it usually meant a lot of suppression of your personal feelings for the sake of the group. That was the bulk of samurai life.

Just something to think about.

Best to you.

David

Chris Covington
08-26-2011, 08:46 AM
I need to vent and would like some feedback. There is a Snooty, Pompous Baffoon that keeps showing up at our Dojo. Uninvited and completely unwelcome by me and other students. Not at the regular classes, but at special classes and functions. He corrects other students when training (regardless of rank) and thinks he knows everything.He has ruined Aikido for me and I want to tell him to stop coming to our Dojo, but Sensei won't let me.
I know that this sounds like kindergarten but this bozo is and idiot and seems to be completely unaware that NOBODY likes him or wants to train with him.
I see him at seminars and avoid him - I just NEVER want to see him come to our Dojo again. What do I do?????

It seems like homeboy is showing up at special classes only? Maybe they are open seminar style class? Sadly you have to deal with real jerks sometimes at open seminars. If what he is "teaching" on the mat is wrong than stop his technique and counter him. It isn't fair to him to let him go on thinking his stuff works when it doesn't. That makes you dishonest and you rob him of his chance to improve.

After a kenjutsu class I was showing a few of the kenjutsu guys some aikijujutsu because a few of them had never done an unarmed martial art before (I had my kenjutsu teacher's permission). We had a visitor watch the class. Mid 20's, fit, wearing an Israeli Special Forces shirt. He said he just came back from Israel so I'm thinking the guy might actually know something. Anyway, we were doing our thing and he comes over and asks about it after seeing our techniques. He said he knew some wrist locks he'd show me (acting kind of brazen). At this point I'm thinking "uh oh what is this guy thinking?" So he tells me to grab his shirt and he tries to do the lamest kotegaeshi I've ever felt. I stood there looking at him like he had two heads. He turned red and looked very confused. Because I can be a nice guy sometimes (it's rare) I tried to change the topic a little and asked if he learned martial arts in the Israeli army, pointing at his shirt. He said he just picked up the shirt at a store while he was over there visiting family he's never been in any army. :o We never saw him again. Maybe that was my fault.

Another similar story... When I was training Daito-ryu years ago at another dojo we had a visitor from another branch of Daito-ryu (I won't say which branch) come by to check us out. He had a shodan in their branch (I think I was a shodan too). After class he started talking about how in his branch they do it a certain way that is easier, smaller movements, less energy, real aiki etc. One of my fellow students who is known for an unforgiving attitude asked if he can do it like he says. The guys said yeah. My buddy says ok do it to him, pointing to me. Same results as above. I stood there, he looked confused and turned red. Then we heard some excuses about he hasn't trained in a few months and he needed to check with some videos to see what he's doing wrong etc. We never saw the guy again even though he promised he'd check the video of his teacher and come back and show us :D I has since started my own club about 5 years later so maybe he came back and I just wasn't there? :D

Results may vary. It worked for me though. No one got hurt but some egos.

phitruong
08-26-2011, 09:00 AM
:)

I think you mean that he is a pompous bufoon. To me,"Baffoon" evokes the image of a medium sized sea bird.

a "baffoon" is a barfing buffoon. :)

oisin bourke
08-26-2011, 09:09 AM
a "baffoon" is a barfing buffoon. :)

Or a wind instrument with a lisp.:)

We better stop, we're going to get banned very foo..soon.

Cliff Judge
08-26-2011, 09:28 AM
I try to take people like this as an opportunity to train imperturbability. This guy shouldn't get a rise out of you or ruin your practice. When he starts to get your hackles up, acknowledge it and let it go.

lbb
08-26-2011, 09:31 AM
Thanks everyone. I do try to breathe and let it go, this guy really got to me and I just couldn't find the balance or harmony.
I will strive to be a better person - that is the Aiki way - but he is still a pompous baffoon!

Eh, never mind being a "better person". Never mind the "Aiki way". Those sound to me like "supposed to" things, like you feel you're supposed to do it. Your response to the situation should be authentic and should come from your true self, not from a contrived image of what an aikidoka is supposed to be like.

Of course, being authentic doesn't mean having zero impulse control. It doesn't mean that you just let fly with anything you want to say or do. Your response to the situation should neither be shooting from the hip, nor selections from the Book of Aikido Platitudes. Think instead about why the situation annoys you. The useful truth is probably somewhere other than either "because he's a jerk (he's bad, blame him)" and "because I'm just not aiki enough (I'm bad, blame me)". Figure out the truth of the situation, then figure out the best response to it.

Marc Abrams
08-26-2011, 09:42 AM
When this person is trying to "correct" you, I would simply call over your teacher to get your teacher's opinion on how it should be done. This would be a simple and direct way to allow your teacher to become involved in this situation so that it must be dealt with by the person who is responsible for the dojo.

Good Luck!

Marc Abrams

Keith Larman
08-26-2011, 10:18 AM
Yeah, what Marc said. I've done that before only to have a similar idiot (I wonder if it's the same guy? ;) ) go right back to his own ideas of what he should be doing. Eventually it becomes pointless to worry about it -- as an earlier poster suggested when we had a guy like that I'd make sure I'd pair up with him for some less than interesting practice to get it out of the way. Then I'd avoid him like the plague when it was anything I really did want to practice sincerely.

There's a lifetime left to practice. Guys like that are just bumps on the road. Let sensei deal with it. If they don't, fine, don't waste more time than you need to. And certainly don't waste your mental energy worrying about it.

crbateman
08-26-2011, 11:02 AM
When this person is trying to "correct" you, I would simply call over your teacher to get your teacher's opinion on how it should be done. This would be a simple and direct way to allow your teacher to become involved in this situation so that it must be dealt with by the person who is responsible for the dojo.

Marc, I see one small fallacy to your suggestion. You have not allowed for the possibility that the teacher has already noticed the situation, and has chosen to deal with it by not dealing with it. To bring him in to arbitrate on the mat could put the teacher in an uncomfortable position or even to have to settle the matter in a manner that was not his preferred one. I think it would be better to discuss the matter privately with the teacher first, before putting him "on the spot".

George S. Ledyard
08-26-2011, 11:14 AM
I need to vent and would like some feedback. There is a Snooty, Pompous Baffoon that keeps showing up at our Dojo. Uninvited and completely unwelcome by me and other students. Not at the regular classes, but at special classes and functions. He corrects other students when training (regardless of rank) and thinks he knows everything.He has ruined Aikido for me and I want to tell him to stop coming to our Dojo, but Sensei won't let me.
I know that this sounds like kindergarten but this bozo is and idiot and seems to be completely unaware that NOBODY likes him or wants to train with him.
I see him at seminars and avoid him - I just NEVER want to see him come to our Dojo again. What do I do?????

Don't train with him... Don't sit down next to him, bow to the person on the other side of you if you get stuck next to him, basically act as if this person isn't there.

Ketsan
08-26-2011, 11:16 AM
In these situations I just say "I've been with Sensei for over eight years, I know how he wants me to do things. If there is a problem with my technique then Sensei will correct it,"

graham christian
08-26-2011, 11:19 AM
I view it this way. It depends what your purpose is for doing Aikido. If your purpose is to be stable and able then it's time to let yourself know this has nothing to do with him. Thus we discover the self development side.

Later when you observe it and yet are unperturbed by it yet can see it needs handling then you can take responsibility for it a bit like the examples given by Chris Covington.

Regards.G.

lbb
08-26-2011, 11:21 AM
Marc, I see one small fallacy to your suggestion. You have not allowed for the possibility that the teacher has already noticed the situation, and has chosen to deal with it by not dealing with it. To bring him in to arbitrate on the mat could put the teacher in an uncomfortable position or even to have to settle the matter in a manner that was not his preferred one.

I don't think you have to go there, if you handle it the right way. You don't have to ask sensei to arbitrate. Drop that whole elaborate and unnecessary story line -- don't make it about this guy and what you think he is and what you think his motivations are. Don't say, "He thinks it's like this but I think it's like this, who's right?" -- if for no other reason than that you're quite possibly both wrong! Just say, "Sensei, I don't think I understand what we're supposed to be doing, can you help?" And then, go with what sensei tells you, and don't expect your partner to be humbled or chastened or feel put in his place or anything, because your practice shouldn't be about him. You are there for your practice, not to improve his character. Get on with your practice and never mind the rest.

Marc Abrams
08-26-2011, 11:56 AM
Marc, I see one small fallacy to your suggestion. You have not allowed for the possibility that the teacher has already noticed the situation, and has chosen to deal with it by not dealing with it. To bring him in to arbitrate on the mat could put the teacher in an uncomfortable position or even to have to settle the matter in a manner that was not his preferred one. I think it would be better to discuss the matter privately with the teacher first, before putting him "on the spot".

Clark:

It sounds like the initial poster has had some private communication with the teacher already. Maybe speaking to the teacher again might spur the teacher to more directly address the situation, I don't know. I think that Mary did a better job of trying to convey what I wanted to suggest. I would not be asking the teacher to arbitrate but to demonstrate to us how a technique should be done. Then it is clear to both people what Sensei would like done.

Regards,

Marc Abrams

Chris Li
08-26-2011, 12:06 PM
I need to vent and would like some feedback. There is a Snooty, Pompous Baffoon that keeps showing up at our Dojo. Uninvited and completely unwelcome by me and other students. Not at the regular classes, but at special classes and functions. He corrects other students when training (regardless of rank) and thinks he knows everything.He has ruined Aikido for me and I want to tell him to stop coming to our Dojo, but Sensei won't let me.
I know that this sounds like kindergarten but this bozo is and idiot and seems to be completely unaware that NOBODY likes him or wants to train with him.
I see him at seminars and avoid him - I just NEVER want to see him come to our Dojo again. What do I do?????

Most of the responses seem to fall into either the "ignore him" or "talk to the instructor" category. Here's a radical idea - why not just talk to the guy directly and tell him what you think?

I'm not saying you can't do it in a friendly way, but if it really bothers you that much than you ought to do something about it.

Best,

Chris

Walter Martindale
08-26-2011, 12:52 PM
Just say, "Sensei, I don't think I understand what we're supposed to be doing, can you help?" And then, go with what sensei tells you, and don't expect your partner to be humbled or chastened or feel put in his place or anything, because your practice shouldn't be about him. You are there for your practice, not to improve his character. Get on with your practice and never mind the rest.

I love this approach. Was at a seminar once - still nikyu, struggling to do what I thought (the late) Kawahara shihan had asked us to practice - working with a fellow who was a yondan. The yondan kept correcting me. I asked Sensei because I really didn't get what he was doing. So, I got the explanation in Japanese (which I really don't get very much of), and "wakaru ka".. I understood the movement he was doing (happened to be what I'd been trying to do but didn't have the right ma-ai) but I kept saying um, no (because I didn't understand the verbal part). However, he kept demonstrating on the yondan, which was alright with me, because Kawahara could REALLY cause pain, and I really didn't like this particular yondan that much.
:D
W

Mark Gibbons
08-26-2011, 12:55 PM
Clark:

... Then it is clear to both people what Sensei would like done.



That's all it takes to get clarity about an aikido technique? How I wish it worked that way for me. :)

thisisnotreal
08-26-2011, 01:18 PM
one strike. one kill.

jamie yugawa
08-26-2011, 01:33 PM
Great Post!!
One other way to think about this is there is always that "One person". Either at work, social setting or somewhere you are. This can be great training to blend with those individuals because sometimes there are no other options. Or the other options are to find another club, workplace or avoid the person completely which sometimes is not reasonable.

lbb
08-26-2011, 01:34 PM
one strike. one kill.

It's an approach! :D

dps
08-26-2011, 02:05 PM
One option would to say rather loudly, "Shut the (insert favorite curse word ) up."

dps

p.s.

I thought he meant pompous baboons.

valjean
08-26-2011, 02:48 PM
Don't train with him... Don't sit down next to him, bow to the person on the other side of you if you get stuck next to him, basically act as if this person isn't there.

This seems like practical advice to me. I'm not an aikido expert, but I am a psychologist, so I tend to appreciate practical advice.

The one thing I'd add is that while you may not have any right to control who participates in the dojo, you certainly have the right to express yourself and to vote with your feet. If you have serious concerns about this other person, and he's truly ruining your experience of aikido, then your sensei needs to know how you feel about it. I can imagine lots of reasons why sensei might not immediately act on your complaint. On the other hand, I can also imagine a lot of ways that sensei might respond to you in a way that suggests that he "hears" you, short of kicking the problem guy out. If you get no meaningful response at all and the problem continues unabated, then it's something to factor into your future assessment of the dojo.

I don't know any secrets about the essence of aiki. But adaptive coping in the rest of our lives involves both being able to tolerate occasional episodes of obnoxious behavior, but also being reasonably assertive and knowing when not to tolerate it as well.

Mario Tobias
08-26-2011, 02:59 PM
You will always encounter difficult people in a dojo.

The thing is the more you think of the person, the more it annoys you and the more it intrudes into your once peaceful life. When this happens, you start LOSING to the other person.

How I deal with it is to take a deep breath, forget and let it go. I would take the higher road. I will not permit myself to have my day or even a second of my day ruined by something like this. I've got more important problems to resolve.

If you have the unfortunate chance that you train with him, accept that you can learn from everybody but filter the information. You can always filter out useless information (which is the most likely situation here). Similarly, you always have the power to filter out unwanted thoughts no matter how bad or uncomfortable the situation is. You cant change others but you can change yourself.

Don't let a memory of this person take an iota of space in your brain. Take deep breaths and let go. Usually, it would turn out ok for both you and the other person....especially for you.

Sometimes, the fight is not physical ....but mental, think about it.

best of luck

Lyle Laizure
08-26-2011, 05:09 PM
I have read a few of the responses and I have to agree it is up to the chief instructor to make the decision to let the individual attend but disagree with the idea that you just ignore the individal. He is breaking basic etiquette, IMO, and he should be called on it every time. In many situations I have personally seen in the past ignoring the individual will likely lead to his departure but in the mean time he infects others with his posionous attitude. Regardless of how big a bafoon he or she may be there is always someone willing to listen. I don't understand how the aiki way is to go along to get along. If this is the case why bother training in the first place.

Lulu
08-26-2011, 05:12 PM
These are great responses!!! I do avoid this jerk like the plague, and he shows up only for the special, un-advertised classes. We think that one of our friends tells him about it because the class is for our students & friends only.
At seminars - no problem - I stay away.
This last time I was very stressed and just his presence was enough to make me crazy!
I deal with idiots all day at work and need Aikido to keep me sane & happy!
Thanks to all of you for giving me suggestions and food for thought.
I do need to remember that I am training for me - don't make it about that moron!!! Thanks for reminding me:)
Lisa

Keith Larman
08-26-2011, 06:32 PM
Just to kind of sum up my own thoughts...

One issue is relative rank, etc. There have been times I've been in someone else's class where I'm working with a beginner. As a fellow instructor if there is something I'm *really* sure he's doing wrong I'll do what I can. If the student doesn't listen/get it/whatever, I try to get the instructor's attention -- it is their class therefore up to them to deal with someone who isn't working off the same page.

If the person is nearer in rank (or higher), I might ask the instructor for help to clarify what I'm doing. Otherwise I just go along with it. Again, if I'm not the one teaching I'm not going to be stepping on the instructor's toes.

I do think, however, that the instructor should know this is going on. I've seen guys totally ignore the instructions of the sensei. Then noticed that the sensei stops correcting them. That seems to me to be an insidious problem since the guy doing it wrong probably thinks they're getting tacit approval when in fact the sensei has written them off.

So... Ultimately the responsibility is with the instructor. You can call the instructor over for "advice" in a polite manner to call attention to it. Then the ball is in their court. Hopefully they do something about it before it gets ugly, but sometimes things just have to get ugly.

If you're not a fellow instructor there's not much you can do except ask for clarification from your sensei. At that point I'd go back to avoiding the person whenever possible. Sometimes there are just people you shouldn't train with. Lord knows there are a few people I feel that way about myself.

Shadowfax
08-26-2011, 08:48 PM
I've only run into one or two of these types. My favorite thing to do is to do exactly what they are telling me to do and just wait for sensei to come over and lecture me. Then I just stare at them accusingly and say but he told me to.....;)

I had the pleasure once of seeing one of them get thoroughly dressed down by sensei... who just happened to be Mary Heiny. :D

Janet Rosen
08-26-2011, 11:19 PM
I've only run into one or two of these types. My favorite thing to do is to do exactly what they are telling me to do and just wait for sensei to come over and lecture me. Then I just stare at them accusingly and say but he told me to.....;)

I had the pleasure once of seeing one of them get thoroughly dressed down by sensei... who just happened to be Mary Heiny. :D

Hehehe- I've done that too!
This is BTW a really good thread.

Mary Eastland
08-27-2011, 04:36 PM
I need to vent and would like some feedback. There is a Snooty, Pompous Baffoon that keeps showing up at our Dojo. Uninvited and completely unwelcome by me and other students. Not at the regular classes, but at special classes and functions. He corrects other students when training (regardless of rank) and thinks he knows everything.He has ruined Aikido for me and I want to tell him to stop coming to our Dojo, but Sensei won't let me.
I know that this sounds like kindergarten but this bozo is and idiot and seems to be completely unaware that NOBODY likes him or wants to train with him.
I see him at seminars and avoid him - I just NEVER want to see him come to our Dojo again. What do I do?????

He seems like a pretty powerful guy if can ruin Aikido for you.

Have you ever spent time chatting with him after class? If I find a person to be particularly troublesome for me, I train with them anyway because that person gives me the opportunity to learn so much about myself.
I was taught that my reactions to people are all I can concern myself with.
I wish you luck with your practice.

lbb
08-27-2011, 05:06 PM
Have you ever spent time chatting with him after class?

He's not a regular student at this dojo, so that opportunity may not be there.

If I find a person to be particularly troublesome for me, I train with them anyway because that person gives me the opportunity to learn so much about myself.
I was taught that my reactions to people are all I can concern myself with.

I agree with both of these, and yet I have to wonder -- if you've learned a lesson, does it really benefit you to keep learning it over and over again? Is it really "learning" if you already know it? At what point does it become gratuitous self-torture? I think with some people, depending on who you are and who they are, there's a point where the sane response is to just say to yourself, "Right, I've done what I can with this" -- echoing your sentiment that all you control is yourself -- accept that the situation isn't going to change, and exercise your option to stay away from it.

Mary Eastland
08-27-2011, 05:11 PM
I guess it does if the same person keeps presenting the same problem to me.
I had a person that I would like to say was this or that and yet really the problem was my lack of acceptance for that person being exactly like they were.

There will always be someone to blame. I am interested in being able to deal with whoever comes into the dojo...I don't have to like someone to learn from them.

SRB
08-28-2011, 08:14 AM
Most of the responses seem to fall into either the "ignore him" or "talk to the instructor" category. Here's a radical idea - why not just talk to the guy directly and tell him what you think?

I'm not saying you can't do it in a friendly way, but if it really bothers you that much than you ought to do something about it.

Best,

Chris

I'm a fan of this approach!!!!!!!!!!

lbb
08-28-2011, 09:16 AM
I guess it does if the same person keeps presenting the same problem to me.
I had a person that I would like to say was this or that and yet really the problem was my lack of acceptance for that person being exactly like they were.

Yes, but accepting someone being who they are doesn't mean that you approve of what they're doing or that you need to expose yourself to that person further. Just to use one example, if you have a loved one who's a substance abuser, a sane and healthy response is not to further immerse yourself in their addictive behavior in the name of some concept of acceptance. Accepting who someone is implies nothing about willingness to be around them, and that has nothing to do with blame.

Gary David
08-28-2011, 10:27 AM
All things considered here...I would think that this individual is known to your instructor and it is likely that your instructor is the source of the initiation. Your instructor's responsibility is to be aware of all things that are going on with respect to the training that is occurring while he is teaching.....so it is likely that your instructors knows what is going on and gives tacit approval to the behavior.

Over the years the seniors I have trained with that were a source of concern I just avoided. Some folks just don't get it no matter how much you sit and chat with them....some just won't see you as someone worth talking to or listening to. Those individuals who were at my general level I "talked" to them on the mat and they did their "listen" on the mat.

Just another approach.....you need a full tool kit.....

Mary Eastland
08-28-2011, 10:57 AM
I don't have to approve of someone to be able to learn from them. For me, ( just for me...I am not saying what others should do), each opportunity of each time on the mat provides a new experience. By labeling someone as this or that I am depriving myself of the now.

People are complex. With some understanding this guy might be fun to train with. I had a student who I really couldn't stand. He was very difficult. He helped me become a good teacher by questioning me, doubting me and being noticeably different to Ron.
I don't miss him a bit and yet I am very grateful to him. Did he ruin my Aikido experience? No, he enhanced it.

dps
08-28-2011, 01:41 PM
Yes, but accepting someone being who they are doesn't mean that you approve of what they're doing or that you need to expose yourself to that person further. Just to use one example, if you have a loved one who's a substance abuser, a sane and healthy response is not to further immerse yourself in their addictive behavior in the name of some concept of acceptance. Accepting who someone is implies nothing about willingness to be around them, and that has nothing to do with blame.

Acceptance is also acknowledging it is not up to you to change or
help them change thier behavior.

dps

tarik
08-28-2011, 06:23 PM
I agree with both of these, and yet I have to wonder -- if you've learned a lesson, does it really benefit you to keep learning it over and over again? Is it really "learning" if you already know it? At what point does it become gratuitous self-torture? I think with some people, depending on who you are and who they are, there's a point where the sane response is to just say to yourself, "Right, I've done what I can with this" -- echoing your sentiment that all you control is yourself -- accept that the situation isn't going to change, and exercise your option to stay away from it.

I agree with Mary. I got (and can get) a lot out of forcing myself to train with difficult people. Over the years, I have learned a great deal.. about myself, about them, about how we can possibly interact.

But I certainly don't have to keep doing it to make what I learned useful or applicable, and I would never allow it in my dojo unless I genuinely believed that it would improve the training. Even then, such a thing is highly situational and should be temporary.

Regards,

jester
08-28-2011, 06:34 PM
He corrects other students when training (regardless of rank) and thinks he knows everything.

Is he any good? Does what he say make any sense at all or is he a newbie??

-

Alberto_Italiano
10-23-2011, 06:57 PM
I need to vent and would like some feedback. There is a Snooty, Pompous Baffoon that keeps showing up at our Dojo. Uninvited and completely unwelcome by me and other students. Not at the regular classes, but at special classes and functions. He corrects other students when training (regardless of rank) and thinks he knows everything.He has ruined Aikido for me and I want to tell him to stop coming to our Dojo, but Sensei won't let me.
I know that this sounds like kindergarten but this bozo is and idiot and seems to be completely unaware that NOBODY likes him or wants to train with him.
I see him at seminars and avoid him - I just NEVER want to see him come to our Dojo again. What do I do?????

(Aiki-do-)beat him up. Does wonders.

Next time you do randori with him or a techinique with him, kick his ass - kotegaeshi him as if there were no tomorrow (you may enjoy a few startled looks in his eyes when you get through fully serious, because normally they are not familiar with that).

If you have to train with one technique, apply instead the one that comes spontaneous to you and make him see the mat. Irimi without mercy, atemi with a true smack (not punch) in the face, unbalance him without mercy, throw him without mercy and when he gets up and whines, say you're sorry and that you apologize and that, indeed, you need another chance because you're a student and you have not much control over your techniques so you need to learn by him.

Then, kick his ass once again.

If he kicks yours (which I doubt), stay undaunted and at the first occasion irimi him again with full intention, push, unbalance, kokyunage with intention but not too much so that as he almost falls you grab his wrist and throw him the opposite direction (and if at the end you also let him go, he may bounce around). Make him tour and sweep the mat.

Doing that twice should be enough - he will stay away from you because you're not "aiki"...

If instead he appreciates that and does not complain and does not accuse you of not being aiki and is undaunted himself, then by all accounts follow his advice.

In shorter words: test him. I have said beat him up to be iconic - indeed what you're doing is: testing.

If he wins or he loses but does not complain, he may be worth of something indeed.
But if he loses and complains, he's the bozo you said.

In itself the fact nobody likes someone, could flag both situations: stupidity, or talent. So you need to test him.
It does not matter whether he wins or loses: it matters what he does when faced with brutality.
Then you will know.

RED
10-27-2011, 02:25 PM
I love guys like that. Irritating yes. Change of perspective maybe; you are there to improve you, and he is so willing to correct you...thus, you are there training for you, and he is there training for you... all the focus is on you and not him. lol He gets nothing, you get everything. I smile and nod in those situations... all the focus is on me...even if they are irritating the hell out of me, I remind myself that right now this fool is making the training session only focused on my advancement, not his.

Larry Cuvin
10-27-2011, 02:58 PM
If you can stop all his techniques every time, nothing to learn from this guy but self control (a good thing). If you can't, you learn something (improve your technique and your self control). Win-win situation.

Plus Ki.

genin
10-27-2011, 03:49 PM
I love guys like that. Irritating yes. Change of perspective maybe; you are there to improve you, and he is so willing to correct you...thus, you are there training for you, and he is there training for you... all the focus is on you and not him. lol He gets nothing, you get everything. I smile and nod in those situations... all the focus is on me...even if they are irritating the hell out of me, I remind myself that right now this fool is making the training session only focused on my advancement, not his.
True, you can turn the focus inward onto yourself, and just use him as a tool for your personal training and advancement.

Also, as much as I hate to say it, you can try passive aggressive jabs at him. Anytime he speaks out, you can immediately respond with a comment he would find agravating or insulting. But don't be openly rude about it. A lot of times people can't help being themselves, and they don't even realize they are putting others off by virtue of the things they say. Sometimes putting people in their place can be the eye-opener they needed in order to see the error of their ways.