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ninjaqutie
05-16-2011, 03:39 PM
Any of you been to one of these? I am still having foot issues and I have been trying to get into a ortho for a couple weeks. A friend of mine suggested that a osteo might be a better route to go. Just curious what your experience was with this and what type of treatment you received?

I'm kind of liking the idea of a hands on approach to treatment, but am hoping to hear some personal experiences.

Diana Frese
05-16-2011, 05:09 PM
Hi Ashley,

I like your blog, and was going to re read your latest entry. I had n't seen one lately so I had been wondering about your foot the past couple of days and then I just saw your question. I used to go to an osteopath here years ago, but she was very elderly (but still strong) (but gentle at the same time and the treatments were effective) and then she retired and moved back to the Midwest.

Back then in the late seventies, early eighties she said many of the younger osteopaths just prescribed medicine and didn't give "treatments" , so I'm glad to know they still do.

The treatments worked for me, I mostly had upper back and shoulder problems, plus osteopathy seems to work for colds and similar problems. It probably works for feet, too, so please let us know what the doctor says and how the treatments are progressing ..

All the best, Diana

Janet Rosen
05-16-2011, 05:20 PM
In my experience they really run the gamut - the good ones are more hands-on and into alternative stuff; there are others who are just Western style doctors in their practice if not their licensure. So best to find out about the specific practitioner.

ninjaqutie
05-16-2011, 05:56 PM
Thanks for the advice. I actually know two people who go to this guy, but I haven't been able to talk to either of them in much depth due to time. One is my sensei and the other is the guy I get body work from. Honestly, until I attempted to google, I was ignorant enough not to really know there was a difference. Ooopss....

As for training Diana, I'm still hitting the training mats about three days a week. No where near what I was doing before I started this whole "listening to my body" thing. Now I am doing about four and a half hours of aikido a week, one hour of tai chi and no iaido ::sniffle::

So far, it seems like the lighter schedule is allowing me to train, yet take care of my body at the same time. The sad part is that the foot doesn't appear to be getting better. It seems like it has plateaued. :(

Diana Frese
05-16-2011, 06:10 PM
Here's a description of Dr. Kelly's usual treatment for my situation with back, shoulder and colds, etc. It was kind of a smoothing almost rolling motion over the upper back, with the patient lying on stomach and then kind of smoothing the shoulders down with the patient seated .

As I said before, she was elderly, the treatments were smooth and gentle, but she was strong and they were effective.

Janet seems to echo what Dr. Kelly warned, many osteopaths just prescribe medicine these days... But I have a hunch that if your friend recommended an osteopath for your foot, there is a good chance that osteopath does give (physical) treatments...

A story? How about this one, I hesitated before, but here goes. I had a cold so I had been to Dr. Kelly, it was probably the last treatment in a series and I was almost all better so that evening I went in to New York to an Aikido class Terry Dobson was teaching.

And then after class some of us were practicing and I don't remember what the mixup was but he ended up sort of falling on my shoulder and gasped at the sound. I reassured him, "The shoulder you heard was not the shoulder you hurt."

Since I had just had an osteopathy treatment from Dr. Kelly that morning my shoulder was rather loose, and didn't hurt too much, so I just went back to her office the next morning and was fine after that.

Terry had kindly offered to repair the shoulder right then and there , probably with shiatsu, but since it had been already loosened up that morning I figured it would be fine until I went back to her office and it was.
Nothing against Terry, I was just a bit shaken up. Sometimes it's a little disorienting to have had a cold.

Dr Kelly had a cozy little old style house in downtown Stamford (now there's a small modern office building, probably not medical, in its place...) with a treatment room off the living room, and a tiny office, and a cat called Lucky.

Whenever a cat passed on, another one would appear at her door, and receive the same name. We, too, were lucky to have her as our doctor!

Diana Frese
05-16-2011, 06:30 PM
(I was typing when you posted, so just read your post now)

The osteopath was recommended by my mom's best friend's aunt, so word of mouth seems to be a good way to find out about osteopathy. (Because, with the right kind of osteopathy it can really help!)

About 'listening to your body" I remember writing on another thread the story of a letter a friend of mine, Ginny from Swampscott MA wrote to Chiba Sensei asking about returning to training, his advice was just that. He added that the body is like a dog, if mistreated by its owner it will bite its owner. Someone from Great Britain posted that that sounded just like Chiba Sensei with his unusual ways of getting a point of advice across...

I'm going to Google for osteopathy history, it's quite fascinating from what I remember Dr. Kelley telling us. I think the doctor that developed it was from Missouri or around there ...

Around a decade or more after Dr. Kelly retired, we heard about Rolfing . A friend of my husband's mother recommended it and my mother in law tried it and then we did. It worked. There was an osteopath in the next office, but since we were already patients of Dr. Swan we didn't ask about it ...

lbb
05-16-2011, 09:05 PM
Ashley, what's the issue with the foot?

ninjaqutie
05-16-2011, 09:32 PM
Ashley, what's the issue with the foot?

That is the question of my life for a while now. :( Well, I injured it about 7 months ago when another persons foot slammed into mine while I was attacking shomen. Major pain, couldn't walk for a couple days, limped around for months. I thought about going to the doctor, but people kept telling me that I was over reacting or that there wouldn't be much they could do.

I was silly enough to not go to the doctor and I was stupid enough to train through the pain, limped my way home, iced it, limped around the next day and limped back to class for more. Eventually, I decided to go to the doctor. I actually went to a podiatrist because I thought that would be the better route to go.

He took x-rays and said it wasn't broken. No further tests were done. He told me to stay off of it for two months, take anti-inflammatory meds twice a day and he told me that I bruised the bone marrow.

After two months of sitting on my butt, the doctor told me to go back to my normal activities like I used to. He was made well aware of my activities (aikido, martial arts, working out, etc) and I described and demonstrated some of the typical movements I make. He told me that I was fine.

Well... I'm not fine. My foot still hurts and I have lost all faith in that guy. I feel like he was constantly contradicting himself and was just guessing.

I realize my injury will take time to heal, but I am at my breaking point. I want this issue dealt with and so far, my expectations are higher then what little information/treatment I am receiving. I have been trying to get into an ortho for the past couple weeks. They needed my files before they would consider taking me and I have yet to hear back....

Oh and that reminds me of another thing. I saw the files from the podiatrist and there were things that weren't accurate at all. I think he just plugged and chugged a lot of basic information, but it wasn't accurate none the less. :grr:

Janet Rosen
05-16-2011, 09:50 PM
Yeah, well, I wish you had posted earlier - or if you did that Id seen it - podiatrists would never be my choice for a sports injury.

lbb
05-17-2011, 09:18 AM
Ashley, what was the exact mechanism of injury? What was the motion and what part of your foot had the impact? Where's the injury located in your foot, more or less, and how does it behave?

(speaking as someone who's had a couple of long-term difficult-to-heal foot injuries...no, I'm not a doctor, but I've healed through an injury that the doctors threw up their hands over)

ninjaqutie
05-17-2011, 05:08 PM
Yeah, well, I wish you had posted earlier - or if you did that Id seen it - podiatrists would never be my choice for a sports injury.

Janet, I posted way back in October I think.

ninjaqutie
05-17-2011, 05:11 PM
Ashley, what was the exact mechanism of injury? What was the motion and what part of your foot had the impact? Where's the injury located in your foot, more or less, and how does it behave?

(speaking as someone who's had a couple of long-term difficult-to-heal foot injuries...no, I'm not a doctor, but I've healed through an injury that the doctors threw up their hands over)

My toes collided with another persons foot. We both were entering and he slammed his foot into mine. Feels like a metatarsal injury or something, but not sure. Maybe I tore something small or have damaged the joint socket. Who knows........

lbb
05-17-2011, 09:20 PM
Yeah, okay -- I remember you posting about this now. Did it ever get x-rayed, and if so, at what point after the injury? Is there any point tenderness (pain on touching) on a metatarsal now?

thisisnotreal
05-18-2011, 07:55 AM
Hi Mary, Any non-obvious tips you can share that helped you fix yourself?

lbb
05-18-2011, 02:21 PM
Hi Mary, Any non-obvious tips you can share that helped you fix yourself?

Hi Josh,

I started writing an answer, but it turned into an essay. Look for it in the General forum, under "Healing".

ninjaqutie
05-18-2011, 05:43 PM
Yeah, okay -- I remember you posting about this now. Did it ever get x-rayed, and if so, at what point after the injury? Is there any point tenderness (pain on touching) on a metatarsal now?

I did have x-rays taken about 3 months after the injury. He says there are no breaks or fractures. As for point tenderness, it depends on how much I have aggravated it that day.

The beginning stages of "too much" for my foot feels like a sharp needle poke when you get your blood drawn. Except, with mine, that sharp poke is constant; it never goes away. If I continue to aggravate it for whatever reason that may be (work, aikido, being stubborn, forced to stand or walk to long, etc) then that area becomes rather sensitive to the touch. There are lots of little things I have found out that aggravate it too and I try to avoid those things, but I don't always have control over it and other times, it just gets aggravated for no reason (that I can see), but my body obviously feels differently. :disgust:

lbb
05-19-2011, 01:26 PM
Hmm. Well, it could be a stress fracture -- they often don't show up very well in x-rays...what will show up is the healing of the fracture. My stress fracture was more towards the middle of the metatarsal, which I think is fairly typical. I don't think that stubbing your foot as you did could create a stress fracture, but it could cause an existing stress fracture to become un-ignorable, as my close encounter with my sparring partner's elbow did. Did you ever see an orthopedist about it? A sportsmedicine orthopedist? Have you see any bodyworkers, such as a massage therapist?

Elldav
05-22-2011, 04:53 AM
Interesting thread - in Australia it sounds as if osteopaths are a little different. For example, they can't prescribe medicine.

I occasionally see an osteopath when I am feeling sore. The practitioners here seem to use a blend of massage, manipulation (like shiatsu) and adjustments where they "crack" your back or shoulder or hip. The one I see always check your posture and bone alignment as well. I find I always feel much better after having a treatment.

Ninjaqutie, sorry to hear about your foot. I would think an (Australian-type) osteo would be perfect for treating it. I saw mine when I dislocated my toe (it was about 4 weeks later) - her advice was to rest it for a few more weeks and train with it taped to the big toe, and once the inflammation was down, to really give the toe good, strong, hard massage and manipulation with the rationale that the foot takes a considerable amount of "pounding".

ninjaqutie
05-26-2011, 12:16 AM
I don't think I have a stress fracture. The doctor used that weird tuning fork thingy majig and he said I would have yelped when he used it if I had one. I am still waiting on an appointment with an ortho, but they have yet to call me back. I am about to give up on them and see about the osteo guy people told me of. My sensei and another student of the dojo are both body workers/massage therapists and they have done a little work on it, but they both said an ortho would probably be able to get into that area of the foot and would be more knowledgeable about the nuances of the foot.

lbb
05-26-2011, 08:42 AM
Ashley, go see a sportsmedicine orthopedist. Just make an appointment. Right now you're simply shooting blind -- go see someone who can tell you what the problem is before you go groping about for solutions. Your appointment will most likely not be very soon, but that's the nature of the beast. Just make the appointment and settle down to be patient in the meantime.

ninjaqutie
05-26-2011, 05:54 PM
I have been trying to get in with an ortho (this guy specializes in sports medicine/ankle & foot) and it has been 3 weeks and he hasn't even evaluated my medical records yet. I can't make an appointment with them until he evaluates my records from the other doctor and he got them on May 2. I have already called and inquired, but they just say he hasn't gotten around to it.......

lbb
05-27-2011, 07:49 AM
As hard as it seems, I'd advise hanging in there. What else are you going to do? If you want to go see this osteo as well, that's your choice -- I have no insight as to whether that will help. But don't give up on the ortho.

abraxis
05-28-2011, 09:26 PM
I have been trying to get in with an ortho (this guy specializes in sports medicine/ankle & foot) and it has been 3 weeks and he hasn't even evaluated my medical records yet. I can't make an appointment with them until he evaluates my records from the other doctor and he got them on May 2. I have already called and inquired, but they just say he hasn't gotten around to it.......

Ashley, I think you have been given good advice in this thread and your decision to be seen by an orthopod specializing in sports medicine is the right way to go. To speed up the process you might, If it is possible for you to do so, ask to be put on the appointment cancellation list. You might tell the MD's office you can be reached by cell phone and are willing to come in on short notice--keeps them booked up which is what they usually prefer but this particular specialist may not do things this way so talk to the NP/PA at the office and see if they can help.

Beyond this, since I'm convinced that walking barefoot is not advisable until you are cleared for it by your orthopod, I would cut back on dojo practice and always wear comfy shoes around the house. Not just socks or socks with slippers but supportive shoes with gel inserts for soles and heels. Reduces stresses on the foot and provides support as well while also offering protection against further injury. Having a shoe that is one size larger than usual may look odd but it would allow for the inserts + cushion socks to fit comfortably. Ultimately you will have to evaluate and decide for yourself, in fact you are sure to become an expert on your own condition and ones like it so please keep us posted and good luck.

ninjaqutie
05-30-2011, 03:22 PM
I think I found something that may help my foot while I decide what my next move is. Any of you have any experience using one of these (http://www.yamatobudogu.com/Sole_Protector_p/006-solprot-k00025.htm)? It seems like the best option I have come across because it actually appears as if it will stand a chance of staying on my foot. :)

abraxis
05-30-2011, 03:40 PM
I think I found something that may help my foot while I decide what my next move is. Any of you have any experience using one of these (http://www.yamatobudogu.com/Sole_Protector_p/006-solprot-k00025.htm)? It seems like the best option I have come across because it actually appears as if it will stand a chance of staying on my foot. :)

I guess if you continue to goto the dojo that might help. But it looks like it might do more than just act as a sole protector. If you need that you should also use sole pads in your shoes. You may need to ask someone to r/o plantar faciitis which is what I had. Any chance you also need arch supports? Has you primary care seen you about this condition?

lbb
05-30-2011, 06:06 PM
I think I found something that may help my foot while I decide what my next move is. Any of you have any experience using one of these (http://www.yamatobudogu.com/Sole_Protector_p/006-solprot-k00025.htm)? It seems like the best option I have come across because it actually appears as if it will stand a chance of staying on my foot. :)

I tried something similar, and it didn't help me. It depends on the problem you're trying to solve (and, again, you need a diagnosis to know what that is). They don't say what the construction of that sleeve is or what it's intended to do, but it looks like the sort of elasticized/neoprene wraps or "supports' that don't, in fact, provide enough support in the case of most injuries to allow you to resume activity. If all you need is a little compression, then sure, it might help. But, again, without a diagnosis, you don't know if that's what's indicated or not.