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andrew walters
07-27-2011, 04:31 PM
I Need Some Advice Becasue Im Getting Realy Upset. I Have Been Training In Aikido For A Year Now And Im Due To Take My Yellow Belt Test Soon. I Just Cant Do The Backwards Roll Which I Need To Do For The Test. Im Getting So Upset Because My Sensei Doesnt Belive Im Realy Trying And I Got No Confidence Atal From Him. I Havnt Been Taught How To Breakfall Etc And I Just Turn Up In Class And Try To Copy Others. Its Realy Degrading Because I Just Dont Want To Quit But I Now I Cant Do This. I Always End Up Hurting My Neck

Marc Abrams
07-27-2011, 04:42 PM
I Need Some Advice Becasue Im Getting Realy Upset. I Have Been Training In Aikido For A Year Now And Im Due To Take My Yellow Belt Test Soon. I Just Cant Do The Backwards Roll Which I Need To Do For The Test. Im Getting So Upset Because My Sensei Doesnt Belive Im Realy Trying And I Got No Confidence Atal From Him. I Havnt Been Taught How To Breakfall Etc And I Just Turn Up In Class And Try To Copy Others. Its Realy Degrading Because I Just Dont Want To Quit But I Now I Cant Do This. I Always End Up Hurting My Neck

Andrew:

Stand in hamni holding onto a round pillow or ball (about the width of your body). Step back with the forward foot placing the top of the foot flat on the ground diagonally toward your standing leg. Lower youself down so that the back foot is flat on the ground (knee to foot). Hug the ball (arm on the back leg side down with palm up around the ball. Arm on front leg side on top of the ball with palm facing down going out, around and down the ball) and simply sit back down gently.

Find a fellow senior student that you like to work with and ask that person to personally work with you before and after class.

Good luck!

Marc Abrams

crbateman
07-27-2011, 04:45 PM
I Got No ConfidenceI suspect this is your biggest obstacle. You can do it. Visualize yourself doing it. It will happen.

I Always End Up Hurting My NeckLeave your neck out of the way. The roll should be over your shoulder...

andrew walters
07-27-2011, 04:52 PM
I just cant do it. Thanx guys, but im afraid im gonna break my neck or something

andrew walters
07-27-2011, 05:06 PM
I feel like crying I realy do because iv worked so hard in a class which I no they just hate me. I do enjoy practicing on my own but more and more lately the older experienced students just seem to hate me because im always needing help and asking questions. I dont no why I put myself thru this

Marc Abrams
07-27-2011, 05:09 PM
Andrew:

Most dojos that I have been to have been remarkably helpful to myself and others when we have been frustrated and stuck on things. Persevering and trusting the help of those around you usually does the trick. You will then find that what is now "I Can't" becomes "I did not know that I could until I started doing so."

Hang in there.

Marc Abrams

andrew walters
07-27-2011, 05:13 PM
Marc seriously you should see them. I went to ninjusitu a few times and the atmosphere was completly different. Since iv been ther I think theres been 4 new ppl and they all quit its unbelievable when I cant do a technique the sensei makes me feel so small he says sarcastic remarks all the time

phitruong
07-27-2011, 05:14 PM
I just cant do it. Thanx guys, but im afraid im gonna break my neck or something

when you already convinced yourself that you can't then you can't. you know that lots of folks done this and have not break their neck, so why would it be you? then again, maybe it will be you :) have you try starting from sitting flat on the floor position first and get comfortable rolling backward from there first? didn't you roll around the floor when you were a kid?

have you thought of fear makes you tense, tense gets you hurt. let go of your fear. watch this guy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwVaieOKz8E it's like a game to play. play it. and have fun. or try this out for fun. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RreOg4rEr3o

you also know that part of martial arts training is about facing your fear, right? ok, repeat after me whenever you do backward roll. "fear is the mind killer. i shall not fear." :)

sakumeikan
07-27-2011, 05:17 PM
I just cant do it. Thanx guys, but im afraid im gonna break my neck or something

Dear Andrew,
Your confidence level is not exactly positive.You are reinforcing the negative.Rather than keep say I cant do this , why not add the word , NOW to your original statement? Here are a few tips.
1.Keep you chin tucked in -protects the head/neck.
2. Keep feet high in air-protects spine.Think of a ball /round object.
3.Do not hold breath when landing.
4.Focus your attention to the FRONT even if falling BACKWARDS.
5.DO NOT PUT YOUR HANDS DOWN BEHIND YOU WHEN FALLING.PREVENTS BROKEN COLLAR BONE/INJURY TO ARM.
6 LAST BUT NOT LEAST -LIGHTEN UP,YOU CAN DO IT >
Cheers, Joe

andrew walters
07-27-2011, 05:28 PM
Thanx for the help guys I started aikido to do something positive has I battled depression im still there but aikido is helping me a great deal I hope ii can do this its just this awkward roll is killing me its hard to be positive when you get no help

rob_liberti
07-27-2011, 06:08 PM
Marc's advice was really good.

I like to teach people to just rock like a rocking chair, until they can touch their foot to the ground behind them as they continue rocking. Then, it is no big deal to flip all the way over from that point.

If you don't like the people in your dojo, I suggest you be polite, bide your time, work really hard, pass them out in rank, and then teach them out to be nice to their juniors by the example you set. :)

Rob

crbateman
07-27-2011, 08:09 PM
aikido is helping me a great deal
Andrew, this is another telling statement. Perhaps you would benefit by making this your focus, rather than dragging yourself down because of the difficulty you're having with any single technique. Everybody hits a snag once in a while. You just have to relax, laugh in the face of your frustration, and move past it.

robin_jet_alt
07-27-2011, 08:13 PM
I'm seeing two problems here.

1. You are having trouble with backwards rolls.

2. You are having trouble in your interactions with the people at your dojo.

With regard to the rolls, I found the rocking exercise really helpful. When I first started, I had trouble rolling over my left shoulder. My legs would get all tangled, and I would twist my neck at funny angles. In the end it took about 45 minutes to fix. I just sat on the floor and rocked back on my left shoulder over and over again. I gradually increased the amount I rocked back until I was touching my foot against the floor and the rock back ended up as a forward roll. Eventually I could just continue the movement into a full backward roll. If you are struggling with your backwards rolls, then I imagine you will struggle with your forward rolls as well, and this type of practice is also good for learning them.

With regard to the people in your dojo, if they really are sarcastic and unhelpful, then I suggest you leave. If the people doing ninjitsu are more helpful, then train with them. There is nothing wrong with ninjitsu. If on the other hand you are projecting your insecurities onto the people at your dojo, then training elsewhere probably won't help in the long run. Only you can decide which it is.

hughrbeyer
07-27-2011, 10:11 PM
Don't assume you know what your sempai or sensei are thinking. Remember they were all beginners once, and some of them even remember what it was like. I was astounded when my own sensei, whose aikido is very soft, told us he used to break his fingers on the mat from being too stiff. And I've seen dozens of people show up on the mat stiff, awkward, hopelessly clumsy. And six months later, they've learned how to move.

When you're feeling intimidated, practice looking at the other students and seeing the beginner they once were. Then get out there and try it again.

Eric in Denver
07-27-2011, 11:15 PM
I like to teach people to just rock like a rocking chair, until they can touch their foot to the ground behind them as they continue rocking. Then, it is no big deal to flip all the way over from that point.

Rob

I had the same problem with back rolls, for the first six months I couldn't do them because I kept having these images of my neck snapping. I started doing the exercise above at home by myself and it worked for me. Just was a matter of feeling out the balance of the back roll, and in a couple of weeks, I could do it.

Although, now that I think about it, there was another incident that helped me -- my first ukemi for koshinage. I landed right on my head! My neck was sore for a week -- but, it didn't break.;)

lbb
07-28-2011, 07:57 AM
If you solve the problem of being able to do a backward roll, what will you do then?

hughrbeyer
07-28-2011, 08:36 AM
Pass his test, I believe.

lbb
07-28-2011, 08:53 AM
Pass his test, I believe.

What you might do is one thing, but I'd like to hear the original poster's thoughts on that.

andrew walters
07-28-2011, 09:15 AM
Hi mary and thank you everyone for your support. Im ready for the test iv been ready for a while but its just the backward roll which is letting me down if I can do this my sensei have said that I will fly the exam a lot of it is due to my confidence and I just dont believe in myself anymore.

hughrbeyer
07-28-2011, 09:24 AM
Read the OP, Mary.

genin
07-28-2011, 09:25 AM
There's a gymnastics move where you do a back roll, straight back, and press it right up into a handstand. Unlike traditional back rolls, you don't roll off one shoulder or the other. You go straight back. Now this will injure your neck if you don't use your hands in conjunction with the move. Simply place your hands back behind your head with your palms open as you hit the floor. As soon as they touch the ground, push those hands down as hard as you can and shoot your legs to the sky. All your momentum from the roll will be transfered upward into your legs and it will make it easier for you to extend your arms into the handstand so you don't have to press that as hard. A partner can help you as well and stand there and grab your feet as you shoot them upward to help you up or help you hold the handstand.

The reason I suggest this move is that it gets your body accustomed to going end over end and rolling backwards. I know that the other backrolls go more at an angle diagonally across the back which people sometimes have a problem getting the feel for. The roll ends up looking more like a sideways roll than a back roll.

Stuart Turner
07-28-2011, 05:10 PM
For what it's worth, here's how I learned this particular ukemi...

Kneel down onto your left knee, so that you're sitting on your left foot and your right foot is flat on the floor. In a controlled manner, "throw" your right foot over your right shoulder - your intention is to touch the floor behind your right shoulder with your foot, then reverse the movement and return to the original kneeling position. This will look and feel pretty clumsy the first few times. You aren't doing ukemi, just putting your foot over your shoulder and bringing it back.

Avoid rolling on your neck - your head should be off the floor all the time - and keep the movement controlled. Once you're comfortable with flinging your foot over your shoulder, the next step is to follow it: your foot goes to touch the floor behind you and your body follows it over, rolling up naturally into either seiza or keiza depending on how flexible your toes are. This will also look and feel very clumsy to begin with.

Once you have that down, move to standing. From a standing position, bend your left leg and descend via a squat to the floor, then repeat the foot over the shoulder business. When you're happy with that, get someone you trust to give you a gentle push on the chest, and use the force of that push to take you into the roll.

Obviously repeat all this on the other side as well.

It's an awkward movement, and it takes practice - I'm still a long way from perfecting it. However, taking it in bite-sized chunks really helped me to get to grips with the fundamentals; it may help you as well. Best of luck, both with the rolling and the grading.

lbb
07-29-2011, 08:49 AM
Read the OP, Mary.

I did read it, and a lot more besides. That's why I asked the question. But suit yourself.

SmilingNage
07-29-2011, 10:16 AM
Barring any physical limitations that prevent you from rolling backwards, you shouldn't test until you can meet all requirements for that kyu level. Testing is about celebrating the knowledge you have worked for, not hoping something materializes during the test that you haven't been able to do.

Sounds like you also dont like the sensation of rolling over your neck, good, cause its your body telling to adjust the path you back roll with or you arent tucking your chin enough. Have some one watch how you back roll, they should be able to spot any drift of the rolling line that transverses from hip to opposite shoulder. Also they will spot if chin isn't tucked in enough.

Good Luck.

Krystal Locke
07-29-2011, 12:52 PM
Hi mary and thank you everyone for your support. Im ready for the test iv been ready for a while but its just the backward roll which is letting me down if I can do this my sensei have said that I will fly the exam a lot of it is due to my confidence and I just dont believe in myself anymore.

When you get the roll right and pass the test, you will be the next rank up, and you will have even harder challenges.

That might seem like it would suck, but you will also have the tools to face those challenges, because you will have faced and sucessfully met this challenge.

Forget about what you think other people think about you. Show up and train, stay after class and practice the parts that are hard for you. Give someone a little help with something you are good at and they are not, then take their help with your back rolls. Talk honestly with your sensei about your back rolls.

Learn that honest self-evaluation includes learning to recognise and accept your good points as much as you see your bad points. Work from your strengths on your weaknesses. If your front roll is good, do a front roll without coming up and as soon as your legs come over, hit the rewind button and do the exact same movement in reverse.

andrew walters
07-29-2011, 02:13 PM
Thank you everyone for all your help. I have improved a little but I now instead on landing on my hip I land on my knee. I think its just my confidence stopping me

hughrbeyer
07-29-2011, 03:23 PM
You are aware you don't have to double-click the "post" button, right? One click is enough.

LinTal
07-29-2011, 06:35 PM
Wonderful, congratulations! It's all about the little steps, one day you'll look up and see where they've all taken you. :)

Shadowfax
07-29-2011, 09:16 PM
Good for you Andrew. I had a beast of a time learning backward rolls too. In fact I still get a bit of a sinking feeling when we have to practice them in warmups remembering how much pain I went through learning them. Just keep at it. There are lots of great ukemi videos on Utube that can help. I think for me one of the big keys was realizing that a back roll is just a forward roll in reverse. ;)

ronin67
08-03-2011, 02:38 PM
Marc seriously you should see them. I went to ninjusitu a few times and the atmosphere was completly different. Since iv been ther I think theres been 4 new ppl and they all quit its unbelievable when I cant do a technique the sensei makes me feel so small he says sarcastic remarks all the time

What style of Aikido?

May God bless.

Ed

inframan
08-03-2011, 03:45 PM
Do foward roll then fall right back down into your back roll, its essential the same movement with the same contact points on the mat but in reverse.

Steve Pilling
08-06-2011, 09:35 AM
I have the same issue but am just persevering and gradually it is getting better. The first time you roll back onto your neck it is quite scary and you really feel like it will snap.

The things I have noticed that help like the other say is to start from the kame and go diagonal hip to shoulder (imagine a line drawn there and you have to touch the line on the mat) . It is only when you roll directly backwards onto the spine that the head can get in the way.

The head should be tucked side ways in the same direction as the leg that goes down first.

Also the thing about getting the foot down as soon as you can after the roll helps and also practicing backwards and forwards.

Just keep trying - you will get it -even if you dont think it is improving your body is learning and relaxing.

Steve Pilling
08-06-2011, 10:10 AM
ps easy to say but : donīt worry about comparing yourself to the others-at our dojo we are just happy when people come and practice :)