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Shuken
06-09-2002, 06:57 AM
G'day,

I need some help with chosing between Judo and Aikido.
I like the flowing techniques oh Aikido but also the spectacular fliping throws of Judo. Does Aikido have flipping techniques like Judo?
Also would it hinder my progress in Akido if i was to study both of the arts?

I would primarily like to study Aikido but i would love to do both.

Thanks :ai: :ki: :do:

guest1234
06-09-2002, 07:36 AM
If you are checking out dojos, next time you are at an Aikido dojo ask about koshinage:) , this may be what you are wanting to see... my favorite technique to be uke for is an over-the-shoulder throw, which some dojos I've been to do, and other say it is a Judo technique and don't do it, so who knows... but it is a very fun fall.

I know students who have done both Judo and Aikido without problem, and some who had trouble with the differences (keeping Judo on the Judo mat, Aikido on the Aikido mat....) How well it would work depends on the two dojos and you.

If you haven't done either, it would be easier to start one, then add the second once you feel comfortable with the first. Good luck!

IrimiTom
06-09-2002, 07:57 AM
I think it depends on whether you enjoy competition or not. While Aikido was intended to be a non competitive art, and most styles still are non competitive, I believe there is a lot of "olympic" Judo out there, which I think takes away some of the martial experience.
I did Judo for some years when I was a kid. We had two senseis, one that just taught techniques, etc, and other who prepared kids for competitions. I feel that when this second sensei "took over", I stopped learning and started getting injured and losing interest very quickly.

Oh, it also depends on whether you like ground work or not. If you do, Judo can be very fun that way :)

Tim Griffiths
06-09-2002, 09:21 AM
Originally posted by ca
... my favorite technique to be uke for is an over-the-shoulder throw, which some dojos I've been to do, and other say it is a Judo technique and don't do it, so who knows... but it is a very fun fall.


To which I say:

*Phffffffffuttt*

Do the same people not strike with a fist as that's a 'karate technique'? Or avoid wrist locks as they're 'jujitsu techniques'?

If you start defining aikido in terms of techniques you're very quickly going to have trouble defining it at all...

Tim

chadsieger
06-09-2002, 10:10 AM
I would have you choose based upon the character of the teachers. If a sensei can be both powerful yet humble, I believe that you stand the best chance of progressing. Find questions to test this.
Otherwise, both Aikido and Judo have "throws," if that's what you are looking for.
Good Luck

paw
06-09-2002, 11:31 AM
If possible, train for a month at one club, then for a month at the other, then decide.

Regards,

Paul

Adam_Aikidoka
06-09-2002, 02:33 PM
I think before you choose between them, you have to examine your reasons for wanting to train. You say that you like the spectacular techniques of judo. Is learning to be able to perform these spectacular techniques the only reason for you wishing to train? Did Bruce Lee once say that the simplest things are the most effective?
Examine your reasons for wishing to train, and then try each one out. My Sensei experimented in a multitude of martial arts before entering Aikido; perhaps that is the best way to decide.

Adam

akiy
06-09-2002, 09:29 PM
I'd say the same thing about people wondering about which aikido dojo to join.

Visit all of the dojo in your area within a reasonable driving distance and observe a few classes at each of them. Watch how the teacher interacts with his/her students. Watch how the students interact with their teacher. Watch how the students interact with each other. Don't be afraid to ask questions. Ask about the school's history and affiliation. Ask about the teacher's aikido/judo history. Ask about the teacher's philosophy in doing aikido/judo. See if any of their answers feels "different" than what you see being practiced and taught.

Basically, a good yardstick to use is to think if the dojo itself is some place you want to be practicing for at least the next five years, probably at least two to three times a week.

Hope that helps,

-- Jun

JJF
06-10-2002, 04:07 AM
Perhaps you should concidere as well, that (most) Judo is about competition and (most) Aikido is without the competitive element. If you really want to test your strength and obtain trophies for the mantelpiece, then Judo would probably be the way to go. If you just want to learn a martial art and feel little compelled (or not at all) to competition, then Aikido might be right for you.

Another factor is self defence. I have never done Judo, but I have the impression that on a short time scale it is more efficient for self defence purposes.

Take these things into concidereation and go out there and 'get wet' as soon as possible.

Good luck on your big decision...

PeterR
06-10-2002, 04:27 AM
Do both - they compliment each other nicely.

During a yudansha seminar near Tokyo last summer a Kodokan Judo 6th Dan/Shodokan Aikido 7th Dan told me over beer that now you must do Judo. On his advice, supplemented by that of several others, I started doing just that. Finding even now, with only a few Judo sessions under my belt, that it is helping my Aikido randori.

At some point it will become clear which will be your main art. Then you can cut-back or drop the other.

Abasan
06-10-2002, 04:36 AM
Many fair comments already made but I would just like to add...

Having a taster of the art, say a month or two in this dojo or that, won't do justice to the art. I used to do tae kwon do for several years before circumstance made me leave the art. All this time I thought the art was fairly simplistic unlike the more elaborate karate. Only later did I realise, that upon reaching black belt would the student be exposed to the more advanced arts which is vastly different then the normal kicking and punching to be had earlier.

Anyway, its just a thought to keep in mind when choosing an art.

Bruce Baker
06-10-2002, 10:29 AM
I would like to advise you to do Aikido, as it is an art that encompasses many of the other arts such as karate, judo, jujitsu ... but if you haven't experienced the other three before doing Aikido, then you will not appreciate the how Aikido makes them even more effective.

If you are young, have time and money, dabble in whatever meets your fancy, crosstraining can be very, very difficult but rewarding in understanding how techniques cross over in different arts.

However, most people who try other martial arts, and get tired of punching and kicking do come over to Aikido while keeping their other arts in their back pocket with practice at home. At least in the majority of people who have reached the forty and over category that I talk to, at Seminars, and I have met in Aikido in the past five years. In fact, I have met some of my old pals from my Karate class days passing thru seminars or Aikido class the last couple of years ... funny how we piece the puzzle of martial arts together to find our own answers?

Try everything, but don't get hung up. Aikido is really fun after you have tried a few other things, and it becomes even more enlightening after you have been about.

Crosstraining, it does open your eyes to the big wide world.

Just remember that everyone is as kind as most Aikido teachers, but if you find one that is, remember to bring that kindness back to Aikido when you practice with us again.

Dougemac
06-12-2002, 03:53 AM
Plenty of options in Hobart. If I were you I would go to the brand new Uni dojo (see my homepage for pics from opening) (It's in between the footy oval and tennis courts down in Sandy Bay) on a Friday night around 6:30pm for Judo with Milos (sp?, he's been to the olympics a few times is a high ranking coach and I believe he is the olympic coach for NZ women) after which is one of many of Fuji Ryu's Aikido classes. Fuji Ryu also offers a training session in Clarence over on the eastern shore. Leoni (sp?) is great and offers what a believe is a Tomiki style Aikido down on Liverpool Street...just down from Elizabeth Mall. The Uni dojo also offers a form of jujitsu, karate, tae kwon do, viet vo do, capoera, (sp? on all these), etc., etc.

Good-on-yah-mate,

Dougemac

Sam
06-12-2002, 04:40 AM
Hi,

Somebody once described Aikido and Judo as different sides of the same coin. I think that this makes practise both Aikido and Judo possible as there are many common principals. I practise both Aikido and Judo and have found them to be mutually beneficial.
I would suggest that you start with the martial art you intend to be most dedicated to, as it seems to me that the way people move and interpret each technique depends on the art they first practised.
What you will see of each art really does depend on the individual dojo and style; some Aikido styles offer a large quantity of randori and spectacular throws while some Judo styles will have a strong martial element, contrary to popular expectations.

SeiserL
06-12-2002, 08:27 AM
IMHO, which martial art one studies is very much a matter of personal taste and reasoning. Watch as many classes as possible. Which one really peeks your interest? Find what fits for you.

If you can't decide, take classes in each. Give them a fair about of time.

Go to the library and read on different styles for free.

Many of us have studied different arts and have found the cross training to add to the over all impact of the martial arts. While each art is complete, no art is finished. Each have a different emphasis. Choose what works for you. No one can tell you that.

Good luck.

Until again,

Lynn

Misogi-no-Gyo
06-12-2002, 12:01 PM
Hi Lynn,

Having corresponded off the board, I hope that you don't mind my taking the liberty to publicly post the following request:

Statement
Given that all of your posts on (and off) the board, are always written in a balanced, clear, and quietly suggestive manner, I believe that your "frequent" use of IMHO to be redundant.

Request
Would you please, henceforth, continue to be yourself, but discontinue the use of this tired expression.

Rant
I find that the only place the it has some value is to soften the harsh tones of gruff individuals. Funny though - even after they start off with IMHO they then proceed with non-humble statements. Truthfully, these individuals would do better to be themselves - gruff. At least they would be coming from a place of honesty, rather then some foolish idea that they need others to think them humble, or worse, that others actually need them to be sound humble in order for them to be hear what gruff individuals are trying to say. I wonder what Takeda Sokaku would do with today's "PC-Types" and their incessant need to stifle those who have dominant personalities.

...Not that I would know anything about dominant, type-A personalities.

giriasis
06-12-2002, 10:47 PM
Shaun,

What does this have to do with the question. I've seen thread drift, but if you have a personal disagreement please take it to a private message.

I found what Lynn said was very relevant and hardly domineering or disrespectful. It was a fine suggestion.

PeterR
06-12-2002, 11:22 PM
Anne - read the post again. He wasn't calling Lynn any of those things. Just commenting on the excessive use of IMHO which he felt was not necessary for one so balanced as Lynn.

IMHO :) I tend to agree and in a not so subtle way Shaun is trying to moderate a few others besides Lynn.


Originally posted by giriasis
Shaun,

What does this have to do with the question. I've seen thread drift, but if you have a personal disagreement please take it to a private message.

I found what Lynn said was very relevant and hardly domineering or disrespectful. It was a fine suggestion.

guest1234
06-13-2002, 01:04 AM
I personally have no problem with 'IMHO', which is used by more than one person around here... probably because too often the more close-minded types (as soon as someone disagrees) jump all over the dissenter with howls of protest, ignoring the fact that it is the writer's opinion, not a concrete statement of absolute truth (which, of course, the close-minded person KNOWS is only that which HE believes). I am more bothered by the interjection of 'turtles', 'small circle', and 'which MA REALLY kicks butt in the octagon' into countless unrelated threads, or the use of 'u' intead of 'you'. But I accept that for some people, that is how they want to communicate, and it is boring to insist everyone be the same, nor do I consider myself to be the one who should decide.

Sam
06-13-2002, 03:09 AM
Shaun,

Handing out advice to people on how to
express themselves does not come across well.

SeiserL
06-13-2002, 08:19 AM
People, please ...

As Shaun noted, we have converse on and off this forum. No offense was meant or taken. In fact, I felt a nice compliment about my posts. Others have commented, in other forums, about my qualifying my comments too much

Feedback is always welcomed. Feedback from uke lets you learn your waza better. Like the original topic of Judo or Aikido, all input is appreciated, but the final decision is always up to the individual. I tend not to take things personally. If people like my post or not is more a matter of their personal taste and criteria than what or how I accualy post it. Some like humility and some like arrogance. Some like Judo and some like Aikido. Let's call the whole thing off.

And now, he bows, and returns to the training mat.

Until again,

Lynn

BTW: Was that a gentle enter, blend and redirect back to the original question asked?

Misogi-no-Gyo
06-13-2002, 08:59 AM
I waited to hear back from Lynn before I chimed back in. I was beginning to think I was crazy. I re-read my post, over and over, and sure enough, there it was, again and again - a compliment to someone who I feel consistently adds something to the board with each and every post. Not an easy task...

I was acknowledging this by giving some feedback. I was colorfully stating that someone "out here" gets who this person is. I was letting them know that they don't need to "soften" themselves to appease the "sensitive" nature of thin-skinned aikidoka (or other MA-ists) because, in a truly rare case, they come through that way to begin with. That they "are" humble, rather than "appear to be" humble, or "try" to be humble. Perhaps this is something that we have all seen because we know it goes on a bit too much in to the aikido world's face, only to be cast aside when no one seems to be looking.

I am happy that Lynn "got it" and that it was "let in" for what it was - "feedback from the Uke" as Lynn called it. It was meant in that spirit, and apparently taken in that spirit as well.

To those who commented as such, I would like to apologize for hijacking the thread. As for someone's issue with me posting it here in a "public forum," acknowledging someone for being truly humble only makes sense when done publicly. I felt it would be a bit silly to start the "Acknowledge Lynn" thread, so I took the liberty to do it here. I reserve the right to do it again, albeit with the understanding that others will chime in, negatively and positively too.

I was beginning to think I was crazy, or maybe I still am. As in Lynn's case, I too appreciate all the feedback though.

Is everyone still smiling? NO, not everyone? Good, then we are being ourselves, again today.

JJF
06-14-2002, 02:55 AM
Originally posted by Misogi-no-Gyo
Is everyone still smiling? NO, not everyone? Good, then we are being ourselves, again today.
:)

SeiserL
06-14-2002, 08:15 AM
If you try to make everyone happy, you will certainly fail.

If you choose Judo, the Aikido people won't be happy. If you choose Aikido, the Judo people won't be happy. We all think people should choose the way we do. I guess you just got to choose what makes you happy.

Are we crazy? I sure hope so, being normall sure doesn't look oo healthy. We all have to be a little crazy to pick this for a way of life. Good gosh, I pay monthly dues to have a 67 year old 5 foot tall man throw me and pin me and remind me just how much I have to learn. Now that's humility. Or is it humiliation? I really don't care, but I am late for my doseage, so off I go to the Dojo.

I have appreciated (surprisingly) everyone, even if I disagree with content and style, in this forum. I had not been active before the Expo, yet saw many people come together having known each other here. I liked what I saw, so started to share more.

Don't mistake my awareness of my ignorance as humility. To have true humility you must truly have something you do well that you are humble about.

Until again,

Lynn

BTW: Shaun, that other extension project that got redirected, I will find another way. Get your thoughts together. IMHO (just kidding) you have a lot to offer.

Brian Vickery
06-14-2002, 09:29 AM
Hello Robert,

I agree with what Paul Watt suggested, if you're not sure which art to study, give them both a try ...then go with the one you like best ...or if you like both, go with both! (...I hope this appeases those who want to stay strictly on-topic ;) )


Originally posted by SeiserL
If you try to make everyone happy, you will certainly fail.
Hi Lynn,

I'm really curious about this 'IMHO' observation. Is this a carry over from the ettiquette you've learned from the Animal list? I've been lurking on that list for the better part of a year, and have not yet made my intro (...not even sure I EVER will!), and have seen you post there a few times. For me, that list has made an impact on my postings everywhere else, even though I've NEVER posted there. The example set by the GIANTS in the self defense community of humility, respect and courtesy towards all is very contagious. (...of course this is just IMHO! ;) )

Regrards,

Choku Tsuki
06-14-2002, 07:49 PM
Originally posted by Shuken
I like the flowing techniques oh Aikido but also the spectacular fliping throws of Judo.I would primarily like to study Aikido but i would love to do both.
I'd wager more people left judo for aikido than the converse. So start with judo. We'll see you later.

--Chuck

Jermaine Alley
06-16-2002, 09:19 PM
Shuken,
When I made the choice to Aikido, I asked myself "What do I want to achieve in this endeavor?" What is it exactly that you want to get out of studying Judo or Aikido. When you have answered that question, the decision of which art will be simple.
Why not study both? Time permitting, studying both arts will only enhance your skills. But in the beginning stages, you have to make sure that you don't try to confuse the two together. When you attend a Judo class, don't incorporate Aikido in, etc.
O'Sensei studied various styles in his study of Budo that enhanced his understanding of the meanings of all of them.
Good luck...