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Buck
08-17-2010, 09:04 AM
Once you reach your 20's it is recommend to check your cholesterol every four years or so, and as you hit the target age even more frequently. There is one study that says high cholesterol levels isn't the problem when it comes to heart disease. It blames increased inflammation, rancid LDL and arterial damage (resulting in plaque and its build up and leads to heat disease), for increased production of cholesterol, instead of diet (reducing cholesterol intake by not eating designated foods). Which includes the targeting of the reduction of LDL levels to dangerous levels of less than 130 (total cholesterol) via drugs. It suggests to reduce damage that causes that increases cholesterol. The study doesn't differentiate good vs. bad cholesterol. That is to reduce LDL and increase HDL. It says to just reduce damage and your levels will naturally return to normal. So basically it says, you don't need drugs or be on a special cholesterol reducing diet. But rather, in place of drug treatment and diet is to reduce the things that cause damage to the cells that increases total cholesterol levels.

With that said, Aikido does do damage to the body, as inflammation and may damage arteries (tears result in plaque being like a scab over the tear). We take Ukemi/falls, and in the process of training damage cells and arteries. We also don't get the proper exercise out of Aikido to get the blood circulating to the point where is compensates for the increased cholesterol production. So, my question is, does Aikido raise cholesterol levels for the average cholesterol production?

Something to think about.

ninjaqutie
08-17-2010, 10:17 AM
I don't beleive so, but that is an uneducated guess. I personally don't think aikido is going to give me higher cholesterol over the years. My dojo does get pretty rigorous at times though, so I feel like I get decent cardio; not to say cardio on my own wouldn't be a bad thing.

Keith Larman
08-17-2010, 11:23 AM
Wow, Buck, talk about gross oversimplification. And a variety of logic errors.

From someone dealing with all sorts of inflammation issues... The "Inflammation" they're talking about in these sorts of medical stories is the type caused in general by dietary habits (or disease or drug side-effects). It is not the case that you going out and spending 3 hours on a nikyo-fest-marathon will cause your cholesterol levels to change due to the inflammation to your wrists caused by overenthusiastic newbs. That is separate. What you might find is that if you are suffering from the type of inflammation they're referring to in these articles you will likely find yourself more sore after that session as compared to someone else who has less inflammation in their systems.

I.e., you're confusing the cause and effect here. What you wrote makes no sense whatsoever. It's like saying eating a lot of donuts makes you fat around the middle because donuts are round and when you get fat you look like you have a donut going around you... Yes, eating a lot of donuts might make you fat. But the shape isn't the cause.

Inflammation caused by exercise does not cause the inflammation they're referring to in these articles. Exercise via aikido won't hurt, and can help all things being equal (notice big qualifier). Nonetheless, Buck, what you posted is nonsense.

lbb
08-17-2010, 11:25 AM
O
With that said, Aikido does do damage to the body, as inflammation and may damage arteries (tears result in plaque being like a scab over the tear). We take Ukemi/falls, and in the process of training damage cells and arteries.

You're making a pretty far-fetched supposition, here: that the "inflammation" caused by soft-tissue stresses in aikido practice is somehow related to the "inflammation" in "inflammatory" heart disease. I'm no expert on the subject, but as far as I know, "inflammation" is a very generic term, almost like "pain": it is not a cause so much as a symptom that can arise from many different and unrelated causes. If you can produce any support for a statement such as "Aikido...may damage arteries", I'd love to see it.

btw, unless you are a professional in the field, you really should provide a citation for the study whose results you are paraphrasing in your post.

(on edit: what Keith said)

Janet Rosen
08-17-2010, 11:47 AM
Yep, the list nurse says "apples and oranges." No correlation.

Buck
08-17-2010, 03:13 PM
Wow, Buck, talk about gross oversimplification. And a variety of logic errors.

From someone dealing with all sorts of inflammation issues... The "Inflammation" they're talking about in these sorts of medical stories is the type caused in general by dietary habits (or disease or drug side-effects). It is not the case that you going out and spending 3 hours on a nikyo-fest-marathon will cause your cholesterol levels to change due to the inflammation to your wrists caused by overenthusiastic newbs. That is separate. What you might find is that if you are suffering from the type of inflammation they're referring to in these articles you will likely find yourself more sore after that session as compared to someone else who has less inflammation in their systems.

I.e., you're confusing the cause and effect here. What you wrote makes no sense whatsoever. It's like saying eating a lot of donuts makes you fat around the middle because donuts are round and when you get fat you look like you have a donut going around you... Yes, eating a lot of donuts might make you fat. But the shape isn't the cause.

Inflammation caused by exercise does not cause the inflammation they're referring to in these articles. Exercise via aikido won't hurt, and can help all things being equal (notice big qualifier). Nonetheless, Buck, what you posted is nonsense.

Keith, Mary and company, I know medicine isn't everyone's specialty, or your background, and this is on the level of medical research, which again not everyone is qualified on that level. Nor is it mine, or am I. But, I regularly talk with doctors, some medical doctor friends a part of my medical network. I do happen to have access to medical journals and other stuff as well. And this stuff gets pretty complicated without a good understanding of medicine and medical research. So misreading and understanding prevail. And, I know where you're coming from, and thus understand why you posted what you did. At this point there is a concert belief aligned with Keith I will address him for connivence, yet speaking and addressing you Mary and your concerns.

To help you out. And I am willing to put it is simpler and other terms, because it can be confusing. I used hyper links on terms for you to help you out. I suggest you read those links, as they also point to the myth the study talks about. I understand you didn't read the study either. This makes it difficult for you to get the full picture.

The study I read addresses the Cholesterol (http://www.medicinenet.com/cholesterol/article.htm) Myth (http://www.medicinenet.com/your_cholesterol_profile_-_in_depth/article.htm). That myth (http://www.medicinenet.com/your_cholesterol_profile_-_in_depth/article.htm) in a nut shell is you have to lower your Low Density Lipids (http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=15383), and raise your High Density Lipids though drug therapy (taking Statins (http://www.medicinenet.com/statins/article.htm)combined with diet and exercise.

The study suggests there are other reasons for increased Cholesterol levels. The study looks at what triggers the body to produce extra cholesterol in the body and avoiding those triggers. The thought is that once the triggers are removed or lessened in frequency the body then will resume to normal Cholesterol production and levels. Simply stop or avoid the things that happen in the body (not diet) that result in the body making more Cholesterol. One suggestion was to reduce inflammation (http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=3979). Another definition (http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/inflammation)

Given these medical definitions of inflammation, we can see the activity of Aikido can and does result in inflammation. Therefore, we can look at if the body reacts by increasing Cholesterol to the inflammation of Aikido practice, i.e. primarily taking Ukemi resulting in wide spread inflammation, and not localize inflammation. Ukemi related to wide spread chronic inflammation disease, thereby, resulting in the body to signal to increase Cholesterol production. If you don't get that I will be glad to expand in greater detail how that happens later. Just ask :)

Basically that is what this is about. I am just looking at the study and possible relationship it has to Aikido and Ukemi. You might be thinking, well...what about non-pain wazas? They don't cause inflammation. True, but again I am looking at Ukemi. Especially, Ukemi that is hard and being repetitive and hard Ukemi overtime. I also include medium Ukemi. And I am less worried about soft Ukemi. The impact of hard Ukemi can cause greater inflammation then soft Ukemi. This also includes a mat density and recoil that of Judo mats. Which do to my rating system (very simplified explanation for the purpose of comparison) is a 4. A rating of a 10 is very soft like that of those 2+ feet thick big form gymnastics mat. A rating of 1 is a wood floor. Highly dense and little or no. Unless your falling on a 10 rated mat your suffering impacts that contribute to inflammation.

Does this make Aikido bad activity no, it means looking at Aikido and its impact on the body. Does Aikido result in high Cholesterol levels? Don't know, that is something to look into if it does or doesn't. I understand that for some reason this post is a burr in your blanket and per your post. I think that is because you didn't understand my post per your response to my post.

Let me assure you this is all hypothetical and up for discussion. Why, well this may be helpful for people to know, I don't know. My goal is to share information with my fellow Aikidoka to help them, to be helped, and all that good stuff. And my fellow Aikidoka can make the determination the value this information has to them, something I totally support. To make a better and more inform Aikido network and community is something I want to be a part. And I hope you all do too. Unless it is your habit to do otherwise, and if so it is just a waste of time. As no one is being helped. :)

Buck
08-17-2010, 03:40 PM
You may think I am saying Ukemi is bad, no. I am saying I wonder if the inflammation experienced as a result of Ukemi triggers Cholesterol, it may not. Now, I don't expect anyone to give that answer medically but for people to rather look at, and discuss the possibilities either way. Because if you are taking statins they do have side effects like weakness, muscle pain, susceptibility to muscle cramping, which can hinder, limit etc. practice.

I am also interested in the frequency and degree of inflammation and its relation to taking Ukemi and levels of Cholesterol production.

Buck
08-17-2010, 05:05 PM
Thanks you to Ashley for your comments and the "List Nurse" Janet as well.

I wonder too Ashley, if Aikido at your level of cardio keeps the Cholesterol levels down. I would think that would be the total Cholesterol levels and not just the LDL levels specifically.

To the resident "List Nurse" Janet, I ask why is it apples and oranges? Please, let us know what is your professional opinion on this? Do you see high HDL Cholesterol levels among patients experiencing inflammation. For example, patients with chronic arthritis in many joints of the body, and not just in the hands? And what do you see wrong with this study, and why?

I am interested in your POV.

Janet Rosen
08-17-2010, 05:45 PM
I am not aware of any published studies even suggesting, much less documenting, a correlation between arthritis and cholesterol/altered lipid levels.

I am not aware of any studies that support your thesis that working out or falling damages arterial walls.

Keith Larman
08-17-2010, 06:41 PM
To help you out. And I am willing to put it is simpler and other terms, because it can be confusing.

How very generous of you to help out those of us who aren't quite as brilliant as you. And since you *will* intentionally misread that statement, that was sarcasm. Meaning my honest assessment is that you are a raging twit on this topic.

That out of the way, you are using the word "inflammation" as if it is one, simple thing. Which it is not. And it is well beyond the scope of this forum because talking to you is like talking to a ninny who insists on being told why they're wrong when they intentionally misread and otherwise avoid any attempt to clarify.

So Buck, by all means stop practicing Aikido. It is probably killing you -- all that plaque (you know, the awards you get for doing something good, the stuff that forms on teeth, the stuff that forms on arterial walls -- it's all the same -- same word, right?) from you practicing and exerting is building up as you type. Better go lie down quietly in the dark. Don't want to build up "inflammation" by breathing too hard...

Now that I think about it, there's also the plaque that builds up in the brain in Alzheimer's patients... maybe there is something to this after all...

Sheesh...

Rob Watson
08-17-2010, 08:15 PM
For example, patients with chronic arthritis in many joints of the body, and not just in the hands?

I am not aware of any published studies even suggesting, much less documenting, a correlation between arthritis and cholesterol/altered lipid levels.

While not about cholesterols I have been wondering much more of late just how much of our general health problems are more likely related to what lives in our guts.

Breaking news: Arthritis prevented or caused by intestinal microbes! Immunity 32, 815 (2010) http://www.cell.com/immunity/abstract/S1074-7613%2810%2900204-9?script=true

More gut bugs news
http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2010/08/western-diet-tied-to-intestinal-.html

And yet more gut bugs news
http://stm.sciencemag.org/content/2/43/43ps39.abstract?sid=609889b6-a628-4c9f-953e-4d9a4e62f3a4

Be careful whom you swap fluids with as the bugs lurking therein may be nasty in ways big and small.

Does everyone know there are more bacteria in ones guts than there are cells in our bodies? Really unsettling when pondered upon. At least one is never alone ....

lbb
08-17-2010, 08:20 PM
Keith, Mary and company, I know medicine isn't everyone's specialty, or your background, and this is on the level of medical research, which again not everyone is qualified on that level. Nor is it mine, or am I. But, I regularly talk with doctors, some medical doctor friends a part of my medical network. I do happen to have access to medical journals and other stuff as well. And this stuff gets pretty complicated without a good understanding of medicine and medical research. So misreading and understanding prevail. And, I know where you're coming from, and thus understand why you posted what you did. At this point there is a concert belief aligned with Keith I will address him for connivence, yet speaking and addressing you Mary and your concerns.

To help you out. And I am willing to put it is simpler and other terms, because it can be confusing. I used hyper links on terms for you to help you out. I suggest you read those links, as they also point to the myth the study talks about. I understand you didn't read the study either. This makes it difficult for you to get the full picture.

Indeed, because you have yet to provide a reference to said study. Could it be that this study doesn't exist? Or that it says nothing at all that could support your conjecture about aikido and the sort of inflammation that leads to heart disease? You really don't have to use baby talk, Buck -- I do know a few things about inflammation, and I'm capable of critical and logical thinking, so you're not likely to overwhelm my cognitive faculties. Just skip the condescension and produce the facts.

The study I read
...still no citation...

addresses the Cholesterol (http://www.medicinenet.com/cholesterol/article.htm) Myth (http://www.medicinenet.com/your_cholesterol_profile_-_in_depth/article.htm).

Links to two general articles about cholesterol, neither of which contains the word "myth".

The study

...still no citation...



Well now, that's interesting. In your original post, with your vague references to aikido and inflammation, you seemed to be speculating that the soft-tissue inflammation of aikido injuries could somehow contribute to heart disease. Now you're trying to somehow connect inflammation and cholesterol levels. While certain kinds of inflammation and high cholesterol levels are both believed to contribute to heart disease, I've never heard anyone suggest that one contributes to the other. You've got the cause and effect hopelessly confused here.

[QUOTE=Philip Burgess;263158]Given these medical definitions of inflammation, we can see the activity of Aikido can and does result in inflammation.

Sure -- in localized inflammation consistent with injury. It doesn't produce huge rushes of CRP in your bloodstream, which is what's believed to contribute to heart disease -- not to elevated cholesterol levels.

Therefore, we can look at if the body reacts by increasing Cholesterol to the inflammation of Aikido practice, i.e. primarily taking Ukemi resulting in wide spread inflammation, and not localize inflammation. Ukemi related to wide spread chronic inflammation disease, thereby, resulting in the body to signal to increase Cholesterol production. If you don't get that I will be glad to expand in greater detail how that happens later. Just ask :)

I have asked. You haven't provided. I don't think you can, or will.

Does this make Aikido bad activity no, it means looking at Aikido and its impact on the body. Does Aikido result in high Cholesterol levels? Don't know, that is something to look into if it does or doesn't. I understand that for some reason this post is a burr in your blanket and per your post. I think that is because you didn't understand my post per your response to my post.

Buck strikes again! First you post nonsense. Then someone points out that it's nonsense. Then you suggest that they're an idiot and that gosh, you just can't imagine why they're having such a silly stupid irrational reaction, but you're willing to use small words and help their comprehension, because they clearly don't get it -- otherwise they'd agree with you.

I understand your post just fine. It's a lot of stuff and nonsense. If you feel that your aikido training is going to cause some kind of "inflammation" that will lead to heart disease, however, you should probably discontinue your practice (assuming that you are actually practicing). My rheumatologist thinks otherwise, and I'm betting that he's right and you're wrong.

Janet Rosen
08-17-2010, 08:54 PM
While not about cholesterols I have been wondering much more of late just how much of our general health problems are more likely related to what lives in our guts..

I've been following the gut bacteria research closely; great stuff. The fact that potentially lethal hospital-induced overgrowths of clostridium can be cured BANG fast by administering stuff from the gut of a household member is just so friggin' cool! But hey I remember in nursing school (in the dark ages) being utterly fascinated by the fact that the human cell's energy metabolism is actually conducted by organelles that were originally independent bacteria based on their DNA (mitochondrial DNA).

I love science :)

Marc Abrams
08-17-2010, 09:30 PM
Buck:

As a staff instructor at a USAF dojo, why don't you explain to us how YOUR practice in and teaching of Aikido is so damaging to your body.

As a person with medical doctors as friends as part of your medical network, who reads medical journal articles, why don't you explain to us what has lead you to come to the conclusions. Are you a medical doctor, physician's assistance, doctor-wanna-be,....?

Are you starting threads like this because you are simply trying to gain attention through nonsensical threads and your associated responses?

Marc Abrams

Buck
08-17-2010, 09:38 PM
I am not aware of any published studies even suggesting, much less documenting, a correlation between arthritis and cholesterol/altered lipid levels.

I am not aware of any studies that support your thesis that working out or falling damages arterial walls.

I understand, they study is something I read in hard copy. A friend of my who is a doctor had it lying around at his home and picked up and read it. I didn't pay attention to who wrote it. I will get it though.

Second, the arthritis and cholesterol was simply the best example I came up with for an inflammation example. I am not a doctor. And if I would be taking a completely different tact to this thread. ;) I am sorry if I was misleading.

So, I am still interested in your professional expansion on your post that it is apples and oranges. :) I personally feel you have professional knowledge, that if you share may help someone.

This study could be misleading and your POV could help in showing that. Looking forward to that post. :)

Buck
08-17-2010, 09:52 PM
Indeed, because you have yet to provide a reference to said study. Could it be that this study doesn't exist? Or that it says nothing at all that could support your conjecture about aikido and the sort of inflammation that leads to heart disease? You really don't have to use baby talk, Buck -- I do know a few things about inflammation, and I'm capable of critical and logical thinking, so you're not likely to overwhelm my cognitive faculties. Just skip the condescension and produce the facts.

...still no citation...

Links to two general articles about cholesterol, neither of which contains the word "myth".

...still no citation...

Well now, that's interesting. In your original post, with your vague references to aikido and inflammation, you seemed to be speculating that the soft-tissue inflammation of aikido injuries could somehow contribute to heart disease. Now you're trying to somehow connect inflammation and cholesterol levels. While certain kinds of inflammation and high cholesterol levels are both believed to contribute to heart disease, I've never heard anyone suggest that one contributes to the other. You've got the cause and effect hopelessly confused here.

Sure -- in localized inflammation consistent with injury. It doesn't produce huge rushes of CRP in your bloodstream, which is what's believed to contribute to heart disease -- not to elevated cholesterol levels.

I have asked. You haven't provided. I don't think you can, or will.

Buck strikes again! First you post nonsense. Then someone points out that it's nonsense. Then you suggest that they're an idiot and that gosh, you just can't imagine why they're having such a silly stupid irrational reaction, but you're willing to use small words and help their comprehension, because they clearly don't get it -- otherwise they'd agree with you.

I understand your post just fine. It's a lot of stuff and nonsense. If you feel that your aikido training is going to cause some kind of "inflammation" that will lead to heart disease, however, you should probably discontinue your practice (assuming that you are actually practicing). My rheumatologist thinks otherwise, and I'm betting that he's right and you're wrong.

Now that I understand your POV better, and to better help you, I suggest to talk to your doctor about your health issues. See if how many patients he or his colleagues' patients have high HDL. And if taking Ukemi results in inflammation that effects Cholesterol levels. Cholesterol is used by the body to make new cells, so. It is worth a look. You are at that age where Cholesterol is a concern. If the study is spot on, then we as Aikido can take steps to reduce inflammation, such as icing or taking fish oil for examples after class.

We are (what ever level or intensity we do Aikido) athletes. Knowing how we can perform better, and limit any inhibitors to that, and able to take greater attention and care of our health and share that is a benefit to all of us. Just like athletes do, and we as Aikidoka what ever knowledge we have, if we see ourselves as athletes and look at our health the same way as athletes do, can't do wrong. I am sure as a result of your age and wisdom, the time on the mat,all equates to experience which could help others. I know it would.

Buck
08-17-2010, 10:16 PM
When I get the study's author etc. I will post it as a blog in that section. So look for it there and not here. That way it will be easy to locate. Also, by putting it in a blog those who find it interesting will further investigate the study and add their results there. Again for ease of location and conciseness on the topic for those interested. That way people don't have to weed through thread drift which I believe will happen here. It's a natural occurrence in the life of a thread. :) Though I don't want to abuse this forum with poor behavior and comments or get into thread drift, or high jacking threads, I will continue to discuss my thoughts and opinions properly here. And looking forward to that of others :)

Janet Rosen
08-17-2010, 10:21 PM
I will not be posting, Buck, because I feel there is nothing meaningful to say. I am interested in correcting misinformation about health related issues on aikiweb, have done so here, and will continue to do so. Regardless of the subject, my history on aikiweb over the years should make it abundantly clear I am not interested in arguing semantics or otherwise engaging in mental masturbation.

Buck
08-17-2010, 10:26 PM
I will not be posting, Buck, because I feel there is nothing meaningful to say. I am interested in correcting misinformation about health related issues on aikiweb, have done so here, and will continue to do so. Regardless of the subject, my history on aikiweb over the years should make it abundantly clear I am not interested in arguing semantics or otherwise engaging in mental masturbation.

Ok. I understand. Thank you for the post. It is appreciated.

In the spirit of Aikido, good luck and training to you. :)

Keith Larman
08-17-2010, 11:09 PM
Now that I understand your POV better, and to better help you, I suggest to talk to your doctor about your health issues.

Wow. That has got to be the most willfully ignorant, passive aggressive statements you've made all year.

I'm sorry, but there is no other way to put this. You win the ass-hat of the year award in my book.

Sorry, Jun, no need to PM me. I'll take a break from Aikiweb voluntarily. Or permanently if need be.

Buck
08-17-2010, 11:48 PM
Wow. That has got to be the most willfully ignorant, passive aggressive statements you've made all year.

I'm sorry, but there is no other way to put this. You win the ass-hat of the year award in my book.

Sorry, Jun, no need to PM me. I'll take a break from Aikiweb voluntarily. Or permanently if need be.

Thank you Keith for pointing that out.

So let me make a correction, because I want to more accurate. It may not have been clear by my statement that Mary having arthritis (which I was not aware of until she said so in her post) has access medical professionals. And for her to better understand the study and its validity is to ask the doctor and not me. I am not a doctor. I couldn't answer her. Therefore, I suggested, because she has access to doctors who deal with inflammation disease, to ask the doctors. Then what ever information she got would better answer her questions and concerns about the study.

Carsten Möllering
08-18-2010, 06:36 AM
With that said, Aikido does do damage to the body, as inflammation ...Could you please elaborate?

and may damage arteries (tears result in plaque being like a scab over the tear).Why / how / when do you damage arteries during training/ukemi?

We also don't get the proper exercise out of Aikido to get the blood circulating to the point where ...
Usually aikido gets the blood circulating to a point, where it helps a lot of processes in the body.

So, my question is, does Aikido raise cholesterol levels for the average cholesterol production?
Usually aikido practice helps to lower cholesterol.

Buck
08-18-2010, 08:21 AM
Could you please elaborate?

[1]Why / how / when do you damage arteries during training/ukemi?

[2]Usually aikido gets the blood circulating to a point, where it helps a lot of processes in the body.

[3]Usually aikido practice helps to lower cholesterol.

Answers:

1. I am not sure, am not a doctor or a medical researcher (a doctor), and am not aware of any research I can point to. So in that vein, (pun in tended) is bruising resulting from Ukemi, base on arterial health. A person could experience small tears resulting in plaque build up from from forceful impacts. Bring in the the common knowledge we all have on Coronary Heart Disease; plaque and plaque build up. Again, I am not a doctor nor have such expertise. And I would be interest in reading research (if any) on that question. All I can do is look at the possibility. I am sure there are less seemingly adverse things than a hard jolt to the body from being thrown causing inflammation that increases Cholesterol production that causes tears in relation to arterial health, that is my pondering. Am putting it on the table up for discussion. Again am not a doctor, just have a health curiosity.

2. As I understand it that is true, but like I said, is there enough cardio activity to remove the possible extra Cholesterol resulting from inflammation as talked about in the study? The study discuss a relationship between inflammation and Cholesterol production.

3. Other than getting cardio, I don't see how Cholesterol is lowered as a result of Aikido. I see a possibility where Aikido can cause inflammation which could cause Cholesterol production. But how much Cholesterol is produced as a result of inflammation from Aikido active is a point of interest for me. It may not be enough to increase levels of LDL to have any significant impact on Cholesterol levels. Or it may.

If it does than Aikido can be more attentive to inflammation as a result from class for those with high LDL levels. It can be part of Cholesterol management.


Post thought: Fibromyalgia in the US 10 or so years ago was thought of as a psychosomatic issue, and not as a disease. Doctors told patients the pain was all in their head, it wasn't real and the patients were suffering emotional or other mental issues. But, today it is a disease treated with drug therapy. That may parallel this topic. Now it isn't valid, but tomorrow it maybe.

Buck
08-18-2010, 08:32 AM
I got the article, at it was on line, and I put it in an aikiblog under the same title as this thread.

[Edit -- here is Philip's blog entry for inclusion in this thread.]

It is my belief we, as Aikidoka, are athletes, regardless of our training or the intensity. If NASCAR drivers and poker players are considered athletes, we as Aikido are definitely athletes. Being such, health is important to us, or should be. We take falls and we experience techniques that can be rough on the body. We take a beating. Therefore, taking in interest in staying in good physical condition and health is important to me and my fellow Aikidoka.

One area of interest regarding health and Aikido that has come to my attention of late, is the article below by Dr. Mercola. It is something I read that maybe of interest to fellow Aikidoka, as it was to me. So, I have plucked a few paragraphs from the article highlighting a possible relation to Aikido training and what piqued my attention concerning the article.

I may not train as hard or intense as a world class athlete, but I do look at my health in the same way a world class athlete does. I am open to new theories, and stuff concerning health and medicine. So when I came across this article I felt the need to share it with fellow Aikidoka. So intially I started a thread here (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?p=263162#post263162), where I put down my views on this subject up for discussion.

It is my hope by sharing this information with fellow Aikidoka, it will in someway provide further information on improving better health for longer training.

Here is an excerpt of the article:

Dr. Joseph Mercola Physician and author
Posted: August 12, 2010 07:00 AM

The Cholesterol Myth That Could Be Harming Your Health

Sally Fallon, the president of the Weston A. Price Foundation, and Mary Enig, Ph.D, an expert in lipid biochemistry, have gone so far as to call high cholesterol "an invented disease, a 'problem' that emerged when health professionals learned how to measure cholesterol levels in the blood."[iii]

And this explanation is spot on.

If you have increased levels of cholesterol, it is at least in part because of increased inflammation in your body. The cholesterol is there to do a job: help your body to heal and repair.

Conventional medicine misses the boat entirely when they dangerously recommend that lowering cholesterol with drugs is the way to reduce your risk of heart attacks, because what is actually needed is to address whatever is causing your body damage -- and leading to increased inflammation and then increased cholesterol.

As Dr. Rosedale so rightly points out:

"If excessive damage is occurring such that it is necessary to distribute extra cholesterol through the bloodstream, it would not seem very wise to merely lower the cholesterol and forget about why it is there in the first place.
It would seem much smarter to reduce the extra need for the cholesterol -- the excessive damage that is occurring, the reason for the chronic inflammation."

(Read full article here) (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-mercola/the-cholesterol-myth-that_b_676817.html)

lbb
08-18-2010, 08:36 AM
Now that I understand your POV better, and to better help you, I suggest to talk to your doctor about your health issues.

Gee, Buck, thanks. I've talked to my auto mechanic, my hair stylist, the kid who runs the lemonade stand down the road, and an uncounted number of Internet nitwits about my "health issues", but until you gave me this brilliant and original piece of advice, it never once occurred to me to talk to my doctor, and especially not to talk to my doctor who is a specialist in rheumatoid arthritis and other related conditions, and who has forgotten more than most people will ever know on the subject of "inflammation". I mean, I make appointments with this guy, I drive to the office, I pay my copay, I fill out my forms, but it never once occurred to me to talk to my doctor about my "health issues". We've had all kinds of pleasant conversations on all kinds of topics, but somehow I never got it through my thick skull that those topics should have included "health issues". In the words of Vinnie from Snatch, "Thank you for that information."

And now I have a question for you: do you really have so few useful outlets for your energy that the best thing you can think of to do with your time is giving condescending advice to people who have clearly indicated that they're a good country mile ahead of you?

Rob Watson
08-18-2010, 09:30 AM
I understand, they study is something I read in hard copy. A friend of my who is a doctor had it lying around at his home and picked up and read it. I didn't pay attention to who wrote it. I will get it though.

"The truth about the Weston Price Foundation" in which he argues the Foundation is a purveyor of "nutritional myths". From the wiki page about the authors and their foundation. Might tend to give one pause. Maybe paying attention to who one parrots is actually part of a learning process.

Buck
08-18-2010, 09:55 AM
"The truth about the Weston Price Foundation" in which he argues the Foundation is a purveyor of "nutritional myths". From the wiki page about the authors and their foundation. Might tend to give one pause. Maybe paying attention to who one parrots is actually part of a learning process.

Good point. FWIW, But in these cases, I would want something more substantial that wiki. If wiki is accurate, the Foundation was used in the article as a support and validation. There is than a better choice for that. It would make the study stronger. But there also is a quote from another doctor- have no info on his background or expertise- that makes it stronger. All that really, for me, isn't enough to give pause to the idea that there may be a connection to inflammation and Cholesterol. That is the core of the article for me, since in Aikido we do experience things that trigger inflammation. And it doesn't give me pause to throw out the validity of looking at cholesterol management differently, and it relationship to Aikido.

Coronary heart disease is an issue. It happens to the most unlikely people, people who don't seem to be a candidate, and we think they are doing everything right, and suffer an attack. The more we know the better we are at managing our health. And that is what this is really about. :)

lbb
08-18-2010, 10:04 AM
Coronary heart disease is an issue.

No it isn't. Immigration reform is an issue. Energy policy is an issue. National security is an issue. Coronary heart disease isn't an issue, it's a medical condition.

C. David Henderson
08-18-2010, 10:32 AM
There is an association between cholesterol and inflammation, as I understand it. Cholesterol is involved in cell repair and maintenance, and so cholesterol levels in the blood, for example, are used by most medical professionals as a marker for inflammation, which may be statistically associated, in turn, with the risk of coronary heart disease.

The logical jump (or derailment) occurs for me when one tries to reason:

1. Practice causes inflammation of tissue;
2. Inflammation is associated with cholesterol (and a whole bunch of other things, like creatine).
3. Elevated cholesterol in the blood may be a marker for coronary disease.

Therefore,

100. The body's normal and healthy response to non-coronary inflammation (practice) somehow creates a risk of coronary inflammation or the formation of plaque in otherwise healthy arteries

I worry about practice and chronic injury; but not the health of my heart.

ninjaqutie
08-18-2010, 10:33 AM
Thanks you to Ashley for your comments and the "List Nurse" Janet as well.

I wonder too Ashley, if Aikido at your level of cardio keeps the Cholesterol levels down. I would think that would be the total Cholesterol levels and not just the LDL levels specifically.

I get a health screening annually (actually it is coming up in September). My bad cholesterol is quite low, however my good cholesterol isn't as high as they would like. It isn't bad, but it isn't good either. You can be really active and even eat healthy (for the most part) and not have great "good cholesterol" levels (or at least that is my understanding). So, I have been on flax seed pills and fish oil pills for the last year. I rotate them each time I need to get a good bottle because they both work a little differently. We shall see if my levels improve or not this year..... :rolleyes:

akiy
08-18-2010, 10:35 AM
I don't and can't see this thread going anywhere. As such -- thread closed.

Philip -- in the future, if you wish to start/engage in discussions of a medical nature, especially those with advice, please provide your own medical background and be ready to provide citations and references to peer-reviewed research studies. Also, as others in the thread have pointed out, please understand that medical terminology may be different than that used as "general" terms. Lastly, please do not split threads between here and your blog; such unnecessary bifurcation of discussion only obfuscates the line of your argument.

Thank you,

-- Jun