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graham christian
08-13-2011, 08:23 PM
Thought I would put here the five principles of Aikido so that those who are unaware of them may know that the four principles of mind and body coordination are not the sum of his Aikido.

1) Extend Ki.

2) Know your partner's mind.

3) Respect your partner's Ki.

4) Put yourself in partner's place.

5) Perform with confidence.

When performing the actions of Aikido then not only do you have to have mind and body co-ordination but you have to learn these factors too. Thus comes about the journey of his Aikido.

Regards.G.

PhillyKiAikido
08-20-2011, 05:06 PM
Graham, thanks for sharing this. It looks like nobody really care about these principles. I guess people have more interests in reinventing the wheel.

graham christian
08-20-2011, 06:16 PM
Graham, thanks for sharing this. It looks like nobody really care about these principles. I guess people have more interests in reinventing the wheel.

Hi Ting.
I didn't expect much of a debate but the fact that a number of people read it then it served it's purpose which was purely to show that there was more to Toheis Aikido than just what they had been talking about.

Add to that the fact that these principles as just words on a page to many don't make much sense for they are disciplines to use and learn from in action. Then and only then could you debate them really.

Thanks for the acknowledgement.

Regards.G.

SeiserL
08-21-2011, 07:03 AM
I guess people have more interests in reinventing the wheel.
Perhaps some of us are fine with the four principles taught by Tohei and not reinventing or adding to them.

However, I do like these, but not sure they actually came directly from Tohei. Where did he specific say/write these?

Thoughts?

graham christian
08-21-2011, 08:47 AM
Perhaps some of us are fine with the four principles taught by Tohei and not reinventing or adding to them.

However, I do like these, but not sure they actually came directly from Tohei. Where did he specific say/write these?

Thoughts?

Hi Lynn.
I am surprised you think they didn't come from Tohei. They are actually the basic continuous rules of his Aikido. For example, when someone attacks with tsuki and you taisabaki the question is as per no.4 ie: did you put yourself in the partners place? ie: Did you do a complete taisabake into the place where the partner is just leaving (centre of his circle) as he is now moving. Then there is the advanced aspects of the same principle which are more spiritual ie: mind and mind as one etc.

However I have found a place where you can see a printout of these sets of principles on google.

Type in 'Tohei World Camp 2003.'

There were many sets of principles he had as well as these for use in life and behaviour etc. They usually numbered five.

Regards. G.

graham christian
08-21-2011, 08:56 AM
http://www.shinichitohei.com/english/

Hi lynne. Also found this link you may find interesting.

Regards.G.

Mary Eastland
08-21-2011, 11:06 AM
Can you help understand this?

I do have a question about "Knowing your partners mind"...
I can know what is happening with my partner at the moment that we call now... and I wouldn't call it knowing my partner's mind...

graham christian
08-21-2011, 11:53 AM
Can you help understand this?

I do have a question about "Knowing your partners mind"...
I can know what is happening with my partner at the moment that we call now... and I wouldn't call it knowing my partner's mind...

Hi Mary.
Yes I agree that through the point of stillness or now you can do so. I equate this with true mind through which you can know.

I will add here that when I was taught these principles we for the most part left that one as something we would understand eventually and what you say is what we eventually found also.

On the next rule of respect your partners Ki we were taught that lead your partners ki was part of that one discipline or rule.

It now makes sense to me as once you 'know your partners mind' you are in fact in 'now' and so are completely aware of the partners intention (mind) and thus the direction of their Ki and by respecting that can harmonize with it and lead it. So number 2 leads to number three.

So in very simplistic terms it means know the intention.

This is how I see it.

Regards.G.

Mary Eastland
08-21-2011, 02:49 PM
Thank you...I will think on that.

Mark Freeman
08-21-2011, 05:16 PM
Hi,

these 5 principles are fundamental to me as I have practiced with them on the dojo wall since I started.

As a teacher walking round the mat, watching what each student needs some input on, these principles underly every adjustment that needs to be made. Of course the focus of the adjustment is often postural/structural, but underneath is always one or more of the principles not being followed.

These 5 principles are not just for the dojo though, they are just as relevant to everyday life, and those of us who practice with those principles as a matter of course, try to put them into practice all the time. Not always easy, I find life outside the dojo can throw you some mean attacks. The dojo is a relatively benign place, compared to what real life can throw at us.

So much of aikido philosophy is useable in the everyday context, but these 5 principles are a simple uncluttered set to live and practice by.

In the question that Mary put to Graham, I don't think you can ever really know what is in someones mind, each individual has their own subjective reality, which is personal. However in the context of aikido, I agree with Graham in that it is the intent (to strike, to grab, to cut) that is, in that moment, what you know.

As for the lack of debate, well it is a bit surprising that there isn't much more of one. But there seems to be little argument to be had, over solid principles that work.

regards,

Mark

SeiserL
08-22-2011, 12:09 PM
I am surprised you think they didn't come from Tohei. They are actually the basic continuous rules of his Aikido.
Thanks,

Coming up through the Aikikai I was only aware of the initial four.

I will study all of these further.

Thanks again.

graham christian
08-22-2011, 01:01 PM
Thanks,

Coming up through the Aikikai I was only aware of the initial four.

I will study all of these further.

Thanks again.

Hi Lynne.
Thanks for the response.

When I came into Aikido my teacher was actually from the Aikikai. He had chosen to go independent and although the political scene of Aikido and the split here in England has been well documented by such as Henry Ellis, I was unaware of such things as a student.

So I was taught actually thinking it was all Aikikai and that all Aikido was the same.

Later I found that those from yoshinkan who came to our dojo did it differently and that was my first awareness of differences.

On asking my teacher he explained it to us as a matter of spiritual discipline versus physical only. His view was that those who didn't understand the spiritual/philosophical went one direction and those who did went another.

Thus I found that those who adhered to Toheis view had split. He himself it turned out had gone independent because he didn't like the politics and in fact taught the Tohei principles along with his zen attitude and as I've only just discovered an understanding of Koshi and it's significance in Aikido.

Now who he got this Koshi aspect from I don't know, maybe Tohei, maybe noro, maybe Nakazono. All I know is it was there as part of my Aikido from the beginning.

Thus I understand how the fullness of one style of Aikido may not be fully appreciated by those of another style.

The number of times I've met people from other styles who wonder 'how I do that' are innumerable and only serve to show the vast array of differences.

There was in fact one lady who came from Aikikai as a shodan, I think she had done it for ten years, who then spent six years with us before she went up north to manchester where she said she would open her own independent dojo. I should catch up with her soon to see how she's doing.

Anyway it's all good learning.

Thanks again.

Regards,G.

graham christian
08-22-2011, 05:12 PM
Hi,

these 5 principles are fundamental to me as I have practiced with them on the dojo wall since I started.

As a teacher walking round the mat, watching what each student needs some input on, these principles underly every adjustment that needs to be made. Of course the focus of the adjustment is often postural/structural, but underneath is always one or more of the principles not being followed.

These 5 principles are not just for the dojo though, they are just as relevant to everyday life, and those of us who practice with those principles as a matter of course, try to put them into practice all the time. Not always easy, I find life outside the dojo can throw you some mean attacks. The dojo is a relatively benign place, compared to what real life can throw at us.

So much of aikido philosophy is useable in the everyday context, but these 5 principles are a simple uncluttered set to live and practice by.

In the question that Mary put to Graham, I don't think you can ever really know what is in someones mind, each individual has their own subjective reality, which is personal. However in the context of aikido, I agree with Graham in that it is the intent (to strike, to grab, to cut) that is, in that moment, what you know.

As for the lack of debate, well it is a bit surprising that there isn't much more of one. But there seems to be little argument to be had, over solid principles that work.

regards,

Mark

Hi Mark.
Glad to see you commenting as you no doubt are a good representative for the principles of Toheis Aikido.

I posted it because I believed many thought they knew yet by their comments I could see they didn't.

Regards.G.

Mary Eastland
08-22-2011, 05:44 PM
This has been a most interesting discussion...thanks to all the participants...I will read more about the 5 principles.

graham christian
08-22-2011, 06:33 PM
This has been a most interesting discussion...thanks to all the participants...I will read more about the 5 principles.

Hi Mary.
Thanks. I believe your Aikido is in fact very similar to Toheis is it not? Thus your study will show you some of the roots or origins of what you already do I would think.

Excuse me if I am wrong about that for I am assuming a link.

Thanks again.

Regards.G.

Mary Eastland
08-22-2011, 09:57 PM
You are right... our teacher was a student of Tohei.