Seiza pain?

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[OwlMatt]

I believe seiza is beginning to cause me persistent pain in my left foot. The left foot is the one whose big toe I curl up to cross over the other. The pain is very sharp and is on the inside of my foot where the foot and ankle come together. At first, this pain was only noticeable when I was in seiza, but then it started to affect my ukemi, and now is noticeable even when doing normal things with the foot like walking.

I have been cutting back on seiza in the dojo; it is to the point now that I only assume the seiza position when bowing and doing kokyudosa to avoid further pain. Even this, though, isn't making it go away.

I am going to see my doctor about this soon, but has anyone else had similar seiza pain? What did you do about it? How long did it last? I am really at my wits' end here.

[Janet Rosen]

None of us can diagnose it from here - could be tendon, fascia, pinching nerve, who knows - , but you are absolutely right to stop doing seiza until it heals.

In general it is pretty common for folks to develop various foot, ankle or knee pains when first doing seiza. Most people don't do any real harm to themselves and are able to slowly condition their bodies for it by starting w/ minimal time in seiza, doing lots of stretching after warmed up, and slowly increasing the time.

But if you have an experience of the pain actually progressing into other activities, you have created an imbalance or acute injury that needs to have a chance to heal itself.

[sakumeikan]

I believe seiza is beginning to cause me persistent pain in my left foot. The left foot is the one whose big toe I curl up to cross over the other. The pain is very sharp and is on the inside of my foot where the foot and ankle come together. At first, this pain was only noticeable when I was in seiza, but then it started to affect my ukemi, and now is noticeable even when doing normal things with the foot like walking.

I have been cutting back on seiza in the dojo; it is to the point now that I only assume the seiza position when bowing and doing kokyudosa to avoid further pain. Even this, though, isn't making it go away.

I am going to see my doctor about this soon, but has anyone else had similar seiza pain? What did you do about it? How long did it last? I am really at my wits' end here.
I would strongly advise you to limit your seiza activity.Having done Aikido for over thirty years and recently suffered from meniscus knee injury I now have virtually a useless right leg which pains me even during sleep.I suggest you rest and seek moreinfo/ assistance from eg a physio/masseur/podiatrist.

[OwlMatt]

I am definitely going to talk to my doctor about this, so I certainly don't expect any of you to be a replacement for that. I was just wondering if this sounded familiar to anyone.

[Robb]

I have problems in my right knee stemming from military training that only allows me to do seiza on good days. I have just made Sensei aware of it and it is no problem when I can't assume seiza position (I usually just kneel on the good knee).

As to your particular problem - it may be a slight arthritis buildup in the ankle joint...usually a simple xray or a more extensive MRI can pinpoint it.

[Randy Sexton]

If you are talking about the bottom of your foot (the sole of the foot) and it is tender to palpation from the junction of the toes all the way to the heel and seems to be worse at the heel and hurts especially first thing in the morning but seems to get better after you walk on it for a while but then seems to get worse as you walk on it through the day you just described "Plantar Fasciitis"

Check it on out on the internet.

Do see your doctor for evaluation.

In the meantime consider Motrin 3 times a day with food and use an ice pack or ice roller daily to cool it down and use good arch supports. Avoid walking barefoot except in the Dojo.

Again, do see your doctor, you may have something else and may need xrays or podiatry evaluation.

Doc Randy

(free advice from a practicing ER doctor)

[OwlMatt]

It's not the bottom of the foot. In fact, I am well-acquainted with plantar fasciitis; my wife has it. My pain is on the top/side of the foot at the instep.

[niall]

Like everyone says ask a doctor. Another possibility if you haven't been doing aikido - or seiza - for very long is bursitis http://www.medicinenet.com/bursitis/article.htm

[cconstantine]

It's not the bottom of the foot. In fact, I am well-acquainted with plantar fasciitis; my wife has it. My pain is on the top/side of the foot at the instep.

Sounds like the anterior talofibular ligament, or it's attachments. (eg, http://kicksnet.com/ankle-foot-anatomy/ ) That's a relatively small ligament [ligaments connect bones to bones] in your foot which can be bothered by the point-your-toes motion (dorsiflexion) combined with the angle-your-toes-towards-each-other motion (adduction). ie, exactly what you do when you sit in seiza. When you see your doctor, be sure to describe the exact "contortion" -- which is what he'll probably call it :) -- of seiza.

My experience has been that the more your "crush" your heels outward with the pressure of your butt, the more you torment that ligament. In seiza, rotating your heels towards each other (or upwards and inwards) will decrease the load on that ligament -- but at the expense of requiring your ankle to point your toes further (reduce adduction, increase dorsiflexion).

I also suggest paying attention to your knee joints. Your knee should be acting as a simple hinge. Do not position your shins under your thighs so that the thigh falls inward nor outward; that loads your knee oddly, which can put a twisting force into your lower leg that "appears" as pain down in your ankle joint where that ligament transfers it from your fibular to the talus.