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nuxie
10-15-2010, 08:17 AM
Howdy all!

I see that in Aikido that everyone wears Hakama pants and a Judo top. I have looked at these on internet and are a bit pricey :)

At what rank etc do you start to wear these items? Also since the people I am training with so far are also newbies like me (exept sensei) is there a belt I should be wearing? I notice one of the firrst ranks is a white belt. So should I hold off wearing a white belt until it is earned? I have been just wearing a normal white Karate gi no belt so far. I am only a couple months into training .

Thanks for the info!
Mary

chillzATL
10-15-2010, 08:32 AM
Howdy all!

I see that in Aikido that everyone wears Hakama pants and a Judo top. I have looked at these on internet and are a bit pricey :)

At what rank etc do you start to wear these items? Also since the people I am training with so far are also newbies like me (exept sensei) is there a belt I should be wearing? I notice one of the firrst ranks is a white belt. So should I hold off wearing a white belt until it is earned? I have been just wearing a normal white Karate gi no belt so far. I am only a couple months into training .

Thanks for the info!
Mary

It varies, the instructor should answer all those questions for you.

Dazzler
10-15-2010, 08:38 AM
Hi Mary

Hakama rules vary from place to place but its really a question for your Sensei. In my experience this is not linked to rank directly but more to demonstration of the attributes associated with a position of responsibility within the dojo.

Within my own group it is usually awarded around 3rd kyu for males but usually earlier for females.

As for the belt thing - wear the white belt or your clothes will fall off !

Regards

D

ps. just seen Jasons reply. Agree.

amoeba
10-15-2010, 08:38 AM
I agree, though I'd say that you normally wear a white belt from the beginning... my Judo Gi at least wouldn't hold without one!;)

nuxie
10-15-2010, 10:27 AM
HaHa to the comment about my clothes falling off. The gui I have now ties on the sides although the area around my chest falls open quite often I am seriously thinking about adding a button there! It is quite annoying ( and yes I do wear a shirt under my gi!!) :p Thanks for the info. I was just sitting in my Math class and of corse my mind was not thinking of math... was cruising ebay for a bokkan and thouhgt hmmm do i need the Hakama yet or not. So now I am going to break out my old white belt and see if it still fits.. Will be interesting to see if I can still wrap it around twice or not.

We wrap twice in hap ki do to support the back etc. Hmm now that makes me wonder what kinda knot you use in the front... several styles do it several different ways. ...
oops there goes my mind again.!! :drool:

by the way I am in my Geology lab now looking at rock samples and my mind wanders from the rock name to aikido stuff...
Of quartz you always stand in Hamni ...stuff like that.
YOu mica want relax so you don't get hurt...
It would be gneiss to sit in seiza again
Aikido is the schist
chert happens..
ok enough of the geology jokes haha.

Lyle Laizure
10-15-2010, 10:40 AM
Too many variables to answer when to buy. Best to check with your sensei. There are a lot of cheaper hakama you can start with though.

Janet Rosen
10-15-2010, 11:28 AM
To secure gi top, rather than a button that can hurt your partner, usual solution is "modesty ties". Easiest way to do that is take a sneaker style shoelace, cut it in half, apply Fraycheck or Elmers type glue to cut ends to prevent raveling, and when dry securely stitch to each side of gi top at or above bustline.

WilliB
10-15-2010, 11:40 AM
HaHa to the comment about my clothes falling off. The gui I have now ties on the sides although the area around my chest falls open quite often I am seriously thinking about adding a button there!

That is a strange description. A karate gi without a belt is a pajama... I have never heard of Japanese MA looking like that. The way I know it, when someone forgets a belt, there is a whole locker room of lost and found stuff where one can borrow one.

And no, buttons dont belong on a gi. Women usually sew a little extra string on the top part of the gi to close it there. You get that as a matter of course in the shop when you buy a gi here... not where you live?

nuxie
10-15-2010, 12:32 PM
We do not have any place to buy martial arts stuff around here. I have to order stuff online. I am planning on buying a judo gi anyway sometime this month. The idea of sewing on a shoestring is a good one and I will probably do that to the one I have now.

Thanks for all the suggestions once again. :)

WilliB
10-15-2010, 01:23 PM
We do not have any place to buy martial arts stuff around here. I have to order stuff online. I am planning on buying a judo gi anyway sometime this month. The idea of sewing on a shoestring is a good one and I will probably do that to the one I have now.

Thanks for all the suggestions once again. :)

Since there are hardly any throws from grabbing a lapel in Aikido, you dont really need a judo gi. A karate gi is just fine, and probably better for women because of the added strings at the bottom.

Unless it is really cold in your place and you want the heavy fabric.

ninjaqutie
10-15-2010, 02:18 PM
Ask your sensei what is appropriate as far as hakama goes. If you are wearing a gi, you should probably be wearing a white about to go along with it since you just started. A typical square knot in the front seems how it is done in most dojos. Ask someone in your when you take your belt. Good luck!

Hellis
10-15-2010, 02:47 PM
The final answer for you will be what your Sensei's standards are ??
They now vary from dojo to dojo.
A judogi will be too heavy, the Karate gi is cheaper and does the job fine.
We still follow the teaching of Kenshiro Abbe Sensei from the inception of Aikido to the UK in 1955. Only dan grades wear a Hakama..It is a special event when reaching dan grade to be presented with a black belt and a Hakama. That is how it was.
As I said ``things have changed `` we have not.

Henry Ellis
http://aikidoarticles.blogspot.com/

Chris Li
10-15-2010, 06:24 PM
The final answer for you will be what your Sensei's standards are ??
They now vary from dojo to dojo.
A judogi will be too heavy, the Karate gi is cheaper and does the job fine.
We still follow the teaching of Kenshiro Abbe Sensei from the inception of Aikido to the UK in 1955. Only dan grades wear a Hakama..It is a special event when reaching dan grade to be presented with a black belt and a Hakama. That is how it was.
As I said ``things have changed `` we have not.

Henry Ellis
http://aikidoarticles.blogspot.com/

Of course, the post war custom of getting hakama when achieving a dan grade is itself a change from the customs of the Founder:

"When I was uchi deshi to O Sensei, everyone was required to wear a hakama for practice, beginning with the first time they stepped on the mat. There were no restrictions on the type of hakama you could wear then, so the dojo was a very colorful place. One saw hakama of all sorts, all colors and all qualities, from kendo hakama, to the striped hakama used in Japanese dance, to the costly silk hakama called sendai-hira. I imagine that some beginning student caught the devil for borrowing his grandfather's expensive hakama, meant to be worn only for special occasions and ceremonies, and wearing out its knees in suwariwaza practice.

I vividly remember the day that I forgot my hakama. I was preparing to step on the mat for practice, wearing only my dogi, when O Sensei stopped me. "Where is your hakama?" he demanded sternly. "What makes you think you can receive your teacher's instruction wearing nothing but your underwear? Have you no sense of propriety? You are obviously lacking the attitude and the etiquette necessary in one who pursues budo training. Go sit on the side and watch class!"

This was only the first of many scoldings I was to receive from O Sensei. However, my ignorance on this occasion prompted O Sensei to lecture his uchi deshi after class on the meaning of the hakama. He told us that the hakama was traditional garb for kobudo students and asked if any of us knew the reason for the seven pleats in the hakama.

"They symbolize the seven virtues of budo," O Sensei said. "These are jin (benevolence), gi (honor or justice), rei (courtesy and etiquette), chi (wisdom, intelligence), shin (sincerity), chu (loyalty), and koh (piety). We find these qualities in the distinguished samurai of the past. The hakama prompts us to reflect on the nature of true bushido. Wearing it symbolizes traditions that have been passed down to us from generation to generation. Aikido is born of the bushido spirit of Japan, and in our practice we must strive to polish the seven traditional virtues."

Currently, most Aikido dojo do not follow O Sensei's strict policy about wearing the hakama. Its meaning has degenerated from a symbol of traditional virtue to that of a status symbol for yudansha. I have traveled to many dojo in many nations. In many of the places where only the yudansha wear hakama, the yudansha have lost their humility. They think of the hakama as a prize for display, as the visible symbol of their superiority. This type of attitude makes the ceremony of bowing to O Sensei, with which we begin and end each class, a mockery of his memory and his art.

Worse still, in some dojo, women of kyu rank (and only the women) are required to wear hakama, supposedly to preserve their modesty. To me this is insulting and discriminatory to women Aikidoka. It is also insulting to male Aikidoka, for it assumes a low-mindedness on their part that has no place on the Aikido mat.

To see the hakama put to such petty use saddens me. It may seem a trivial issue to some people, but I remember very well the great importance that O Sensei placed on wearing hakama. I cannot dismiss the significance of this garment, and no one, I think, can dispute the great value of the virtues it symbolizes. In my dojo and its associated schools I encourage all students to wear hakama regardless of their rank or grade. (I do not require it before they have achieved their first grading, since beginners in the United States do not generally have Japanese grandfathers whose hakama they can borrow.) I feel that wearing the hakama and knowing its meaning, helps students to be aware of the spirit of O Sensei and keep alive his vision.

If we can allow the importance of the hakama to fade, perhaps we will begin to allow things fundamental to the spirit of Aikido to slip into oblivion as well. If, on the other hand, we are faithful to O Sensei's wishes regarding our practice dress, our spirits may be more faithful to the dream to which he dedicated his life."

Best,

Chris

nuxie
10-15-2010, 06:52 PM
I really like that article you posted. I love tradition myself. I did not realize however that there were differnt kinds and that the pleats ment so much. Thanks so much forr the article. I love history.

Janet Rosen
10-15-2010, 07:54 PM
Women usually sew a little extra string on the top part of the gi to close it there. You get that as a matter of course in the shop when you buy a gi here... not where you live?

In the States, no. All gi are sold as if for a man, no modesty ties as I've seen on women visiting from Japan. We are left to do it ourselves and most don't, opting to wear t-shirt underneath instead. Me, I don't like having extra layers n warm weather so always add ties as part of my routine dogi modifications.

WilliB
10-16-2010, 02:40 AM
In the States, no. All gi are sold as if for a man, no modesty ties as I've seen on women visiting from Japan. We are left to do it ourselves and most don't, opting to wear t-shirt underneath instead. Me, I don't like having extra layers n warm weather so always add ties as part of my routine dogi modifications.

The t-shirt under dogi is not an alternative to the "modesty string" -- women do that anyway. And men too, in winter when it is cold.

Personally, I would not mind the ladies being naked under the gi, but frankly, I think that could get a bit distracting. :-)

Demetrio Cereijo
10-16-2010, 05:41 AM
Chris, what you quoted is not from Okumura Sensei but from Saotome Sensei.

Btw, does anyone know when "seven virtues of budo" became associated wtih joba hakama pleats?. It seems to me this is another "invented tradition".

shakou
10-16-2010, 07:15 AM
Personally, I would not mind the ladies being naked under the gi, but frankly, I think that could get a bit distracting. :-)

An honest, if not risqu answer.....

nuxie
10-16-2010, 08:22 AM
Seriously? You don't wear a short under the gi ... Hahaha what would happen if there was a gi malfunction? Lmfa
so does this also mean you guys don't wear a cup?

shakou
10-16-2010, 09:54 AM
I don't wear a cup, never have. Never saw the reason to in aikido. I have had sore nether regions when doing ko-shi-nage but that was from not spreading my legs, had I had a cup on it would have been a tad worse :D

shakou
10-16-2010, 10:15 AM
Just to answer your question thoug, I got my hakama at 5th kyu. We were encouraged to buy them as they do help with foot work and posture.

Janet Rosen
10-16-2010, 11:27 AM
The t-shirt under dogi is not an alternative to the "modesty string" -- women do that anyway. And men too, in winter when it is cold.

Personally, I would not mind the ladies being naked under the gi, but frankly, I think that could get a bit distracting. :-)

I assure you there is nothing distracting about a properly tied gi over a sports bra.

Chris Li
10-16-2010, 11:53 AM
Chris, what you quoted is not from Okumura Sensei but from Saotome Sensei.

Btw, does anyone know when "seven virtues of budo" became associated wtih joba hakama pleats?. It seems to me this is another "invented tradition".

You're right - the AIkido FAQ had the quote wrong. I don't know about the meanings, but if you search on "т̐܂--" in Japanese it comes up with quite a few results on the meanings.

For example:

http://www.tostem-fc.jp/blog.php?post_cmd=kosin&post_blogdir=5000120&post_eid=117982

Best,

Chris

amoeba
10-16-2010, 12:38 PM
Hm, my Judo Gi hold quite well (with a Hakama, before it was kinda more lose), so I wear just a sports bra and no "modesty string". Don't really see any reason for one, it very rarely opens up so far and if it does, my bra still looks quite modest - it covers quite a lot!
One of those:
http://www.dessousfashion.de/shop/Media/Shop/triaction_sport-bh_extreme.jpg

Janet Rosen
10-16-2010, 01:12 PM
Yep, I use Natori but any good, properly sized (as opposed to S/M/L) sports bra should obviate the need for a tshirt except if one needs extra layer for cool weather (I've been known to show up w/ thermal underwear n winter....)

nuxie
10-16-2010, 04:12 PM
I am going to go ahead and order a judo gi on Monday and perhaps hit up kohls for a sports bra. I never thought about a sports bra. I am a pretty good chested lady. I do think I will see how well the Judo gi stays shut and decide on the modesty string after that. Thanks Ladies for the Ideas!!
:)
Mary

RED
10-16-2010, 08:13 PM
I'm wondering why none of these things was explain to the OP by their dojo before they started training?

lbb
10-16-2010, 08:32 PM
I'm wondering why none of these things was explain to the OP by their dojo before they started training?

Based on the original description, it sounds like this is a beginner class where the rest of the class is perhaps also not wearing "standard" aikido attire.

Shadowfax
10-16-2010, 09:01 PM
In my dojo we are allowed and encouraged to start wearing one after we pass our first (6th kyu) test. I bought my first one a few months after I passed but had an old one on loan from the dojo until I was able to buy my own.

I really like wearing mine. In fact the few tomes Ive trained without one on since starting. I've kinda felt naked. LOL sort of like I was training in my underwear.;)

Best thing to do is ask your teachers what the rules of the dojo are on wearing hackama. As has been mentioned every place has their own way of doing it.

nuxie
10-16-2010, 10:37 PM
The deal with the dojo is we are practicing with another martial arts school. We pay to attend their school an they let us work off to the side in our own style. So there are several styles of martial arts being done there. Jeff was just very kind to work with me in Aikido as he was already had two people he was teaching. So it is more of a small group of people working out. There are more people finding out about us and are asking to join in. one night we had I believe 5 people. So it is very casual. We bow in , warm up and start doing techniques. Jeff has been teaching us. I had just gotten home from class when all these questions came raging into my brain and though it would be a good starting point for talking on the board. I am sure if I ask him etc he will tell me. He has mentioned I should just get a judo gi for now etc etc. I was just interested how people do things on a larger scale. I will probably ask him all these questions when I see him on Monday for training. There is a "dedicated" ( i mean by that is Aikido only school set up with great mats ertc. ) in Owensboro that I believe he attends regularly. I have been invited to join there. I am also planning on going sometime on a Saturday there.

What we have now is in a church gym with umm well cheap mats that are very hard. The group there is where I used to train in Jui Jitsu, and Karate for a while. When I came back after my ACL surgery I met Jeff who was working in Aikido and decided to go that path instead.

Hopefully our group will grow and we can make a more dedicated dojo etc for Aikido in Evansville. :) Thats our goal anyway.

So explain away!! :) Always neato to hear from everyone's experiences.

WilliB
10-16-2010, 10:53 PM
....He has mentioned I should just get a judo gi for now etc etc. ....

I`d like to repeat that, unless you live in a really cold place, a Karate gi is more suitable for Aikido than a Judo gi.

Your wardrobe choice with Hakama etc. will also depend on which style of Aikido you want to do. The generic term "Aikido" covers a lot of space.

Janet Rosen
10-17-2010, 01:30 AM
I`d like to repeat that, unless you live in a really cold place, a Karate gi is more suitable for Aikido than a Judo gi.

Some places do a lot of shoulder grabs and koshis and like the judogi for that. But I pretty much dress as you describe it: I wear karate type gi in the summer and judo gi in the winter!

Chris Li
10-17-2010, 01:45 AM
Some places do a lot of shoulder grabs and koshis and like the judogi for that. But I pretty much dress as you describe it: I wear karate type gi in the summer and judo gi in the winter!

I've actually shredded quite a few straps on karategi - depends where you train. Judogi give a little more padding between you and the mat, though.

Best,

Chris

Pauliina Lievonen
10-17-2010, 03:06 AM
I prefer a judogi myself. We do do some shoulder grabs where it's handy, and I like the extra padding it gives like Chris said.

I actually even like the judogi in the summer. The thickness of the material means that it absorbs sweat well an doesn't stick to me.

kvaak
Pauliina

WilliB
10-17-2010, 07:43 AM
I prefer a judogi myself. We do do some shoulder grabs where it's handy, and I like the extra padding it gives like Chris said.

I actually even like the judogi in the summer. The thickness of the material means that it absorbs sweat well an doesn't stick to me.

kvaak
Pauliina

Not arguing, but do you really practise Judo throws that would rip a Karate gi to shreds eventually, like tai-otoshi and seoi-nage? We dont. And for the normal Aikido label grabs, the Karate gi is strong enough, no problem.

You are right about the sweat, though. The Karate gi is more comfortable in summer, until it gets completely soaked. Then it feels yucki. A bummer either way.

amoeba
10-17-2010, 02:42 PM
I like the thicker fabric better... I do own a karate gi (very light one) and it feels kinda flimsy to me. Other impertant point: judo gi have kneepads, karate gi don't! And those are really good for all the rolling. Also, I believe that judo trousers give you more freedom for rolls etc - they're shorter and wider that the karate ones.

Pauliina Lievonen
10-17-2010, 03:43 PM
Not arguing, but do you really practise Judo throws that would rip a Karate gi to shreds eventually, like tai-otoshi and seoi-nage? We dont. And for the normal Aikido label grabs, the Karate gi is strong enough, no problem.
Well, no, not something that would rip the keikogi to shreds. But I have dojomates with karate gi (some people in our dojo do wear them) and it doesn't give such a nice grip. So as uke it's also easier to work with a judo gi IMO. Just my personal preference.

I have sewn extra ties to all my keikogi tops at some point or another, and they have all been ripped off again. So that gives you some indication of our practice perhaps. Or just my sewing skills. :D

kvaak
Pauliina

nuxie
10-17-2010, 10:08 PM
Well one thing about the karate gi I am wearing now is it is a bit light fabric and during stretches I feel as if I am advertising my undies :) It looks to me that the Judo gi's have a longer top and I do like the idea of the padded knees. A longer top means that it wont bunch up and come un-tucked from the belt as easy( saves me from having to constantly pull my gi down and adjust it)

Yes it gets very very very cold here in Southern Indiana in the winter time. In Hap Ki Do we used to also wear shoes that were very flexible and made of thin fabric.

WilliB
10-17-2010, 10:19 PM
Well one thing about the karate gi I am wearing now is it is a bit light fabric and during stretches I feel as if I am advertising my undies :) It looks to me that the Judo gi's have a longer top and I do like the idea of the padded knees.

About the padded knees, the extra fabric layer in the judo gi does not make much of a difference. Most of the older folks here use kneepads (like for volleyball) under the gi anyway, I think it is a good idea for younger folks too.

ninjaqutie
10-17-2010, 10:58 PM
I think it is just personal preference. I prefer the judo style gi (even in the summer). I like the weight, the way they feel and they do soak up sweat nice. At one point in time, Chiba sensei would only allow people to wear judo style gi. As for the judo pants, I think the extra layer helps with durability with all the suwariwaza. I would go through pants a lot faster if I didn't have that extra layer (unless you get really thick canvas karate pants). Either way, whatever your sensei says comes first, then your personal preference comes into play. :)

Hellis
10-18-2010, 04:57 PM
I bought my first Judo gi in 1956, it cost me 4, that was a lot of money in those days. It was value for money as it is still good to this day...It was the gi I wore for a demonstration by Kenshiro Abbe Sensei in front of Lady Baden Powell at the BJC National Championships in 1964, a knife attack made a neat hole in the gi, I recently gave the gi to my students in New Mexico as a souvenir.
They are like an overcoat in the summer but never seem to wear out.
Henry Ellis
http://aikidoarticles.blogspot.com/

Randall Lim
10-22-2010, 03:20 AM
Howdy all!

I see that in Aikido that everyone wears Hakama pants and a Judo top. I have looked at these on internet and are a bit pricey :)

At what rank etc do you start to wear these items? Also since the people I am training with so far are also newbies like me (exept sensei) is there a belt I should be wearing? I notice one of the firrst ranks is a white belt. So should I hold off wearing a white belt until it is earned? I have been just wearing a normal white Karate gi no belt so far. I am only a couple months into training .

Thanks for the info!
Mary

In my club (Tendoryu Aikido), a Hakama may be worn by any adult who has passed his/her first grading (6th Kyu). Gentlemen may choose between a black one & a dark blue one, while ladies have an additional choice of dark Maroon.

In my club, there are two classes of Hakama to choose from:

(1) Made-in-China Cotton (US$50)

(2) Made-in-Japan Cotton-Silk (US$100)

As for the Gi top, we are flexible. I personally wear a thein Karate Gi top, while some of my club-mates wear thick Judo Gis, while others wear those in between (medium thick).

As for the belt, we all wear belts, be it novice or not. Any white Karate, Judo etc belt will do. But I personally prefer a Karate belt because it is softer & more comfortable.

nuxie
11-01-2010, 11:35 PM
Just a little update on here. I finally broke down and paid the big bucks for the judo gi.. Oh lordie I love it already.. It stays put even when it gets crazy. I love how the top is longer in the torso.. Of course I had to do some hardcore hemming of the arms and legs to get it to fit my short self. Well worth the money. Thanks everyone for your input on this. I am now going to keep my eyeballs peeled on ebay for a reasonably priced Hakama to buy myself for Christmas. Although I prob wont wear it until 2nd rank. Now I am wondering is black the only color permitted or can I got with hot pink ? JK but I do see a wide variety of colors and styles.

Pauliina Lievonen
11-02-2010, 11:17 AM
I own a hot pink hakama. :D But I'm not allowed on the mat with it. :(

Pauliina

kewms
11-02-2010, 12:29 PM
Just a little update on here. I finally broke down and paid the big bucks for the judo gi.. Oh lordie I love it already.. It stays put even when it gets crazy. I love how the top is longer in the torso.. Of course I had to do some hardcore hemming of the arms and legs to get it to fit my short self. Well worth the money. Thanks everyone for your input on this. I am now going to keep my eyeballs peeled on ebay for a reasonably priced Hakama to buy myself for Christmas. Although I prob wont wear it until 2nd rank. Now I am wondering is black the only color permitted or can I got with hot pink ? JK but I do see a wide variety of colors and styles.

Make sure you get one that's intended for martial arts training. One designed as ordinary (or formal) clothing probably won't hold up well.

Blue and black are the most common colors. You might check with your instructor before you put down the money, though, especially if you're considering a non-standard color.

Katherine

reyne caritativo
11-13-2010, 09:40 AM
Hi to all,
I've read that article in Saotome Sensei's book about O'sensei allowing all aikidokas to wear a hakama. My first sensei also allowed us kyu grade aikidokas to wear one during practice. When I was transferred to another city for my work in an airline company, I joined a dojo wherein the sensei only allows a yudansha to wear a hakama during keiko, so I ended up wearing a gi without a hakama for practice training. But this was not a problem for me, since my interest was on my training and not on what I will be wearing for practice. Wearing a hakama during that time was a status symbol on this dojo and this status was to be earned by training regularly. When I became a yudansha, wearing a hakama means proving yourself that you are worth wearing it. If you are really serious in your aikido training, you can buy a hakama even though you are still in your kyu rank and make this a goal that you have to pursue.

Rob Watson
11-13-2010, 02:38 PM
It doesn't look like anyone answered the question about when to buy a hakama...Never buy a hakama. It should be a gift presented by someone who loves you.

Krystal Locke
11-13-2010, 03:46 PM
It doesn't look like anyone answered the question about when to buy a hakama...Never buy a hakama. It should be a gift presented by someone who loves you.

I love me enough to buy myself a hak, and I love my friends and family so much that I wont ask them to put out that much money. Besides, I need to make sure it fits right, might as well just pay for it, too. Too much hassle for my peeps.

Hard to find a decent one for < $100 bucks, if that. Don't go for those Century Ebay specials, they wont hold up well. Go for Iwata, Tozando, etc.

When is Bujin coming back?!?!?!?

Lyle Laizure
11-13-2010, 04:59 PM
I own a hot pink hakama. :D But I'm not allowed on the mat with it. :(

Pauliina

Hot pink, wow! You are welcome to wear it if you ever visit my dojo.