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David Orange
07-07-2010, 12:00 PM
I had what I think was a real breakthrough in understanding this weekend.

My Sensei once told me that aiki is the ura (reverse or unseen side) of kiai.

I always took that to mean that aiki is a response to another person's kiai attack: you adhere to the ura of his movement.

But this weekend, I realized that I have kiai, myself, and that aiki is the ura of my own kiai.

If you consider the properties and nature of kiai, in yourself, what could be the ura of that?

My understanding of kiai is that it's not the shout but the spirit of attacking. The shout is like a shadow or sound of kiai. Like the sound of a gunshot is not the gunshot, but an effect of the gunshot. The kiai is not the gunshot or the bullet or the sound: it's the intent to shoot, and the action of pulling the trigger. In unarmed fighting, it's the intent to smash the other guy.

For empty-hand, knife or sword, kiai means crossing the gap and blasting through the opponent, knocking him down or impaling him on the sword.

So how could aiki be the ura of that?

I conceived that it would be not crossing the gap or putting your power into the opponent, but holding your ground immovably and letting him run into your sword (or fist) with his kiai attack, so that all his own power (not your power) goes back into him.

Kiai is putting your power into him: aiki is turning all his power back to himself, without moving, by letting the ground receive and support his force. And that would be what Mike Sigman calls peng jin. It's immoveable, and it lifts the opponent and floats him. And this is why Ueshiba does the immovability demonstrations. It's the prime essence of aiki. After that, you add movement and technique, maintaining the peng jin ground support (aiki) and keeping him floated through the movement.

Deeper aiki development means being able to exert that ground support and floating of the opponent at any point of contact.

I worked on this idea a bit over the weekend with a guy who was not very receptive and it satisfied me that I had understood the basic idea and need to develop it much more deeply. It's completely consistent with what I got from both Ark and Dan Harden. I started seeing something that relates perfectly with Dan's concept of moving from the hips and with Ark's shintaijiku. For the first time, I was able to take a push to my chest and convert it into a strike with my forearm/fist like Ark does, but I did it through something Dan showed me and I could clearly see his central pivot and the cross-arms concept. So I feel that I'm getting a solid understanding of where all three (Ark, Dan and Mike) are coming from.

Now if I can just develop that understanding into some ability....

Comments appreciated.

David

Don_Modesto
07-07-2010, 01:51 PM
Who's your teacher?

David Orange
07-07-2010, 02:24 PM
Who's your teacher?

Minoru Mochizuki.

DH
07-07-2010, 02:38 PM
Minoru Mochizuki.
One of the original MMA bad asses of Japan; Daito ryu, karate, judo, koryu jujutsu and Koryu weapons! Which he blended into a style all his own.
And was respected by a wide spectrum of artists from all styles.
Cheers
Dan

David Orange
07-07-2010, 02:48 PM
(Minoru Mochizuki)...One of the original MMA bad asses of Japan; Daito ryu, karate, judo, koryu jujutsu and Koryu weapons! Which he blended into a style all his own.
And was respected by a wide spectrum of artists from all styles.

Yes, he was, Dan. And a fine person with a great heart.

And he did tell me once that aiki is "the ura of kiai" but I thought it meant the ura of the attacker's kiai (to produce a technique adhering to the "reverse" of the attack).

However, my experience with you and others left me stumped until I thought of it as the reverse of my own kiai. That was another ura in itself.

But please: what do you think of that conception, as one of the few who can demonstrate powerful aiki and affect the opponent unquestionably?

Thanks.

David

Flintstone
07-07-2010, 05:32 PM
Completely agree with you, David. Without that view, what we do is just (beautiful, good) jujutsu. IMHO.

DH
07-08-2010, 08:09 AM
Yes, he was, Dan. And a fine person with a great heart.

And he did tell me once that aiki is "the ura of kiai" but I thought it meant the ura of the attacker's kiai (to produce a technique adhering to the "reverse" of the attack).

However, my experience with you and others left me stumped until I thought of it as the reverse of my own kiai. That was another ura in itself.

But please: what do you think of that conception, as one of the few who can demonstrate powerful aiki and affect the opponent unquestionably?

Thanks.

David
Hello David
I can think of many concepts that would fit this type of comment in Budo. Therefore I would hesitate to address your teachers meaning. However, I can think of several working definitions for the ura of kiai; chief among them would be in yo ho; to be at one in harmony in all movement inside you. Or aiki in yo ho as breath training (which he would have been familair with) would also fit. Nice power exercise. But power will not due and breath-power is just a piece of the puzzle?
In/yo or yin/yang is a concept many artists have heard of. They like to think of this concept in what they do. I struggle to find it in their movement. trying to find it in anyone in the Japanese arts to any serious degree may prove to be a chore. Instead people like to divide their mental state; they do this as a yin movement of feel, that see that power display and they think of it as a yang movement. This is not in yo ho. To be at one, we have to possess both at once. Is that what you’re teacher was getting at or pointing to, I dunno. If he knew, why he didn’t explain and show how, where, why and in what manner you would need to train to create contrasting energy and then contrasting dynamic movement to support all action is disappointing I’m sure.

In any event to be ideal, all energy is matched and supported in contradiction, it is in/yo ho. Aiki is in/ yo ho and it can be taught. It is easy to show in sparring where and how incoming force gets neutralized, redirected and they get owned without much thought. When the energy inside is matched by the expression of energy in physical motion outside- there is a marked tendency for them to always have to react and re-adjust to you, while you are just moving. This creates a time lag or reaction displacement in them, where they feel as if they are always behind you or after you, giving you a natural edge in motion to exert your will by fitting in to the gaps that keep revealing themselves. You can couple that with other physical effects (external movement manifestations) where many time one distinct movement from them offers you two or three openings. I call them two for ones (someone with aiki power can usually hit two or three times in an opening-where the normal person can't. The reason is the power is inherent and latent and I don't need to wind up. The power just changes from one spiral to the other and is a constant current in the body. This gets very complicated when you start to see just how capable opposing spirals are all along a path. Someone trying to throw you encounters spiraling descending energy in a leg that looks like it isn't moving, and their force get multiplied into a kick or punch the likes of which they cannot fathom where it cam from, all while you are perfectly free to keep moving right through them and force them to react to your natural movement . Once the body becomes aiki (a balance of matched energy in stillness and in motion) it expresses aiki on contact. So with "my" idea of the ura of kiai (in yo ho) the body tends to take care of itself while their strength and intent is dissolved and or manipulated on contact and once again…they're late in reacting…too late.

Just a quick note on your comment about being immovable. Everything we’ve discussed is hyper-mobile and immovable at the same time. The key to all, is change of energy; theirs and yours, not that "holding ground" absorbing stuff. That's how you get caught; joint locks, throws, what have you. Good martial arts guys (like softer aiki-jujutsu guys) will lock you with multiple directed vector movements and cumulative bone locking, and throw you with a certain type of “contact understanding” (that I won't go into here). There are methods of fighting that. "Store and release" methods, and “breath-power” methods, among other things, are just not going to begin to address that and will be read, undone, or gone through. Power is not the answer. It takes a deeper understanding of how and where to train the body to cancel that stuff out, make change, and put it back in them.

The method can get complex and detailed and they are NOT all the same. You remember some of the external examples I showed of spiral energy and how it looks and acts exactly like so many familiar waza? Its one of the reasons people can mimic but have no real understanding. Once there is a real balances power, technique is meaningless. You've seen a direct jab that does nothing and is gone right through and the guy is hit twice for his trouble? Think of that now with something as obvious as a shomen/yokomen and how much easier that is to deal with? Think of sword, think of naginata, think of twin sticks. You literally move through them and hit them, or displace them and motivate capture and control them, or throw them. The reason is that spiral energy inside matches spiral energy expressed outside and this creates aiki on contact; an unending method of disruption based on certain key requirements; some of which you to build in your body and others of which have to be burned in to be tactile. The way you are training the energy to move inside you, should match the way the energy is expressed outside you, in movement. Without that you have…well…a whole bunch of martial artists moving like athletes, and some physics and engineering junkies creating models and graphics to express their “understanding”- who are unable to do anything meaningful with their "understanding."
So the ura or kiai is up for grabs. I remain convinced from ever increasing exposure that my kiai is not like most peoples kiai, so the ura of that will be different than the norm, how that plays into what Mr. Mochizuki meant is not defined. He was after all a Japanese teacher- so why bother “defining” anything. ;)
I hope that helped.
Cheers
Dan

David Orange
07-08-2010, 09:40 AM
Dan,

Thanks for the detailed response.

When I mentioned being immoveable, of course, I meant immoveable to the opponent "when" you want to be immoveable. When I discuss these ideas with the relatively uninitiated, they have the same problems I used to have when trying to understand you and others on this topic. Of course, I mean, being immoveable when you want to stay where you are and being irresistable when you feel like moving.

And the idea of staying in place and letting the attacker impale himself with his own power is just what I perceived as a sort of zero point of the ura of kiai. Instead of going to him and impaling him with your energy, you let him come to you and impale himself with his own energy.

That's the kernel I've been looking at recently.

Then, from there, you're free to move at will, letting ground support him even as you're taking the ground out from under him.

And though I did relate some of Ark's movement to some of yours, I do understand that your method and Ark's are not overlays at all. Nor Ark's and Mike's. I do feel like Mike's peng jin, as I've come to understand it through reading and some experimentation with people who have trained with him, is the essence of the "kernel" I mention above, stopping and supporting the attacker's energy and causing him to lighten and "float", but again, this is just describing that initial balancing. How to maintain it while moving, how to effect it from any point of contact, how to do it without resorting to muscle, etc., are all levels I've yet to scratch.

And I glimpse that as I explore this direction more, it will also change my kiai, which would change my aiki, which would change my kiai....etc.

It's definitely the most interesting world of potential I've found in martial arts since I first encountered aiki based on movement.

Thanks again and best to you and yours.

David

Hello David
I can think of many concepts that would fit this type of comment in Budo. Therefore I would hesitate to address your teachers meaning. However, I can think of several working definitions for the ura of kiai; chief among them would be in yo ho; to be at one in harmony in all movement inside you. Or aiki in yo ho as breath training (which he would have been familair with) would also fit. Nice power exercise. But power will not due and breath-power is just a piece of the puzzle?
In/yo or yin/yang is a concept many artists have heard of. They like to think of this concept in what they do. I struggle to find it in their movement. trying to find it in anyone in the Japanese arts to any serious degree may prove to be a chore. Instead people like to divide their mental state; they do this as a yin movement of feel, that see that power display and they think of it as a yang movement. This is not in yo ho. To be at one, we have to possess both at once. Is that what you’re teacher was getting at or pointing to, I dunno. If he knew, why he didn’t explain and show how, where, why and in what manner you would need to train to create contrasting energy and then contrasting dynamic movement to support all action is disappointing I’m sure.

In any event to be ideal, all energy is matched and supported in contradiction, it is in/yo ho. Aiki is in/ yo ho and it can be taught. It is easy to show in sparring where and how incoming force gets neutralized, redirected and they get owned without much thought. When the energy inside is matched by the expression of energy in physical motion outside- there is a marked tendency for them to always have to react and re-adjust to you, while you are just moving. This creates a time lag or reaction displacement in them, where they feel as if they are always behind you or after you, giving you a natural edge in motion to exert your will by fitting in to the gaps that keep revealing themselves. You can couple that with other physical effects (external movement manifestations) where many time one distinct movement from them offers you two or three openings. I call them two for ones (someone with aiki power can usually hit two or three times in an opening-where the normal person can't. The reason is the power is inherent and latent and I don't need to wind up. The power just changes from one spiral to the other and is a constant current in the body. This gets very complicated when you start to see just how capable opposing spirals are all along a path. Someone trying to throw you encounters spiraling descending energy in a leg that looks like it isn't moving, and their force get multiplied into a kick or punch the likes of which they cannot fathom where it cam from, all while you are perfectly free to keep moving right through them and force them to react to your natural movement . Once the body becomes aiki (a balance of matched energy in stillness and in motion) it expresses aiki on contact. So with "my" idea of the ura of kiai (in yo ho) the body tends to take care of itself while their strength and intent is dissolved and or manipulated on contact and once again…they're late in reacting…too late.

Just a quick note on your comment about being immovable. Everything we’ve discussed is hyper-mobile and immovable at the same time. The key to all, is change of energy; theirs and yours, not that "holding ground" absorbing stuff. That's how you get caught; joint locks, throws, what have you. Good martial arts guys (like softer aiki-jujutsu guys) will lock you with multiple directed vector movements and cumulative bone locking, and throw you with a certain type of “contact understanding” (that I won't go into here). There are methods of fighting that. "Store and release" methods, and “breath-power” methods, among other things, are just not going to begin to address that and will be read, undone, or gone through. Power is not the answer. It takes a deeper understanding of how and where to train the body to cancel that stuff out, make change, and put it back in them.

The method can get complex and detailed and they are NOT all the same. You remember some of the external examples I showed of spiral energy and how it looks and acts exactly like so many familiar waza? Its one of the reasons people can mimic but have no real understanding. Once there is a real balances power, technique is meaningless. You've seen a direct jab that does nothing and is gone right through and the guy is hit twice for his trouble? Think of that now with something as obvious as a shomen/yokomen and how much easier that is to deal with? Think of sword, think of naginata, think of twin sticks. You literally move through them and hit them, or displace them and motivate capture and control them, or throw them. The reason is that spiral energy inside matches spiral energy expressed outside and this creates aiki on contact; an unending method of disruption based on certain key requirements; some of which you to build in your body and others of which have to be burned in to be tactile. The way you are training the energy to move inside you, should match the way the energy is expressed outside you, in movement. Without that you have…well…a whole bunch of martial artists moving like athletes, and some physics and engineering junkies creating models and graphics to express their “understanding”- who are unable to do anything meaningful with their "understanding."
So the ura or kiai is up for grabs. I remain convinced from ever increasing exposure that my kiai is not like most peoples kiai, so the ura of that will be different than the norm, how that plays into what Mr. Mochizuki meant is not defined. He was after all a Japanese teacher- so why bother “defining” anything. ;)
I hope that helped.
Cheers
Dan

David Orange
07-08-2010, 09:44 AM
Completely agree with you, David. Without that view, what we do is just (beautiful, good) jujutsu. IMHO.

Thanks, Alejandro. Best to you.

David

DH
07-08-2010, 10:11 AM
Dan,

Thanks for the detailed response.

When I mentioned being immoveable, of course, I meant immoveable to the opponent "when" you want to be immoveable. When I discuss these ideas with the relatively uninitiated, they have the same problems I used to have when trying to understand you and others on this topic. Of course, I mean, being immoveable when you want to stay where you are and being irresistable when you feel like moving.

And the idea of staying in place and letting the attacker impale himself with his own power is just what I perceived as a sort of zero point of the ura of kiai. Instead of going to him and impaling him with your energy, you let him come to you and impale himself with his own energy.

That's the kernel I've been looking at recently.

Then, from there, you're free to move at will, letting ground support him even as you're taking the ground out from under him.

And though I did relate some of Ark's movement to some of yours, I do understand that your method and Ark's are not overlays at all. Nor Ark's and Mike's. I do feel like Mike's peng jin, as I've come to understand it through reading and some experimentation with people who have trained with him, is the essence of the "kernel" I mention above, stopping and supporting the attacker's energy and causing him to lighten and "float", but again, this is just describing that initial balancing. How to maintain it while moving, how to effect it from any point of contact, how to do it without resorting to muscle, etc., are all levels I've yet to scratch.

And I glimpse that as I explore this direction more, it will also change my kiai, which would change my aiki, which would change my kiai....etc.

It's definitely the most interesting world of potential I've found in martial arts since I first encountered aiki based on movement.

Thanks again and best to you and yours.

David
Hi David
Got it on the immovable side..okay.

Floating people on contact is aiki age. Forget the wrist grabs and such. It is a body energy consistent from your head to your toes. I like to show it in ways that people do not conceive of to make the point about the totality of it. A good example is to have them grab me behind the knee to lift my leg up and having them feel kokyu ho (aiki age) energy from the back of my knee. The point is that anywhere-even your nose should create a feeling of kuzushi without much thought, it is natural when they come in contact with you.
Up energy is just a single use. Your body properly supported (once again that energy thing) creates kuzushi in them. The real fun starts (in practice) when you float them at any point "suspend the contact point" and move freely all around it. Think of it like a floating kuzushi point that leaves you free to move anywhere you will; enter, throw, hit or kick. the fun part is to be able to suspend freely, but remain super soft with total body flexibility (bending of all the joints etc.) You can practice it over time by getting kuzushi then moving, without adding or taking away anything from that point. Then switching hands, ducking under, walking around them, while the various contact areas on your arm change but the kuzushi remains constant in them.
It can be shown and done by lot of people to various degrees, but the quality in it is not the same as someone with the proper conditioning. Other fun things are bringing or carrying their intent to a place other than where they intended it to go. Again though these are external manifestations that can be "mimiced" of what should be going on- "on the inside."

Impaling themselves and movement with weapons is a long complicate topic. Example: straight on movement and winding movements can offer the same "result" you outlined in your example yet they are two completely different approaches.
hopefully I will see you this fall
Cheers
Dan

James - Huang
07-08-2010, 03:36 PM
All energy must be supported with dual opposing spirals that go down one leg and up the opposite arm using highly complex mental intent that involves more and more tissue as you train. The dual opposing spirals of yin yang power will allow you to move nearly instanteously and hit opponents several times before they even realize that you have moved, without you having to think at all.

Just touching any part of your body due to your soft, mobile, powerful, grounded, yin yang balanced, dual-spiral supporting center that has been enriched in aiki power by several decades of hard training will powerfully and effortlessly cause a powerful kuzushi on anyone that touches you. This will allow for for you to strike, kick, throw, choke, or hit with knife, stick, fist, two sticks, spear, or sword in the same consistent fashion while the opponent is unable to do anything. Also, your body, through decades of hard conditioning using mental intent instead of weights and cardio, will develop aiki power everywhere so that strikes from normal people will simply bounce off.

Training with traditional teachers is largely a waste of time since from experience, during my decades of hard training (so my soft mobile center with dual opposing spirals infused with the mental intent of aiki power so that I can strike, kick, throw, choke, or hit with knife, stick, fist, two sticks, spear, or sword two or three times in the the span of a normal person), I have not met anyone that can manifest the abilities outlined above, such as the power to instantly dissolve and manipulate forces in my body effortlessly while the natural and effortless movement of my body forces them to react again and again in a very late fashion to my powerful, intent-driven punches, throws, kicks, knife strikes, dual stick attacks, and sword blows, and the kuzushi caused by such will drop them at my feet time and time again.

To train you must fight constantly and not lift weights. I know of many wiry, small, internal-movement driven folks who can dominate doughy, larger, external western movement driven folks using their soft mobile centers with dual opposing spirals infused with the mental intent of aiki power so that they can strike, kick, throw, choke, or hit with knife, stick, fist, two sticks, spear, or sword while their opponent is unable to respond. However, for the vast majority of people out there, doing judo or wrestling would be a superior choice because this type of training is not for everyone. It takes tremendous mental endurance, patience, blood, sweat, tears, the right teacher, and an endless thirst for improvement (which I have), and sometimes I stay up 10 hours straight training in my dojo with other men of power like myself. After decades of such training it may be possible to strike, throw, kick, deliver sword strikes, use dual sticks, and effect kuzushi using only mental intent and your aiki-power infused soft, mobile, dual-spiral infused center.

However, you should still train and do judo if you would like to learn how to fight. The internal method is not for most people. It is the ura of the kiai of hard training and the ura is the hidden solo training. Kiai is when you strike, kick, throw, choke, or hit with knife, stick, fist, two sticks, spear, or sword while your opponent is unable to respond. Aiki is the reverse of that, where you put in decades of hard training in your dojo with other men and women of power, and is ura to the omote of your striking and kicking which people can see on the outside.

Good luck in your training,

James

Patrick Hutchinson
07-08-2010, 03:52 PM
If you're using more and more tissues as you train, I'd recommend the blue rolls of shop rags from Home Depot.
They can deal with blood, sweat, tears, and bullshit.

David Orange
07-08-2010, 04:58 PM
Dan,

thanks again.

hopefully I will see you this fall


I hope so.

David

David Orange
07-08-2010, 05:02 PM
If you're using more and more tissues as you train, I'd recommend the blue rolls of shop rags from Home Depot.
They can deal with blood, sweat, tears, and bullshit.

No kidding.:D

David

DH
07-08-2010, 05:05 PM
If you're using more and more tissues as you train, I'd recommend the blue rolls of shop rags from Home Depot.
They can deal with blood, sweat, tears, and bullshit.l
His post was pretty funny though. Three guesses...
I have to get me some of those blue rags I guess.
Dan

gregstec
07-08-2010, 06:52 PM
All energy must be supported with dual opposing spirals that go down one leg and up the opposite arm using highly complex mental intent that involves more and more tissue as you train. The dual opposing spirals of yin yang power will allow you to move nearly instanteously and hit opponents several times before they even realize that you have moved, without you having to think at all.

Just touching any part of your body due to your soft, mobile, powerful, grounded, yin yang balanced, dual-spiral supporting center that has been enriched in aiki power by several decades of hard training will powerfully and effortlessly cause a powerful kuzushi on anyone that touches you. This will allow for for you to strike, kick, throw, choke, or hit with knife, stick, fist, two sticks, spear, or sword in the same consistent fashion while the opponent is unable to do anything. Also, your body, through decades of hard conditioning using mental intent instead of weights and cardio, will develop aiki power everywhere so that strikes from normal people will simply bounce off.

Training with traditional teachers is largely a waste of time since from experience, during my decades of hard training (so my soft mobile center with dual opposing spirals infused with the mental intent of aiki power so that I can strike, kick, throw, choke, or hit with knife, stick, fist, two sticks, spear, or sword two or three times in the the span of a normal person), I have not met anyone that can manifest the abilities outlined above, such as the power to instantly dissolve and manipulate forces in my body effortlessly while the natural and effortless movement of my body forces them to react again and again in a very late fashion to my powerful, intent-driven punches, throws, kicks, knife strikes, dual stick attacks, and sword blows, and the kuzushi caused by such will drop them at my feet time and time again.

To train you must fight constantly and not lift weights. I know of many wiry, small, internal-movement driven folks who can dominate doughy, larger, external western movement driven folks using their soft mobile centers with dual opposing spirals infused with the mental intent of aiki power so that they can strike, kick, throw, choke, or hit with knife, stick, fist, two sticks, spear, or sword while their opponent is unable to respond. However, for the vast majority of people out there, doing judo or wrestling would be a superior choice because this type of training is not for everyone. It takes tremendous mental endurance, patience, blood, sweat, tears, the right teacher, and an endless thirst for improvement (which I have), and sometimes I stay up 10 hours straight training in my dojo with other men of power like myself. After decades of such training it may be possible to strike, throw, kick, deliver sword strikes, use dual sticks, and effect kuzushi using only mental intent and your aiki-power infused soft, mobile, dual-spiral infused center.

However, you should still train and do judo if you would like to learn how to fight. The internal method is not for most people. It is the ura of the kiai of hard training and the ura is the hidden solo training. Kiai is when you strike, kick, throw, choke, or hit with knife, stick, fist, two sticks, spear, or sword while your opponent is unable to respond. Aiki is the reverse of that, where you put in decades of hard training in your dojo with other men and women of power, and is ura to the omote of your striking and kicking which people can see on the outside.

Good luck in your training,

James

Welcome James - very good summary of internal skill points as presented over the last few years by our very own earthly gurus in that discipline - so, what planet do you hail from? obviously you are not terrestrial since your grasp is so succinct :D

DH
07-09-2010, 07:50 AM
Welcome James - very good summary of internal skill points as presented over the last few years by our very own earthly gurus in that discipline - so, what planet do you hail from? obviously you are not terrestrial since your grasp is so succinct :D
With the miracle of IP addresses it would be easy to find out if he hails from California, New York or even Colorado.
As far as being an alien..............well ;)
Dan

gregstec
07-09-2010, 08:06 AM
With the miracle of IP addresses it would be easy to find out if he hails from California, New York or even Colorado.
As far as being an alien..............well ;)
Dan

Good point about the IP address, it can tell you a lot. Speaking of IP, since James has access to the internet, maybe he can upload or point to some of his videos on IT - he must have some if he has been doing IT for as long as his post alludes to :)

Greg

Flintstone
07-09-2010, 08:37 AM
Same James Huang of Shinkendo's fame?

Mike Sigman
07-09-2010, 08:44 AM
it would be easy to find out if he hails from California, New York or even Colorado.
Sorry, not me this time, even though I enjoy a good leg-pull as much (or even more) as the next guy. If it's who I think it is, he's also very good with computers so I doubt you'd catch him with the obvious.

Mike

Thomas Campbell
07-09-2010, 12:15 PM
Just touching any part of your body due to your soft, mobile, powerful, grounded, yin yang balanced, dual-spiral supporting center that has been enriched in aiki power by several decades of hard training will powerfully and effortlessly cause a powerful kuzushi on anyone that touches you.

That's gotta make it hard to give anyone a hug.

Janet Rosen
07-09-2010, 12:53 PM
I had a sudden thought of who it may be, am laughing my head off, and keeping my thoughts to myself....your soft, mobile, powerful, grounded, yin yang balanced, dual-spiral supporting center will never make me talk.

Lorel Latorilla
07-09-2010, 01:15 PM
All energy must be supported with dual opposing spirals that go down one leg and up the opposite arm using highly complex mental intent that involves more and more tissue as you train. The dual opposing spirals of yin yang power will allow you to move nearly instanteously and hit opponents several times before they even realize that you have moved, without you having to think at all.

Just touching any part of your body due to your soft, mobile, powerful, grounded, yin yang balanced, dual-spiral supporting center that has been enriched in aiki power by several decades of hard training will powerfully and effortlessly cause a powerful kuzushi on anyone that touches you. This will allow for for you to strike, kick, throw, choke, or hit with knife, stick, fist, two sticks, spear, or sword in the same consistent fashion while the opponent is unable to do anything. Also, your body, through decades of hard conditioning using mental intent instead of weights and cardio, will develop aiki power everywhere so that strikes from normal people will simply bounce off.

Training with traditional teachers is largely a waste of time since from experience, during my decades of hard training (so my soft mobile center with dual opposing spirals infused with the mental intent of aiki power so that I can strike, kick, throw, choke, or hit with knife, stick, fist, two sticks, spear, or sword two or three times in the the span of a normal person), I have not met anyone that can manifest the abilities outlined above, such as the power to instantly dissolve and manipulate forces in my body effortlessly while the natural and effortless movement of my body forces them to react again and again in a very late fashion to my powerful, intent-driven punches, throws, kicks, knife strikes, dual stick attacks, and sword blows, and the kuzushi caused by such will drop them at my feet time and time again.

To train you must fight constantly and not lift weights. I know of many wiry, small, internal-movement driven folks who can dominate doughy, larger, external western movement driven folks using their soft mobile centers with dual opposing spirals infused with the mental intent of aiki power so that they can strike, kick, throw, choke, or hit with knife, stick, fist, two sticks, spear, or sword while their opponent is unable to respond. However, for the vast majority of people out there, doing judo or wrestling would be a superior choice because this type of training is not for everyone. It takes tremendous mental endurance, patience, blood, sweat, tears, the right teacher, and an endless thirst for improvement (which I have), and sometimes I stay up 10 hours straight training in my dojo with other men of power like myself. After decades of such training it may be possible to strike, throw, kick, deliver sword strikes, use dual sticks, and effect kuzushi using only mental intent and your aiki-power infused soft, mobile, dual-spiral infused center.

However, you should still train and do judo if you would like to learn how to fight. The internal method is not for most people. It is the ura of the kiai of hard training and the ura is the hidden solo training. Kiai is when you strike, kick, throw, choke, or hit with knife, stick, fist, two sticks, spear, or sword while your opponent is unable to respond. Aiki is the reverse of that, where you put in decades of hard training in your dojo with other men and women of power, and is ura to the omote of your striking and kicking which people can see on the outside.

Good luck in your training,

James

Lol wow.

Dan, you musta done something bad to this guy's ego, or thrashed his teacher, or he just really hates your writing style. Poor trolly sod.

James - Huang
07-10-2010, 09:08 PM
Good point about the IP address, it can tell you a lot. Speaking of IP, since James has access to the internet, maybe he can upload or point to some of his videos on IT - he must have some if he has been doing IT for as long as his post alludes to :)

Greg

Hello Greg,

I don't do videos because I took a blood oath to a samurai lineage that requires I don't share details of my methods to outsiders, even if they are relatives. If I break the pledge, the kami Marishiten and Katori will curse me.

Aside from that, I've never known anyone to have gained anything from watching a video or listening to an explanation, so although I wish you luck in your training, video is unavailable.

The best thing to do if you want to learn is to move to San Luis Obispo and find Ken (Hayawo) Kiyama. He will probably try to pass off some judo techniques on you at first but with persistence (and some experience in judo) perhaps you will be invited to join the ***censored*** and there you will discover the true aiki power which will give you a soft mobile central pivot center supported by dual opposing ying yang balanced spirals which will let you kick, punch, deliver sword blows, dual stick attacks, triple stick attacks, and knife stabs nearly instantaneously and absorb massive blows and minor sword attacks without damage.

- James

James - Huang
07-10-2010, 09:21 PM
Lol wow.

Dan, you musta done something bad to this guy's ego, or thrashed his teacher, or he just really hates your writing style. Poor trolly sod.

Hello fellow pinoy,

My post may have confused you as I am in absolute agreement with Dan. He has described many phenomena which confirm that he is also a follower of the soft, healthy, and internal methods, just like me.

I believe you, however, are a follower of the path of a more Shaolin-based, muscular, tension-based, commericialized, one-side weighted method... which incidentally is not good for your back health and cannot be used to wield long weapons like the naginata, which is a disadvantage since you never know when you'll need to wield a naginata. However, since the man that espouses this method was able to defeat Tatsuo Kimura (a great exponent of the aiki path who sometimes did 10,000 shiko a day) in spite of only practicing his method only 30 minutes a day while making a living selling alarms, I have respect for this man, and thus, you, as well.

- James

Janet Rosen
07-11-2010, 12:36 AM
ROTFLMAO (in a most soft, centered way, I assure you).

Lorel Latorilla
07-11-2010, 01:00 AM
Hello fellow pinoy,

My post may have confused you as I am in absolute agreement with Dan. He has described many phenomena which confirm that he is also a follower of the soft, healthy, and internal methods, just like me.

I believe you, however, are a follower of the path of a more Shaolin-based, muscular, tension-based, commericialized, one-side weighted method... which incidentally is not good for your back health and cannot be used to wield long weapons like the naginata, which is a disadvantage since you never know when you'll need to wield a naginata. However, since the man that espouses this method was able to defeat Tatsuo Kimura (a great exponent of the aiki path who sometimes did 10,000 shiko a day) in spite of only practicing his method only 30 minutes a day while making a living selling alarms, I have respect for this man, and thus, you, as well.

- James

Lol this is great. For a troll, this is entertaining, nothing like Buck, anyhow.

DH
07-11-2010, 12:02 PM
Who ever it is they are obviously breaking the rules and posting under a false registration...oh well

They are hilarious. It is a well versed humor with surgical precision. Obviously, he is attempting to make a point. One only hopes it is cathartic for him/her.;)
Dan

gregstec
07-11-2010, 08:28 PM
Who ever it is they are obviously breaking the rules and posting under a false registration...oh well

They are hilarious. It is a well versed humor with surgical precision. Obviously, he is attempting to make a point. One only hopes it is cathartic for him/her.;)
Dan

I like the guy - at least we can use him as an archive for all the aiki points made over the years - wait, maybe James is not human at all - maybe we can just call him HAL.....

Toby Threadgill
07-11-2010, 09:42 PM
Hi,

I just got bombarded with e-mails assuming James Huang must be my alter - ego.

Sorry, there's only room in my head for one, but I do appreciate Mr Huang's sense of humor.

Toby Threadgill

Mike Sigman
07-11-2010, 11:02 PM
Sorry, there's only room in my head for one, ...Reminds me of the old poem:

Roses are red,
Violets are blue,
I'm schizophrenic
and so am I.

;)

Mike

David Orange
07-11-2010, 11:45 PM
Hi,

I just got bombarded with e-mails assuming James Huang must be my alter - ego.

Sorry, there's only room in my head for one, but I do appreciate Mr Huang's sense of humor.

Toby Threadgill

I didn't think it was you. Mike, maybe. Didn't think it was you.

David

DH
07-11-2010, 11:46 PM
Hi,
I just got bombarded with e-mails assuming James Huang must be my alter - ego.
Toby Threadgill
That's interesting to know
Dan

David Orange
07-11-2010, 11:46 PM
Reminds me of the old poem:

Roses are red,
Violets are blue,
I'm schizophrenic
and so am I.


I didn't really think it was you, either.

But I did.

David

gregstec
07-12-2010, 06:44 AM
I think James is the avatar of Sokaku Takeda sent to earth to enlighten us with the true meaning of Aiki :)

David Orange
07-19-2010, 08:39 AM
...For empty-hand, knife or sword, kiai means crossing the gap and blasting through the opponent, knocking him down or impaling him on the sword.

So how could aiki be the ura of that?

I conceived that it would be not crossing the gap or putting your power into the opponent, but holding your ground immovably and letting him run into your sword (or fist) with his kiai attack, so that all his own power (not your power) goes back into him.

This bit from Alan Featherstone's thread on "The Realms of Possibilities" sounds exactly like what I mean:



Dong Haichuan (Baguazhang)

Dong stretched out his right arm and said, "Attack me!" Yin punched like lighting, but the moment that his arm made contact with Dong's, his punch was deflected and Dong's right hand followed with a thrust to Yin's mouth which knocked out his front teeth. The tobacco pouch was still gently nestled in Dong's left hand where it had been at the onset of the action.



That perfectly expresses what I intuited. Not that I can do it, but that I've recognized it.

Of course, this view of the ura of kiai would not comprise all elements of either aiki or kiai, but this is what I thought of.

Also, Mochizuki Sensei specified something like, "If you're walking along and an attacker suddenly emerges in front of you, if you shrink back from him, that's not aiki. If it's aiki, you surge right into the attack. Aiki attacks the attack."

So there's lots of ways to defenestrate a flying squirrel....

FWIW.

David

thisisnotreal
07-19-2010, 10:17 AM
Hi David,
That phrase, "The Ura of Kia", which you've mentioned before…
Well..I don't know what this is; but a vague unformed idea at this point; .. maybe something someone can connect to.
ok:
… you know; when you do a Kiai? -- the energy ‘in you' moves or is sent. Whether it is breath-pressure (i.e. a shout; or silent kia) or whatever.
I was thinking here of the effect, or backside, of that energy, again, ‘in you', . Again; the ‘backside' or ‘effect' of creating the kiai effort: in you. (i.e. like the moment of distinguishing/separation of the yin from the yang)
Here; was thinking that the character of the ‘ura' side is that it sinks and that it is the foundation for the ‘sent energy'. The backside that connects the circuit into a whole.
And a vague thought of (which I think may connect to your idea); no longer using *your own kiai* but rather allowing the opponent to offer their kiai; and then you providing the ‘support', or ura side of it.
So in your example; stabilizing yourself internally using the ‘ura of your kiai'.
How: by separating yin from yang in yourself; connecting to uke; and balancing the equation the way you see fit.

Ok. Now I'm just going in circles. I'm not even sure I just said anything meaningful.
Just some mouth sounds..
josh

Lee Salzman
07-19-2010, 11:48 AM
Hi David,
That phrase, "The Ura of Kia", which you've mentioned before…
Well..I don't know what this is; but a vague unformed idea at this point; .. maybe something someone can connect to.
ok:
… you know; when you do a Kiai? -- the energy ‘in you' moves or is sent. Whether it is breath-pressure (i.e. a shout; or silent kia) or whatever.
I was thinking here of the effect, or backside, of that energy, again, ‘in you', . Again; the ‘backside' or ‘effect' of creating the kiai effort: in you. (i.e. like the moment of distinguishing/separation of the yin from the yang)
Here; was thinking that the character of the ‘ura' side is that it sinks and that it is the foundation for the ‘sent energy'. The backside that connects the circuit into a whole.
And a vague thought of (which I think may connect to your idea); no longer using *your own kiai* but rather allowing the opponent to offer their kiai; and then you providing the ‘support', or ura side of it.
So in your example; stabilizing yourself internally using the ‘ura of your kiai'.
How: by separating yin from yang in yourself; connecting to uke; and balancing the equation the way you see fit.

Ok. Now I'm just going in circles. I'm not even sure I just said anything meaningful.
Just some mouth sounds..
josh

In some ways to me it seems like a duality, but in other ways it seems like the two are overlapping. It sometimes feels like if there's such a thing as kiai (not the ura), then that's what I feel like I've been learning from my teacher. I'm no Japanese speaker, so I make no definitive claims about what is or is not kiai. :) I'll use Ark for a point of comparison because it seems relevant...

I remember when I went to a seminar with Ark, and he was showing standing - maho - and he must have come around to me about 3 times correcting me just to get my elbows straighter. I have some sort of joint defect that prevents my elbows from fully straightening, so I remember that point in the seminar vividly. Even shiko or tenchijin, the emphasis seemed being fully extended on the axes.

Whereas when I work with my teacher, it's like the total opposite: the body always seeks full extension, but never gets there, it's an asymptote likened to generative death. Or as he put it, "When fully extended, the body can not exert power", and he was talking about the point of impact even, not the movement that got you there. When I was later talking with him about the shoulder and elbow joint, he had mentioned that it makes more sense to keep these joints more in the strongest extremes (fully extended or bent at the sides) when applying sustained force. The idea of being extended vs. extending.

It seems like these drills start large in space, and then move in, to where the game is all in your head, whereas what I was learning, I started small, non-movement, and then am gradually struggling to be larger and extend movement in space, and to quoth the teacher, "Don't get stuck in your head. Keep the focus on the real thing outside you."

Even the paired drills seemed fairly opposite. With Ark on the push-out drills and other likewise stuff I was lucky enough to see, you were taking in force smoothly and trying to put it into the partner smoothly, the whole affair being extended in time. Whereas when I was practicing partnered drills with my teacher, it was more: you explode into the weakness in their structure, during contact okay, on contact better, before contact best, and if there is no weakness, you find the ideal place to make one and put one there by your impact.

Whereas the overlap seems like in the idea of being extended vs. extending and the control of the body you need to develop to do them. At least for that moment of contact (but leaving Chuck Norris out of this), you are either the immovable object and they bounce off you, or you are the unstoppable force and they feel hit by something that disappears before they realize why they're shaken, but either way there is a solid structure in the body between a stable support like the ground and the thing acting on you.

It seems sorta reductive to where you might think there's only one thing you train to get one, and one thing you train oppositely to get the opposite. But it more seems like each one is subdivided into a lot of stuff that one needs to work on, with the end goals being more synthesized from all that than an individual thing. The duality is probably just an artifact of looking at the expression, and not necessarily all the skills that create it.