Tadashi Abe

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[jamie yugawa]

I have been reading a lot about Tadashi Abe of late and was wondering, what is style was like and is there any more info on him ? Has anyone practiced with him ? I know he passed away in 1984 , but how did he pass away? Just curious. there is this vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICzIRYmD1X4&playnext=1&list=PLE5E971B5414D7D22&index=2

Is there a more complete video of this?

and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0b6pvwYbUM&feature=BF&list=PLE5E971B5414D7D22&index=1
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ7LozQDAaY

Also can any one identify the other people in this video I know there is Doshu, Koichi Tohei, Saito sensei and Tadashi Abe . But who are the others?

He seems to be a very interesting person with very little info on him.

[Hellis]

Tadashi Abe Sensei visited the UK at the invitation of Kenshiro Abbe Sensei in 1959 ? I would say that Abe Sensei was the hardest man I have ever met, a true warrior. Both Abbe Sensei and Chiba Sensei said if ever a man was meant to have lived in the 16th century, it was Abe Sensei....I was discussing Tadashi Abe Sensei over lunch with Chiba Sensei just a few months ago, Chiba Sensei described Tadashi Abe Sensei as his true hero. Abe Sensei had trained during the war to be a suicide one man torpedo pilot, just before he was to face his destiny the war ended, Chiba Sensei said that to the end of his life, Tadashi Abe felt that he had been cheated of his right to die as a true Samurai.

Henry Ellis
http://aikidoarticles.blogspot.com/

[jamie yugawa]

That is amazing!! I was told a similar story about Akira Tohei Sensei being trained as a kamakazi pilot and the war ended before he could fly his mission. Ellis Sensei do you have any good stories about your experiences with Abe Sensei? Perhaps anything he emphasized more in training or philosophy? Thank you.

[Hellis]

That is amazing!! I was told a similar story about Akira Tohei Sensei being trained as a kamakazi pilot and the war ended before he could fly his mission. Ellis Sensei do you have any good stories about your experiences with Abe Sensei? Perhaps anything he emphasized more in training or philosophy? Thank you.

Tadashi Abe Sensei did not expound very much philosphy, as with all the early teachers that I met he was only interested in hard training...One philosphy I do recall from Abe Sensei " opponent with fists is no challenge, opponent with knife is a true challenge ". I know for a fact that he always carried a knife so that when challenged he would offer the knife to his opponent.....In his last years he became very dissapointed with the direction of Aikido at Hombu, he went to the AikiKai Hombu, after watching for a while he stood up and looked around before apologizing to all the ladies present before stating out loud " This is not Aikido anymore, this Aikido is only for ladies " ..........With that he threw his Hombu diploma's on the mat and walked out, never to return.
There are some photos of Tadashi Abe Sensei on my ``5 photo galleries `` on www.british-aikido.com

Henry Ellis
http://aikidoarticles.blogspot.com/

[aikilouis]

Abe sensei was also the second Aikido teacher after Mochizuki sensei to teach in France, in the early 1950s. He wrote the very first Aikido manual in French :
http://www.scribd.com/doc/7307718/Aikido-Ueshiba-Tadashi-Abe-Arme-Et-Esprit-Samourai-1958-Tomes-1-Et-2-Complets

According to the legend, he was expelled by the local authorities after one bar brawl too many.

[jamie yugawa]

There is not much about Abe Sensei in his later years, does anyone know what happened to him? was he still actively practicing?

[jamie yugawa]

Wow those scans are great !!! Man I would hate to see the other guys in the brawls!! I am going to have to search for his Aikido book now also.

[Hellis]

Abe sensei was also the second Aikido teacher after Mochizuki sensei to teach in France, in the early 1950s. He wrote the very first Aikido manual in French :
http://www.scribd.com/doc/7307718/Aikido-Ueshiba-Tadashi-Abe-Arme-Et-Esprit-Samourai-1958-Tomes-1-Et-2-Complets

According to the legend, he was expelled by the local authorities after one bar brawl too many.

I have those two Aikido books by Tadashi Abe Sensei who gave two copies to Kenshiro Abbe Sensei who very kindly gave them to me, very rare and much treasured...I can't read French but there are many good photos:)

Henry Ellis
http://aikidoarticle.blogspot.com/

[aikilouis]

Mr Ellis, they are treasures indeed.

However, I actually realised that Mochizuki sensei had had published an aikido method in french a few years earlier. It is also available online if you search a little.

[crbateman]

There is some interesting info of Abe Sensei (from the perspectives of others) to be found in the article archives at Aikido Journal. Go here (http://www.aikidojournal.com/articleindex?freesearch=tadashi+abe&articleTypeID=0&authorID=0&issueID=0&lang=en) for the search results page.

[Hellis]

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Pierre Chassang, born in 1918, is an aikidoka holding 8th dan Takemusu Aiki Intercontinental and 6th dan Aikikai. First taught aikido by Tadashi Abe in 1952.

On return to Japan of Abe in 1960, he was instrumental in the creation of the Association Culturelle Européenne d'Aikido. Studies with Mutsuro Nakazono.

Founding member of the International Aikido Federation, of which he served as General Treasurer for several years. President of European Aikido Federation. Closely allied for many years with Nobuyoshi Tamura. Founding member of Takemusu Aiki Intercontinental with Philippe Voarino.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Pierre Chassang Sensei would be the best source of information on Tadashi Abe Sensei, he is 92 yrs of age, he was Abe Sensei's first European ( French ) student, he also helped Abe Sensei write his books in French.....You could pm Darren Sims who is a member here who I believe is still in contact with Chassang Sensei...
Chassang Sensei is a true gentleman of Aikido who I first met over 50 years ago. If he has written his memories of Abe Sensei ??? I would dearly like to read them...

Henry Ellis
http://aikidoarticles.blogspot.com/

[aikilouis]

The first part of an interview of Pierre Chassang featuring Philippe Voarino :
http://www.aikidojournal.eu/Entretiens/Chassang_Pierre_Cannes/

[Hellis]

The first part of an interview of Pierre Chassang featuring Philippe Voarino :
http://www.aikidojournal.eu/Entretiens/Chassang_Pierre_Cannes/

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thank you for that article, I had not seen it before.

Henry Ellis
http://akidoarticles.blogspot.com/

[mathewjgano]

Very cool! Thank you for the interesting reads! It's ironic that I happen to have recently begun an idle interest in Tadashi Abe and here we are talking about him. I always wondered who the fellow with the interesting smile was in this segment of video (@~1:19): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XTlWDOQBno And only recently found a listing of his name.

[jamie yugawa]

One of the interesting things was Tadashi Abe being nicknamed the "Happy Aikidoka" as seen in that video yet, being the one of the toughest men met by some. He sticks out the most in the line up with his smile, unusually uncharacteristic of a tough budo practitioner in the 1952 Wakayama video. I like how Minoru Mochizuki Sensei describes him as "evil-looking man with a monk-like hairstyle". I wonder if Abe Sensei felt his smile was menacing or perhaps a ruse to unsuspecting people.

[Hellis]

Believe me, you can take that smile at face value, Minoru Mochizuki Sensei saw Abe Sensei without the smile as I have. I could only describe the smile as being disarming with menace behind it.
Henry Ellis
http://aikidoarticle.blogspot.com/

[CitoMaramba]

Tadashi Abe Sensei was also a relative of Yoshimitsu Yamada Sensei, Abe Sensei being a cousin of Yamada Sensei's father..
cf: http://www.aikidojournal.com/article?articleID=83
and :
http://www.aikidojournal.com/encyclopedia?entryID=761

Abe Sensei passed away in 1984.
Abe Sensei is also known for penning a scathing rejoinder to Koichi Tohei Sensei's resignation letter in 1973.
Yasuo Kobayashi Sensei has some interesting anecdotes about Abe Sensei in his online biography, which can be read here:http://www.kobayashi-dojo.com/english/book/2_4_7/index.html

[jamie yugawa]

wow that information on Kobayashi Sensei's website was intense! I cant even imagine the scene where he throws water at Koichi Tohei. He sounded like an very intense person.

[jamie yugawa]

What are the names of the books that Abe Sensei wrote?

[mathewjgano]

Believe me, you can take that smile at face value, Minoru Mochizuki Sensei saw Abe Sensei without the smile as I have. I could only describe the smile as being disarming with menace behind it.
Henry Ellis
http://aikidoarticle.blogspot.com/

The one in the video struck me as "arming," I can only imagine what his angry face might look like!:eek:

[Hellis]

Tadashi Abbe was very angry with Tohei who he felt had betrayed OSensei, the incident with the water was nothing compared with his plan to kill Tohei, If I recall it was Chiba Sensie who took the knife off Abe Sensei who never ever forgave Tohei to the day he died,
Henry Ellis
http://aikidoarticles.blogspot.com/

[Ellis Amdur]

In issue #32 of AJ, in the interview with Saito sensei

When I became a student I found Mr. Abe took good care of the junior students… he taught us in a kind, polite manner. I still appreciate it very much. In the same way that Mr. Abe was kindly taught like a brother by Mr. Tohei when he began, I was taught kindly in turn like a brother by Mr. Abe.

[jamie yugawa]

This is all amazing stuff. Its too bad no one interviewed him or did an article just on Abe sensei. But, then again that interview may have been a little intense.

[Nicholas Eschenbruch]

There is not much about Abe Sensei in his later years, does anyone know what happened to him? was he still actively practicing?

I asked this question to an "aikido historian" and long-term resident of Japan at an after-class dinner in the US once, and he said something to the extent that Abe Sensei lived in very sad circumstances towards the end of his life, addiction and poverty were mentioned if I remember correctly. Apparently, he was raised in some sort of war-time interpretation of the samurai spirit that made it very difficult for him to fit in in post-war Japan, according to that conversation.

Abe Sensei was instrumental in getting André Nocquet to study under O-Sensei as the first Westerner. I guess Abe's martial ability was what convinced pre-olympic Judoka in France, like Nocquet, that Aikido was something worse pursuing.

[Cliff Judge]

I asked this question to an "aikido historian" and long-term resident of Japan at an after-class dinner in the US once, and he said something to the extent that Abe Sensei lived in very sad circumstances towards the end of his life, addiction and poverty were mentioned if I remember correctly. Apparently, he was raised in some sort of war-time interpretation of the samurai spirit that made it very difficult for him to fit in in post-war Japan, according to that conversation.

Abe Sensei had trained during the war to be a suicide one man torpedo pilot, just before he was to face his destiny the war ended, Chiba Sensei said that to the end of his life, Tadashi Abe felt that he had been cheated of his right to die as a true Samurai.

That's very sad. It sounds as though he died with a tremendous amount of unresolved anger and guilt. I feel terribly for this man right now.

[jamie yugawa]

That is truly unfortunate. I hope that more pictures and videos of Abe Sensei show up to further delve into finding more about him. Perhaps at the 2011 O-Sensei Memorial I will have a chance to speak to some of the senior shihan about Abe sensei.

[Ellis Amdur]

Terry Dobson met Abe Tadashi once, per his own account while living as an uchi-deshi. One night, he awoke to someone punching him over and over in the head. It was Abe Tadashi, drunk, yelling outrage because Terry was sleeping on his stomach. Abe claimed that a warrior should be sleeping on his back, to be able to fight off an attacker. Terry went after him and was tackled and restrained by the other uchi-deshi, because "Abe sensei is drunk."
Ellis Amdur

[Hellis]

That is truly unfortunate. I hope that more pictures and videos of Abe Sensei show up to further delve into finding more about him. Perhaps at the 2011 O-Sensei Memorial I will have a chance to speak to some of the senior shihan about Abe sensei.

Jamie

We early students of British Aikido only had the occasional opportunity to study with Tadashi Abe Sensei. You may be able to learn much more by contacting Mr Jack Poole of Shinwakai Aikido UK who claims to have studied directly with Tadashi Abe in France in the early 1950s.

From Mr Poole's biography.

[Quote]
Fortunately, Aikido had been introduced to France in 1952 by Tadashi Abe sensei , who was the official Aiki-Kai Honbu representative , and during leave and work placements in France Sensei Poole began training under him. [Unquote]

Henry Ellis
http://aikidoarticles.blogspot.com/

[Ellis Amdur]

Henry - you are a very bad man;)

[jamie yugawa]

lol Thank you Ellis sensei. These are such interesting facts, the generation of aikidoka that started in the 40's had such unique circumstances they had to deal with (post war japan, the introduction of aikido to the masses, O-Sensei's evolution of aikido etc.). Their lives at that time are truly interesting, perhaps their struggles and conflicts were reflected in their Aikido and training.

[Hellis]

Henry - you are a very bad man;)

I am in some discomfort today, thank you for making me laugh :-)

Henry

Henry Ellis
http://aikido-controversy.blogspot.com/

[Hellis]

lol Thank you Ellis sensei. These are such interesting facts, the generation of aikidoka that started in the 40's had such unique circumstances they had to deal with (post war japan, the introduction of aikido to the masses, O-Sensei's evolution of aikido etc.). Their lives at that time are truly interesting, perhaps their struggles and conflicts were reflected in their Aikido and training.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jamie

As a child during the war, I remember the poor families pooling their meager food rations to hold street parties for the returning prisoners of war, the prisoners of the Germans were treated far better than those that were prisoners of the Japanese, there were some awful sights to behold. In the UK food rationing continued until 1957. In the 1950s the war was fresh in everyones mind, with rationing and bomb sites everywhere. In the 1950s I was treated with anger and hostilty by the people I knew for being associated with a "" Japanese "" martial art. I wanted to tell everyone of the amazing technique of Abbe Sensei, I remember being threatened for even discussing my interests.

So, imagine how difficult it was for the likes of Kenshiro Abbe Sensei and Tadashi Abbe Sensei to come to Europe at such a time.

Henry Ellis
http://aikido-controversy.blogspot.com/

[JW]

... the prisoners of the Germans were treated far better than those that were prisoners of the Japanese, there were some awful sights to behold. ... In the 1950s I was treated with anger and hostilty by the people I knew for being associated with a "" Japanese "" martial art. I wanted to tell everyone of the amazing technique of Abbe Sensei, I remember being threatened for even discussing my interests.


Hi Mr. Ellis, thanks for talking about this. I didn't learn about these things until after starting aikido-- it is here on Aikiweb (thanks to Prof. Goldsbury) that I learned about things like Unit 731.
But there you were -- no need for history lessons or websites to tell you about such things with POWs coming home around you -- and yet you were just beginning to study a Japanese budo.

The anger that those around you expressed then is very much still alive now, so many years later, in those who were most affected by Japan in WWII. So, I want to ask: what was your response/defense/rationalization when people expressed their anger and hostility at that time? And, are your feelings any different now?

I'm just imagining you in post-war England singing the praises of a Japanese martial artist who felt cheated that he did not get to die by blowing himself up to sink an allied ship.

(BTW, I'm not being antagonistic, I do aikido too.. I just think these are the kinds of things we should talk about)

Thanks!
--JW

[sakumeikan]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jamie

As a child during the war, I remember the poor families pooling their meager food rations to hold street parties for the returning prisoners of war, the prisoners of the Germans were treated far better than those that were prisoners of the Japanese, there were some awful sights to behold. In the UK food rationing continued until 1957. In the 1950s the war was fresh in everyones mind, with rationing and bomb sites everywhere. In the 1950s I was treated with anger and hostilty by the people I knew for being associated with a "" Japanese "" martial art. I wanted to tell everyone of the amazing technique of Abbe Sensei, I remember being threatened for even discussing my interests.

So, imagine how difficult it was for the likes of Kenshiro Abbe Sensei and Tadashi Abbe Sensei to come to Europe at such a time.

Henry Ellis
http://aikido-controversy.blogspot.com/
Dear Henry,
In respect of these Japanese masters who came to the U.K. they in my opinion endured hard times.A certain gentleman [we both know] had a really tough time living in the U.K. I think that we owe a great deal to these men for their courage and committment to spreading the art.If it was not for their early endeavours and the endeavours made by the first generation of Aikidoka in the U.K.I also think as far as the U.K. is concerned these early pioneers should warrant the respect and admiration from the current current Aikido community. Without their efforts and sacrifices who knows where Aikido in the U.K. would be today?
The same applies to men like Ken Cottier/Terry Dobson/Andre Nocquet/Henry Kono/Alan Ruddock who all made a pilgrimage to Japan to study.Hope I havent missed out any early pioneers.If so I apologise profusely in advance.

[Hellis]

Hi Jonathan
One would think that with daily attacks on Britain the Germans would be the natural enemy.
As a schoolboy I spent a lot of time in air raid shelters hiding from the German bombers, I remember the German and Italian prisoners of war working in the fields, they were well guarded but also well looked after and well fed. As kids we would throw anything we could lay our hands on at the prisoners, they in turn would throw back in anger whatever they were digging up / cabbages / potatoes / turnips.........we would carry as much food home as we could for dear old mum, the rest we would sell for a few pennies.

When the treatment of the Japanese prisoners became known it appeared that they were the number one enemy as I recall.
I do recall being at work one day and once again trying to defend my reasons for my interest in Judo and Aikido when a guy that seemed more angry than most pulled upp his trouser legs to his knees showing the most horrible ``holes`` in his legs where in a Japanese camp he had been held down by his own medics and large leg ulcers removed with a large spoon from a pot of boiling water..... I decided there and then to keep my interests to myself and my friends.

Henry Ellis
http://aikido-controversy.blogspot.com

[Aikilove]

The image of Terry enraged and restrained by other uchi deshi made me laugh so hard I spilled my coffee!

/J

Terry Dobson met Abe Tadashi once, per his own account while living as an uchi-deshi. One night, he awoke to someone punching him over and over in the head. It was Abe Tadashi, drunk, yelling outrage because Terry was sleeping on his stomach. Abe claimed that a warrior should be sleeping on his back, to be able to fight off an attacker. Terry went after him and was tackled and restrained by the other uchi-deshi, because "Abe sensei is drunk."
Ellis Amdur

[Hellis]

Dear Henry,
In respect of these Japanese masters who came to the U.K. they in my opinion endured hard times.A certain gentleman [we both know] had a really tough time living in the U.K. I think that we owe a great deal to these men for their courage and committment to spreading the art.If it was not for their early endeavours and the endeavours made by the first generation of Aikidoka in the U.K.I also think as far as the U.K. is concerned these early pioneers should warrant the respect and admiration from the current current Aikido community. Without their efforts and sacrifices who knows where Aikido in the U.K. would be today?
The same applies to men like Ken Cottier/Terry Dobson/Andre Nocquet/Henry Kono/Alan Ruddock who all made a pilgrimage to Japan to study.Hope I havent missed out any early pioneers.If so I apologise profusely in advance.

Hi Joe
I often think back to the time when our dojo " The Hut " was the only dojo in Britain training / teaching Aikido. Ken Williams Sensei would say that one day there would be an Aikido dojo in every town, I did not share that belief, but 55 years later I am sure that his forsight has come true.....

Kenshiro Abbe Sensei was a man of few possessions and material needs..He would often just call in the Hut Dojo wearing his one and only old brown `` demob `` suit, kick off his shoes and go on the mat and teach....He did not drink alcohol except maybe a half pint of bitter, he did like a cigarette.. Sensei lived for the Budo he loved with a passion...They were hard times, but great times.
When Abbe Sensei left the UK to travel across Europe, he stayed with my good friend Elio Lamaga in Italy, Elio said that all Sensei wanted was the basic needs, a home and food, he would then teach all who flocked to him.

Henry
Henry Ellis
http://aikido-controversy.blogspot.com/

[tlk52]

?? just to clarify, the discussion is re: Tadashi Abbe Sensei, yes? as opposed to Kenshiro Abbe Sense?

I believe that Tadashi Abbe Sensei is related to Y. Yamada Sensei

[Cliff Judge]

?? just to clarify, the discussion is re: Tadashi Abbe Sensei, yes? as opposed to Kenshiro Abbe Sense?

I believe that Tadashi Abbe Sensei is related to Y. Yamada Sensei

The original discussion topic was Tadashi Abe. However, I would humbly suggest that if we have a man among us who is willing to post first-hand accounts of the British Aikido scene of 60 years ago, we'd be doing our community a great deal of harm by discouraging him in any way from continuing to do so. :)

Just for the record, isn't it Tadahi ABE and Kenshiro ABBE?

[sakumeikan]

The original discussion topic was Tadashi Abe. However, I would humbly suggest that if we have a man among us who is willing to post first-hand accounts of the British Aikido scene of 60 years ago, we'd be doing our community a great deal of harm by discouraging him in any way from continuing to do so. :)

Just for the record, isn't it Tadahi ABE and Kenshiro ABBE?
Hi, Cliff ,
I agree.Having trained with Abbe Sensei in the early days[Judo ] I can vouch for his martial abilities.Your spelling of the names are correct.I see no reason why anyone will mind if the subject matter strays away a little as long as we get an insight into how Aikido was in the early days.

[sakumeikan]

Hi, Cliff ,
I agree.Having trained with Abbe Sensei in the early days[Judo ] I can vouch for his martial abilities.Your spelling of the names are correct.I see no reason why anyone will mind if the subject matter strays away a little as long as we get an insight into how Aikido was in the early days.
I just noticed the incorrect spelling in my blog of Tadashi Abe name.Silly me.I put it in as Tadahi. Sorry for typing error.
Joe.

[Cliff Judge]

I just noticed the incorrect spelling in my blog of Tadashi Abe name.Silly me.I put it in as Tadahi. Sorry for typing error.
Joe.

Oops, I got the given name wrong when trying to clarify the spelling of the family name. Too funny. :)

Tadashi Abe.

[Carl Thompson]

Make sure you get the tadashii (correct) Abe: Tadashi Abe

[jamie yugawa]

Thank you Ellis sensei for sharing your expiriences. I had never thought about peoples attitude in America and the U.K. towards Japan and all thing Japanese in the immediate post war life. You are right, for a Japanese to move to the "Enemies" homeland was a tough struggle indeed. Tadashi Abe and Kenshiro Abbe were tougher in a lot more ways then one. I am sure they spoke of their struggles to no one either.

[Dazzler]

Thank you Ellis sensei for sharing your expiriences. I had never thought about peoples attitude in America and the U.K. towards Japan and all thing Japanese in the immediate post war life. You are right, for a Japanese to move to the "Enemies" homeland was a tough struggle indeed. Tadashi Abe and Kenshiro Abbe were tougher in a lot more ways then one. I am sure they spoke of their struggles to no one either.

Agree - fascinating reading.

I'd heard views from westerners about their immediate postwar experiences training in Japan but never really thought about the other side of the coin with the Japanese over 'here'.

[Hellis]

Not wishing to upset our `volunteer ` moderator, the names of both Tadashi Abe Sensei and Kenshiro Abbe Sensei ( Abe ) are inextricably linked, they were both officers in the Japanese Imperial Army, they were also great friends, they had both studied with OSensei, Abe Sensei was the Aikido pioneer to Europe, Abbe Sensei was the Aikido pioneer who brought Aikido to Britain. They would invite each other across the channel on many occasions. They did great things together. Together these two `` gentlemen `` were true ambassdors of the Japanese people.

At the Kenshiro Abbe memorial in 2005, the Japanese Embassy Cultural Attache made one of the mosr amazing speeches I have ever heard, he spoke of the bravery of Abbe Sensei in visiting the UK in such difficult times, he referred several times to the war.

Henry Ellis
http://aikidoarticles.blogspot.com/

[jamie yugawa]

Ellis Sensei, I found your book on Amazon.com and look forward to reading more about Aikido in th U.K. I was able to see Abe sensei's book from the link some one sent over and noticed he used a lot of atemi including kicks and headbutts. Even some of the techniques still were using daito ryu names ( Ikkajo). Are these techniques still emphasized now in Aikido in the U.K.?

[jamie yugawa]

On the polar opposite side, Hawaii's assimilation of Aikido into our culture was fast and painless due to the large American Japanese population and martial arts being integrated in daily life here. Koichi Tohei was treated with the utmost respect and gratitude by the community here. I think what also helped was the ban on martial arts was lifted in the late 40's right before Tohei sensei came to hawaii. For the Japanese Aikido teachers to be treated like second class citizens at the same time is astounding to me.

[Hellis]

Ellis Sensei, I found your book on Amazon.com and look forward to reading more about Aikido in th U.K. I was able to see Abe sensei's book from the link some one sent over and noticed he used a lot of atemi including kicks and headbutts. Even some of the techniques still were using daito ryu names ( Ikkajo). Are these techniques still emphasized now in Aikido in the U.K.?

Jamie
I am pleased to read that you are interested in the book " Positive Aikido " ...If you are looking for floating around the universe or Aiki love ? cancel your order now, if you wish to learn about positive traditional Aikido ? then I am sure you will enjoy the book.

In the 1950s there were no names for techniques, simply " necessary this technique " and we would learn by observation, with a little help from a Shinai, Abbe Sensei would say "" my English is bad, my Shinai speaks English fluently " ... when Nakazono Sensei arrived we started to put names to the techniques.

I am often amazed how so many people in Aikido say " there is no kicking in Aikido !!! " ...The Aikido of Tadashi Abe and Kenshiro Abe there was a lot of kicking and punching, no time to tell your opponent that you love him, enter and take your opponent out.
My students are still taught in the original ways, I don't know of other schools ??
Henry Ellis
http://aikido-controversy.blogspot.com/

[crbateman]

Jamie
I am pleased to read that you are interested in the book " Positive Aikido " ...If you are looking for floating around the universe or Aiki love, cancel your order now, if you wish to learn about positive traditional Aikido, then I am sure you will enjoy the book.
Ditto, Jamie. Ellis Sensei did an excellent job with this book. This link (http://www.aikidojournal.com/bibliography_details?id=108) will take you to the Aikido Journal bibliography link, where you will find some very positive reviews.

[Hellis]

Ditto, Jamie. Ellis Sensei did an excellent job with this book. This link (http://www.aikidojournal.com/bibliography_details?id=108) will take you to the Aikido Journal bibliography link, where you will find some very positive reviews.

Hi Clark

Thank you for your valued approval of the book " Positive Aikido ", very much appreciated. If I recall , you were one of the first to order the book. ? You may be interested to know that we are now working on the next one.

Henry

Henry Ellis
http://aikidoarticles.blogspot.com/

[Gorgeous George]

Since there is a lot of interest in Tadashi Abe, perhaps this thread will interest:

http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18219&highlight=tadashi

[F.S.]

Our instructor Georges Rousseau (http://www.aikidotakemusu.com/article60.html) often mentions Tadashi Abe as one of the earliest and most important influences on his aikido.

For the purposes of this thread, I would like to just briefly summarize a couple of the anecdotes I heard Georges tell several times (leaving out much of the detail and a lot of Georges’ story-telling flavor).

(1) “Protection”
In the first years of Abe’s stay in Europe (mostly France and Belgium), his French was quite limited. One of the words he knew quite well was “protection”: when Abe was demonstrating standard aikido exercises, Uke had to be well aware of openings for atemi, which Abe would definitely exploit, even during basic training (with relative beginners, at that time). As a case in point, Abe broke for instance a couple of Georges’ brother’s ribs once, during a course, and bruised many more.
(NB that in what I’ve heard about Abe’s rough practice, nothing transpire of any kind of sick abuse that for instance Chiba seems to have displayed regularly.

(2) “Mauvais 6dan”
Once, in the dressing room after training, Georges asked about a scar on Tadashi Abe’s belly. “Appendicitis?” “No, 6th dan”. Abe then explained that O-Sensei Ueshiba asked him to go pick a fight in the bars of a rough neighborhood (harbor?). Abe apparently survived but got at least one knife-wound. Abe’s comment: “Bad 6dan”.

(3) The boxing coach
Abe used to regularly teach in a dojo organized by Pierre Chassang in the South of France (Marseille?). At the same venue, there was also a boxing gym. Abe apparently like to go and watch the boxers’ training sessions. At somepoint, the boxing coach told Chassang to get rid of that Japanese guy and to keep him away from his boxers. “Didn’t you see these eyes of his; he’s a killer”.

(4) Abe taking care of business in Tokyo
Georges was in Japan for some conference related to aikido-politics (1976 IAF congress, I think). Abe notices that Georges is not quite happy and asks what’s wrong. Georges explains that he paid for his stay in advance, but that the travel agency apparently did not transfer the money to their Japanese branch. Abe makes a phone call to the local branch, using his best “samurai” tone of voice, puts Georges in a taxi, giving instructions to the driver in the same tone. When Georges arrives at the travel agency’s Tokyo branch, someone is waiting for him with an envelope with the exact amount of money, bowing deeply.

(5) Streetfighting in Marseille
After training (in Marseille?), Abe and a bunch of Aikido students and their wifes went to eat at a Chinese restaurant, at the edge of a ‘hot’ quarter of town. When the party left the restaurant, a gang of dangerous-looking people were coming towards them. Abe insisted for the rest of the party to get back into the restaurant (despite the fact that his students –not really wussies either- were eager to participate in any fight). Abe took care of it all. Several ambulances were needed to clean up the mess (lots of broken arms and legs). The local police seemed to be used to this kind of event.

FWIW.
There are plenty more of those, but this is what I can come up with right now, with a reasonable degree of accuracy in retelling what I’ve heard. I’ll try to check the details of these anecdotes next Saturday and chime in again after having my memory refreshed.

[crbateman]

Hi Clark

Thank you for your valued approval of the book " Positive Aikido ", very much appreciated. If I recall , you were one of the first to order the book. ? You may be interested to know that we are now working on the next one.

Henry
Thank you, Sensei. And I'll be the first to order the second one, as well...

[Hellis]

Thank you, Sensei. And I'll be the first to order the second one, as well...

I promise you will be the first to know when it is completed. I am going to New Mexico next May ( ? ) to work with Dave Rogers the author for a couple of months to put all the material we have together...I need some NM sunshine on these old bones :-)

Henry

Henry Ellis
http://rik-ellis.blogspot.com/

[jamie yugawa]

Thank you mr Scheppers for the information!! Please ask Rousseau Sensei for more details on his expireinces with Abe Sensei.

Ellis Sensei please let all of us know when your book comes out as i would like to read that also.

All of this information is amazing. I am suprised about no one is researching more about Abe Sensei. Someone should compile this information from the remaining early practioners for an early european aikido historical book. Or perhaps reissue the early European aikido books. I find all of this facinating!!!:D

[Demetrio Cereijo]

All of this information is amazing. I am suprised about no one is researching more about Abe Sensei. Someone should compile this information from the remaining early practioners for an early european aikido historical book. Or perhaps reissue the early European aikido books. I find all of this facinating!!!:D

It's not the kind of aikido people wants today, and I think the "establishment" wants people like Abe Sensei to be forgotten.

[Carl Thompson]

Make sure you get the tadashii (correct) Abe: Tadashi Abe

I would like to explain the purpose of my previous post above. For those of us who started our aikido in the UK, the history and lineages involved can be quite unclear (and the number of super-high-ranking teachers who keep very quiet on the subject doesn't help). The contributions of two important Japanese teachers can be further confused by them having similar names. The Japanese word for "correct" is tadashii. I used this as a way of distinguishing the Tadashi (only one "i" - totally different kanji) Abe from Kenshiro Abbe. Of course, I do not mean that one Abe is correct and the other isn't.

From the Japan side, I have a small anecdote concerning Tadashi Abe Shihan. I am afraid it was told by a very old student of Osensei and I struggled to understand his thickly Ibaraki-dialect Japanese, so I apologise for the lack of detail. He described how there was once a mean, violent deshi in the Iwama dojo called Abe. One night Osensei was outside, looking at the moon. Abe crept up behind Osensei and tried to attack him with a spear. Osensei disarmed and immobilised Abe without taking his eyes off the moon. When asked how he knew of the attack, Osensei said he could sense his attacker's ki.

Carl

[Carl Thompson]

Ditto, Jamie. Ellis Sensei did an excellent job with this book. This link (http://www.aikidojournal.com/bibliography_details?id=108) will take you to the Aikido Journal bibliography link, where you will find some very positive reviews.

I've already sent my requests to Father Christmas with a list of Aikido books but this is going on my birthday wish-list for next year.

[Carl Thompson]

Sorry "Tadashi" Abe does use the kanji for "correct" 正 just minus the "i".

[Peter Goldsbury]

In Japanese the name is written as 阿部　正: in hiragana, あべ　ただし (minus an i, as Carl states).
(Actually, if I type in Abbe あっべ, my computer will not give me 阿部; it will struggle to find me something else.)

The name of Abbe Kenshiro is written as 阿部　謙四郎: in hiragana, あべ　けんしろう.
You will notice that the family name Abbe is written with the same characters as for Abe Tadashi and so I am curious about the double b spelling. Mr Ellis, any idea?

Is your book still available, by the way? I would very much like to obtain a copy if it is.

Best wishes,

Peter Goldsbury

[Hellis]

In Japanese the name is written as 阿部　正: in hiragana, あべ　ただし (minus an i, as Carl states).
(Actually, if I type in Abbe あっべ, my computer will not give me 阿部; it will struggle to find me something else.)

The name of Abbe Kenshiro is written as 阿部　謙四郎: in hiragana, あべ　けんしろう.
You will notice that the family name Abbe is written with the same characters as for Abe Tadashi and so I am curious about the double b spelling. Mr Ellis, any idea?

Is your book still available, by the way? I would very much like to obtain a copy if it is.

Best wishes,

Peter Goldsbury

Hi Peter
Long time since we were in contact :blush:
As I understand it Kenshiro Abbe Sensei added an extra `` b `` when he arrived in the UK, I am not sure of the reason at this time. I have some papers somewhere on this point...

The book " Positive Aikido " is available on Amazon or from ` Trafford Publishing`.

Kind regards

Henry

Henry Ellis
http://aikido-controversy.blogspot.com/

[Hellis]

It's not the kind of aikido people wants today, and I think the "establishment" wants people like Abe Sensei to be forgotten.

I believe it ``is `` the kind of Aikido people want today. In the 1950s we found Abe Sensei amazing and powerful, that is why I started Aikido.
I accept that the ``establisment`` may well wish to forget Tadashi Abbe Sensei, that does not mean we should forget him, he is a legend and a great character of a modern Samurai.

Henry Ellis
http://aikido-controversy.blogspot.com/

[Hellis]

Thank you mr Scheppers for the information!! Please ask Rousseau Sensei for more details on his expireinces with Abe Sensei.

Ellis Sensei please let all of us know when your book comes out as i would like to read that also.

All of this information is amazing. I am suprised about no one is researching more about Abe Sensei. Someone should compile this information from the remaining early practioners for an early european aikido historical book. Or perhaps reissue the early European aikido books. I find all of this facinating!!!:D

Jamie

I was contacted a little while ago by Leo Tamaki a Japanese journalist living in France who is writing the history of Aikido in Eurpope , he has asked to interview me at some point in the future.
I was recommended to Mr Tamaki by Jiro Nakazono the son of Masahilo Nakazono Sensei, I am in regular contact with Jiro Nakazono who sent the following story to add to my sons blog.

I am 60; though I was too young to be a part of the "Pioneer Generation" of
European Aikido, I lived right next to the warriors who at each
demonstration they gave invited any challenger on the mat from the public.
When my father was invited to the Foreign Legion in Marseilles with Tadashi
Abe sensei, they were met with two big soldiers hiding behind both side of
the door with Baseball Bats... They were true Martial Artists, and their
students were aspiring to follow their footsteps. Some did, and some chose
a more civilized way, which is today's Aikido.
I met Henry Ellis sensei on the mat for the first time in 2007, i believe he
was over 70, and he gave me a Nikyo I felt for 4 months afterwards. It was
a completely different generation. Jiro Nakazono (45 years in Aikido).
Jiro Nakazono

Henry Ellis
http://aikido-controversy.blogspot.com/

[Peter Goldsbury]

Hi Peter
Long time since we were in contact :blush:
As I understand it Kenshiro Abbe Sensei added an extra `` b `` when he arrived in the UK, I am not sure of the reason at this time. I have some papers somewhere on this point...

The book " Positive Aikido " is available on Amazon or from ` Trafford Publishing`.

Kind regards

Henry

Henry Ellis
http://aikido-controversy.blogspot.com/

Hello Henry,

Thank you for the quick response. Positive Aikido is on order and I hope it will arrive by the end of the year.

K Chiba is the closest I ever got to savouring what the combination of Abbe / Abe / Nakazono was like when you trained in the Hut. Chiba Sensei, hardly an 'aiki-bunny' himself, had very serious respect for these gentlemen. When I came to Japan, Chiba Sensei gave me some advice about training at the Hombu Dojo: as far as possible, I should train with the following Hombu shihans: Yamaguchi, Arikawa, Tada. He never said 'only these', but the fact that he gave me such advice strongly suggested the sentiment.

However, Nicholas Eschenbruch's comment (Post #24) struck a chord:
"... Abe Sensei lived in very sad circumstances towards the end of his life, addiction and poverty were mentioned if I remember correctly. Apparently, he was raised in some sort of war-time interpretation of the samurai spirit that made it very difficult for him to fit in in post-war Japan, according to that conversation."

Having read and reviewed Ellis Amdur's book, Hidden in Plain Sight, I wonder whether one could draw any comparison between Abe Sensei's upbringing and Sokaku Takeda's, but this needs a separate post.

Abe Tadashi was born in 1926. So he was eleven years of age when Japan invaded Manchuria in 1937 and when the Kokutai no Hongi was issued (and compulsorily taught/studied in all Japanese schools) and was fifteen when Pearl Harbour was attacked. So his early education would have taken place in the full flowering of Japan's wartime ultranationalism. He was eighteen in 1944, just the age for manning kamikaze planes.

However, of the shihans I mentioned earlier, Seigo Yamaguchi was born in 1924 and I believe he fought in the Japanese navy, manning submarines. Yamaguchi Sensei underwent the same kind of education and was sent to Burma, as part of a scheme for Japan's war reparations. But I wonder why Abe Sensei went to Europe. According to Stan Pranin, he was invited by Abbe Kenshiro Sensei, but I wonder whether the real reason was that he was a kind of anachronism already: he saw the world in absolutes and had no place in Japan at this time. O Sensei came to terms with Japan's defeat very quietly, training in Iwama over the decade from 1945 to 1955. As did Morihiro Saito.

The reason for these speculations is that I know quite a few Japanese here in Hiroshima, who also found it very, very hard to come to terms with Japan's defeat, especially in the dramatic way that the population of Hiroshima experienced it. I have a Japanese friend and colleague here who was thirteen in 1945. His father was a high-ranking officer on the battleship Yamato, which was built in Kure, a few miles south of Hiroshima, and manned largely by local sailors. The ship was sank on April 7, 1945, and, of course, my friend's father, being an officer, went down with the ship. Not to have done so would have been considered a betrayal of his country. My friend still cannot bring himself to visit the Yamato Museum in Kure.

I mention all this to emnphasize the human aspects of World War II, on both sides. It is a shame that the aikido community in Japan was not able to take better care of Abe Sensei after he returned to Japan.

Best wishes,

Peter G.

[Hellis]

Hi Peter

I hope you enjoy the book, the next one will be better in hardback.

Yes, the early Chiba Sensei was so similar to training with the old teachers you mention. I think that he is possibly the last of the old school..

However, Nicholas Eschenbruch's comment (Post #24) struck a chord:
"... Abe Sensei lived in very sad circumstances towards the end of his life, addiction and poverty were mentioned if I remember correctly. Apparently, he was raised in some sort of war-time interpretation of the samurai spirit that made it very difficult for him to fit in in post-war Japan, according to that conversation."

Both Kenshiro Abbe ( Abe ) and Tadashi Abe Sensei's ended their lives almost forgotton in difficult financial circumstances..Even now it saddens me to think of these once proud men ending their days in such a way...I do recall Kenshiro Abbe saying that Tadashi Abe had to go back to Japan circa 1967 as there was a problem with someone stealing a lot of money from the family business, Abe Sensei was going to deal with the man concerned, we were all very curious what followed, we never heard anymore.........

I wonder why Abe Sensei went to Europe. According to Stan Pranin, he was invited by Abbe Kenshiro Sensei,

K Abbe Sensei could not have invited T Abe to Europe...It is my understanding that T Abe visited France at the invitation of Mochhizuki Sensei in """""1952 """"" where as Kenshiro Abbe Sensei arrived in the UK in 1955.

The war left its mark on all ages, friend and foe alike..
Life was very hard indeed. I was brought up by a Victorian father who only ever spoke once, all I ever knew and understood was discipline, so the strict regime at the " Hut Dojo " was easier perhaps for me than others.

Regards
Henry

Henry Ellis
http://aikido-controversy.blogspot.com/

[Gorgeous George]

I have a Japanese friend and colleague here who was thirteen in 1945. His father was a high-ranking officer on the battleship Yamato, which was built in Kure, a few miles south of Hiroshima, and manned largely by local sailors. The ship was sank on April 7, 1945, and, of course, my friend's father, being an officer, went down with the ship. Not to have done so would have been considered a betrayal of his country. My friend still cannot bring himself to visit the Yamato Museum in Kure.

I read a very good book about that battleship, by the way, that might interest you:

Requiem for Battleship "Yamato" (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Requiem-Battleship-Yamato-History-Politics/dp/0094797803/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1292084567&sr=8-1-spell)

It's very intense: they were told it was a one-way mission - only being given enough fuel for the journey to meet the US navy; he talks about running past a gunner during the battle - then on the way back, he'd been vapourised; seeing the captain tied to the wheel; and nearly drowning, and wishing for death, etc.

And the symbolism of 'Yamato' being the poetic name for Japan, and the ship sinking...

[Peter Goldsbury]

Hello Graham,

I have the book, and the original Japanese version also. There is also quite an interesting film, of which I think the English title was Yamato. The Japanese is Otoko-tachi no Yamato (The Men of the Yamato). To make it, they built a full-scale replica of the ship at a town called Onomichi, not far from here. There is a museum in Kure, that contains a much smaller model of the ship.

Best wishes,

PAG

I read a very good book about that battleship, by the way, that might interest you:

Requiem for Battleship "Yamato" (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Requiem-Battleship-Yamato-History-Politics/dp/0094797803/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1292084567&sr=8-1-spell)

It's very intense: they were told it was a one-way mission - only being given enough fuel for the journey to meet the US navy; he talks about running past a gunner during the battle - then on the way back, he'd been vapourised; seeing the captain tied to the wheel; and nearly drowning, and wishing for death, etc.

And the symbolism of 'Yamato' being the poetic name for Japan, and the ship sinking...

[Peter Goldsbury]

Hi Peter

K Abbe Sensei could not have invited T Abe to Europe...It is my understanding that T Abe visited France at the invitation of Mochhizuki Sensei in """""1952 """"" where as Kenshiro Abbe Sensei arrived in the UK in 1955.

Hello Henry,

Yes, you are right. I misread Stan's reference. It was Abbe Kenshiro Sensei who invited Tadashi Abe to the UK, not Europe. My mistake.

PAG

[Hellis]

Hello Henry,

Yes, you are right. I misread Stan's reference. It was Abbe Kenshiro Sensei who invited Tadashi Abe to the UK, not Europe. My mistake.

PAG

Hello Peter

The important point on this valued thread is that we are learning from each other. This subject was an important part of my life, I was so fortunate to meet /study/ train with so many great teachers so early in my life. I was talking with Derek Eastman over a pint on Monday evening how we really had no idea what we were involved in back in the 1950s.

Take care

Henry

Henry Ellis
http://aikido-controversy.blogspot.com/

[Josh Reyer]

Just hazarding a guess on the Abe/Abbe thing, but if you show "Abe" to a English speaker with no knowledge of Japanese, they're apt to pronounce it like the English name "Abe", or something similar. But an extra "b" in there, though, and the English speaker is apt to pronounce it much closer to the Japanese pronunciation.

Professor Goldsbury, wouldn't a more accurate translation of Otoko-tachi no Yamato be something like, "Yamato, Ship of Men"?

[Peter Goldsbury]

Professor Goldsbury, wouldn't a more accurate translation of Otoko-tachi no Yamato be something like, "Yamato, Ship of Men"?

Hello Josh,

Yes, indeed. I took the liberty because 'Yamato of Men' sounds much more corny than, e.g., 'ship of fools' of even 'children of men', and it is the otoko-tachi that the film is primarily concerned with. Not that the otoko were fools, of course. They had little choice and were barely otoko. I can imagine Tadashi Abe in the role played by Shido Nakamura.

PAG

[philipsmith]

Just a quick comment on this fascinating thread.

From discussions with various individuals including both Chiba and Yamada Sensei's I always got the impression that both men were troubled in their own way. They were perhaps anachronisms who never fully learnt to deal with the changing world around them.

However, just to add some balance they and others talked about both mens compassion and sincerity a quality shared by both Chiba and Yamada by the way.

yes the training was hard but it built an unbreakable bond between those who followied their path.

[F.S.]

Two more anecdotes about Tadashi Abe (follow-up from post #53 in this thread). My source is still Georges Rousseau’s “kuden”, during, before and after training in our dojo. (BTW: I apparently got the dates and places right, in my previous post)

(6) Suwari-waza Shomen-uchi Ikkyo
The first year or so, Abe didn’t teach anything else but Suwari-waza Shomen-uchi Ikkyo. Pierre Chassang used to say: “We used to think that aikido WAS Suwari-waza Shomen-uchi Ikkyo”.

(7) Tadashi Abe addressing the Aikikai establishment at the first IAF congress in Tokyo (1976)
At some point during the congress Abe took the floor, unannounced and without asking for permission. He started some kind of sermon, in Japanese with his own French translation (isn’t that remarkable?), singling out a number of the Japanese big shots:
• “You! Why doshu? Before waka-sensei.”
• “Saito. Pupil of Tadashi Abe.”
• “Tamura, good little boy”.
• “Yamada, dirty little boy. Pissed on my pants” [As pointed out above, Yamada was related to Abe, and known to Abe since Yamada was a baby]
• etc.

[jamie yugawa]

Was Abe Sensei still training in the 70's and 80's?

[Hellis]

Jamie

I have no knowledge of Abe Sensei being involved in Aikido after the incident on his `final` visit to Hombu in 1967...........

Tadashi Abe Sensei demonstrating push-ups on the back of the wrists.......Have you seen this collection of pages from those books he wrote in the 1950s in France ? I had intended to add them myself when I have the time, I am pleased that someone has done it for me.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/7307718/Aikido-Ueshiba-Tadashi-Abe-Arme-Et-Esprit-Samourai-1958-Tomes-1-Et-2-Complets

Henry

Henry Ellis
http://aikidoarticles.blogspot.com/

[Demetrio Cereijo]

Jamie

I have no knowledge of Abe Sensei being involved in Aikido after the incident on his `final` visit to Hombu in 1967...........

Tadashi Abe Sensei demonstrating push-ups on the back of the wrists.......

Those are not push-ups.

[Michael Douglas]

....Have you seen this collection of pages from those books he wrote in the 1950s in France ? I had intended to add them myself when I have the time, I am pleased that someone has done it for me.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/7307718/Aikido-Ueshiba-Tadashi-Abe-Arme-Et-Esprit-Samourai-1958-Tomes-1-Et-2-Complets
Thanks for the great link!

Its official : Aiki-do includes Mule kick and spinning chop! :)

[jamie yugawa]

Tadashi Abe Sensei demonstrating push-ups on the back of the wrists.......Have you seen this collection of pages from those books he wrote in the 1950s in France ? I had intended to add them myself when I have the time, I am pleased that someone has done it for me.
[url]http://www.scribd.com/doc/7307718/Ai...-Et-2-Complets[/url
I particularly like the hammer fist to back of the head!!! man they used to play for keeps back the day !!

[Hellis]

I particularly like the hammer fist to back of the head!!! man they used to play for keeps back the day !!

Jamie

Tadashi Abe Sensei could stop you by the look on his face, they called him the smiling Aikidoka, it was not a smile, more a mask.
I have trained with many of the early Budo masters , he was the hardest of them all.... The Aikido push-ups, these were done in every session, sometimes with someone on your back......

Henry Ellis
http://aikidoarticles.blogspot.com/

[David Orange]

Tadashi Abe Sensei could stop you by the look on his face, they called him the smiling Aikidoka, it was not a smile, more a mask.
I have trained with many of the early Budo masters , he was the hardest of them all.... The Aikido push-ups, these were done in every session, sometimes with someone on your back......

You mentioned Mochizuki Sensei's comment on Abe's face earlier.

Would you care to elaborate on that? Do you think training with Ueshiba made Abe a better man, or worse? Or had some other effect?

Since reading Mochizuki Sensei's comments about Abe, I've often wondered about him.

Thanks. And Merry Christmas!

David

[David Orange]

Thanks for the great link!

Its official : Aiki-do includes Mule kick and spinning chop! :)

He may have gotten that idea from his encounter with Mochizuki Sensei...:D

[sakumeikan]

Hello Henry,

Yes, you are right. I misread Stan's reference. It was Abbe Kenshiro Sensei who invited Tadashi Abe to the UK, not Europe. My mistake.

PAG

Hi Peter,
Merry Xmas!! Genki deska?? As a point of interest it was also Abbe Sensei who was instrumental in arranging for Chiba Sensei to come to the U.K. He was sponsored by Mr Logan who lived in the N.East of England [Tynemouth].Chiba Sensei spent time in Sunderland YMCA before going down to London Tempukan.
This was the period of guys like John Hamilton , Ron Myers Pat Butler, Stuart Appleby , Tommy Pickering and Lee Crow in the N.E. I moved to N/Cle in the 70s and had some contact with these guys.Mr Lockyear MBE was also training away then .
These were good times , sad to say , it all went downhill in after 1976.
Cheers, Joe.

[David Orange]

I read a very good book about that battleship, by the way, that might interest you:

Requiem for Battleship "Yamato" (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Requiem-Battleship-Yamato-History-Politics/dp/0094797803/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1292084567&sr=8-1-spell)



One of the most incredible books I ever read on Japan in WWII was Samurai by Saburo Sakai, the top fighter ace in Japan. He had learned to fly gliders in middle school and was a champion at that, so they snatched him up as soon as he was old enough and put him into the air force or whoever ran the fighter planes. He soon became an ace and he kept fighting when he had an eye shot out. And then they told him they were making him a kamikaze. Of course, he had his own personal human feelings, but I think he was really beyond fear of death at that point. But he became incredibly angry at the waste of resources by the Japanese military: he was not only highly trained and their most effective fighter pilot, but he saw himself as an invaluable resource for younger pilots. He could pass on knowledge that no one else had. But they sadi, "Nah, just go crash into a ship. We don't need what you got."

Incredibly, Sakai survived at least two kamikaze missions as well as all his aerial combats. An incredible story.

In that, he lists the horrific abuses the Japanese military inflicted on their own personnel, driving many to suicide in the barracks. And along the same line is The Two Lives of Jim Yoshida, apparently the true story of an American Japanese from Seattle, who goes to Japan with his mother to visit relatives just before the outbreak of the war. Despite Yoshida's being American and speaking no Japanese, he is conscripted into the Army and sent to China. He somehow survives the whole war, but it's an awful story.

All this just to add some further inside views on how the war affected all the Japanese and most everyone else in the world.

Best to all.

David

[David Orange]

Not wishing to upset our `volunteer ` moderator, the names of both Tadashi Abe Sensei and Kenshiro Abbe Sensei ( Abe ) are inextricably linked, they were both officers in the Japanese Imperial Army, they were also great friends, they had both studied with OSensei, Abe Sensei was the Aikido pioneer to Europe, Abbe Sensei was the Aikido pioneer who brought Aikido to Britain. They would invite each other across the channel on many occasions. They did great things together. Together these two `` gentlemen `` were true ambassdors of the Japanese people.

That's good to hear. Tadashi Abe has so many "intense" stories about him, it's hard to believe that could be the only side of him...

And my hat's off to you to have been studying with him the year I was born. This is a fascinating thread.

Best wishes.

David

[jamie yugawa]

That's good to hear. Tadashi Abe has so many "intense" stories about him, it's hard to believe that could be the only side of him...

And my hat's off to you to have been studying with him the year I was born. This is a fascinating thread.

I agree with you also. I am truly fascinated by Aikido history in general, but this has been very informative with great contributions from the European Aikido community. I hope others have great stories about Tadashi Abe Sensei.

[Hellis]

You mentioned Mochizuki Sensei's comment on Abe's face earlier.

Would you care to elaborate on that? Do you think training with Ueshiba made Abe a better man, or worse? Or had some other effect?

Since reading Mochizuki Sensei's comments about Abe, I've often wondered about him.

Thanks. And Merry Christmas!

David

Mochizuki described Tadashi Abe as having an evil face. He did have a look that whilst appearing to smile, could at the same time instill a sense of fear.
I would say he was a better man for being with OSensei. He was very loyal to OSensei, when his friend Tohei was planning to leave OSensei, Tadashi Abe was prepared to do some serious harm to Tohei. Earlier this year Chiba Sensei spoke of the time he had to restrain Abe Sensei from doing such a thing.
All my early teachers - Kenshiro Abbe - Masahilo Nakazono - Masamichi Noro - TK Chiba, they all admired and respected Abe Sensei as a man and a warrior.

Best wishes for 2011

Henry Ellis
http://aikidoarticles.blogspot.com/

[Tony Wagstaffe]

Henry,

I kinda get the impression that Tadashi Abe was an allright sort of bloke when the alcohol didn't get the better of him? Albeit he was a tough martial artist in the highest degree.....
It makes one wonder the effects WW2 had on the guy given the unimaginable crap that was going on at the time, what with that, and his personal upbringing......?
Was he ever physically vicious to you personally?
Or was it part and parcel of the training that was the "norm" in those days.....
I remember taking hard ukemi for my 1st teacher Bob Forrest Webb on a hard wooden stage for a demo for some farmers union out in the sticks one night, before I ever got my shodan.....
I was a bit black and blue but it never worried me as I thought it to be the "norm" and just got on with it seeing it as a challenge to be overcome.....
So when I hear that some teachers were severe, were they? Or is that "their version" of how budo should be endured.....?

Tony

[niall]

Francis Takahashi Sensei wrote a very interesting column this month called Winning vs. Not Losing (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19064). Andrew Bedford added a relevant quotation:

A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence.
Yukiyoshi Takamura

This is the interview with Yukiyoshi Takamura the quote was taken from: http://www.shinyokai.com/Takamura%20interview.pdf. The quote is on page 9 and in the very next paragraph on the same page Takamura Sensei says:

Years ago I saw an aikido instructor named Tadashi Abe in France. He was a true warrior in every way. He was a great example of a man with martial spirit flaming in his belly while the spirit of harmony was visible in his eye. He was a real credit to Ueshiba Sensei's technical and spiritual legacy. He is 100% samurai!

I want to make a digression here about the surprising interconnections/nexuses in aikido and budo. If you check out the site with the interview http://www.shinyokai.com/home.htm you can see photos of Toby Threadgill who teaches Takamura ha Shindo Yoshin Ryu (TSYR) and who is a member of aikiweb. This week I saw links to a video of his battojutsu/iai and to an interview with him on a Spanish aikido forum http://www.aikiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=3508. I noticed it particularly because the first technique was a reverse Zatoichi grip draw and I had done a blog post about Zatoichi a week or so earlier...

[Peter Goldsbury]

Hello Joe,

Hi Peter,
Merry Xmas!! Genki deska?? As a point of interest it was also Abbe Sensei who was instrumental in arranging for Chiba Sensei to come to the U.K. He was sponsored by Mr Logan who lived in the N.East of England [Tynemouth].Chiba Sensei spent time in Sunderland YMCA before going down to London Tempukan.

PAG. And the same to you, despite the weather. Here we (some non-aikido friends and I) celebrated Christmas on Dec 23, with a small dinner party. We had the final class of the year last night, with a couple of kyu grading tests and we have the dojo bonenkai tomorrow. Christmas is really commercial here and the main holiday time is New Year.
In my time the London dojo was the AGB, Aikikai of Great Britain, and we practised next to a bowling alley in Chiswick. I think this was in the very early 70s and I didn't meet any of the people outside London.

This was the period of guys like John Hamilton , Ron Myers Pat Butler, Stuart Appleby , Tommy Pickering and Lee Crow in the N.E. I moved to N/Cle in the 70s and had some contact with these guys.Mr Lockyear MBE was also training away then .

PAG. I remember Arthur--and yourself, of course, but this would have been after I came back from the US in 1975. Chiba Sensei had returned to Japan by then, but frequently visited the UK. I got to know him very well at that time and we talked mainly about the problems he was facing in Japan, with the Hombu Dojo. I had more or less decided to come to live here and these conversations were especially valuable. Of course, we talked a lot about the UK. It was the BAF then and I met some of Sensei's non-aikido supporters in London. The Norwegians had come by that time and we used to go to Tempukan to practise together.

These were good times, sad to say, it all went downhill in after 1976.

PAG. Well, yes, I agree. However, what goes around comes around. The aikido world has radically changed, even since that time, and many of these changes have been for the better. However, I think the Aikikai has been left struggling to keep up with the changes. There has been a maturation of aikido training outside Japan and I doubt whether the Japanese have fully understood what this means. Of course, the shihans who migrated to the US and Europe know this very well, but I have my doubts about the main players in Japan and especially in the Aikikai.

It is very hard to make judgments here, but I really believe that what happened to the Aikikai is a microcosm of what happened to Japan as a whole after the war. There was a general repudiation of the type of mindset that produced kamikaze pilots--and anachronisms like Tadashi Abe, who was as much an anachronism in his time as Sokaku Takeda was in his. However, the general repudiation was accompanied by a kind of nostalgia for the good things that were lost--but with a reluctance to distinguish clearly the good things from the bad. I can see this very clearly here in Hiroshima, which played a central role in this general repudiation of prewar values. The two shihans with whom I discussed this most, before they passed away, were Nobuyoshi Tamura and Seiichi Sugano.

The 'final incident' involving Tadashi Abe took place in 1967, right? Which was two years before O Sensei passed away and Kisshomaru became the second Doshu. If he were to appear now, in 2010, Mr Abe would probably burn the place down. Of course, he would be dismissed as an unfortunate relic of the past.

Cheers, Joe.

All the best to you and yours for 2011.

PAG

[Toby Threadgill]

Francis Takahashi Sensei wrote a very interesting column this month called Winning vs. Not Losing (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19064). Andrew Bedford added a relevant quotation:

A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence.
Yukiyoshi Takamura

This is the interview with Yukiyoshi Takamura the quote was taken from: http://www.shinyokai.com/Takamura%20interview.pdf. The quote is on page 9 and in the very next paragraph on the same page Takamura Sensei says:

I want to make a digression here about the surprising interconnections/nexuses in aikido and budo. If you check out the site with the interview http://www.shinyokai.com/home.htm you can see photos of Toby Threadgill who teaches Takamura ha Shindo Yoshin Ryu (TSYR) and who is a member of aikiweb. This week I saw links to a video of his battojutsu/iai and to an interview with him on a Spanish aikido forum http://www.aikiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=3508. I noticed it particularly because the first technique was a reverse Zatoichi grip draw and I had done a blog post about Zatoichi a week or so earlier...

Hello,

A little clarification might be in order as many people misinterpret Takamura sensei's writings from time to time.

On Tadashi Abe,

When Takamura sensei said Tadashi Abe had "harmony in his eyes" he's not referring the kind of peaceful or passive harmony most westerners equate with the term. To Takamura sensei "harmony" mean't mushin no shin (無心の心), a mind capable of manifesting absolute emotional detachment and mental discipline.

It's too bad Tadashi Abe is not revered more in the greater aikido community as he must have been quite a special man. As Takamura said, "A real credit to Ueshiba's legacy as a martial artist".

Toby Threadgill / TSYR

[Hellis]

Hello Peter

This started my day off with a smile...........

PAG: If he were to appear now, in 2010, Mr Abe would probably burn the place down. Of course, he would be dismissed as an unfortunate relic of the past.

Best wishes for 2011

Henry
Henry Ellis
http://aikidoarticles.blogspot.com/

[Hellis]

What are the names of the books that Abe Sensei wrote?

Jamie

I have placed my books ``in care``.......from memory, the title is

" L' Aikido " ...........

Henry Ellis
http://aikidoarticles.blogspot.com/

[Nicholas Eschenbruch]

FWIW, in the Nocquet lineage, we still practice a kata which was created by Tadashi Abe (who apparently believed that this was a sensible way to structure teaching for Europeans, and may have been influenced in this by Kawaishi Sensei, the founder of Judo in France). This kata was also taught by André Nocquet as integral part of his curriculum: it consists of the five katame waza, each in left/right hanmi and omote/ura version, in a sort of prescribed chain of movement, done either in tachiwaza or suwariwaza. It is presented for shodan/ nidan respectively. No, to my knowledge it is not on youtube, though if anyone wants to make sure I would start searching on the GHAAN website. (From what I hear, this kata actually creates occasional friction in French aikido because the other federations apparently believe there should be no such thing as an empty hand kata in aikido). I always think it's a shame we do not have a greater French participation here on aikiweb. Of those still teaching now, Claude Cebille, for one, was already practicing as a teenager in the 50s and may well remember Abe.

[Peter Goldsbury]

Hello Henry,

Did Abe Tadashi Sensei ever talk to you about the role and responsibility of an uchi-deshi of O Sensei?

The context of this question is the fact that Chiba Sensei returned to Japan around 1974 (I believe), was clearly not welcome at the Aikikai Hombu, and left for the USA in the early 1980s.

The nub of the question (I think--I have not yet thought this through very carefully), concerns the responsibility of the uchi-deshi to protect or safeguard the Way, as established by the Master. I think this also relates to the idea of SHU-HA-RI.

The cases of Abe and Chiba are similar in the sense that they returned to Japan and the Hombu after a spell abroad, and were shocked to find that not only things had changed, but they were absolutely powerless to do anything about it.


All the very best to you for 2011.

PAG

[justin]

sadly I have nothing to add to the thread, but felt I had to say what an excellent thread has to be one of my favorite threads of the year

Very interesting indeed.

[Flintstone]

This kata was also taught by André Nocquet as integral part of his curriculum: it consists of the five katame waza, each in left/right hanmi and omote/ura version, in a sort of prescribed chain of movement, done either in tachiwaza or suwariwaza. It is presented for shodan/ nidan respectively.
Looks like it's his archetypical presentation of the art. Wonder how that kata looks like, but I'm sure it is practical as can be. Could you provide some sort of description here? Thanks!

[Hellis]

Henry,

I kinda get the impression that Tadashi Abe was an allright sort of bloke when the alcohol didn't get the better of him? Albeit he was a tough martial artist in the highest degree.....
It makes one wonder the effects WW2 had on the guy given the unimaginable crap that was going on at the time, what with that, and his personal upbringing......?
Was he ever physically vicious to you personally?
Or was it part and parcel of the training that was the "norm" in those days.....
I remember taking hard ukemi for my 1st teacher Bob Forrest Webb on a hard wooden stage for a demo for some farmers union out in the sticks one night, before I ever got my shodan.....
I was a bit black and blue but it never worried me as I thought it to be the "norm" and just got on with it seeing it as a challenge to be overcome.....
So when I hear that some teachers were severe, were they? Or is that "their version" of how budo should be endured.....?

Tony

Tony

Actually you make several valid points..

Yes, Tadashi Abe was a good man, loyal to OSensei, his country, and the Emperor…Loyalty to ones own country is a rare commodity in Britain these days.

I would imagine the war did leave its mark on those that took part on all sides…I know it had its effects on me as a child and my family.

No, he was never physically vicious to me or anyone else that I was aware of…When I began Aikido I knew full well what I was entering in to, “”a martial art””, not a bingo session or a pottery class. I expected it to be tough, it was !!…

A few months ago Chiba Sensei asked if I thought he was too hard on the dan grades when he made his first visit to the ` Hut Dojo`in 1967. He knew we were testing him, he responded, he thought that he may have hurt a couple of senior students, I explained that was no different to how we trained every night. Hard training was the norm..I explained that he left no injuries, he just smiled.

The early Budo teachers were hard, so were the students, we would have it no other way…

That is one of the problems with Aikido, if they find it hard ? why don’t they join a bingo club, instead, they change Aikido to suit their plastic Samurai needs…here cometh the Aiki- bunny.

Henry
Henry Ellis
http://aikido-controversy.blogspot.com/

[Hellis]

Hello Henry,

Did Abe Tadashi Sensei ever talk to you about the role and responsibility of an uchi-deshi of O Sensei?

The context of this question is the fact that Chiba Sensei returned to Japan around 1974 (I believe), was clearly not welcome at the Aikikai Hombu, and left for the USA in the early 1980s.

The nub of the question (I think--I have not yet thought this through very carefully), concerns the responsibility of the uchi-deshi to protect or safeguard the Way, as established by the Master. I think this also relates to the idea of SHU-HA-RI.

The cases of Abe and Chiba are similar in the sense that they returned to Japan and the Hombu after a spell abroad, and were shocked to find that not only things had changed, but they were absolutely powerless to do anything about it.

All the very best to you for 2011.

PAG

To be honest, I never had the opportunity to sit and have discussions with Tadashi Abe Sensei as I could with Abbe Sensei.

You raise a very interesting fact that I had not paid too much attention to previously...It does appear that the Aikido pioneers such as T Abe ~ M Nakazono ~ M Noro ~ TK Chiba ``all`` experienced problems with the Hombu establishment on their return.
I honestly believe that each one of the above felt they were responsible for safeguarding and protecting ``the way``. It would appear that they were as welcome home as were the hero's from Vietnam... Chiba Sensei's return was a little different, I will pm on this matter...

My thoughts would be.........The teachers named above left the Hombu as pioneers, they returned with their style and spirit unchanged, I believe the Hombu had changed, the dinosaurs were not welcome home....

Regards

Henry

Henry Ellis
http://aikidoarticles.blogspot.com/

[Nicholas Eschenbruch]

Looks like it's his archetypical presentation of the art. Wonder how that kata looks like, but I'm sure it is practical as can be. Could you provide some sort of description here? Thanks!

Hi Alejandro

beyond what I said already, not sure it would make sense to write more: the kata comprises twenty locking techniques with quite precisely prescribed details, so it would be both difficult and probably not very telling to try and go into detail. Sorry... Furthermore, there are at least three variants I am aware of amongst students of André Nocquet, so it has changed over time and I would be writing about now, rather than then.

As for the manner in which it is approached: uke is explicitly collusive; first training goal is precision; then what could be classed as zanshin/intent/ focus; then connection. In some way, with the etremely limited exposition to koryu I have had, it reminds me more of an (initial) presentation of koryu kata than of a standard „post-war“ aikido framework. But that may just be may own teachers’ preferences.

And well, yes, we have a sort of hands-on approach to locks... though I can see a very good point in other approaches as well, nowadays.

[Nicholas Eschenbruch]

I stumbled across this video, apparently featuring Kawaishi Sensei and also Mochizuki Sensei - I think its an interesting indicator of the Budo-Atmosphere in France in the early 50s, when Minoru Mochizuki first introduced aikido, and Tadashi Abe carried on from there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZX5pOcnkAO8&feature=player_detailpage

[Hellis]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Visit the "" Tadashi Abe Sensei "" blogsite.... A site dedicated to the pioneer of Aikido to France in 1952.
Articles ~ Videos ~ Many Photos ~ History ~ Facts & Fiction..

http://tadashi-abe.blogspot.com/

[Tony Wagstaffe]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Visit the "" Tadashi Abe Sensei "" blogsite.... A site dedicated to the pioneer of Aikido to France in 1952.
Articles ~ Videos ~ Many Photos ~ History ~ Facts & Fiction..

http://tadashi-abe.blogspot.com/

Have Henry and its an Excellent site!!!, I refer to it and others for people to look at who phone me and ask about the background of Aikido and what it's all about.... Saves me having to say "why not come along and find out"..... :D ;)

[Hellis]

Have Henry and its an Excellent site!!!, I refer to it and others for people to look at who phone me and ask about the background of Aikido and what it's all about.... Saves me having to say "why not come along and find out"..... :D ;)

Tony

Thanks for the approval, appreciated...
I believe that we should recognise the origins of our Aikido, along with the teachers who went through such difficult times to achieve this.

Henry

Henry Ellis
http://tadashi-abe.blogspot.com/

[jamie yugawa]

http://tadashi-abe.blogspot.com/

This is a great site !!! Any chance of getting bigger pictures of Abe and Abbe Sensei?

[Hellis]

This is a great site !!! Any chance of getting bigger pictures of Abe and Abbe Sensei?

Thanks Jamie !!

Tadashi Abe BlogI have added some more photos...If you scroll down you will see a block of photos...........If you CLICK on PHOTO to ENLARGEyou should get a much larger photo.....

Great 2011 to one and all.

Henry Ellis
http://tadashi-abe.blogspot.com/

[Tony Wagstaffe]

Thanks Jamie !!

Tadashi Abe BlogI have added some more photos...If you scroll down you will see a block of photos...........If you CLICK on PHOTO to ENLARGEyou should get a much larger photo.....

Great 2011 to one and all.

Henry Ellis
http://tadashi-abe.blogspot.com/

And to you Henry for your website and pioneers like you......:)

[Hellis]

And to you Henry for your website and pioneers like you......:)

Tony

Thanks for your comments.

Tadashi Abe Blog
I have managed to dig out both books from the 1950s by Tadashi Abe Sensei. I have now added the covers of both books....

Henry

Henry Ellis
http://tadashi-abe.blogspot.com/

[tlk52]

question: are the forms for 2 people in the beginning part of the later judo katas... maybe Itsutsu no Kata?

[Demetrio Cereijo]

question: are the forms for 2 people in the beginning part of the later judo katas... maybe Itsutsu no Kata?

If you are talking about the video Nicholas linked, then yes.

[Hellis]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICzIR...4D7D22&index=2

This film is of a Tai Sabaki exercise by Tadashi Abe, It was also favoured by Kenshiro Abbe and Nakazono Sensei's. All three teachers would make us do many techniques from this exercise....
This has nothing to do with Judo.

Henry Ellis
http://tadashi-abe.blogspot.com/

[Hellis]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICzIR...4D7D22&index=2

This film is of a Tai Sabaki exercise by Tadashi Abe, It was also favoured by Kenshiro Abbe and Nakazono Sensei's. All three teachers would make us do many techniques from this exercise....
This has nothing to do with Judo.

Henry Ellis
http://tadashi-abe.blogspot.com/

Sorry, the other link didn't work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICzIRYmD1X4&playnext=1&list=PLE5E971B5414D7D22&index=2

Henry Ellis
http://tadashi-abe.blogspot.com/

[jamie yugawa]

Here is a great interview from Aikido Journal with André Nocquet about his experiences with Aikido and Tadashi Abe. I am not sure if you need to subscribe to Aikido Journal to read this article, but it is a great interview!!

http://www.aikidojournal.com/article?articleID=405

[Hellis]

Here is a great interview from Aikido Journal with André Nocquet about his experiences with Aikido and Tadashi Abe. I am not sure if you need to subscribe to Aikido Journal to read this article, but it is a great interview!!

http://www.aikidojournal.com/article?articleID=405

Very interesting article. I don't believe that Andre Nocquet Sensei was truly appreciated for his pioneering achievments in Aikido..

Henry Ellis
http://tadashi-abe.blogspot.com/