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Arianah
05-20-2002, 09:33 PM
Curious:
Which styles of Aikido are not derived from Ueshiba Morihei? I think that Nihon Goshen is one, but there are others. Just wondering what they are, and where they come from, i.e. who founded them, if not O'Sensei.

Sarah :ai:

Edward
05-20-2002, 11:06 PM
They can call themselves whatever they like, but the truth is, if there is no lineage to Osensei, then it's not aikido.

batemanb
05-21-2002, 12:10 AM
Originally posted by Edward
They can call themselves whatever they like, but the truth is, if there is no lineage to Osensei, then it's not aikido.

I`d like to think so, but I am not so sure about that. I read this last week on e-budo:

I know many of you may wish to throw me to the flames,
but why should the Ueshiba family have the generic term "aikido"?

The term was nor invented by Ueshiba,
it was coined in the "Dai-Nihon-Butokukai"
as a generic name for various MA : Ju-Jitsu, Aiki-Jitsu and Yawara

Ueshiba took the name just like anybody else can take it today,
while he did spread a MA system and philosophy under the name,
He didn't invent it


I don`t know how true this is, but it would certainly lend credibility to any art being called Aikido without lineage to O Sensei.

Edward
05-21-2002, 01:24 AM
As I said this is a free democratic world and anyone can call his MA aikido or any other name. However, same as no body contests the creation of judo to Pr. Jigoro Kano eventhough it is clear that it was derived from jujitsu, no one denies that aikido originally came from daitoryu aikijujitsu, but it was transformed by Osensei and renamed aikibudo and then aikido.

There are some other styles originating in aikijujitsu who capitalize on the international success of aikido and usurpe the name.

Chris Li
05-21-2002, 03:39 AM
Originally posted by Edward
As I said this is a free democratic world and anyone can call his MA aikido or any other name. However, same as no body contests the creation of judo to Pr. Jigoro Kano eventhough it is clear that it was derived from jujitsu, no one denies that aikido originally came from daitoryu aikijujitsu, but it was transformed by Osensei and renamed aikibudo and then aikido.

There are some other styles originating in aikijujitsu who capitalize on the international success of aikido and usurpe the name.

Bryan's absolutely correct. The name "Aikido" was a generic name proposed in the Butokukai intended to cover a number of arts. Check out the guy who engineered all that at http://www.aikidojournal.com/articles/_article.asp?ArticleID=738

It may be that nobody you know denies that M. Ueshiba has the absolute right to the name Aikido, but that doesn't necessarily make it so. I've seen a number of items that suggest that Shodo Morita, at least, was using that name prior to 1942, which would give him prior use. Other arts use the name as well in various capacities. M. Ueshiba's school is certainly the most common user of the name, but that's pretty much as far as it goes, as much as I can tell.

Best,

Chris

Peter Boylan
05-24-2002, 06:59 PM
<B>As I said this is a free democratic world and anyone can call his MA aikido or any other name. However, same as no body contests the creation of judo to Pr. Jigoro Kano eventhough it is clear that it was derived from jujitsu, no one denies that aikido originally came from daitoryu aikijujitsu, but it was transformed by Osensei and renamed aikibudo and then aikido</B>

Actually, no one in Japan contests the fact that Kaon Shihan did NOT invent the term judo." It had been used by several other jujutsu ryuha prior to Kano's use of the term, and in fact, he took it from one of the jujutsu ryuha he studied. His second teaching kyojo is from "Kito Ryu Judo."

Peter Boylan
Mugendo Budogu LLC
Martials Arts Books, Videos and Equipment from Japan
http://www.budogu.com

Kami
05-25-2002, 04:01 AM
Hello!

Chris and Peter are absolutely correct. AIKIDO was a name proposed by the Dai Nippon Butokukai for all arts "aiki" and accepted by
MINORU HIRAI Sensei, Ueshiba's representative at the Butokukai. It was available for use by many arts. The same applies to Aikijujutsu that can be used by many people. I believe also that the name KODOKAN wasn't created by Kano either. If I remember correctly, it was the name of a Temple and it was used by Kano to indicate his style of jujutsu (judo).
On the other side, if we say YOSHINKAI AIKIDO, TOMIKI AIKIDO, SHINSHIN TOITSU AIKIDO or DAITO RYU AIKIJUJUTSU, we are specifying a system or a method which belongs to a style of Aikido. If I have no link with those styles, I can't rightfully claim that I do Yoshinkai, Tomiki, ShinShin Toitsu or DAITO RYU Aikijujutsu...
Best :ai:

computerdog
06-04-2002, 10:10 AM
I just love that article you referend to. That is actually the same as saying:'Damn, why did I not think of that?!?':p
I like it.
O'sensei said that there is no style or form in Aikido. Aikido is nature itself.
I hope I do not meat the person who invented nature too soon
:eek: ;)