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RED
01-10-2011, 08:14 AM
We all know the 7 virtues of Budo, represented by the 7 pleats of the hakama.

Virtues:
Jin: benevolence
Gi: honor or justice
Rei: etiquette or politeness
Chi: wisdom
Shin: sincerity
Chu: loyalty
Koh: piety or humanity

I have a personal belief that all these virtues are invaluable "soft skills" in life. While I'm not perfect and fall short of much, I believe that values like these are a good foundation for living a successful and full life. While at times I've been short or rude with people I understand the importance of the virtue Rei. etc. etc.

While I respect these virtues, there might be others who disregard them for whatever reason.
What are your views?

lbb
01-10-2011, 08:44 AM
I'd agree if by "foundation" you mean that the process of striving for the seven virtues, as well as thinking about what they really mean and how they could/should play out in your life, provides a decent set of guidelines for living a good life. I don't think that they're the "foundation" in the sense that you get these seven virtues and then go on to have a good life: realistically, most people might really achieve one or two of those by the time they get to the end of a life well lived, so having all seven as a "foundation" in the usual sense of the word (basis or starting point) isn't going to happen.

guest1234567
01-10-2011, 08:44 AM
I think they are all necessary if one practices aikido for a long time, and if one had a lack of any before beginning the practice he'll become it with practice otherwise one will not improve as much as he is training, something always will lack to develop and grow in this beautiful martial art

Demetrio Cereijo
01-10-2011, 08:59 AM
We all know the 7 virtues of Budo, represented by the 7 pleats of the hakama.

What are your views?

Mine are: the seven virtues of Budo is a fabrication of Nitobe Inazo and the joba hakama pleats are nothing but pleats.

Then someone considered people should attend keiko properly dressed and ... here we are.

RED
01-10-2011, 09:13 AM
I do not mean to imply that the 7 virtues should or are any replacement for religious or any other moral foundations in one's life.
Rather I see the virtue of the adherence to these codes if one expects to practice Aikido for any length of time. However these virtues are prevalent in any number of world religions and other moral codes, therefore I don't see them as a replacement for those belief systems.

sorokod
01-10-2011, 10:00 AM
So is it honor or justice ? Both? Maybe eight then?

Tony Wagstaffe
01-10-2011, 10:13 AM
Now where did I put the blasted iron? :D

Ah! found me ribbons..... :D

RED
01-10-2011, 11:37 AM
So is it honor or justice ? Both? Maybe eight then?

Honor is considered a like-concept to justice. Justice and honor is a synonymous concept. Justice is the pursuit of what is right and correct, to have honor is to do what is right and correct, thus they are considered the same virtue. At least from the definition of this specific culture.

Demetrio Cereijo
01-10-2011, 11:46 AM
Honor is considered a like-concept to justice. Justice and honor is a synonymous concept. Justice is the pursuit of what is right and correct, to have honor is to do what is right and correct, thus they are considered the same virtue. At least from the definition of this specific culture.

Not really.

RECTITUDE OR JUSTICE

Here we discern the most cogent precept in the code of the samurai. Nothing is more loathsome to him than underhand dealings and crooked undertakings. The conception of Rectitude may be erroneous---it may be narrow. A well-known bushi [Hayashi Shihei 1738-93] defines it as a power of resolution;---"Rectitude is the power of deciding upon a certain course of conduct in accordance with reason, without wavering;---to die when it is right to die, to strike when to strike is right." Another [Maki Izumi 1813-64] speaks of it in the following terms: "Rectitude is the bone that gives firmness and stature. As without bones the head cannot rest on the top of the spine, nor hands move nor feet stand, so without rectitude neither talent nor learning can make of a human frame a samurai. With it the lack of accomplishments is as nothing." Mencius calls Benevolence man's mind, and Rectitude or Righteousness his path. "How lamentable," he exclaims, "is it to neglect the path and not pursue it, to lose the mind and not know to seek it again! When men's fowls and dogs are lost, they know to seek for them again, but they lose their mind and do not know to seek for it." Have we not here "as in a glass darkly" a parable propounded three hundred years later in another clime and by a greater Teacher, Who called Himself the Way of righteousness, through whom the lost could be found? But I stray from my point. Righteousness, according to Mencius, is a straight and narrow path which a man ought to take to regain the lost paradise .
Even in the latter days of feudalism, when the long continuance of peace brought leisure into the life of the warrior class, and with it dissipations of all kinds and accomplishments of gentle arts, the epithet Gishi (a man of rectitude) was considered superior to any name that signified mastery of learning or art. The Forty-seven Faithfuls [an event of 1702]---of whom so much is made in our popular education---are known in common parlance as the Forty-seven Gishi .
In times when cunning artifice was liable to pass for military tact and downright falsehood for ruse de guerre, this manly virtue, frank and honest, was a jewel that shone the brightest and was most highly praised. Rectitude is a twin brother to Valour, another martial virtue. But before proceeding to speak of Valour, let me linger a little while on what I may term a derivation from Rectitude, which, at first deviating slightly from its original, became more and more removed from it, until its meaning was perverted in the popular acceptance. I speak of Gi-ri, literally the Right Reason, but which came in time to mean a vague sense of duty which public opinion expects an incumbent to fulfil. In its original and unalloyed sense, it meant duty, pure and simple,---hence, we speak of the Giri we owe to parents, to superiors, to inferiors, to society at large, and so forth. In these instances Giri is duty; for what else is duty than what Right Reason demands and commands us to do? Should not Right Reason be our categorical imperative? Giri primarily meant no more than duty, and I dare say its etymology was derived from the fact, that in our conduct, say to our parents, though love should be the only motive, lacking that, there must be some other authority to enforce filial piety; and they formulated this authority in Giri .
Very rightly did they formulate this authority---Giri---since if love does not rush to deeds of virtue, recourse must be had to man's intellect and his reason must be quickened to convince him of the necessity of acting aright. The same is true of any other moral obligation. The instant Duty becomes onerous, Right Reason steps in to prevent our shirking it. Giri thus understood is a severe task- master, with a birch-rod in his hand to make sluggards perform their part. It is a secondary power in ethics; as a motive it is infinitely inferior to the Christian doctrine of love, which should be the law .
I deem it a product of the conditions of an artificial society---of a society in which accident of birth and unmerited favour instituted class distinctions, in which the family was the social unit, in which seniority of age was of more account than superiority of talents, in which natural affections had often to succumb before arbitrary man-made customs. Because of this very artificiality, Giri in time degenerated into a vague sense of propriety called up to explain this and sanction that,---as, for example, why a mother must, if need be, sacrifice all her other children in order to save the first- born; or why a daughter must sell her chastity to get funds to pay for the father's dissipation, and the like. Starting as Right Reason, Giri has, in my opinion, often stooped to casuistry. It has even degenerated into cowardly fear of censure. I might say of Giri what Scott wrote of patriotism, that "as it is the fairest, so it is often the most suspicious, mask of other feelings." Carried beyond or below Right Reason, Giri became a monstrous misnomer. It harboured under its wings every sort of sophistry and hypocrisy. It would have been easily turned into a nest of cowardice, if Bushido had not a keen and correct sense of courage, the spirit of daring and bearing .

HONOUR

The sense of honour, implying a vivid consciousness of personal dignity and worth, could not fail to characterize the samurai, born and bred to value the duties and privileges of their profession .
Though the word ordinarily given nowadays as the translation of honour was not used freely, yet the idea was conveyed by such terms as na (name), men-moku (countenance), guai-bun (outside hearing), reminding us respectively of the biblical use of "name," of the evolution of the term "personality" from the Greek mask, and of "fame." A good name---one's reputation, "the immortal part of one's self, what remains being bestial"---assumed as a matter of course, any infringement upon its integrity was felt as shame, and the sense of shame (Ren-chi-shin) was one of the earliest to be cherished in juvenile education. "You will be laughed at," "It will disgrace you," "Are you not ashamed?" were the last appeal to correct behaviour on the part of a youthful delinquent. Such a recourse to his honour touched the most sensitive spot in the child's heart, as though he had been nursed on honour while he was in his mother's womb; for most truly is honour a pre-natal influence, being closely bound up with strong family consciousness. "In losing the solidarity of families," says Balzac, "society has lost the fundamental force which Montesquieu named Honour." Indeed, the sense of shame seems to me to be the earliest indication of the moral consciousness of the race. The first and worst punishment which befell humanity in consequence of tasting "the fruit of that forbidden tree" was, to my mind, not the sorrow of child-birth, nor the thorns and thistles, but the awakening of the sense of shame. Few incidents in history excel in pathos the scene of the first mother plying, with heaving breast and tremulous fingers, her crude needle on the few fig leaves which her dejected husband plucked for her. This first fruit of disobedience clings to us with a tenacity that nothing else does. All the sartorial ingenuity of mankind has not yet succeeded in sewing an apron that will efficaciously hide our sense of shame. That samurai [Arai Hakuseki 1657-1725] was right who refused to compromise his character by a slight humiliation in his youth; "because," he said, "dishonour is like a scar on a tree, which time, instead of effacing, only helps to enlarge."
Mencius had taught centuries before, in almost the identical phrase, what Carlyle has latterly expressed,---namely, that "Shame is the soil of all Virtue, of good manners and good morals."
The fear of disgrace was so great that if our literature lacks such eloquence as Shakespeare puts into the mouth of Norfolk, it nevertheless hung like Damocles' sword over the head of every samurai and often assumed a morbid character. In the name of honour, deeds were perpetrated which can find no justification in the code of Bushido. At the slightest, nay---imaginary insult---the quick-tempered braggart took offence, resorted to the use of the sword, and many an unnecessary strife was raised and many an innocent life lost. The story of a well-meaning citizen who called the attention of a bushi to a flea jumping on his back, and who was forthwith cut in two, for the simple and questionable reason, that inasmuch as fleas are parasites which feed on animals, it was an unpardonable insult to identify a noble warrior with a beast---I say, stories like these are too frivolous to believe. Yet, the circulation of such stories implies three things: (1) that they were invented to overawe common people; (2) that abuses were really made of the samurai's profession of honour; and (3) that a very strong sense of shame was developed among them. It is plainly unfair to take an abnormal case to cast blame upon the precepts, any more than to judge of the true teachings of Christ from the fruits of religious fanaticism and extravagance,---inquisitions and hypocrisy. But, as in religious monomania there is something touchingly noble as compared with the delirium tremens of a drunkard, so in that extreme sensitiveness of the samurai about their honour do we not recognize the substratum of a genuine virtue? The morbid excess into which the delicate code of honour was inclined to run was strongly counterbalanced by preaching magnanimity and patience. To take offence at slight provocation was ridiculed as "short-tempered." The popular adage said: "To bear what you think you cannot bear is really to bear." The great Iy_yasu [Tokugawa Iy_yasu 1542-1616] left to posterity a few maxims, among which are the following:---"The life of man is like going a long distance with a heavy load upon the shoulders. Haste not. . . . Reproach none, but be forever watchful of thine own short- comings. . . . Forbearance is the basis of length of days." He proved in his life what he preached. A literary wit put a characteristic epigram into the mouths of three well-known personages in our history: to Nobunaga [1534-82] he attributed, "I will kill her, if the nightingale sings not in time"; to Hid_yoshi [1536-98], "I will force her to sing for me"; and to Iy_yasu, "I will wait till she opens her lips."
Patience and long-suffering were also highly commended by Mencius. In one place he writes to this effect: "Though you denude yourself and insult me, what is that to me? You cannot defile my soul by your outrage." Elsewhere he teaches that anger at a petty offence is unworthy a superior man, but indignation for a great cause is righteous wrath .
To what height of unmartial and unresisting meekness Bushido could reach in some of its votaries, may be seen in their utterances. Take, for instance, this saying of Ogawa [1649-96]: "When others speak all manner of evil things against thee, return not evil for evil, but rather reflect that thou wast not more faithful in the discharge of thy duties." Take another of Kumazawa [1619- 91]:---"When others blame thee, blame them not; when others are angry at thee, return not anger .
Joy cometh only as Passion and Desire part." Still another instance I may cite from Saigo [1827-77], upon whose overhanging brows "Shame is ashamed to sit":---"The Way is the way of Heaven and Earth; Man's place is to follow it; therefore make it the object of thy life to reverence Heaven .
Heaven loves me and others with equal love; therefore with the love wherewith thou lovest thyself, love others. Make not Man thy partner but Heaven, and making Heaven thy partner do thy best .
Never condemn others; but see to it that thou comest not short of thine own mark." Some of these sayings remind us of Christian expostulations, and show us how far in practical morality natural religion can approach the revealed. Not only did these sayings remain as utterances, but they were really embodied in acts .
It must be admitted that very few attained this sublime height of magnanimity, patience and forgiveness. It was a great pity that nothing clear and general was expressed as to what constitutes honour, only a few enlightened minds being aware that it "from no condition rises," but that it lies in each acting well his part; for nothing was easier than for youths to forget in the heat of action what they had learned in Mencius in their calmer moments. Said this sage: "'Tis in every man's mind to love honour; but little doth he dream that what is truly honourable lies within himself and not elsewhere. The honour which men confer is not good honour. Those whom Ch_o the Great ennobles, he can make mean again." For the most part, an insult was quickly resented and repaid by death, as we shall see later, while honour---too often nothing higher than vainglory or worldly approbation---was prized as the summum bonum of earthly existence. Fame, and not wealth or knowledge, was the goal toward which youths had to strive. Many a lad swore within himself as he crossed the threshold of his paternal home, that he would not recross it until he had made a name in the world; and many an ambitious mother refused to see her sons again unless they could "return home," as the expression is, "caparisoned in brocade." To shun shame or win a name, samurai boys would submit to any privations and undergo severest ordeals of bodily or mental suffering. They knew that honour won in youth grows with age. In the memorable siege of Osaka [1615], a young son of Iy_yasu, in spite of his earnest entreaties to be put in the vanguard, was placed at the rear of the army. When the castle fell, he was so chagrined and wept so bitterly that an old councillor tried to console him with all the resources at his command; "Take comfort, Sire," said he "at the thought of the long future before you. In the many years that you may live, there will come divers occasions to distinguish yourself." The boy fixed his indignant gaze upon the man and said---"How foolishly you talk! Can ever my fourteenth year come round again?" Life itself was thought cheap if honour and fame could be attained therewith: hence, whenever a cause presented itself which was considered dearer than life, with utmost serenity and celerity was life laid down .
Of the causes in comparison with which no life was too dear to sacrifice, was the duty of loyalty, which was the key-stone making feudal virtues a symmetrical arch .

RED
01-10-2011, 11:50 AM
just going off of the definition from the book I had.

Demetrio Cereijo
01-10-2011, 12:01 PM
If you don't mind, what book was that?

phitruong
01-10-2011, 12:02 PM
oh man! need stronger coffee this morning. thought i saw the title was "the seven virgins of aikido". didn't know we have those. must be a rare thing now a day. :D

must be a japanese thing to come up with things for clothing. where i came from, it would be "got pants have you? put it on!" :)

sorokod
01-10-2011, 12:07 PM
Here is a somewhat different list:

http://midamericakarate.com/Seven%20Tenants%20of%20Bushido.pdf

I do not think you should disregard Yuki.

RED
01-10-2011, 12:15 PM
If you don't mind, what book was that?

Dave Lowry's Budo Essentials.

Tony Wagstaffe
01-10-2011, 12:20 PM
oh man! need stronger coffee this morning. thought i saw the title was "the seven virgins of aikido". didn't know we have those. must be a rare thing now a day. :D

must be a japanese thing to come up with things for clothing. where i came from, it would be "got pants have you? put it on!" :)

Got some nice handbaggo wa that would look nice with the 7 pleats....
:D ;)

RED
01-10-2011, 12:22 PM
oh man! need stronger coffee this morning. thought i saw the title was "the seven virgins of aikido". didn't know we have those. must be a rare thing now a day. :D


Now we know why you clicked on this link then :p

Demetrio Cereijo
01-10-2011, 12:26 PM
Dave Lowry's Budo Essentials.

Thanks.

lbb
01-10-2011, 12:28 PM
Here is a somewhat different list:

http://midamericakarate.com/Seven%20Tenants%20of%20Bushido.pdf

I do not think you should disregard Yuki.

Omg. "The Seven Tenants of Budo".

I'm sorry, I cannot take anything seriously when it's under that title.

Janet Rosen
01-10-2011, 01:38 PM
Omg. "The Seven Tenants of Budo".

I'm sorry, I cannot take anything seriously when it's under that title.
It's just an idle roomer, Mary :-)

Demetrio Cereijo
01-10-2011, 02:55 PM
Maggie,

You could give Dave Lowry's "The Essence of Budo" a try. Especially pages 55-56 dealing with Nitobe's "Bushido".

guest1234567
01-10-2011, 03:49 PM
Maggie,

You could give Dave Lowry's "The Essence of Budo" a try. Especially pages 55-56 dealing with Nitobe's "Bushido".

http://books.google.es/books?id=QFleWvdt3YoC&printsec=frontcover&dq=the+essence+of+budo&source=bl&ots=aoR3uN2MKB&sig=cf8BulG3f7_czs1Br1OkorjtKhk&hl=es&ei=nn0rTbj8MYiVOuP-0b8C&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CBgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

but who is right?

Demetrio Cereijo
01-10-2011, 03:52 PM
Define "right".

guest1234567
01-10-2011, 03:56 PM
right (rt)
adj. right·er, right·est
1. Conforming with or conformable to justice, law, or morality: do the right thing and confess.
2. In accordance with fact, reason, or truth; correct: the right answer.
3. Fitting, proper, or appropriate: It is not right to leave the party without saying goodbye.
4. Most favorable, desirable, or convenient: the right time to act.
5. In or into a satisfactory state or condition: put things right.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/right

Demetrio Cereijo
01-11-2011, 06:12 AM
I think Lowry, when he says that the "code" of bushido as presented by Nitobe is "a romantic, almost absurdly idealized treatment of the warrior caste" is in accordance with fact, reason and/or truth for his statement concurs with the findings and opinins of Japan history scholars, both western and japanese, like G. Cameron Hurst III, Karl Friday, Furukawa Tetsufumi, Kamei Shunsuke or Ōta Yūzo.

guest1234567
01-11-2011, 07:01 AM
I think Lowry, when he says that the "code" of bushido as presented by Nitobe is "a romantic, almost absurdly idealized treatment of the warrior caste" is in accordance with fact, reason and/or truth for his statement concurs with the findings and opinins of Japan history scholars, both western and japanese, like G. Cameron Hurst III, Karl Friday, Furukawa Tetsufumi, Kamei Shunsuke or Ōta Yūzo.

Thanks Demetrio..
Ok then the bushido code of Nitobe is idealized. But Saotome gives the almost same meaning to the seven pleats of the hakama..
But I think it is useful for every budoka at least to think about the seven virtues, after that.. everyone decides how he will behave himself. But in my humble experience it is always better for oneself to live with that virtues than without them..or against them

lbb
01-11-2011, 08:07 AM
Too many verbs in that sentence, Demetrio!

lbb
01-11-2011, 08:14 AM
But I think it is useful for every budoka at least to think about the seven virtues, after that.. everyone decides how he will behave himself. But in my humble experience it is always better for oneself to live with that virtues than without them..or against them

Eh. The problem that I always have with stuff like this is the "magic number" aspect. Let's have seven virtues, right, because seven is such a cool number! Then, after a while, people refer to them as the seven virtues, just as you've done above...as if there were no other virtues worth considering. Well, how about forbearance or restraint? How about abstinence? How about frugality, hard work or patience?

Keith Larman
01-11-2011, 08:18 AM
The 16 rules... :)

All I really need to know about how to live and what to do and how to be I learned in kindergarten. Wisdom was not at the top of the graduate school mountain, but there in the sand pile at school.

These are the things I learned:

Share everything.

Play fair.

Don't hit people.

Put things back where you found them.

Clean up your own mess.

Don't take things that aren't yours.

Say you're sorry when you hurt somebody.

Wash your hands before you eat.

Flush.

Warm cookies and cold milk are good for you.

Live a balanced life - learn some and think some and draw and paint and sing and dance and play and work every day some.

Take a nap every afternoon.

When you go out in the world, watch out for traffic, hold hands and stick together.

Be aware of wonder. Remember the little seed in the Styrofoam cup: the roots go down and the plant goes up and nobody really knows how or why, but we are all like that.

Goldfish and hamsters and white mice and even the little seed in the Styrofoam cup - they all die. So do we.

And then remember the Dick-and-Jane books and the first word you learned - the biggest word of all - LOOK.

Shamelessly stolen from Robert Fulghum.

Or there was always the One Rule. Behave. Compliments of my mom.

guest1234567
01-11-2011, 08:23 AM
Eh. The problem that I always have with stuff like this is the "magic number" aspect. Let's have seven virtues, right, because seven is such a cool number! Then, after a while, people refer to them as the seven virtues, just as you've done above...as if there were no other virtues worth considering. Well, how about forbearance or restraint? How about abstinence? How about frugality, hard work or patience?

Mary sometimes there are 5 virtues sometimes 10 or 12, so it was not always 7. As you like..

Demetrio Cereijo
01-11-2011, 08:27 AM
Thanks Demetrio..
Ok then the bushido code of Nitobe is idealized. But Saotome gives the almost same meaning to the seven pleats of the hakama..
IIRC Saotome Sensei was quoting O Sensei, maybe he was talking on a spiritual level, you know, the level where mundane knowledge does not apply.

But I think it is useful for every budoka at least to think about the seven virtues, after that.. everyone decides how he will behave himself. But in my humble experience it is always better for oneself to live with that virtues than without them..or against them
Why these virtues and not others? Aristotelian, Christian, Buddhist... we'll end wearing schoolgirl skirts instead of hakama.

@Mary
Too many verbs in that sentence, Demetrio!
Ooops!, sorry. My bad.

guest1234567
01-11-2011, 08:30 AM
IIRC Saotome Sensei was quoting O Sensei, maybe he was talking on a spiritual level, you know, the level where mundane knowledge does not apply.

Why these virtues and not others? Aristotelian, Christian, Buddhist... we'll end wearing schoolgirl skirts instead of hakama.

.
Every virtue you like choose one:)
But the thread is about this 7 virtues...

Demetrio Cereijo
01-11-2011, 09:41 AM
But the thread is about this 7 virtues...
Yes, and I wonder if people consider these virtues valuable by themselves* or if the value is given because they were spoused by Japan's warrior class (which is probably not true) and what it implies.

*and we all know what was the effect of adopting these virtues.

ewolput
01-11-2011, 10:18 AM
Many years ago, someone came from a mountain and he had a stone with 10 commands. It took me more than 50yrs to get rid of the guilty feelings. ... And now someone is coming with 7 virtues;;;;;how many years it wil take to get rid of the guilty feelings of these 7 virtues.

They are in front of me, because one of my students made a calligraphie of it.
I will try to accept but it will not disturb my aikido training :-)

Tony Wagstaffe
01-11-2011, 11:25 AM
Many years ago, someone came from a mountain and he had a stone with 10 commands. It took me more than 50yrs to get rid of the guilty feelings. ... And now someone is coming with 7 virtues;;;;;how many years it wil take to get rid of the guilty feelings of these 7 virtues.

They are in front of me, because one of my students made a calligraphie of it.
I will try to accept but it will not disturb my aikido training :-)

I like that Eddy...... freedom at last....... :D

phitruong
01-11-2011, 12:19 PM
Many years ago, someone came from a mountain and he had a stone with 10 commands. It took me more than 50yrs to get rid of the guilty feelings. ...

eddy, you miscounted. it was 15...ok 10. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TAtRCJIqnk

waiting for mel on the 7th. :D

guest1234567
01-11-2011, 12:31 PM
Yes, and I wonder if people consider these virtues valuable by themselves* or if the value is given because they were spoused by Japan's warrior class (which is probably not true) and what it implies.

*and we all know what was the effect of adopting these virtues.

Demetrio I can only speak for me and our group, we are a nice community and we sure value the virtues by themselves, we do not see us as samurais or anything alike. But you should know by now if you met Manuel Angel in his holidays, I wonder if he is back today.

Demetrio Cereijo
01-11-2011, 12:44 PM
I didn't met him. My work schedule doesn't allow me to train.

guest1234567
01-11-2011, 12:48 PM
Oh I'm sorry, maybe you can train again in the next months

graham christian
01-11-2011, 06:57 PM
We all know the 7 virtues of Budo, represented by the 7 pleats of the hakama.

Virtues:
Jin: benevolence
Gi: honor or justice
Rei: etiquette or politeness
Chi: wisdom
Shin: sincerity
Chu: loyalty
Koh: piety or humanity

I have a personal belief that all these virtues are invaluable "soft skills" in life. While I'm not perfect and fall short of much, I believe that values like these are a good foundation for living a successful and full life. While at times I've been short or rude with people I understand the importance of the virtue Rei. etc. etc.

While I respect these virtues, there might be others who disregard them for whatever reason.
What are your views?

Hi Maggie. Ineresting thread. I didn't know the seven virtues of budo and neither did I know the seven pleats of the Hakama represent them and so on doing a little research found more interesting facts, even how O'Sensei insisted on everyone wearing an Hakama. So thank you for that.

As to views on it, it did get me thinking. I think most people in this world admire those and more in people who follow them. It reminds me of a Jet Li film called 'Hero' ( I think) where there is the arch enemy bad guy japanese and there is also a samurai who is a bit old school. The samurai displays all these virtues and thus is not only an admirable charachter in the movie but also someone others can look up to and hold as a role model.

Although this is a movie I think it applies just the same in life and martial arts and sport etc. In fact I would say that O'Sensei being honoured by that title has as much to do with his continued adherence to those virtues as it has to do with his martal skill.

People at the top of all sports and martial arts etc. who adhere to these and other virtues are admired and even revered far more than the arrogant ones.

I call all negative attitudes like belittling, mocking etc. the way of the lazy mind. Anyone can do it, it's easy. It lacks all of the above.

Regards. G.

Tony Wagstaffe
01-11-2011, 07:10 PM
:confused:

Cor blimey...... that bolt of lightning just missed me. Must be my taisabaki........:eek: :rolleyes:

Tony Wagstaffe
01-12-2011, 03:16 AM
I call all negative attitudes like belittling, mocking etc. the way of the lazy mind. Anyone can do it, it's easy. It lacks all of the above.

Yes Graham.......:rolleyes:

Going by your videos we still haven't seen any randori yet....
Looks more like an afternoon "anyone for tea?" social club.....:D

Hellis
01-12-2011, 03:30 AM
You !! Mr Tony, """ have the way of the lazy mind"""
Don't forget the chocolate digestive buscuits :-)

Henry Ellis
http://aikidoarticles.blogspot.com/

sorokod
01-12-2011, 03:57 AM
Graham

More information available in these forums, you can search for example for "7 seven virtues of Budo"

I didn't know the seven virtues of budo ...

I find this strange given this post http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showpost.php?p=267733&postcount=2 . As to "Hero", which character is the "samurai" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero_(2002_film) ? Given the the plot having a samurai in it would be a major anachronism.

thanks

ewolput
01-12-2011, 04:13 AM
One of my sensei teached me only "one" thing. Free yourself of that bag on your back full of waste, don't become a robot. Only when you are free, you will become a true martial artist;
Once I asked him, sensei how many ways to do oshi taoshi (ikkyo in aikikai). He said : I don't know, its depend on what is happening.
Depending on many rules will make a robot of you and it kills your creativity.
I respect very much my sensei, but my aikido is mine and is different from his aikido. And his aikido is different from Ueshiba's aikido, and he was a direct student!
The 7 virtues are interesting items but they cannot replace the virtues which my parents teached me.

Right?
No left, .... right.
I said left and not right... right

something like that by John Cleese:D

SeiserL
01-12-2011, 07:17 AM
IMHO, we all already know the right things to do, just do them.

Its not virtue, just common sense.

graham christian
01-12-2011, 10:42 AM
Graham

More information available in these forums, you can search for example for "7 seven virtues of Budo"

I find this strange given this post http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showpost.php?p=267733&postcount=2 . As to "Hero", which character is the "samurai" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero_(2002_film) ? Given the the plot having a samurai in it would be a major anachronism.

thanks

Hi David. Please excuse my ignorance. I had read that post and seen the explanation of takemusu leading to seven virtues but hadn't seen it as the seven virtues of budo. Perhaps I should have noted more carefully the next line which said it can be found in bushido.
Secondly you are right again, I have named the wrong film, the one with the samurai who is also a karate master is called I believe the fist of legend.

Regards.G.

Krystal Locke
01-12-2011, 12:10 PM
It's just an idle roomer, Mary :-)

Oh shit, I'm out of practice. Rent! Torn hak, tenant, rent! There's one RIGHT THERE, and I can't find it!

I bow to my master. You have truly gone before.

Tony Wagstaffe
01-12-2011, 01:16 PM
You !! Mr Tony, """ have the way of the lazy mind"""
Don't forget the chocolate digestive buscuits :-)

Henry Ellis
http://aikidoarticles.blogspot.com/

The ones with nuts in? Or the plain Sensei?

Budogirl
01-24-2011, 11:33 PM
Is it possible that westerners are being played for suckers?

just askin...:cool: