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PEC
12-31-2010, 11:48 AM
Hi, here's a small clip from a recent demo our dojo did in our town.
I'm the guy with the beard :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ct9gdglH5fs

Criticism is welcome.

For more info about our dojo: http://www.taae.es (http://www.taae.es/escuelas-dojos/florida-gym)

jbblack
12-31-2010, 05:14 PM
Thanks for posting. Just a small point, I would not throw the jo onto the mat. Cheers, Jeff

Lyle Laizure
12-31-2010, 08:51 PM
I was taught and teach that you do not give a weapon back to your attacker.

mickeygelum
12-31-2010, 09:36 PM
I was taught and teach that you do not give a weapon back to your attacker

It is a demo...What are they suppose to do?:confused:
Then assuming your statement is accurate, you were never shown how to properly return the weapon to your uke or nage, depending on your role.

Just a small point, I would not throw the jo onto the mat
I also agree that throwing the weapon down is wrong.

Train well ,

Mickey

niall
12-31-2010, 11:18 PM
Happy new year, Pablo. I thought you both were excellent. A couple of technical points to think about.

As tori don't try to catch the weapon too soon (3rd technique and once or twice after that). It's the same principle as in taijutsu. For example in kotegaeshi against a tsuki attack you don't try to catch the wrist. If you control the whole arm your hand will slide naturally and easily on to the wrist.

As uke I felt that you were sometimes releasing your grip on the jo too early (in some of the zenpo nage throws). When you hold a weapon it's a good idea to try to keep it for as long as possible.

But very nice job and thanks for sharing it. And you can always ask your teacher for criticism.

Niall

Eric Winters
12-31-2010, 11:29 PM
Hello,

I have got to say that was horrible weapons etiquette. The techniques were OK but a lot of upperbody, shoulder strength and not enough hips (which to be fair I can get a little that way sometimes as well). Also when the attacker is in tsuki kamae, bring the rear hand further back to the rear hip.

Best,

Eric Winters

Chris Li
01-01-2011, 12:24 AM
I have got to say that was horrible weapons etiquette.

Weapons etiquette varies greatly from place to place - what's horrible in one place is common in another.

Best,

Chris

Carsten Möllering
01-01-2011, 04:13 AM
Weapons etiquette varies greatly from place to place - what's horrible in one place is common in another.
Yes.

Throwing the weapon onto the mat or giving it back to the attacker is not an issue. It's just a feature of a given line of tradition.

I one dojo you learn "you must not throw the weapon down and you have to give it back in a safe way ". (Which is what I learned.)
In another dojo you learn "you must not give back the attacking weapon for another attack. And you must not hold the weapon which is carrying the spirit of the attacker longer then needed". (I think this is mostly taught in the line of Saito sensei?)

When I practiced for the first time in a dojo of Takemusu aiki and handed back the sword to the attacker as I learned it, I nearly caused a little "turmoil". ;)

sorokod
01-01-2011, 06:25 AM
Regarding the etiquette, I have seen both approaches demonstrated by senior people within the Iwama tradition.

Maybe when doing a sequence of techniques, each ending with a strike to the head of the attacker, one does not want to break the flow and "step out of character" so to speak.

sorokod
01-01-2011, 08:39 AM
An example with tachi dori from Paolo Corallini Shihan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nmr2wi0Vfk

PEC
01-01-2011, 10:25 AM
Thanks for all the comments! Very much appreciated.
Eric, I agree with the "too much shoulder strength" remark. I'll keep training with that in mind.
Niall, happy new year! Yes, you're right about catching the weapon too soon. I'll try to correct that.

Regarding etiquette, we follow Iwama style under Paolo Corallini Shihan, and throwing the weapon to the mat is the way we were taught to return it for another attack.

PEC
01-01-2011, 11:24 AM
As uke I felt that you were sometimes releasing your grip on the jo too early (in some of the zenpo nage throws). When you hold a weapon it's a good idea to try to keep it for as long as possible.


Yes, I see. I didn't feel too confident on some of the throws because I have a torn labrum on one shoulder, and sometimes it hurts, so I hurry the ukemi to avoid pain... my bad. Thanks again!

Of course I asked my teacher too, but I liked the idea of reading comments from outsiders :)

Eric Winters
01-01-2011, 01:25 PM
Hello,

The comments about the weapons etiquette are correct. I guess it depends were you train. I train with Pat Hendricks Sensei in the Iwama tradition as well and we were told to either put the weapon down away from the attacker and walk away while they retrieve it or give it back carefully. Sorry I was harsh but at Hendrick's sensei's dojo I would have been chastised for throwing a weapon down.

Best,

Eric

P.S. HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE!

Keith Larman
01-01-2011, 02:25 PM
Just to toss in a different perspective.

As a craftsman who handles honest to god real swords all day long the very notion of tossing a bokken down to the ground is almost incomprehensible to me. It was always drummed into me that the bokken is a representation of a real sword. Would you do that with a sword that was likely more than what most people in old Japan would make in years (ignoring so-called kazu-uchi mono blades)?

I understand that different traditions do different things. But combine the status of the Japanese sword as one of the "three sacred treasures of Japan" along with the careless and senseless damage a mount and/or blade may take by being tossed away, well, it really does just make the hairs on the back of my neck stand up. I do get tradition, and I general zip up my lips when I see something like that. But ...

Anyway... Just my perspective from the cheap seats.

P.S. Added later... Yes, I do understand we're talking about a jo here. But most weapon's etiquette is usually fairly consistent across the board. And I've seen similar tossing of the weapon during demonstrations with bokken.

Keith Larman
01-01-2011, 02:31 PM
Oh, and fwiw... I saw a demo once (don't know who they were) where the aikidoka bowed and took a bokken from someone else in a purely formal way one would normally take a sword. The etiquette evolved from respect for the sword as well as an understanding of how dangerous they were and how easily a mount could be damaged. The fella then proceeded to use the bokken like it was a large stick, grabbing the blade in ways that would have given him the nickname "stumpy" if it had been real. He also did some take-aways where he'd toss the bokken away once he was finished. Struck me as fantastically inconsistent -- taking the bokken initially with all the etiquette and respect normally seen with a real blade then doing all sorts of things with it totally ignoring those very things.

Again... Just my perspective. Your mileage may vary.

I.e., thinking of threads about traditions and transmission here we have someone keeping certain aspects of the tradition but discarding others apparently (to my understanding) inconsistently.

Walter Martindale
01-01-2011, 06:39 PM
Yep, different dojo/lineage, different ways. One dojo I've been at, you return the sword (bokken) to someone so that you indicate your trust - by handing it to them with the handle to your left (partner's right) with the edge toward you. If you trust them, you give them the blade so they could use it. If you don't trust them you don't give them the blade/bokken.

At another dojo you do a bit of zanshin move toward them so they need to back up, then put the bokken, jo, or tanto, down, blade to outside, handle away (well, not with a jo...) and away from partner so you walk away from it and he/she has to go around to get it.

At another dojo practice was such that if you put the jo down too quickly or too close to uke, it was up and at you right away because you've left the weapon too easily available. Similarly you (where I've trained) don't make uke drop the weapon without you collecting it right away, because you don't want uke's friends collecting it up....

That demo was the first I'd seen where anyone tosses the weapon back toward uke, but if that's the way the training has been, that's the way it's done...

When in Himeji, do as the Himejians do.... :)

Oh - yes - One of the sensei with whom I've trained said that my Jo-Tachi-Tanto-dori was a bit rough and nasty - but that it was OK to be a bit rough and nasty with weapon-tori, because the person had attacked with a weapon and deserved what he got. (note, yes, a bit rough, but nobody got injured)....

Cheers and Happy New Year all.
Shogatsu Omedeto Gozaimasu.
Walter

Abasan
01-02-2011, 02:38 AM
I think uke needs to have a little bit more zanshin... getting up before nage allowed him to is kinda dangerous.

Carsten Möllering
01-02-2011, 09:27 AM
... Would you do that with a sword that was likely more than what most people in old Japan would make in years (ignoring so-called kazu-uchi mono blades)?

I understand that different traditions do different things. But combine the status of the Japanese sword as one of the "three sacred treasures of Japan" along with the careless and senseless damage a mount and/or blade may take by being tossed away, ...
Well that where some of my thoughts when I experienced this etiquette for the first time.
When I asked the teacher of that dojo he told me that we talk about the sword of the enemy. It carries his spirit and should not be touched longer than necessary. And it would/should not be handled with the same respect like the own sword.

And I have to damit: I don't know how the sword of the enemy was treated in "old japan"?

Demetrio Cereijo
01-02-2011, 07:19 PM
but I liked the idea of reading comments from outsiders :)
:D :D :D

Flintstone
01-02-2011, 07:24 PM
Did I see Venan in that clip ;) ?

Demetrio Cereijo
01-02-2011, 07:30 PM
Yes, third counting from left.

Flintstone
01-02-2011, 08:05 PM
Yes, third counting from left.
Knew it :D :D :D

Dieter Haffner
01-03-2011, 07:42 AM
If I may add something new to the discussion.

There seems to be a little hick-up in the movement of tori.
When tori steps out of the line of attack and makes contact with the jo or uke, there seems to be a little pauze. Upon which tori continues the technique.
I would prefer to see the waza in one fluent motion.

But I guess it has something to do with the Himejians as well. :)

PEC
01-03-2011, 08:20 AM
But I guess it has something to do with the Himejians as well. :)

Oh, maybe it's just that we're beginners :) We're not even shodan, so in a few years we may get it right :)
I recognize that when I watch the clip, we need a smoother flow in the techniques; you are completely correct, sir. Thanks.

Demetrio Cereijo
01-03-2011, 08:26 AM
Oh, maybe it's just that we're beginners :) We're not even shodan, so in a few years we may get it right :)

You lack chi.
:D

NagaBaba
01-03-2011, 08:47 AM
If I may add something new to the discussion.

There seems to be a little hick-up in the movement of tori.
When tori steps out of the line of attack and makes contact with the jo or uke, there seems to be a little pauze. Upon which tori continues the technique.
I would prefer to see the waza in one fluent motion.

But I guess it has something to do with the Himejians as well. :)
Yes this is good observation. Some aikido styles do weapons in Start-Stop method, and the result is a real disaster.
Generally the techniques on this video have very low quality. The level is maximum 5th kyu and not black belt.
Some points from very rudimentary, physical point of view:
Both students are very stiff.
Attacks have not martial intent.
Balance of attacker is not taken in the moment of contact.
Nage is not interested to attack the center of uke but instead is concentrated in the jo catching and later waving jo as attacker doesn't exist.
There is no connection between both students, everybody plays his role separately.
Nage is not doing any locks seriously, so there is no question about even minimum effectiveness(as it can be obtained in dojo context ). Nage would never be able to take jo out of attacker if attacker decide to hold(I'm not even talking here about any serious counter) it for real.
The leading principle doesn't exist.
Nage is not controlling attacker at any moment.
..ok I'l not discuss here any more sophisticated no-physical aspects to demonstrate, unless all above point are not mastered there is no point to talk about it.

Cliff Judge
01-03-2011, 08:54 AM
I am having the same kind of gut reaction to the way the jo is returned to uke as many on this thread.

I guess to me, and this is my very humble opinion, it looks uncontrolled and messy. Since your technique looks quite crisp and focused, suddenly releasing the jo to clatter to the mat is particularly out of place.

grondahl
01-03-2011, 09:01 AM
Your initial maai seems a little bit of to me, to far apart which makes the attacks weak.

And uke should not get up before nage lets him. Now he just rolls up to standing despite having a jo more or less in his face.

PEC
01-04-2011, 05:38 AM
Yes this is good observation. Some aikido styles do weapons in Start-Stop method, and the result is a real disaster.
Generally the techniques on this video have very low quality. The level is maximum 5th kyu and not black belt.
Some points from very rudimentary, physical point of view:
Both students are very stiff.
Attacks have not martial intent.
Balance of attacker is not taken in the moment of contact.
Nage is not interested to attack the center of uke but instead is concentrated in the jo catching and later waving jo as attacker doesn't exist.
There is no connection between both students, everybody plays his role separately.
Nage is not doing any locks seriously, so there is no question about even minimum effectiveness(as it can be obtained in dojo context ). Nage would never be able to take jo out of attacker if attacker decide to hold(I'm not even talking here about any serious counter) it for real.
The leading principle doesn't exist.
Nage is not controlling attacker at any moment.
..ok I'l not discuss here any more sophisticated no-physical aspects to demonstrate, unless all above point are not mastered there is no point to talk about it.

Thank you for your comments :)

ChrisHein
01-04-2011, 06:57 PM
Nice clip.

George S. Ledyard
01-05-2011, 04:01 PM
I was taught and teach that you do not give a weapon back to your attacker.

I was taught that you do give it back to them. But if you are going to lay it down, rather than hand it back, then you do so mindfully. Throwing it down is sloppy, is disrespectful of both the opponent and the audience. You never see anything like that in koryu.

PEC
01-12-2011, 06:00 AM
I was taught that you do give it back to them. But if you are going to lay it down, rather than hand it back, then you do so mindfully. Throwing it down is sloppy, is disrespectful of both the opponent and the audience. You never see anything like that in koryu.

Sensei Ledyard, I don't want to be disrespectful (because you are always a gentle person in your posts and a highly skilled Aikido Sensei), but I just want to point out that our dojo was taught this way by Paolo Corallini Shihan, 7th dan Aikikai (he has been promoted this week, congratulations!). Corallini Sensei spent great amounts of time with Saito Sensei who promoted him to 7th dan Takemusu Aiki (Iwama Ryu). Saito Sensei, as Corallini Sensei always tells in his seminars taught him this way also. Saito Sensei spent 23 years with O'Sensei. I don't know, but I have to guess, this is the way that O'Sensei used to train also, or at least, teach Saito Sensei.

I've heard the reasons for doing one way or another, and I sincerely, prefer doing it this way, so is the way our dojo expect us to. I understand that you do not see anything like that in koryu, but Aikido isn't a koryu, so I don't find that a valid argument.

Hope I explained myself clearly :)

Best,

Pablo Estévez

Edit: grammar ;)

Alex Megann
01-12-2011, 06:09 AM
I've never seen anyone throw a jo in this context.

Here is a nice clip of Saito Sensei teaching jo dori. Notice that he hands the jo back to his partner, and does not throw it.

Saito clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3G2wM8wyGQ&feature=related)

Alex

Flintstone
01-12-2011, 02:26 PM
I've never seen anyone throw a jo in this context.

Here is a nice clip of Saito Sensei teaching jo dori. Notice that he hands the jo back to his partner, and does not throw it.

Saito clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3G2wM8wyGQ&feature=related)

Alex
Teaching is not performing. What the OP did in the video is the way it's taught in Iwama and those guys have a pure and pristine lineage straight to the founder.

grondahl
01-12-2011, 03:58 PM
I dont think that I have seen any senior Iwama-style teacher except Corallini throw the weapons like that.

Teaching is not performing. What the OP did in the video is the way it's taught in Iwama and those guys have a pure and pristine lineage straight to the founder.

Carsten Möllering
01-13-2011, 06:01 AM
Patricia Guerri shows it (throwing down the weapon) this way on her buki waza DVD.
And also on youtube ... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2DXhRWExA4);-)

I had never seen that and talked to some german students of Iwama ryu. They are used to this way of handling the weapons also. And they explained to me why.
But I don't know the name of their sensei.

grondahl
01-13-2011, 07:26 AM
Apparently different Iwama-teachers teaches different reigi concerning this.

Lewis de Quiros does not throw the bokken around.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXWIG8Mk6BM

Demetrio Cereijo
01-13-2011, 08:23 AM
Ulf Evenas does both things (0:30-0:44)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhg77RfwJx0

grondahl
01-13-2011, 08:50 AM
I think that there is a difference between the throwing of the weapon that Guerri does (and in the video that started the thread) and what Evenås does, in all demos I have seen with him he bends down and slides the jo away (or gives it directly to uke).

sorokod
01-19-2011, 10:06 AM
Another example where the weapon is 'discarded'. This one is with Saito Morihiro sensei

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJLdvFkuGtI

Demetrio Cereijo
01-19-2011, 10:21 AM
The problem with OP clip is not the weapon being discarded but it seems he throws it with "attitude".

Flintstone
01-19-2011, 11:00 AM
Oh, and everybody knows Aikido es about "loosing attitude".

Demetrio Cereijo
01-19-2011, 11:03 AM
Loosing or losing?

Andrew Macdonald
02-02-2011, 11:16 PM
I am not sure about the weapon thing,

The idea that you shouldn;t give the weapon back to the attacker, while valid is kinda misplaced here since it is not a real situation and besides throwing the weapon down is giving it back to the attacker. sounds a little like some one trying to qualify what they are doing but saying their training is more real. in the very unlikey event that someone attcked me with a jo (maybe pool cue, could happen i guess) and i got it off him. i would be using the weapon on the other guy, or just taking it away with me, throwing it anywhere even behind, means i have lost control of it, and is inviting anyone to pick it up agian

There did seem to be alot of attitude in the nage when he threw the weapon down, I am not sure of that is for the crowds sake or not

above all of this there just didn't seem to be alot of blending with the attck in the clips, the nage grabbed the weapon and then stopped, this kida made a lot of the rest of the technique look forced

Flintstone
02-03-2011, 06:41 AM
The idea that you shouldn;t give the weapon back to the attacker, while valid is kinda misplaced here since it is not a real situation and besides throwing the weapon down is giving it back to the attacker. sounds a little like some one trying to qualify what they are doing but saying their training is more real. in the very unlikey event that someone attcked me with a jo (maybe pool cue, could happen i guess) and i got it off him. i would be using the weapon on the other guy, or just taking it away with me, throwing it anywhere even behind, means i have lost control of it, and is inviting anyone to pick it up agian
The idea is to give it back, so they can continue the training. Obviously. But not in a manner where the attacker can well, attack, immediately.

There did seem to be alot of attitude in the nage when he threw the weapon down, I am not sure of that is for the crowds sake or not
I guess it's just that they are not "experts". As I am not.

above all of this there just didn't seem to be alot of blending with the attck in the clips, the nage grabbed the weapon and then stopped, this kida made a lot of the rest of the technique look forced
Well, this is where the words "kihon" or "gotai" come to my mind.

Flintstone
02-03-2011, 06:43 AM
Loosing or losing?
Or... both?

lbb
02-03-2011, 07:29 AM
I am not sure about the weapon thing,

The idea that you shouldn;t give the weapon back to the attacker, while valid is kinda misplaced here since it is not a real situation and besides throwing the weapon down is giving it back to the attacker.

This is where reishiki comes into play. Reishiki includes (among other things) the protocol from withdrawing at the conclusion of the kata, and also for exchanging weapons when you change roles. I doubt there's a ryu out there in which reishiki includes throwing down the weapon.

Carsten Möllering
02-03-2011, 02:15 PM
I doubt there's a ryu out there in which reishiki includes throwing down the weapon.
Well, as I said before, the members of Iwama ryu I personally know, assured me, that their reishiki does.
And explained me why.

Dan Rubin
02-03-2011, 02:35 PM
I would fear damaging the mat.

lbb
02-03-2011, 08:49 PM
Well, as I said before, the members of Iwama ryu I personally know, assured me, that their reishiki does.
And explained me why.

You said that, but you didn't say what the explanation was.

Carsten Möllering
02-04-2011, 05:25 AM
... you must not give back the attacking weapon for another attack.
And you must not hold the weapon which is carrying the spirit of the attacker longer then needed ...
I think the weapon of an attacker / enemy doesn't deserve any respect due to this understanding. And one just has to get get rid of it.

And I added:
I don't know how the sword of the enemy was treated in "old japan"?
I only know reishiki concerning ones own sword or the sword of a friend.
I don't know any traditional way how to treat the sword of an enemy.
I once heard that you would break the blade?

Autrelle Holland
04-14-2011, 06:27 PM
Great variety in the waza. It depends on the setting as far as throwing the jo. In the video here, I just sort of went with with. This is an unrehearsed demo on a hardwood floor. The black covering is the thin rubber used at dance studios. I prefer to set the jo somewhere so that I am between the jo and uke, and walk in a direction from both of them, so that uke has to reclaim the jo at a safe distance away from me. Like I said, it really depends. In this demo, I wanted to showcase technique without injury, which is hard on a floor with no mats. You'll notice in the randori, there is one part where I had to make a last minute call to sit down on my butt rather than stand erect and throw my uke backwards over my shoulders. Looks like crud, but, safety first.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdK5Iru6j3w

sakumeikan
04-15-2011, 01:43 AM
Yes this is good observation. Some aikido styles do weapons in Start-Stop method, and the result is a real disaster.
Generally the techniques on this video have very low quality. The level is maximum 5th kyu and not black belt.
Some points from very rudimentary, physical point of view:
Both students are very stiff.
Attacks have not martial intent.
Balance of attacker is not taken in the moment of contact.
Nage is not interested to attack the center of uke but instead is concentrated in the jo catching and later waving jo as attacker doesn't exist.
There is no connection between both students, everybody plays his role separately.
Nage is not doing any locks seriously, so there is no question about even minimum effectiveness(as it can be obtained in dojo context ). Nage would never be able to take jo out of attacker if attacker decide to hold(I'm not even talking here about any serious counter) it for real.
The leading principle doesn't exist.
Nage is not controlling attacker at any moment.
..ok I'l not discuss here any more sophisticated no-physical aspects to demonstrate, unless all above point are not mastered there is no point to talk about it.
Hi, Naga Baba,
Did the demonstrators do anything right? It seems to me you focus is on the negative side.Would you not agree that rather than be really critical , perhaps you could give the guys some encouragement.How about you putting a clip of yourself doing the same ? I would like to see what you would do.The lads doing their
demo deserve a bit of praise for putting the clip online. Cheers, Joe

sorokod
04-15-2011, 07:25 AM
The lads doing their demo deserve a bit of praise for putting the clip online

Why on earth would this be true?

NagaBaba
04-15-2011, 11:00 AM
Hi, Naga Baba,
Did the demonstrators do anything right? It seems to me you focus is on the negative side.Would you not agree that rather than be really critical , perhaps you could give the guys some encouragement.How about you putting a clip of yourself doing the same ? I would like to see what you would do.The lads doing their
demo deserve a bit of praise for putting the clip online. Cheers, Joe
Hello Joe,
I think all depends how you set the expectations. I'll give you few examples:

When I was young and beautiful(in the middle ages), video was expensive to produce. About 3th kyu I saw myself very first time on video, and I went into the deep depression - I saw so many errors, I couldn't believe it can be true. After that, I promised myself - no more video.

One of my first teachers even didn't remarked my existence first 8 years of my practice. First time he began to talk to me it was after my shodan test.

So when my teacher is pointing my errors I'm very happy - it means he still has a hope I can learn something.This is the best encouragement.

sakumeikan
04-15-2011, 03:43 PM
Why on earth would this be true?
Hi David,
For the simple reason that putting yourself on web pages invites criticism , both positive and negative,By the way i looked at your dojo Webpage and viewed you video clips.No comment.
Hope you are well, Joe

sakumeikan
04-15-2011, 03:57 PM
Hello Joe,
I think all depends how you set the expectations. I'll give you few examples:

When I was young and beautiful(in the middle ages), video was expensive to produce. About 3th kyu I saw myself very first time on video, and I went into the deep depression - I saw so many errors, I couldn't believe it can be true. After that, I promised myself - no more video.

One of my first teachers even didn't remarked my existence first 8 years of my practice. First time he began to talk to me it was after my shodan test.

So when my teacher is pointing my errors I'm very happy - it means he still has a hope I can learn something.This is the best encouragement.
Dear Naga Baba,
As a teacher one must try and balance criticism to a student
i.m.o. I personally am inclined to focus on the positive aspects of a student rather than negative aspects.While I am not a school teacher or a trained educationalist I would suggest to you that
most people will respond to encouragement rather than if the instructor keeps saying 'this/that is incorrect'.I find it strange that you did not speak or communicate with one of your instructors for the first 8 years.Was it a case that both of you did not have anything to say to each other? Your example is not what I would call a good student /teacher relationship, which I consider to be an important element in the transmission of aikido from teacher to student.Still if the apparent lack of dialogue between him /you suited you , fine.
Cheers, Joe.

NagaBaba
04-15-2011, 06:55 PM
Hello Joe,

Dear Naga Baba,
As a teacher one must try and balance criticism to a student
i.m.o. I personally am inclined to focus on the positive aspects of a student rather than negative aspects.While I am not a school teacher or a trained educationalist I would suggest to you that
most people will respond to encouragement rather than if the instructor keeps saying 'this/that is incorrect'.
This is very 'western' educational approach.

I find it strange that you did not speak or communicate with one of your instructors for the first 8 years.Was it a case that both of you did not have anything to say to each other? Your example is not what I would call a good student /teacher relationship, which I consider to be an important element in the transmission of aikido from teacher to student.Still if the apparent lack of dialogue between him /you suited you , fine.
Cheers, Joe.
I was not in the position to ask questions.

JO
04-15-2011, 07:31 PM
Hello Joe,

This is very 'western' educational approach.

I was not in the position to ask questions.

If this was such a good example, how did you end up on this side of the Atlantic, learning aikido from a western-educated school teacher and earning yourself a reputation for asking the shihans all kinds of awkward questions.

Chris Li
04-15-2011, 08:24 PM
Hello Joe,

This is very 'western' educational approach.

I was not in the position to ask questions.

Even my most traditional instructors in Japan talked to me - and I didn't have to wait 8 years. Not a one of them minded answering a polite question either.

Best,

Chris

NagaBaba
04-16-2011, 06:05 PM
If this was such a good example, how did you end up on this side of the Atlantic, learning aikido from a western-educated school teacher and earning yourself a reputation for asking the shihans all kinds of awkward questions.
That is a looong story....one day, with good Belgium beer, we could talk about it :D

NagaBaba
04-16-2011, 06:08 PM
Even my most traditional instructors in Japan talked to me - and I didn't have to wait 8 years. Not a one of them minded answering a polite question either.

Best,

Chris
Hi Chris,
In some countries, it can be complicated.

Chris Li
04-16-2011, 06:37 PM
Hi Chris,
In some countries, it can be complicated.

Do you mean Canada? I lived in Japan for a long time, and it really wasn't all that complicated.

Best,

Chris

NagaBaba
04-17-2011, 08:13 AM
Do you mean Canada? I lived in Japan for a long time, and it really wasn't all that complicated.

Best,

Chris
No, it was in Europe. I don't want to enter to the details on public forum.

sorokod
04-18-2011, 12:34 AM
Hi David,
For the simple reason that putting yourself on web pages invites criticism , both positive and negative,By the way i looked at your dojo Webpage and viewed you video clips.No comment.
Hope you are well, Joe

Criticism period. There is no intrinsic requirement to be balanced in some way. For that matter no requirement for being constructive or fair. In this case the criticism is honest and to the point so I'd say that it is as good as can be expected.
As far as I am concerned this applies also to the clips posted by the club I train in althoug if memory serves I am not in those clips.

Cheers