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graham christian
07-21-2011, 07:21 PM
A present from me for those interested. You may like it or not and you may have a good discussion about it or not. Promise I won't say a word.

Scouts honour!

http://youtu.be/StBJkGgNxNU

Regards.G.

DH
07-21-2011, 07:59 PM
Of equal worth (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3viOy-bQSyU)

stan baker
07-21-2011, 08:46 PM
amazing

gregstec
07-21-2011, 09:29 PM
A present from me for those interested. You may like it or not and you may have a good discussion about it or not. Promise I won't say a word.

Scouts honour!

http://youtu.be/StBJkGgNxNU

Regards.G.

Kind of reminded me of a political speech - a lot of noise with half truths and really nothing of definitive substance being said :)

Greg

hughrbeyer
07-21-2011, 09:41 PM
So, I'll ask the stupid questions.

Who were those guys? What was their background? Dan, I'd value your opinion of what they were saying. I didn't hear anything I thought was wrong as such. What am I missing?

As for your video, Dan, I think this is pretty much irrefutable proof that Aikido is stronger even than in the Founder's day. You certainly never saw O-Sensei doing anything like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3viOy-bQSyU&feature=player_detailpage#t=51s).

DH
07-21-2011, 10:08 PM
Hi Hugh
Felt one, watched the other. They are of equal worth to me. Beyond that I have nothing to say.

hughrbeyer
07-21-2011, 10:30 PM
I've certainly no interest in pushing you to criticize folks in an open forum. I was more interested in how they talked about aiki.

Who are they anyway? The YouTube doesn't say.

DH
07-21-2011, 10:55 PM
I've certainly no interest in pushing you to criticize folks in an open forum. I was more interested in how they talked about aiki.

Who are they anyway? The YouTube doesn't say.
The first guy is Kondo; Menkyo Kaiden of the mainline of Daito ryu and his brother. "How they talked about aiki?" ...is the reason I googled "no touch aiki in aikido" and grabbed the first thing I got for comparison. I don't know who he is and I don't think it matters much. Their work is of equal value.
Cheers
Dan

David Orange
07-22-2011, 12:11 AM
The first guy is Kondo; Menkyo Kaiden of the mainline of Daito ryu and his brother. "How they talked about aiki?" ...is the reason I googled "no touch aiki in aikido" and grabbed the first thing I got for comparison. I don't know who he is and I don't think it matters much. Their work is of equal value.
Cheers
Dan

Dan,

Of course, you know I've never met either of them but I didn't get that they were talking about no-touch aiki.

Cheers.

David

Budd
07-22-2011, 12:46 AM
This thread made me giggle. There, I said it. It's late and I should be in bed.

Carsten Möllering
07-22-2011, 03:17 AM
... grabbed the first thing I got for comparison. I don't know who he is ...Dan
Well my teacher practiced with Watanabe sensei.
It is quite amazing. He can show how it works and if you know how it is done, it seems very simple ...
If not, it seems to be cheating.

sakumeikan
07-22-2011, 05:45 AM
Hi,
I watchedGrahams vid. link on You tube.In case anybody missed this, the other parts of the interviews with these men are also on You tube. Cheers, Joe

Diana Frese
07-22-2011, 06:21 PM
Hi Carsten,
Thanks for your post about Watanabe Sensei. Thanks, Graham, I am having trouble with my dial up computer but will try again later, also with the other videos people posted.

I took Watanabe Sensei's regular class I think it was Saturdays, and also the Sunday class. To practice Sunday it cost a little extra but for those of us who attended, it was well worth it.
This was many years ago at Hombu Dojo. Several weeks ago I was able to catch another video which played in stops and starts, slowly, then the replay was normal speed. It looked like a further development of the regular style he had back in the mid seventies. I think it is a valuable part of Aikido, for those interested in that way of training, although many say it looks fake. It has certainly caused a lot of controversy on Aiki Web.

We didn't talk to him much in Japan, but a few times there was a translator available. I read that his German students have published a book of photographs and sayings of his, in three languages. Do you know how any of us over here can get a copy?
My friends and I are very interested, also that he is a doctor of osteopathy. The notice on Aikido Journal says that his ideas of Aikido are very broad and far reaching in scope.

Thanks again, and we hope you might have information on the book.
Sincerely, Diana

stan baker
07-22-2011, 07:29 PM
Regarding Watanabe sensei,
much a do about nothing, would sum it up.
people are fooled so easily

stan

rob_liberti
07-22-2011, 10:52 PM
I've gone beyond that myself. Now, I just send the uke out on the mat, and I throw him with my mind from my house.

Lorel Latorilla
07-23-2011, 02:53 AM
Everytime I look at Kondo, I see a tall, unbalanced, stiff guy doing impractical jujutsu.

No offense to those who might be studying with Kondo-san.

gregstec
07-23-2011, 08:48 AM
I've gone beyond that myself. Now, I just send the uke out on the mat, and I throw him with my mind from my house.

I do you one better - I just did a kokyu Nage on you from the internet - post back when you get up off the floor :D

Greg

Marc Abrams
07-23-2011, 11:16 AM
I do you one better - I just did a kokyu Nage on you from the internet - post back when you get up off the floor :D

Greg

Damn! Greg, you missed him and knocked my mojito over :eek: !

Marc

ps- thankfully, my mint patch is doing well this summer, plenty of fresh mint for the next round.....

gregstec
07-23-2011, 12:27 PM
Damn! Greg, you missed him and knocked my mojito over :eek: !

Marc

ps- thankfully, my mint patch is doing well this summer, plenty of fresh mint for the next round.....

Oops - alcohol abuse, again :D

Mark Jakabcsin
07-23-2011, 10:35 PM
Of equal worth. I like it and will save it for future use.

DH
07-23-2011, 11:26 PM
Of equal worth. I like it and will save it for future use.
Hi Mark
It's only useful if you know what I meant. Which few apparently did.;)

Carsten Möllering
07-24-2011, 06:54 AM
I took Watanabe Sensei's regular class I think it was Saturdays, ...Yes if I remember right, it was on Saturday that my teacher took Watanabe senseis class.
This caused him a decision when another teacher of hombu invited him to his private class which was also held on saturdays in the dojo of this teacher. This is why I remember the day ...

This was many years ago at Hombu Dojo. My teacher returned from Japan 1995 I think.

I read that his German students have published a book of photographs and sayings of his, in three languages. Do you know how any of us over here can get a copy? My teacher is not a "student" of Watanabe sensei. But I will ask him. And I know one of the "real" students of sensei who invite him to Germany evey year and will also ask him.
But: I never heard of this book or project. (And I am better in reading about than in performing aikido. ... ;) ) I will watch out.

rob_liberti
07-24-2011, 04:50 PM
The word aiki....

The founder of aikido was using what the word aiki meant to people like him - people that could actually do DR aiki to some degree.

I am not hearing great tales of Kondo sensei's abilities, or of the current Doshu's abilities - so I don't care what their rank or position is. Honestly, I'm simply not very interested in their opinion on that subject.

We get into these cyber fights because we love our martial arts. We identify our hard work in what we have done with our own training.

In several ways, I was just like the folks who are ego attached to how right their ki society abilities are or the folks who feel how just-as-good their athleticism is. I understand why someone would get all bent out of shape hearing the folks who train IP/IS claiming that internal-training methodology leads to the real aiki and that the vast majority of the folks are far off track despite all of their hard effort.

When I first started really arguing with Mike Sigman I felt he was overstepping his bounds to judge the power of aikido from a Chinese perspective. But, I later apologized because he was right. I don't think we will ever be "besties" but regardless, the main point is that I understand how it feels to have people say what you are doing is not right on - or even close. It is a terrible blow to the ego and self esteem.

I laughed when I read a thread about how the IP/IS folks are trying to hijack the word "aiki". Isn't obvious that the proponents of IP/IS ALSO love our martial art(s) perspective too, because we have put in the same amount of time (okay, often much, much, more time and energy). Isn't it possible we just want the word BACK?

When I learned about IP/IS just a little I felt VERY betrayed. I love aiki so much.

I kind of feel like the word aiki was stolen from the people who were actually doing internals, and I really want the word to mean what it used to mean to the founder of the art I love so much.

And if not, then I would almost like to come up with a new word to distinguish what I do (internally based) from what is normally/typically displayed as aiki (externally based with various small aspects of some correct principles that more hide the fundamental failures like a crutch).

Also, there is a second issue. I hate the whole hero worship thing. So many people have this hero-worship thing going on. Deep down, they wan to be worshiped in the way that they worshiped their big teachers. Hearing that what you are doing and what your teacher was doing was wrong, really threatens the whole worship dreams. I know, I know, not -YOU-, but you know many people this applies to... If you want to be admired, please be admired for going out and really finding aiki and then giving it to other people while making people feel very uncomfortable about the whole mystique thing. (We are better than this!)

Rob

David Orange
07-24-2011, 09:56 PM
The word aiki....

The founder of aikido was using what the word aiki meant to people like him - people that could actually do DR aiki to some degree.

....In several ways, I was just like the folks who are ego attached to how right their ki society abilities are or the folks who feel how just-as-good their athleticism is. I understand why someone would get all bent out of shape hearing the folks who train IP/IS claiming that internal-training methodology leads to the real aiki and that the vast majority of the folks are far off track despite all of their hard effort.

That was my experience.

When I first started really arguing with Mike Sigman I felt he was overstepping his bounds to judge the power of aikido from a Chinese perspective. But, I later apologized because he was right. I don't think we will ever be "besties" but regardless, the main point is that I understand how it feels to have people say what you are doing is not right on - or even close. It is a terrible blow to the ego and self esteem.

That was my experience.

I laughed when I read a thread about how the IP/IS folks are trying to hijack the word "aiki". Isn't obvious that the proponents of IP/IS ALSO love our martial art(s) perspective too, because we have put in the same amount of time (okay, often much, much, more time and energy). Isn't it possible we just want the word BACK?

I think that's it. And tai chi wants its art back from people who tell you "Tai chi used to be a martial art...."

When I learned about IP/IS just a little I felt VERY betrayed. I love aiki so much.

That was my experience.

I kind of feel like the word aiki was stolen from the people who were actually doing internals, and I really want the word to mean what it used to mean to the founder of the art I love so much.

And to see it hijacked by people who can't even do the outer appearance well, much less the inner essence...

Also, there is a second issue. I hate the whole hero worship thing. So many people have this hero-worship thing going on. Deep down, they wan to be worshiped in the way that they worshiped their big teachers. Hearing that what you are doing and what your teacher was doing was wrong, really threatens the whole worship dreams. I know, I know, not -YOU-, but you know many people this applies to... If you want to be admired, please be admired for going out and really finding aiki and then giving it to other people while making people feel very uncomfortable about the whole mystique thing. (We are better than this!)

I think you're overstepping your bounds here. I see nothing wrong with the hero worship thing. It's the American dream, isn't it? "All I want is a little cult of my own..."
:)

David

Benjamin Mehner
07-24-2011, 11:20 PM
The word aiki....

The founder of aikido was using what the word aiki meant to people like him - people that could actually do DR aiki to some degree.



Pardon me, I'm a beginner that really knows next to nothing looking for clarification. Didn't O' Sensei say that he meant something different when he said "aiki"? I thought that his aiki was similar, but different from the aiki concept in "internal arts" like what we call aikijutsu or the Korean hapkido.

rob_liberti
07-25-2011, 01:20 PM
Search for DR aiki, or Harden, or Sigman, or Center, or Hara, etc.. you will find it here. I read a lot of good points in a recent internals v athleticism thread.

dps
07-25-2011, 01:57 PM
Pardon me, I'm a beginner that really knows next to nothing looking for clarification. Didn't O' Sensei say that he meant something different when he said "aiki"? I thought that his aiki was similar, but different from the aiki concept in "internal arts" like what we call aikijutsu or the Korean hapkido.

Interesting article on chi (ki) and relates to aiki as well.

http://ejmas.com/jalt/jaltart_kennedy_0201.htm

Epilogue

I am not in a position to give the definitive answer as to which framework is the "true" one for chi, and the only conclusion I will put forward is that:

Chi as life force is the most widespread and traditional explanation.
Chi as biomechanics is the most provable explanation from a scientific perspective.
And, regrettably, ignorance is the most common use of the term.

So, whenever considering the word, one is reminded of Humpty Dumpty’s comment in Through the Looking Glass: "When I use a word it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less."

"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."

"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master -- that’s all."




dps

Lee Salzman
07-25-2011, 02:41 PM
Interesting article on chi (ki) and relates to aiki as well.

http://ejmas.com/jalt/jaltart_kennedy_0201.htm

Epilogue

I am not in a position to give the definitive answer as to which framework is the "true" one for chi, and the only conclusion I will put forward is that:

Chi as life force is the most widespread and traditional explanation.
Chi as biomechanics is the most provable explanation from a scientific perspective.
And, regrettably, ignorance is the most common use of the term.

So, whenever considering the word, one is reminded of Humpty Dumpty’s comment in Through the Looking Glass: "When I use a word it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less."

"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."

"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master -- that’s all."

dps

That article addresses ki, but does nothing to answer what is aiki, which is not just ki. So what is aiki?

Andrew Prochnow
07-26-2011, 10:09 PM
Aiki is the result of one training their own body to be in unision with itself. Structure gives the Aiki a clear pathway to follow. Relaxation enables Aiki to travel through that structure. Intent is what fuels the Aiki in the body. When one comes into contact with one who has trained their body. Aiki is what is seen when the two meet.


Andrew Prochnow

Carsten Möllering
07-27-2011, 02:22 AM
... Watanabe Sensei ...
I read that his German students have published a book of photographs and sayings of his, in three languages. Do you know how any of us over here can get a copy?
I sent you PM. :)

Lorel Latorilla
07-27-2011, 09:06 AM
Aiki is the result of one training their own body to be in unision with itself. Structure gives the Aiki a clear pathway to follow. Relaxation enables Aiki to travel through that structure. Intent is what fuels the Aiki in the body. When one comes into contact with one who has trained their body. Aiki is what is seen when the two meet.

Andrew Prochnow

Hey,

I really like what you wrote here only except I would replace Aiki with Ki in all places except in the last sentence.

Jon Haas
07-27-2011, 12:15 PM
Hey,

I really like what you wrote here only except I would replace Aiki with Ki in all places except in the last sentence.

Lorel,

Considering the source, I'd leave what Andy said exactly as he said it. :)

Jon

gregstec
07-27-2011, 12:46 PM
Lorel,

Considering the source, I'd leave what Andy said exactly as he said it. :)

Jon

To Jon and Lorel,

I can see where Lorel is coming from in his statement, and I have a good idea where Andy is coming from as well :) IMO, Andy's statement can stand on its own as is - however, I think the use of the word ki could be used as in the the following sentences because ki is an integral component required for developing aiki.

"Aiki is the result of one training their own body to be in unision with itself. Structure gives the ki/Aiki a clear pathway to follow. Relaxation enables ki/Aiki to travel through that structure. Intent is what fuels the ki/Aiki in the body. When one comes into contact with one who has trained their body. Aiki is what is seen when the two meet."

Aiki is definitely the word to use in the first and last sentences, however, ki could be substituted for aiki in the second, third, and fourth sentences - all depends on the context of the point you are trying to get across. IMO, with Andy's message, I think Aiki is the word for all. :)

Greg

Lorel Latorilla
07-27-2011, 11:33 PM
To Jon and Lorel,

I can see where Lorel is coming from in his statement, and I have a good idea where Andy is coming from as well :) IMO, Andy's statement can stand on its own as is - however, I think the use of the word ki could be used as in the the following sentences because ki is an integral component required for developing aiki.

"Aiki is the result of one training their own body to be in unision with itself. Structure gives the ki/Aiki a clear pathway to follow. Relaxation enables ki/Aiki to travel through that structure. Intent is what fuels the ki/Aiki in the body. When one comes into contact with one who has trained their body. Aiki is what is seen when the two meet."

Aiki is definitely the word to use in the first and last sentences, however, ki could be substituted for aiki in the second, third, and fourth sentences - all depends on the context of the point you are trying to get across. IMO, with Andy's message, I think Aiki is the word for all. :)

Greg

This.

And I'm sure Andrew has more skills and can fight better than I can and knows what he is talking about (sometimes language can't be as precise though ;)), I just don't want to be confused on the terms as I learned it :).

DH
07-28-2011, 12:39 AM
This.
I'm sure Andrew has more skills and can fight better than I can and knows what he is talking about
Oh good God.
A giant
a soft giant
a tuned soft giant
Brought up in jujutsu and aiki
A soldier
An MMA guy
Hell I don't like fighting him!!

(sometimes language can't be as precise though ;)), I just don't want to be confused on the terms as I learned it :).
All I'm gonna say is some people think of power or ki as all-out or all-in.
Power is not best worked that way. There is a way to have both inside the body at all times, to balance aiki, (in- yo), in yourself. Aiki in you.

When they contact you:
Their ki meets your in yo ho, your aiki and then it is kuzushi on contact and there is instantaneous absorption, redirection, leading away and power out all at once. This is done though spiral energy.
It works in every fighting platform, works in every weapons form seamlessly and without change. It is a superior state for the body for martial arts.

Cheers
Dan

Lee Salzman
07-28-2011, 03:15 AM
All I'm gonna say is some people think of power or ki as all-out or all-in.
Power is not best worked that way. There is a way to have both inside the body at all times, to balance aiki, (in- yo), in yourself. Aiki in you.

When they contact you:
Their ki meets your in yo ho, your aiki and then it is kuzushi on contact and there is instantaneous absorption, redirection, leading away and power out all at once. This is done though spiral energy.
It works in every fighting platform, works in every weapons form seamlessly and without change. It is a superior state for the body for martial arts.

Cheers
Dan

So is ki, literally or figuratively, a platform or coathanger on which to hang aiki, or is ki just entirely a distraction from training aiki?

RonRagusa
07-28-2011, 06:35 AM
Aiki is the result of one training their own body to be in unision with itself.

Keep One Point

Structure gives the Aiki a clear pathway to follow.

Correct Posture

Relaxation enables Aiki to travel through that structure.

Progressive Relaxation

Intent is what fuels the Aiki in the body.

Positive Mind

Thanks Andrew. That was a wonderful description of the four principles that I was first taught when I began my Aikido study and continue to emphasize today in both my teaching and training.

Best,

Ron

Lorel Latorilla
07-28-2011, 07:19 AM
Oh good God.
A giant
a soft giant
a tuned soft giant
Brought up in jujutsu and aiki
A soldier
An MMA guy
Hell I don't like fighting him!!

All I'm gonna say is some people think of power or ki as all-out or all-in.
Power is not best worked that way. There is a way to have both inside the body at all times, to balance aiki, (in- yo), in yourself. Aiki in you.

When they contact you:
Their ki meets your in yo ho, your aiki and then it is kuzushi on contact and there is instantaneous absorption, redirection, leading away and power out all at once. This is done though spiral energy.
It works in every fighting platform, works in every weapons form seamlessly and without change. It is a superior state for the body for martial arts.

Cheers
Dan

Very interesting Dan, I'm gonna have to meet you to get a feel of what you're saying. I have been out of touch with a teacher for a long ass time now :crazy: .

And this guy is one of yours eh? LOL

DH
07-28-2011, 09:10 AM
Very interesting Dan, I'm gonna have to meet you to get a feel of what you're saying. I have been out of touch with a teacher for a long ass time now :crazy: .

And this guy is one of yours eh? LOL
Hi Lorel
Andy has trained with me for 18 years. Most people who visit are very impressed with his skill and knowledge.
I have been thinking of going to Canada, who knows
Dan

DH
07-28-2011, 09:38 AM
Hi Ron
To clear up a few things:
Andrew Prochnow wrote:

Aiki is the result of one training their own body to be in unision with itself.

You wrote: Keep One Point.
Yes and no. Its more complicated than that.
Quote:
Andrew Prochnow wrote:

Structure gives the Aiki a clear pathway to follow.
You wrote: Correct Posture
No. Structure is independant of posture. I routinely demonstrate a hype fluid body movement; including bending over backwards that retains all of the qualites of Toheis principles. Learning posture and to settle is a good beginners step, there's just more to it than that.

Quote:
Andrew Prochnow wrote:
Relaxation enables Aiki to travel through that structure.
You wrote: Progressive Relaxation
I won't comment other than to say I have seen you move, until I feel you I will refrain from comparing what we do to your stuff. I will say that actively using the arms as extensions of hara in a clean way is not something I have seen often, and going after the hips usually reveals hips as tight as shoulders, making it relatively easy to throw people.

Quote:
Andrew Prochnow wrote:
Intent is what fuels the Aiki in the body.
You wrote: Positive Mind
Well, I haven't seen anyone from Ki society use "positive mind" actively and fluidly like we use intent but I remain open. Could be the players lack and not the rule.

Thanks Andrew. That was a wonderful description of the four principles that I was first taught when I began my Aikido study and continue to emphasize today in both my teaching and training.
Best,
Ron

Now isn't that interesting? I think that is a very good start. Have you ever wondered if there is more?
Cheers
Dan

Lorel Latorilla
07-28-2011, 09:59 AM
Hi Lorel
Andy has trained with me for 18 years. Most people who visit are very impressed with his skill and knowledge.
I have been thinking of going to Canada, who knows
Dan

When I go back to Toronto, I will probably take a train down to Boston. Haven't hit up Stateside in a minute.

DH
07-28-2011, 10:28 AM
I should have included noodle arms and empty, evasive hips as well as stiff arms and hips. Its all the same to me...failure in understanding.
Dan

RonRagusa
07-28-2011, 11:49 AM
Hi Ron
To clear up a few things:

You wrote: Keep One Point.
Yes and no. Its more complicated than that.

You wrote: Correct Posture
No. Structure is independant of posture. I routinely demonstrate a hype fluid body movement; including bending over backwards that retains all of the qualites of Toheis principles. Learning posture and to settle is a good beginners step, there's just more to it than that.

You wrote: Progressive Relaxation
I won't comment other than to say I have seen you move, until I feel you I will refrain from comparing what we do to your stuff. I will say that actively using the arms as extensions of hara in a clean way is not something I have seen often, and going after the hips usually reveals hips as tight as shoulders, making it relatively easy to throw people.

Quote:

You wrote: Positive Mind
Well, I haven't seen anyone from Ki society use "positive mind" actively and fluidly like we use intent but I remain open. Could be the players lack and not the rule.

Now isn't that interesting? I think that is a very good start. Have you ever wondered if there is more?
Cheers
Dan

Hi Dan -

Reading Andrew's post evoked in me the comparisons with the four principles I posted in my reply. The four principles are distillations of ideas that are more complex than the few words used to relate them. They're intended to be easily internalized metaphors for the feelings we develop during training. Andrew's concise descriptions seemed to coincide nicely with how I have come to view the principles.

Regarding structure, Maruyama sensei always reminded us that correct posture is independent of the body's configuration and that we should train to remain stable and balanced no matter how we were positioned. I call correct posture the coordination of external and internal postures to create a stable structure no matter the positioning.

I can't speak for Ki Society folks. While my Aikido roots go back to Tohei thru Maruyama, I've been an independent practitioner since 2001.

More? There's always more.

Best,

Ron

Gary David
07-28-2011, 01:15 PM
Hi Dan -

Reading Andrew's post evoked in me the comparisons with the four principles I posted in my reply. The four principles are distillations of ideas that are more complex than the few words used to relate them. They're intended to be easily internalized metaphors for the feelings we develop during training. Andrew's concise descriptions seemed to coincide nicely with how I have come to view the principles.



Ron
The issue for me has never been that the four principles were not descriptions of complex and very useful ideas, rather that the few words to relate them to the general population didn't provide much. The exercises used to connect these ideas to how the body mind worked and worked together were not very helpful either. I remember having graded individuals working us with exercises that I am only now seeing had value, only have value when trained in ways that include having all the blue prints, drawings, reference notes, change drawings, comments, peer reviews, interaction with folks that actually have the skills....all of it. What we got was a picture of the airplane and maybe a ride in it.

My roots go back to Tohei Sensei through my first instructor Harry Ishisaka. Tohei Sensei was in our dojo several times a year during the '70s. We had plenty of the big time guys from Hawaii in the area several times a year. We had folks who spent plenty of individual time with Tohei Sensei when he was here on the west coast........ out of this came none of the solo training details that are starting to come to the forefront now. And the reality being what it is, few of us ever had the drive, willingness or the perceptive skills to steal anything from anyone else...or even thought we could or should. Just waza waza waza..... and I have the beat up body to show for it.....

Now is a fun time....more are needed to get involved with the search.....

Just go straight......
Gary
(facilitator, instigator, and useful idiot).

DH
07-28-2011, 01:30 PM
Thanks Gary
It's hard to talk about these things. I applaud the model, but when I keep meeting the players...well...they're very nice people. ;)

There's nothing to say until we meet, then...one by one....
Hey..it's all good,
We're exploring Aiki...together...finally. yeah! I think Ueshiba would be jumping up and down coming to train and laughing with us!
Dan

RonRagusa
07-28-2011, 05:38 PM
Ron
The issue for me has never been that the four principles were not descriptions of complex and very useful ideas, rather that the few words to relate them to the general population didn't provide much. The exercises used to connect these ideas to how the body mind worked and worked together were not very helpful either. I remember having graded individuals working us with exercises that I am only now seeing had value, only have value when trained in ways that include having all the blue prints, drawings, reference notes, change drawings, comments, peer reviews, interaction with folks that actually have the skills....all of it. What we got was a picture of the airplane and maybe a ride in it.

Hi Gary -

I was fortunate when I started training in that Sensei always tied the theory and ideas back to physically feeling what was going on inside as we trained. So when he would tell me to keep one point and then test me by pushing on me he would always have me examine how I felt. Increasing pressure and varying the nature of the applied stress allowed me to become familiar with the different ways I could respond to applied force. When I started to realize the nature of correct feeling as it related to how I felt, I began to see that the phrase was an invocation to call forth the feeling. It's the model I continue to use today in teaching and training.

I think that "Ki testing" is an unfortunate phrase to use in describing the internal work we do. "Exercising Ki", of which Ki testing is only a part, is more accurate in my opinion.

Best,

Ron

rob_liberti
07-29-2011, 05:26 AM
I've gone beyond that myself. Now, I just send the uke out on the mat, and I throw him with my mind from my house.

Check it out, and be jealous of my powers...
http://youtu.be/7nbwxQWQyX4

(The poor uke doesn't even know it's me doing that to him. He thinks he is just fooling around.)

gregstec
07-29-2011, 10:39 AM
Check it out, and be jealous of my powers...
http://youtu.be/7nbwxQWQyX4

(The poor uke doesn't even know it's me doing that to him. He thinks he is just fooling around.)

That guy needs to find some friends - oh, maybe he does have friends and they are all called Harvey :D

Greg

DH
07-29-2011, 10:56 AM
More stuff (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Z0_n7tGnK0) of equal worth.