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Budogirl
01-09-2011, 09:41 PM
Interested to know how do Aikidoka define Tsugi Ashi. doing a bit of reading and such on this particular foot movement. Got varying perspectives.

I'm quite interested in what the practical thoughts of varied aikidoka are...

I think of it as a sliding foot movement, where the foot leading the direction one wishes to move in begins the movement. For example forward movement, means forward foot slides forward. backward movement means rear foot slides backward to be followed by the forward foot. In both instances, the foot which follows never moves ahead of the leading foot.

I've also read something that says it is a foot movement with a goal to keep the maai between the uke and nage constant (not necessarily a sliding foot movement)..

would like to know what you all think.

sakumeikan
01-10-2011, 10:48 AM
Interested to know how do Aikidoka define Tsugi Ashi. doing a bit of reading and such on this particular foot movement. Got varying perspectives.

I'm quite interested in what the practical thoughts of varied aikidoka are...

I think of it as a sliding foot movement, where the foot leading the direction one wishes to move in begins the movement. For example forward movement, means forward foot slides forward. backward movement means rear foot slides backward to be followed by the forward foot. In both instances, the foot which follows never moves ahead of the leading foot.

I've also read something that says it is a foot movement with a goal to keep the maai between the uke and nage constant (not necessarily a sliding foot movement)..

would like to know what you all think.
Hi,
Tsugi ashi- if left /right foot is leading ,the opposite foot keeps behind leading foot.To advance push with back foot , sliding lead foot .To retreat [move backward] push with front [leading foot]
and slide rear foot to rear.As far as it being a sliding footwork , yes it should be so. Tsugi ashi foot work is also used in Bokken suburi [cutting forward [advancing ] linked with cutting while retreating] ie a double shomen movement .
Cheers, Joe

Tony Wagstaffe
01-10-2011, 02:51 PM
Going along the lines that Japanese culture has a farming tradition that goes way back when, would suggest that making a furrow in land, much the same way as ploughing, would need tools that chop into the earth.
So moving forward foot by foot would seem to me a reason to how the sword and all other implements of farming and weaponry would have it's basic movement in tsugi ashi....
Just a thought, but I may be wrong.....

ramenboy
01-10-2011, 03:37 PM
Hi,
Tsugi ashi- if left /right foot is leading ,the opposite foot keeps behind leading foot.To advance push with back foot , sliding lead foot .To retreat [move backward] push with front [leading foot]
and slide rear foot to rear.As far as it being a sliding footwork , yes it should be so. Tsugi ashi foot work is also used in Bokken suburi [cutting forward [advancing ] linked with cutting while retreating] ie a double shomen movement .
Cheers, Joe

i was about to say the same thing, joe. not so much dragging the rear foot behind the front, but pushing the body forward.

more efficient.

sakumeikan
01-10-2011, 04:22 PM
Going along the lines that Japanese culture has a farming tradition that goes way back when, would suggest that making a furrow in land, much the same way as ploughing, would need tools that chop into the earth.
So moving forward foot by foot would seem to me a reason to how the sword and all other implements of farming and weaponry would have it's basic movement in tsugi ashi....
Just a thought, but I may be wrong.....

Tony,
You are correct here.Joe

Budogirl
01-10-2011, 04:23 PM
Thanks guys. Any comments on maintaining Maai between the nage and the uke? (with respect to Tsugi Ashi, of course)

:D

Tony Wagstaffe
01-10-2011, 07:07 PM
Thanks guys. Any comments on maintaining Maai between the nage and the uke? (with respect to Tsugi Ashi, of course)

:D

The bigger/longer the weapon the bigger the mai....... Using tsugi ashi (rapidly) to move in (Irimi) after avoiding/parrying strike from such weapon, which could be bare hands,elbows, knees, feet, jo, bokken , spear (yari), tanto or anything else you can lay your hands on........ ;) :) :D

sakumeikan
01-11-2011, 01:02 PM
i was about to say the same thing, joe. not so much dragging the rear foot behind the front, but pushing the body forward.

more efficient.
Jerome,
Dont forget you also push the body to the rear.
Cheers, Joe.

Tony Wagstaffe
01-11-2011, 01:58 PM
Jerome,
Dont forget you also push the body to the rear.
Cheers, Joe.

And most any other direction to.....;)

Cliff Judge
01-11-2011, 03:47 PM
Going along the lines that Japanese culture has a farming tradition that goes way back when, would suggest that making a furrow in land, much the same way as ploughing, would need tools that chop into the earth.
So moving forward foot by foot would seem to me a reason to how the sword and all other implements of farming and weaponry would have it's basic movement in tsugi ashi....
Just a thought, but I may be wrong.....

Did you mean to say that the sword is a farm implement? Because it isn't. As far as the sword goes, the extent to which life in the fields informs its basic movements is probably rather minor.

Tony Wagstaffe
01-11-2011, 06:27 PM
Did you mean to say that the sword is a farm implement? Because it isn't. As far as the sword goes, the extent to which life in the fields informs its basic movements is probably rather minor.

No, not quite the same, but the basics are ingrained from the action in its self....
Another example is using an axe to to chop up wood. Almost similar to shomen uchi/giri in the sword.... the grip, the focus of the action physically..?
Swinging a sledge hammer has similarities....

ramenboy
01-11-2011, 08:39 PM
Jerome,
Dont forget you also push the body to the rear.
Cheers, Joe.

:cool:

odudog
01-11-2011, 09:19 PM
Interested to know how do Aikidoka define Tsugi Ashi. doing a bit of reading and such on this particular foot movement. Got varying perspectives.

I'm quite interested in what the practical thoughts of varied aikidoka are...

I think of it as a sliding foot movement, where the foot leading the direction one wishes to move in begins the movement. For example forward movement, means forward foot slides forward. backward movement means rear foot slides backward to be followed by the forward foot. In both instances, the foot which follows never moves ahead of the leading foot.

I've also read something that says it is a foot movement with a goal to keep the maai between the uke and nage constant (not necessarily a sliding foot movement)..

would like to know what you all think.

What you have described is not tsugi ashi, instead it is okuri ashi.

tsugi ashi : with your left foot in front, move your right foot forward first but not going past the left foot, then finally move the left foot forward.

Budogirl
01-12-2011, 01:08 AM
What you have described is not tsugi ashi, instead it is okuri ashi.

tsugi ashi : with your left foot in front, move your right foot forward first but not going past the left foot, then finally move the left foot forward.

No - i did not describe Okuri Ashi. I did not state that either foot moves in front of the other, which occurs in okuri ashi.

from aikido journal: Literally, "following steps." Refers to a sliding foot movement either forward or backward which permits smooth movements while allowing one's balance to be maintained.

http://www.aikidojournal.com/encyclopedia?entryID=714.

Josh Reyer
01-12-2011, 03:18 AM
No - i did not describe Okuri Ashi. I did not state that either foot moves in front of the other, which occurs in okuri ashi.

from aikido journal: Literally, "following steps." Refers to a sliding foot movement either forward or backward which permits smooth movements while allowing one's balance to be maintained.

http://www.aikidojournal.com/encyclopedia?entryID=714.
Actually, in all the examples I've seen of okuri-ashi, neither foot crosses in front of the other.

Generally, in tsugi-ashi, the back foot moves up to just behind the front foot, and then the front foot moves forward. In okuri-ashi, the front foot moves first, and then the back foot is drawn up.

I believe odudog's point was that in your initial description, it sounds like you have the leading foot moving first followed by the following foot. That's not tsugi-ashi, that's okuri-ashi.

If you go to this page (http://www.aikido.ne.jp/sec01_0203.html), you can see Flash animation examples of okuri-ashi and tsugi-ashi.

Scroll down to 送り足 for okuri-ashi; 継ぎ足 tsugi-ashi is the one below that. The one below that is tsugi-ashi with big strides. Click on 進む to start the animations.

Budogirl
01-12-2011, 11:51 AM
Actually, in all the examples I've seen of okuri-ashi, neither foot crosses in front of the other.

Generally, in tsugi-ashi, the back foot moves up to just behind the front foot, and then the front foot moves forward. In okuri-ashi, the front foot moves first, and then the back foot is drawn up.

I believe odudog's point was that in your initial description, it sounds like you have the leading foot moving first followed by the following foot. That's not tsugi-ashi, that's okuri-ashi.

If you go to this page (http://www.aikido.ne.jp/sec01_0203.html), you can see Flash animation examples of okuri-ashi and tsugi-ashi.

Scroll down to 送り足 for okuri-ashi; 継ぎ足 tsugi-ashi is the one below that. The one below that is tsugi-ashi with big strides. Click on 進む to start the animations.

Thanks, I will check it out. The examples that I saw of tsgui ashi were not as you've described. But, I guess that's why I asked the question :)

Budogirl
01-12-2011, 11:54 AM
Actually, in all the examples I've seen of okuri-ashi, neither foot crosses in front of the other.

Generally, in tsugi-ashi, the back foot moves up to just behind the front foot, and then the front foot moves forward. In okuri-ashi, the front foot moves first, and then the back foot is drawn up.

I believe odudog's point was that in your initial description, it sounds like you have the leading foot moving first followed by the following foot. That's not tsugi-ashi, that's okuri-ashi.

If you go to this page (http://www.aikido.ne.jp/sec01_0203.html), you can see Flash animation examples of okuri-ashi and tsugi-ashi.

Scroll down to 送り足 for okuri-ashi; 継ぎ足 tsugi-ashi is the one below that. The one below that is tsugi-ashi with big strides. Click on 進む to start the animations.

Check this out:
http://books.google.com/books?id=ZEpRwm7UmY8C&pg=PA26&lpg=PA26&dq=example+of+tsugi+ashi&source=bl&ots=ZjD9Y97LNW&sig=2dAI_T5IhIOiYqLQVX9Um_rWxUg&hl=en&ei=buotTdT2HoK0lQfUuciFDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CCEQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=example%20of%20tsugi%20ashi&f=false

Budogirl
01-13-2011, 01:55 AM
Ok - I've been all around the mulberry bush with this...some say it's as I defined it (from reading other references), others say it's as Josh described it.

Sooo, I say the heck with it. I'm going back to just training. Maybe I'l figure it out one day, maybe not. The proper footwork will show itself one way or the other....

Thanks people!:cool: ;)

ramenboy
01-15-2011, 02:38 PM
...I say the heck with it. I'm going back to just training. Maybe I'l figure it out one day, maybe not. The proper footwork will show itself one way or the other....

Thanks people!:cool: ;)

that's a perfect approach, dena! :)