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View Full Version : Keanu Reeves to Rape Japanese Culture (Remake of "47 Ronin")


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Gorgeous George
01-14-2011, 04:56 AM
Is nothing sacred...?

http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=51176

The guy who wrote 'Fast and Furious' is writing it, for Christ's sake...

I wonder how they'll explain the presence of a white man...

As one comment reads:

'one billion of us out there and the best they can find is the sidekick from the Bill and Ted movies...guy has as much personality as a paper sack... '.

Tatsukage
01-14-2011, 10:13 AM
Seriously? I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Possibly both.

Randy Sexton
01-14-2011, 10:15 AM
A very rich and very popular paper sack!!
Doc Sexton

Gary Petrison
01-15-2011, 12:25 AM
The link is from 2008, but the movie is still in production with a scheduled release date of November 21,2012.

sakumeikan
01-15-2011, 10:45 AM
Is nothing sacred...?

http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=51176

The guy who wrote 'Fast and Furious' is writing it, for Christ's sake...

I wonder how they'll explain the presence of a white man...

As one comment reads:

'one billion of us out there and the best they can find is the sidekick from the Bill and Ted movies...guy has as much personality as a paper sack... '.
Hi Graham,
God forbid.Reeves makes a bokken look animated. Reves is rich -yes, popular -perhaps , an actor -grim. Seagal [bad as he is ] acts like an Oscar winner in relation to the wooden wonder.

lbb
01-16-2011, 06:01 PM
Release date of 2012? It'll never see the light of day. Any idea whose pet project this is?

Gorgeous George
01-17-2011, 03:21 AM
@ Joe: you're absolutely correct, haha: Seagal out-acts the man...troubling.

@ Mary: IMDB says Carl Rinsch(?) is the director -

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1335975/

As to likelihood of release: they're already hard at work making hundreds of kimonos, it seems -

http://www.showbiz-i.com/2010/12/10/keanu-prostitutes-with-long-sleeves/

lbb
01-17-2011, 07:36 AM
As to likelihood of release: they're already hard at work making hundreds of kimonos, it seems -

http://www.showbiz-i.com/2010/12/10/keanu-prostitutes-with-long-sleeves/

Wow. If that picture doesn't paint a thousand words, I don't know what does. Keanu Reeves, a latter-day David Carradine.

Cliff Judge
01-17-2011, 08:03 AM
Wow. If that picture doesn't paint a thousand words, I don't know what does. Keanu Reeves, a latter-day David Carradine.

Isn't that a still from "The Matrix"?

lbb
01-17-2011, 08:11 AM
Isn't that a still from "The Matrix"?

Wouldn't know, I couldn't make it past the first ten minutes. He's like Botox Man or something.

Gorgeous George
01-17-2011, 08:52 AM
Wouldn't know, I couldn't make it past the first ten minutes. He's like Botox Man or something.

Haha. Then you spared yourself the two sequels: two films that ruined a perfectly good trilogy.

And yes: I believe the still is from The Matrix.

I also heard the idiot is gonna do Bill and Ted 3...

Aikibu
01-17-2011, 11:57 AM
Hmmmmmm....

Would you folks consider a Jackie Chan remake of "Patton" to be a rape of American "Culture" ;) LOL

Seriously....It's a fracking movie (if it ever gets made) nothing more.

William Hazen

Gorgeous George
01-17-2011, 12:05 PM
Hmmmmmm....

Would you folks consider a Jackie Chan remake of "Patton" to be a rape of American "Culture" ;) LOL

Seriously....It's a fracking movie (if it ever gets made) nothing more.

William Hazen

Indeed. But then, aren't forms of media/mass communication responsible for the shaping of society - people's' attitudes, sense of history, what have you?
There was uproar at that Mel Gibson Christian film where he was accused of anti-Semitism...just a film - nothing more - but tell that to Julius Streicher: they hanged him after the war, and all he did was publish a newspaper.
And if you look at forms of propagandising/programming in Soviet Russia: they couldn't use printed media, as people were illiterate, so they set up cinemas...

Ideas are very important things - the most important things, in fact: people live solely for the sake of ideas.
Men die: ideas live on.

kewms
01-17-2011, 10:21 PM
And if you look at forms of propagandising/programming in Soviet Russia: they couldn't use printed media, as people were illiterate, so they set up cinemas...

Not true. Literacy rates in Soviet Russia grew steadily from the Revolution until the fall of Communism.

Cinema was a powerful form of propaganda, but compulsory, state-run education was even more powerful.

Katherine

Gorgeous George
01-17-2011, 11:50 PM
Not true. Literacy rates in Soviet Russia grew steadily from the Revolution until the fall of Communism.

Cinema was a powerful form of propaganda, but compulsory, state-run education was even more powerful.

Katherine

Haha.
I didn't contend the contrary.

I read - in a respected history book - about how the fascists/Communists travelled throughout Russia (a very backwards place), with portable cinemas, because the people weren't able to read, hence written propaganda was useless.
There were attempts to get the few literate peasants to teach others, but these were unsuccessful.
Later educational reforms - aiming to increase literacy - were enacted, like all else, only for the sake of the State: those who can read, can read propaganda...

Some interesting reading:

http://www.filmreference.com/encyclopedia/Romantic-Comedy-Yugoslavia/Russia-and-Soviet-Union-REVOLUTIONARY-PERIOD-1918-1929.html

http://www.essortment.com/all/sovietpropagand_rboc.htm

I wouldn't have thought that a 'steady increase in literacy rates' in Russia, from 1917 to 1990, was a resounding success: these people were largely ignorant peasants - serfs, until it was nearly the 20th century; even post-'emancipation', they were little more than isolated, parochial farmers.
Bertrand Russell's account of his visit to Russia in 1920 is excellent: he speaks of the peasants' dismay when the government took their food, to replace it only with paper (money), that they had no use for.
So I think a steady progress from this state of affairs, is not really befitting a nation with nuclear weapons.

But you know: there was ambiguity in my statement - I wasn't referring to the entire history of the Soviet Union; I meant the early years, mainly.

kewms
01-18-2011, 01:59 AM
I wouldn't have thought that a 'steady increase in literacy rates' in Russia, from 1917 to 1990, was a resounding success: these people were largely ignorant peasants - serfs, until it was nearly the 20th century; even post-'emancipation', they were little more than isolated, parochial farmers.
Bertrand Russell's account of his visit to Russia in 1920 is excellent: he speaks of the peasants' dismay when the government took their food, to replace it only with paper (money), that they had no use for.
So I think a steady progress from this state of affairs, is not really befitting a nation with nuclear weapons.

They didn't have nuclear weapons in 1920... By the 1930s, literacy rates were above 75%, which is (depending on methodology) arguably better than modern nuclear powers like the United States.

Katherine

Gorgeous George
01-18-2011, 02:39 AM
They didn't have nuclear weapons in 1920... By the 1930s, literacy rates were above 75%, which is (depending on methodology) arguably better than modern nuclear powers like the United States.

Katherine

I didn't say they had nuclear weapons in 1920...but thank you for the factoid.

75%? Really? What's the source - not the Communists...?

lbb
01-18-2011, 07:46 AM
What is the sound of an axe being ground? I think we're hearing it here.

Gorgeous George
01-18-2011, 07:58 AM
What is the sound of an axe being ground? I think we're hearing it here.

Haha.

sakumeikan
01-18-2011, 10:10 AM
Wow. If that picture doesn't paint a thousand words, I don't know what does. Keanu Reeves, a latter-day David Carradine.
Hi Mary,
Who /what should we hang up in the wardrobe? Joe.

lbb
01-18-2011, 12:36 PM
Hi Mary,
Who /what should we hang up in the wardrobe? Joe.

Is this a trick question? If you can snatch the pebble from my hand...uhhhh wait it's the rice paper...

sakumeikan
01-19-2011, 02:51 AM
Is this a trick question? If you can snatch the pebble from my hand...uhhhh wait it's the rice paper...

Hi Mary,
Not to sure about snatching pebble from your hand.Might try snatching your hand from the pebble.Improvising my waza here.
As far as rice paper is concerned my plodding feet would not be sensitive enough----might need corrugated cardboard to show off my skills.
Cheers, Joe.

lbb
01-19-2011, 09:30 AM
Right, that was clearly one cultural reference too many...

OwlMatt
01-20-2011, 06:12 PM
They're going to have to take a lot of liberties with the story, I think, if they want to make this an action flick. The only real violence in the story of the 47 is at the beginning and at the end.

If I wanted to make a movie of the story, I'd make a film version of The Hokkaido Road.

mjongkamp
07-30-2014, 05:26 PM
wow, I see the subtitles now and I liked the movie. Not great but nice. however I do not understand the prejudicies which started this thread.

SteliosPapadakis
07-31-2014, 01:41 AM
wow, I see the subtitles now and I liked the movie. Not great but nice. however I do not understand the prejudicies which started this thread.

otoh i do not understand any prejudicies whatsoever... :D

lbb
07-31-2014, 08:30 AM
wow, I see the subtitles now and I liked the movie. Not great but nice. however I do not understand the prejudicies which started this thread.

What prejudices are you talking about?

mjongkamp
08-01-2014, 06:54 AM
What prejudices are you talking about?

Well, I found this thread just after seeing the movie and replied instantly without thinking to much :) The name of the thread and replies seemed not righteous for me at that time. Also this thread started way before the movie was produced so it looked to me that there were some prejudices, and I am a bit sensitive to that lately. For instance, after seeing this movie I do not think Keanu Reeves raped Japanese culture. But then again as an European in the 21st century I do not know much about the culture so maybe that's why I didn't understand it.

First I must admit I do not know the story of the 47 ronin exactly as it been told originally (I doubt there's only one version) but in my opinion the producer and Keanu did a good job in making a convincing movie about it. Despite the fact that Keanu is a bit wooden/stiff/clumsy, I didn't noticed it much in this performance. Minimal facial expression suited his role of lowest class/bashed/outcasted 'demon'. In fact in his role he wasn't a Samurai but followed the 'bushido' path more then the Samurai were. Also the mythical and alien looking creatures in the movie didn't bother me because I have seen (read) those in Japanese saga before. All in all a nice and beautiful American style movie about the Japanese story about the 47 ronin, surely not for everyone.

lbb
08-04-2014, 07:30 AM
So, you saw the movie and enjoyed it. People enjoyed the musical "Oliver!" too, but it's certainly legitimate (and not "prejudiced") to point out that the orphans in Dickens' "Oliver Twist" were hardly bursting into song at the drop of a hat. I have no problem with those who want to make an entertaining film, but I think there's a legitimate complaint if you claim to be making a film of a particular story and then just not follow the story.

Keith Larman
08-04-2014, 10:31 AM
Huh. Wow. Didn't see it. Don't care. And I don't recall any propaganda trucks cruising through demanding we attend screenings for proper indoctrination.

The, um, drama evident in this thread is somewhat ironic...

The kid wanted to see a movie this weekend that apparently has a small, talking raccoon voiced by some famous actor fella. But I was vastly too busy raping intergalactic culture reading the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, Oh, heavens, I hope it doesn't pervert my sensibilities too much. At least I have my towel...

dps
08-04-2014, 03:54 PM
Umm movies are make believe and are not reality. Their purpose is to make money not tell historically correct stories. The screen writer, producer, director and actors interpret the story the way they want it to be. Any resemblance to actual events are purely accidental.

dps

lbb
08-04-2014, 09:12 PM
In my opinion, if you claim to be telling a particular story, you should tell that story. If you want to tell some other story, then say so.

Keith Larman
08-04-2014, 09:32 PM
I would think the very fact Reeves was the lead would be a sufficient warning of rather significant artistic license...

Peter Goldsbury
08-05-2014, 02:11 AM
I would think the very fact Reeves was the lead would be a sufficient warning of rather significant artistic license...

Hello Keith,

The same is true of Tom Cruise in The Last Samurai. It is curious that Sanada Hiroyuki appears in both films, and in a vaguely similar role: as the upholder of traditional Japanese values as these are popularly understood. The depiction of the 47 Ronin story in Japanese literature, including drama, is worth a study in itself.

One of my students did his graduation thesis on the Titanic disaster, considered as a vehicle for presenting dramatic fiction.I have four Titanic films and all of them are different. I also have three film versions of Melville's Moby Dick and all of them deviate in interesting respects from what Melville actually wrote. With a film like Troy, you have a double issue, for the film in which Brad Pitt plays Achilles has been criticized from deviating from Homer's account of the Trojan war, but his account is highly fictional to begin with.

lbb
08-05-2014, 07:43 AM
I would think the very fact Reeves was the lead would be a sufficient warning of rather significant artistic license...

Well, yes. Note that I didn't waste my money on this clunker.

Keith Larman
08-05-2014, 11:16 AM
Hello Keith,

The same is true of Tom Cruise in The Last Samurai. It is curious that Sanada Hiroyuki appears in both films, and in a vaguely similar role: as the upholder of traditional Japanese values as these are popularly understood. The depiction of the 47 Ronin story in Japanese literature, including drama, is worth a study in itself.

One of my students did his graduation thesis on the Titanic disaster, considered as a vehicle for presenting dramatic fiction.I have four Titanic films and all of them are different. I also have three film versions of Melville's Moby Dick and all of them deviate in interesting respects from what Melville actually wrote. With a film like Troy, you have a double issue, for the film in which Brad Pitt plays Achilles has been criticized from deviating from Homer's account of the Trojan war, but his account is highly fictional to begin with.

Yeah, it was funny, years ago I came across a decent nihonto in a lovely old handmade sword box with an ownership attribution beautifully brushed on the top. What was funny is that it said the sword was owned by one of the "loyal 47 ronin" and used a name from one of the versions of the Chūshingura kabuki (I think -- it was a while ago). So it was clearly a "fake" attribution but the story has such a life of its own that the fictionalized versions are better known and sometimes considered more accurate than the known history.

Then there's the entire Musashi legend that was so, well, expanded by Yoshikawa. And just a month or two ago a student of mine came by with a copy of the Hagakure explaining to me how very informative it was to him about the nature of Japanese samurai culture.

Hobbsbawm in action...

And in virtually every bad movie ever made here with Japanese swords, I cringe every time someone draws the sword. The effects folk put in that god-awful metal "screeetch" sound. Argh!!!!! Your sword isn't working right!!!!!!! Nails on a chalkboard for me.

lbb
08-05-2014, 11:23 AM
Well hey, I got a copy of Stan Sakai's illustrated "47 Ronin" from Stan Sakai, autographed and WITH a samurai doodle from the man himself. I'm such a fan. My old jo sensei saw me reading a copy of "Usagi Yojimbo" once, which has about a gazillion recycled stories/legends/histories, looked at a picture of Usagi with a sword, and said, "Oh, he's a kendo guy."

Keith Larman
08-05-2014, 02:18 PM
Anyway, I think part of the point is that there are some stories that are deeply intertwined in cultures. And those stories themselves morph to a great extent over time as future generations meld them to impart the important values of the time. Frankly there are multiple versions of the 47 Ronin story with a variety of interpretations. And the business about invented traditions I brought up is also relevant as those stories, often made up or greatly distorted from the historical "fact" (no, I'm not defining that one either) is to hopefully help us realize that these things are not monolithic, never changing things. They are a reflection of their time and place and if they are to survive they often change for the times as much as our understanding of times past are affected by them.

Leaving me pretty much where I started in this... I had no desire really to see it. And calling it a "raping" of culture strikes me as rather excessive. But i think there is a good supply of irony involved when you realize how malleable these stories ultimately are over time. And so many want to preserve the "right" version out of what are in fact many, many versions. When the right one may not even exist...

Sorry, home on my back, drugged a bit. trying to deal with some pain. So I'm chatty too. And probably incoherent. So signing off... ;)

Mark Greenwood
08-21-2014, 04:36 PM
The use of the word rape is quite disgusting. Sorry for being serious.