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Petlev
10-19-2010, 01:47 AM
This is my first post here, but I have been reading A LOT, and have come across some great information.

I am a newbie, and have only been training for a few months. My whole class is a bunch of newbies to Aikido, with a few of us (including myself) who have studied another MA in the past.

Today Sensei was showing us how to use your ki to get out of a bear hug. He was saying that you let your ki drop down to your hips, which causes you to slide out. He demonstrated and then one by one we went up and did it...everyone was able to do it, or so I thought. I was the last person and he said I was doing it wrong. I did what it looked like others were doing, dropping my weight, and also what I learned in past Chinese martial art I have taken, which is focusing my weight down to my feet. Now I was able to slide out, just like everyone else, but he said I was doing it with no control, which is not true. I have no clue what I did wrong (that he can tell by looking at me) and the way he explained it was what I did. Now I find it hard to believe that out of a whole class of newbies, I was the ONLY one not doing it right, considering the fact that I have past experience with "chi" in Kung Fu, and was able to apply it and not be pushed, stand my ground, etc. while using it. What I mean is that I understand the concept and can't see how I am the one who didn't do it right, although I did it like everyone else.

I don't really know what I am asking here, I am probably just venting...but if anyone can help, that would be great.

WilliB
10-19-2010, 02:12 AM
I don't really know what I am asking here, I am probably just venting...but if anyone can help, that would be great.

I doubt that anyone can remote-diagnose the situation just from your description. If you had a video perhaps.

Petlev
10-19-2010, 02:31 AM
I doubt that anyone can remote-diagnose the situation just from your description. If you had a video perhaps.

LOL, that's funny. :D

Well, like I said, I was probably more venting than anything but I thought maybe someone coming across this may have studied Chinese martial arts as well and maybe there is a difference in "ki" and "chi"..not necessarily the concept, but how it is applied.

When we would use it in Kung Fu, it was more for holding your ground, striking power (one inch punch), etc. We would practice focusing our chi into the ground and people would try and push us over, and we would try and use our chi to stand firm. I have seen video of Ueshiba doing this as well.

niall
10-19-2010, 02:42 AM
You can always ask! You can also try doing what your teacher says. When your teacher says let your ki drop to your hips why don't you try that? That's probably what everybody else tried to do simply while you were trying to put it in the context of what you'd studied before.

guest1234567
10-19-2010, 02:44 AM
LOL, that's funny. :D

Well, like I said, I was probably more venting than anything but I thought maybe someone coming across this may have studied Chinese martial arts as well and maybe there is a difference in "ki" and "chi"..not necessarily the concept, but how it is applied.

When we would use it in Kung Fu, it was more for holding your ground, striking power (one inch punch), etc. We would practice focusing our chi into the ground and people would try and push us over, and we would try and use our chi to stand firm. I have seen video of Ueshiba doing this as well.

I never trained kung fu.... but pratice in class getting out of a bear hug, sorry but I don't believe that you were the only who couldn't do it with all the newbies, you must relaxe your body very much apart from doing what your teacher told you

Petlev
10-19-2010, 03:22 AM
You can always ask! You can also try doing what your teacher says. When your teacher says let your ki drop to your hips why don't you try that? That's probably what everybody else tried to do simply while you were trying to put it in the context of what you'd studied before.

I thought I was doing what he said. That's kind of why I am at a loss.

Petlev
10-19-2010, 03:24 AM
I never trained kung fu.... but pratice in class getting out of a bear hug, sorry but I don't believe that you were the only who couldn't do it with all the newbies, you must relaxe your body very much apart from doing what your teacher told you

Oh, I got out of the bear hug, I slowly slid out like everyone else (no jerking, moving back and forth, etc.) but he said it wasn't what he wanted us to do. I thought I did it that way, but guess not. That's why I am kind of confused why I am the only one he pointed out, we all looked the same, and we all got out of it.

Also, if anyone else did not do it right, he did not voice it.

Demetrio Cereijo
10-19-2010, 03:34 AM
Maybe is your instructor the one who is wrong about ki/chi and you were using it correctly.

¿What is your experience in CMA?

Petlev
10-19-2010, 04:11 AM
Maybe is your instructor the one who is wrong about ki/chi and you were using it correctly.

¿What is your experience in CMA?

Well, I don't think he was wrong. He was explaining it like I know it, and I was doing it like he was saying it (or so I thought). But something he saw, made him say I wasn't. I'm just confused.

My experience in CMA is training in a form of Kung Fu for a few years, a few years ago. Only reason I stopped was because I moved out of state and there wasn't a form like it here where I am at. There is shaolin and wing chun, but what I studied was very different. My Sifu was big in chi and we did something to improve it in every class.

amoeba
10-19-2010, 05:55 AM
Well, maybe there's just a difference between what was done in your former MA and what is done in aikido (in this case). So all the other beginners were attempting to do the technique the way the teacher showed it while you (inadvertedly) did the stuff you already knew instead. Of course, the rest of them probably didn't do it perfecty, either, but they tried to get to the right thing... am I in any way making sense to you?;)

Otherwise, I can only agree: it's hard to say without having seen it. But you know - normally sensei is right in such cases. I've had so many times when I was sure I was doing something right and was told it was wrong after all...;)

Abasan
10-19-2010, 09:13 AM
Ask him to grab you and do it... if it doesn't work, then it doesn't. If it does, it does...

If you still don't get it, grab him.

Janet Rosen
10-19-2010, 10:22 AM
I'd say, don't fret over it. Show up to class and do your best and don't expect to get anything right :-)

phitruong
10-19-2010, 10:35 AM
you know, i never had a bear hug me before. but i am thinking, that if you are a situation where a bear is hugging you, then there was a series of wrong things happened before hand. mind you, if you get hug by a bear, i don't think any amount of ki/chi/gas will get you out (maybe gas). :D

say, you know what the japanese word shoshin mean?

niall
10-19-2010, 11:29 AM
Good point Phi! And if you are attacked by a bear do tomoe nage (a judo sacrifice throw):

http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21022

Demetrio Cereijo
10-19-2010, 11:57 AM
OP has to bear in mind that, for bearing off bears with his bear hands, bearing down his chi maybe is not enough and he will need someone who bears him a hand.

:)

WilliB
10-19-2010, 12:55 PM
Good point Phi! And if you are attacked by a bear do tomoe nage (a judo sacrifice throw):

http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21022

Wouldn´t that be a kuma-nage?

eyrie
10-20-2010, 01:53 AM
if you are [in] a situation where a bear is hugging you... slap it with the salmon?

guest1234567
10-20-2010, 02:24 AM
slap it with the salmon?

:D

Abasan
10-20-2010, 05:09 AM
shoshin - beginners mind

Demetrio Cereijo
10-20-2010, 05:19 AM
But beginners mind is not "tamquam tabula rasa in qua nihil est depictum".

WilliB
10-20-2010, 05:36 AM
But beginners mind is not "tamquam tabula rasa in qua nihil est depictum".

Hmm... while being hugged by a bear, perhaps.

fremoy
10-20-2010, 08:33 AM
Good to hear you're in the inquiry Pete. One thing that's helped me when looking at this stuff is to give up being right. :D
Enjoy your lessons.
Mark.

lbb
10-20-2010, 09:40 AM
slap it with the salmon?

Nah. Do like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVS1UfCfxlU).

ChrisHein
10-21-2010, 12:24 AM
Best way to get out of a bearhug, draw your knife, and stab. If your attacker has the sense to grab your wrist to stop you from stabbing, use any one of the techniques you've learned from studying Aikido.

Don't have a weapon (shame on you), then you should have studied an empty handed grappling system. They teach lots of good bearhug escaping techniques.

Abasan
10-22-2010, 07:52 PM
But beginners mind is not "tamquam tabula rasa in qua nihil est depictum".

I don't know about that, maybe its more like the empty cup.
Some people here have arts they have learned besides Aikido and they incorporate those in their training, be it techniques or principles, but like it as not, if they've some training already... there is some fore-knowledge and experience that has become intrinsic in you. So you can't say, I just do Aikido when I do Aikido, and Silat when I do Silat...

However small an effect it has, you'd probably be moving differently if you hadn't been training in the other art and taking Aikido clean.

But the mind... well I guess the mind is more open when you have a handle on it. In the simplest form, do not question what is being taught and instead to accept and digest. To experience and feel not to rationalise it during training. This method doesn't sit well with most people because they can't afford the luxury of time to prove the lessons are good. If you make instant judgement calls based on the basics you're being taught then its like calling a fisherman a joke when he's trying to teach you where to dig for bait (where's the fish old man?)

So... learning with a beginners mind is different to testing for truth. If you want to test for truth, fight. Winner is correct. :D

Andrew Macdonald
11-13-2010, 07:40 AM
without knowing your sensei or being at the situation i would say it sounds very like some one trying to justify their position. i have come across this many times in a number of disciplines.

A senior person or teacher feels that they must appear to be teaching to continue to be respected. so if he showed the technique and everyone got it easily he may have fet the need to correct some one by the time your turn came up

just another possibility

ninjaqutie
11-15-2010, 11:28 AM
It doesn't involve Ki specifically, nor does it address why you were the one called out..... but I believe if you watch Miss Congeniality, she shows you how to get out of a bearhug via the SING technique (solarplexus, instep, nose & groin) :D

We did that in my old style and it seemed to work pretty good. We would also grab their leg to throw, but be aware if they don't let go, you are going down with them. Things change when they grab you from behind and ALSO pull you backwards.

Sirhoward90
11-15-2010, 03:12 PM
I was the last person and he said I was doing it wrong.

This is a common tool that sensei's use, he didn't set you out of the bunch explicitly because YOU did it wrong, but more likely that he wanted everyone to try it before he began to give his 2 cents. He probably noticed that everyone was doing it wrong.

On the other hand, you should do your best to swallow your pride and listen to him/her. Aikido's definition of "control" is a lot more specific than in many other arts. It sounds as though he was critiquing your control, and relaxation more than your ability to project your ki (which btw I loved your examples of use in CMA, very enlightening).

When I first began at aikido kokikai, i had experience in TKD, Judo, and Jeet Kun Do, and i thought i was perfectly controlled, only after months of training 5 days a week as a an uchi deshi did i find out what control i was lacking.