PDA

View Full Version : Aikido - Breaking the barrier


Please visit our sponsor:
 

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!


Daniel Lloyd
07-01-2010, 07:01 AM
Ever experienced those times where you're out in the public - waiting for a bus or train and some people give you a stare or something similar?

I'm not sure if it's just me but I get a satisfying feeling when I look at said person and smile or nod - which they relax and smile or nod back. I love that fact that Aikido (for me) can break the barrier between strangers and allow people to make friends.

Has anyone else had situations (maybe even situations were near the peak of physical conflict) where all you did was smile or nod/wave and the conflict just melted away?

*I've had several of these experiences and I find that the more I practice Aikido, the more approachable I become. Due to being relaxed and happy with life.*

CarlRylander
07-01-2010, 07:28 AM
I'm reassured.

:) :) :) :) :) :) :)

CarlRylander
07-01-2010, 09:28 AM
I think that things have settled out a bit more, in the world.

There is conflict, but it is resolved and as you said there are ways of stopping it in the first place.

Gorgeous George
07-01-2010, 10:24 AM
No: the dude just said stuff like 'I'm not scared of you', and 'It's none of your business if i beat my wife in public' etc.
I think if his wife had smiled at the abuse, he would have become even more irate in front of their baby.

Lyle Laizure
07-01-2010, 10:50 AM
Being approachable is a double edge sword.

RED
07-01-2010, 11:05 AM
No: the dude just said stuff like 'I'm not scared of you', and 'It's none of your business if i beat my wife in public' etc.
I think if his wife had smiled at the abuse, he would have become even more irate in front of their baby.

... :straightf

Gorgeous George
07-01-2010, 01:32 PM
... :straightf

Haha. It was even more hilarious that, after i had to leave my house around the corner from theirs to go to stop him abusing her (after first calling the police and being told they had already being called), i saw the person living two doors down watching from behind his curtains, and smiling/rolling his eyes at me, like 'This guy, eh?' - like it was just another wacky day with this crazy bastard: what will he do next?!???!

I do feel guilty now, however: i should have intervened way sooner - after he hit her in the head with a massive bag, in fact.

RED
07-01-2010, 02:46 PM
a massive bag, .

Massive bag? Like a grocery bag? Or, a loud old women?

Gorgeous George
07-01-2010, 04:25 PM
Massive bag? Like a grocery bag? Or, a loud old women?

Hahaha. If he had hit her with a loud old woman, you can be certain i wouldn't have fucked with him: i would have told the police to bring guns, and stood well back.

It wasn't a grocery bag: it was about the size of a suitcase, and looked as though it was packed with clothes; she was attempting to leave his ass, so that seems likely.

JW
07-01-2010, 09:25 PM
[QUOTE=George Howard;260393 she was attempting to leave his ass, so that seems likely.[/QUOTE]

Well that part at least is good news. Did she ever succeed? Do you know what happened to her?

Daniel, glad to hear about your successes. I love aikido too, but the relaxed and happy in life part doesn't necessarily come with that. But, what good are we if we don't make the world better in the face of nastiness? Thanks for helping, and good luck!

niall
07-01-2010, 10:10 PM
In Japan in the eighties in a famous case a foreign karateka intervened in a similar physical abuse situation. Unfortunately it ended in the death of the original assaulter (apparently he hit his head on the corner of the pavement). The karateka was charged with murder and then manslaughter before the case was finally thrown out by the Supreme Court. It sent shockwaves through the budo world at the time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Bellamy

http://www.debito.org/?p=83

CarlRylander
07-02-2010, 03:52 AM
Did Ueshiba say you should intervene?

Just being there and capable stops some people.

I've stopped somethings from escalating, with a puzzled frown!

Sometimes, just not getting sucked in and being a rock of calm does the trick.

niall
07-02-2010, 04:32 AM
Intervening is a personal decision. It's nothing to do with O Sensei. I would always intervene and I suspect most people who do budo would - as humans more than budokas. Carl is right that intervention does not mean have to mean physical intervention. I think only once I have needed to use an aikido technique in this kind of situation (although I have used aikido in a larger sense many times - which is more what Daniel was talking about). When a man tried to punch a woman in front of me I was able to catch the punch before it landed and turn him round and get him out of there. Once though in a very similar situation when a friend and I confronted a man who had just slapped a woman hard in the face the woman turned on us and angrily told us to mind our own business. Oh well.

Gorgeous George
07-02-2010, 10:09 AM
Well that part at least is good news. Did she ever succeed? Do you know what happened to her?

Daniel, glad to hear about your successes. I love aikido too, but the relaxed and happy in life part doesn't necessarily come with that. But, what good are we if we don't make the world better in the face of nastiness? Thanks for helping, and good luck!

When the police showed up, they didn't even arrest him; but he did leave, however, and she stayed. She lives across the road from me, and i haven't heard any more abuse since, so for the time being she's ok.
Thing is with people like that though, is that they can't let it lie as it is, so i know he'll be back at some point - either to beat her, or perhaps even stab her...you never know.

@ Carl: In Koichi Tohei's book 'Aikido: Co-ordination of...for the Purpose of Self-Defence', he says that you can use it when you're in personal danger, when another is, or 'At a large meeting, when a small number of rogues is making a nuisance of themselves and inconveniencing or endangering the public'.
But you must first make every effort 'to settle matters peaceably. Only when such efforts seem useless should the arts of aikido be used.
Any one who has learned the principles of non-resistance and still prefers fighting is considered a failure as a student'.

@ Niall: haha, i know what you mean - i once read about somebody who intervened to stop a man beating a woman, and she started attacking him. I've also seen a woman slapped in the street by 'her man', so hard one of her ear-rings came out...she then tearfully followed after him, hoping for a reconciliation.
I mean, there's only so much you can do for certain people, even if it will lead to their death.

CarlRylander
07-03-2010, 05:05 AM
I've been spat at. Looking back, I should have have just gone and sat in the other bar. It's difficult for me, cos some places I have been, I'm despicable in the eyes of many, but there should be some way to defuse situations without being a complete waste of space, in order to fit in. I can't help but wind people up, sometimes, just by existing, and that's not physical or mental Aikido! I've got another thirty or forty years left to learn, I suppose.

CarlRylander
07-03-2010, 06:36 AM
Good aikidokists should make sure they are in the right place at the right time, too!

Randy Sexton
07-03-2010, 04:57 PM
Thinking about this leads me to remember Yoda's line to Anakin Skywalker:
"Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering"

When you look into their heart most anger is based on self desired wants or needs. The guy who you accidentally bump into is afraid he is going to be hurt by you (fear) or afraid of losing respect by his friends or girl if he does not retaliate (fear) or he may react spontaneously in retaliation (anger). Or the guy who purposely bumps into you looking for a fight is seeking to boost his ego/self-respect (fear of realizing how small and defenseless he truly is) or wanting to fight to get out some rage against someone else in the classic scenario of looking for a fight (anger and hate and fear from loss of love, lose of respect, loss of control in his job or love or family problems.
.
I try to be the mirror and be calm and ask, what is it he is afraid of ?
Loss of Respect? I can apologize with sincerity.
Fear of Injury? I can be calm and non-threatening but alert.
Fear of being weak? I can allow him to feel strong and unafraid.

Food for thought,
Doc

CarlRylander
07-04-2010, 05:38 AM
Thanks, randy.

You can defuse situations by not reacting, too. I was once picked up and thrown by someone, and I just carried on walking, without showing any fear or reaction.

The whole bar looked at me in awe! You can get some places in this world where you are treated with utter contempt if you don't fight, but if you do, you are fighting at least three of them, if not a hundred and the police and courts are sometimes on their side. If you don't take a kicking, you are stupid and not of this Earth, and if you do, you are contemptible and laughable.

The answer is just to look capable. And there. And not adding to the situation. And, as you said, try to see the man in all men, and give them respect,despite their lack of manners, which I admit sometimes can't do with some, sometimes.

You can get some situations, with very devious people, where they make your life unbearable, provoke you into starting something, then beat you up, two of them at once, and make you look like the bad guy and the antagonist. And the police laugh at you. That cuts very deep. The answer is to be there and be capable and keep going.

Thanks.

CarlRylander
07-04-2010, 06:06 AM
Also, I would say, as Aikidoka, you should minimise your contact with people you have little in common with, and maximise it with people you have a lot in common with. You can get people who you have a only a tiny tiny bit in common with, and they con you into thinking they have a lot, and all they want to do is take what you have learned, use it to defeat you, and give you absolutely nothing in return and have no intention of doing so, as long as you live. This may be because they feel very much in a minority themselves of course, as do a lot of people, though there are about 6 billion of them at the moment! I think one of the goals of buddhism, is to overcome delusion and see things as they are.

Be capable and be in this world.

C. David Henderson
07-04-2010, 08:05 PM
1. So we're like hot-house flowers? Can't deal with those different from ourselves?

2. Those who are different are bad, manipulative, and out to get us?

3. And, subtracting the miniscule proportion of people who practice aikido, the rest do bad things because they haven't noticed they're the overwhelming majority?

Sorry, I don't see things anything like this, and I don't think that's how things "really are."

If you can't relate to folks different than yourself, and you think they're out to get you, it seems to me aikido led you into delusion, not away from it.

Maybe I don't understand what you were trying to say?

mathewjgano
07-04-2010, 11:52 PM
Also, I would say, as Aikidoka, you should minimise your contact with people you have little in common with, and maximise it with people you have a lot in common with. You can get people who you have a only a tiny tiny bit in common with, and they con you into thinking they have a lot...
As a blanket statement, i think I have to disagree, though I suppose it depends on what a person is trying to accomplish. You can have contact with people who have a lot in common with you and still get conned by them...in fact I'd say it's generally easier to get conned by those folks. When I'm around folks I don't know very well or otherwise feel I have little in common with, I'm generally on my game a lot more than when I'm around people who seem very familiar (i.e. my critical thinking goes way up). Also, i hold a diversity of experiences as being hugely important and I can't learn as well from that by hanging out with people similar to myself.
I use vision as an analogy: you can sense depth with one eye, but two eyes gives a far greater sense of depth. Add another set and some good communication ability and suddenly you can triangulate something far more profound than those initial 2D and 3D images.

Michael Hackett
07-05-2010, 12:36 AM
Associating with only those who are like me would make living unbearable in many respects. Meeting those who are different, who have different opinions, different experiences, different interests bring spice to my life. The exposure to difference broadens my horizons.

CarlRylander
07-05-2010, 04:11 AM
The reason I say this, is cos in John Stevens biography, it said that Uheiba didn't turn up to some demonstrations, if the vibe didn't feel right.

OK, meet and talk to all people. But, in my experience, there are some, whom, charming as they are, aren't good to stay around for a long while. You end up wearing your batteries down. I've been in positions where, out of stubborness, and a desire to prove how tough I am, I've interacted with people, who really, shouldn't have many friends at all, but do, cos they are really experienced con men.

YOU might meet them, and they may say, 'Hey, you've really impressed me with that move! Can you show me it again?' And, they'll want to see it again and again and again, until you trip up.

Just show them the once. Then, say goodbye.

CarlRylander
07-05-2010, 04:37 AM
Or, ask to see what they can do! An exchange.

:)

You need some psychology to do MA. I think it comes as you go along.

CarlRylander
07-05-2010, 05:08 AM
You really shouldn't stay around people too long, though.

But, you should leave on good terms.

CarlRylander
07-05-2010, 05:45 AM
To tell you the truth, i don't really know whether my experiences are relevant, cos, basically, I'm an extremophile, I think! I've survived in an extreme environment and I think I could survive in another.

Just a thought.

sakumeikan
07-05-2010, 07:08 AM
Thanks, randy.

You can defuse situations by not reacting, too. I was once picked up and thrown by someone, and I just carried on walking, without showing any fear or reaction.

The whole bar looked at me in awe! You can get some places in this world where you are treated with utter contempt if you don't fight, but if you do, you are fighting at least three of them, if not a hundred and the police and courts are sometimes on their side. If you don't take a kicking, you are stupid and not of this Earth, and if you do, you are contemptible and laughable.

The answer is just to look capable. And there. And not adding to the situation. And, as you said, try to see the man in all men, and give them respect,despite their lack of manners, which I admit sometimes can't do with some, sometimes.

You can get some situations, with very devious people, where they make your life unbearable, provoke you into starting something, then beat you up, two of them at once, and make you look like the bad guy and the antagonist. And the police laugh at you. That cuts very deep. The answer is to be there and be capable and keep going.

Thanks.
Seems to me that you lack common sense and cannot judge a situation.Why put your self in such a position? Surely the first thing anybody with a degree of skill does is weigh up /sense the environment that is there and if the vibes are not good , you exit said environment.That way you dont risk getting into a scenario which you might find dangerous.Remember the saying retreat is not defeat,

CarlRylander
07-05-2010, 08:42 AM
That may be, but someone else here has said that you should try to mix with all people!

I don't think any of you would get EXACTLY the same problems, cos you would all look physically capable. And one of the people I altercated with lived beneath me, and was difficult to get away from.

What, for example would you do if you ended up in prison? Would you abandon Aikido and say it is not applicable? Or only use it once or twice and say that is good enough? I think Ueshiba could have survived a stretch and taught people a thing or two.

I think if he visited some of the places I have been, he would do a good, convincing demo, that would impress all, but I think he would only stay in the bar for a half!

CarlRylander
07-05-2010, 09:04 AM
Or, maybe the bar would lose a few patrons.

Just trying to share experience!

CarlRylander
07-05-2010, 09:35 AM
And i suppose the answer is, to take my own advice, is that life is not always like an Aikido demonstration. Sometimes, you bump into people.

No disharmony intended!

C. David Henderson
07-05-2010, 11:11 AM
That may be, but someone else here has said that you should try to mix with all people!


Not quite.

I think the point is not to restrict yourself simply to people who are just like you or who practice a particular martial art with the unwarranted assumption that they are the good folks and the others aren't to be trusted.

That doesn't mean "hang out even with people you know or percieve to be (dangerous, dishonest, trouble...)" based on naive idealism. There are lots of peaceful, honest people out there and most of them don't practice aikido or hang around rough bars showing techniques.

It sounds like you've been in some dicey situations in that regard. If that's the kind of place you where you find yourself spending time, and can't or don't want to make a different choice, there are people who teach how to spot, avoid, and try to manage those kinds of situations. You might find what they have to say useful.

Regards

mathewjgano
07-05-2010, 11:51 AM
The reason I say this, is cos in John Stevens biography, it said that Uheiba didn't turn up to some demonstrations, if the vibe didn't feel right.

OK, meet and talk to all people. But, in my experience, there are some, whom, charming as they are, aren't good to stay around for a long while. You end up wearing your batteries down. I've been in positions where, out of stubborness, and a desire to prove how tough I am, I've interacted with people, who really, shouldn't have many friends at all, but do, cos they are really experienced con men.

YOU might meet them, and they may say, 'Hey, you've really impressed me with that move! Can you show me it again?' And, they'll want to see it again and again and again, until you trip up.

Just show them the once. Then, say goodbye.

I think I see what you're saying now. I think the problem I had with your earlier remarks was that they seemed a little over-simplified. I wouldn't describe it as "maximize/minimize" unless you include something to show that the relationships should occassionally reverse too. I once knew a guy who was a lot like how you described above. He definately wore my batteries down...and being that I was pretty depressed at the time it probably wasn't the healthiest friendship. I remember once we were watching TV and he decided he was going to start hitting me in the ribs. They weren't real hard, but they were annoying so naturally i put my arm up and deflected them a bit. The angle I used started to cause some friction which became uncomfortable for him because he said, "oh you're trying to make it sting." All I did was put my arm up, he provided most of the impact (and the intent to sting), and as soon as it became unpleasant for him he lost interest.
There are a lot of stories like this because I lived with the guy for 2 years. I've often thought about what I could have done to "break through the barrier" because while I think the guy was a pretty well-accomplished A-hole, he was also very cool in many other ways. The only answer I've come up with so far is that I should have been more engaged. As soon as he would act up I would usually disengage, which ironically became something of a target for him.
Now, I agree with you that sometimes you SHOULD disengage from a "bad" situation/person. Rather than hang around very disengaged, I probably should have either left altogether or found a way to directly deal with the unhealthy relationship our friendship had formed.
So, in all things we should probably find balance. It's like working out: you place strain on yourself to promote growth and adaptation; it makes you stronger, but only when you don't allow the strain to overwhelm you.
I like the phrase "mutually beneficial relationship" because it gives me a starting point for all my interpersonal interactions. How do we break through the interpersonal barriers we find around us? Finding common ground is the only answer I have so far, and that means taking care of yourself along with the other. If one of those agents isn't being taken care of, it's not a mutually beneficial relationship.
The intuition you describe is a bit more difficult to pin down, but I think it's just as important to work on. If you get a bad vibe, listen to it, but where possible, still question it so you can learn from it. Developing intuition can be tough: I know folks who shy away from all kinds of things just because they inject their own "bad" into the vibe.
Ok, I'm off to put my sick rambling self back to bed!
Take care,
Matt

Phil Van Treese
07-05-2010, 01:23 PM
I had an experience once where a woman looked at me up and down. Talk about an attitude----wow!!!! I went over to her and asked her what her problem was. Long story short--we've been happily married now for 5 years. While I am the sensei on the mat, she's the "sensei" in the home!!!!

lbb
07-05-2010, 08:58 PM
That may be, but someone else here has said that you should try to mix with all people!

I don't try to mix with all people. People with certain kinds of mental disturbances, for instance, I stay away from. Don't ask me for a clinical definition because I don't have one -- I just know that when my "bad crazy" radar pings, I listen and take myself elsewhere. People who behave like oafs, likewise, I tend to stay away from, particularly if they combine oafishness with belligerence, bad drinking behavior or both.

What, for example would you do if you ended up in prison?

I'd deal. I have no idea whether aikido would be part of that or not. I do know that making statements about what you'd do in a situation that's really far removed from your current reality is about the same as writing a fantasy novel.

I think if he visited some of the places I have been, he would do a good, convincing demo, that would impress all, but I think he would only stay in the bar for a half!

Can't help you there. I'm not a "What would Ueshiba do?" fundamentalist.

Michael Hackett
07-05-2010, 09:45 PM
I think I was the one who suggested the benefit of diversity. What I didn't suggest, and I don't think I implied, that one should mix with all people, all the time. There is a time and place for all things. I'm not about to attend a KKK rally - just isn't going to happen. Even though their viewpoint might be interesting, some things aren't worth the price of admission.

I am both interested and curious about other people, their culture and their viewpoints. If I only associated with those very much like me, life would just be boring. Some folks are different and they are dangerous so a little common sense goes a long way. I tend to stay away from dangerous people and situations - I made my living for many, many years seeking them out and I ain't gonna do it for free today.

Janet Rosen
07-06-2010, 12:18 AM
Sheesh...I get along with all kinds of people, and I can read and de-escalate all kinds of situations....but reading this thread, I think my policy of hanging out in cafes instead of bars is maybe the smartest choice I've made.

CarlRylander
07-06-2010, 02:58 AM
Even mild mannered Clark Kent sometimes ended up in the wrong place at the wrong time! Something happens to me about once every five years, and now, I have found, showing lack of fear works a lot. Sometimes, not going to certain places does the trick and sometimes,staking your place, refusing to clear off, just cos they don't like the look of you, works too. If you're spat at, move ! Cos that, obviously, is a big warning sign, that things are going to escalate. Some people also, want you drinking just with them, so they can keep an eye on you and make sure you're not making 'friends' elsewhere!

You shouldn't segregate people, though, I think. Segregation leads to arrogance and delusions of superiority and then to failure. Speak to all people, but just be wise and know when the time is up.

Actually, thinking again, I think you wouldn't even notice Ueshiba in a bar! I can do that a bit.

CarlRylander
07-06-2010, 03:14 AM
I've visited lots of places and I can read people there, quite well. Most people like me, I'm unobjectionable, but there are some that find it a little difficult to get used to me.

CarlRylander
07-06-2010, 03:33 AM
No disharmony intended.

:)

CarlRylander
07-07-2010, 03:18 AM
Having looked at some of Ueshiba's 100 sayings on my PC, he said that you should not concern yourself with the good and bad of others, cos that only lets maliciousness into your heart. Also, you should not judge or compete with others.

I think he just means you should just interact.I think from that, there should be a mutual agreement, based on your instincts, and the other person/people, as to when you should leave and to who you should interact with and you should not segregate, or be aloof nor be too pressing. Just interact.

Common sense really.

:) :) :)

lbb
07-07-2010, 06:16 PM
You can't unilaterally create a mutual agreement.

Shannon Frye
07-07-2010, 10:47 PM
Maybe I should just wear a paper bag over my head! Or put a curtain round myself!

Hey, the shower curtain thingy worked for Daniel at the school dance (Karate Kid 1):D :D

CarlRylander
07-08-2010, 07:44 AM
You can't unilaterally create a mutual agreement.

Of course. Empathy and compassion are required. That's part of buddhism.

lbb
07-08-2010, 08:33 AM
Of course. Empathy and compassion are required. That's part of buddhism.

That isn't my point, Carl. A "mutual agreement" means agreement between/among two or more parties. You cannot decide to create a "mutual agreement" all by yourself, no matter how much "empathy and compassion" you have, and no matter what religious tenets you cite. Other people are involved too, and you can only extend understanding, compassion, empathy and all that good stuff for yourself. You cannot do so for others or compel others to do so.

C. David Henderson
07-08-2010, 10:20 AM
On the one hand, I heard Carl to suggest that, by cultivating a certain frame of mind (and heart), one may depend on intuition as a guide in interactions with, say, strangers.

(I don't know if that's true, being insufficiently cultivated myself to have experienced it. I'm guessing it may bear some relationship to stories, however, of martial artists like Ueshiba and Takeda reportedly being able to "read" other people.)

Even so, reading people is a lot easier if you have fewer unknowns, or even understandings about the parameters of the relationship. Most times I hear accounts of "verbal aikido," it seems to me the effectiveness of the words depended on a bunch of largely unspoken things about the interaction and relationship.

So, I also can see why mutual understandings of the kind we create in a dojo environment helps us match our expectations to our interactions without access to special perceptive skill.

As to this, I certainly agree with Mary -- takes two to agree.

As for intuition, I think sometimes I put too much store in my own, and others that I mistake my impulses or reactions for insight. Still, whatever complex of mental processes I give that label, I often do depend on it. Much less scary to do so when a tacit agreement exists about what we're all up to.

For that matter, in the "tough bar" scenario, there kind of is a tacit agreement. If you hang out there, you should be prepared for the kind of ... stuff that's likely to happen.

2 cents.

thisisnotreal
07-08-2010, 11:32 AM
You can't unilaterally create a mutual agreement.

hey.... wait a sec....What about that as a functional definition of Aikido?

Unilaterally creating a mutual agreement?

]\)...seriously. thoughts?

lbb
07-08-2010, 01:53 PM
hey.... wait a sec....What about that as a functional definition of Aikido?

Unilaterally creating a mutual agreement?

]\)...seriously. thoughts?

Unless you are humpty-dumptying the meaning of the words "unilaterally" and "mutual", the answer is a categorical no.

thisisnotreal
07-08-2010, 02:08 PM
unilaterally = one side
mutual = both

Unilaterally creating a mutual agreement

one side creates an agreement both buy into. whether or not you want to is a different question. i guess the question is whether an agreement can be 'forced'. i've felt forced to agree in the past. in fact i feel forced to agree now. i guess we can both agree that i was wrong.
wordplay is not a specialty of mine. it was just a thought.
no worries.

C. David Henderson
07-08-2010, 02:19 PM
Oh no, it's Xeno's paradox deja vu all over again.

The arrow doesn't reach it's target in theory, but seems to have no problem doing so when you actually put it in motion; one person can't unilaterally create an agreement -- unless the other fella changes his position for some reason (like an offer he can't refuse.)

What about aikido is supposed to create such an opening? Does it?

phitruong
07-08-2010, 03:05 PM
unilaterally = one side
mutual = both

Unilaterally creating a mutual agreement


was in a crowded elevator one time and someone had a bad bean day (wasn't me, honest). suffice to say, we all mutually agreed to exit the elevator as soon as it open even if it wasn't our floor to get off. ;)

lbb
07-08-2010, 03:12 PM
unilaterally = one side
mutual = both

Unilaterally creating a mutual agreement

one side creates an agreement both buy into.

Nope. At the point that the one side has created it, it isn't an agreement. It's a proposal, perhaps, but it it only becomes an agreement when another party agrees to it (hence the word "agreement").

RED
07-08-2010, 07:46 PM
unilaterally = one side
mutual = both

Unilaterally creating a mutual agreement

one side creates an agreement both buy into. whether or not you want to is a different question. i guess the question is whether an agreement can be 'forced'. i've felt forced to agree in the past. in fact i feel forced to agree now. i guess we can both agree that i was wrong.
wordplay is not a specialty of mine. it was just a thought.
no worries.

lol this conversation between you two is awesome.
I hope you can reach a mutual agreement soon. :p

Gosh I can hear my Sensei now, "Stop being the dictionary police and train!" lol

Shannon Frye
07-09-2010, 12:27 AM
Unilateralism is any doctrine or agenda that supports one-sided action. Such action may be in disregard for other parties, or as an expression of a commitment toward a direction which other parties may find agreeable.

This is what we do in Aikido - we decide for ourselves that we really don't want to get beat up - we ourselves decide the best course of action, and then impose that decision on the opponent. Somewhere between "he grabbed me" and "HIYAAAAA" is the blending, or 'mutual' part.

CarlRylander
07-09-2010, 02:58 AM
Ueshiba also said:

At certain times, the entire universe becomes our foe!

At such times, unity of body and mind are essential.

Is that unilateral or multilateral?

CarlRylander
07-10-2010, 05:08 AM
Aikido should be dynamic, too,

It's like that line from the Queen song 'One vision':

'No hate, no fight, just excitation'!!

Perhaps that's why it's waned a bit in recent years.

If you look at photos of a young Ueshiba, he looked quite aggressive, quite riled, in fact. He learned to get out his aggression first, then temper it? That's why I don't know whether to do Aikido first, then a bit of striking art,or the other way round, though it might take me till I'm 80 to work it out, then it will be too late!

Is Aikido for the whole world? Is that what Ueshiba wanted?

lbb
07-10-2010, 05:32 AM
If you look at photos of a young Ueshiba, he looked quite aggressive, quite riled, in fact. He learned to get out his aggression first, then temper it? That's why I don't know whether to do Aikido first, then a bit of striking art,or the other way round, though it might take me till I'm 80 to work it out, then it will be too late!

The purpose and function of martial arts training, of any style, is not to "get your aggressions out". Acting out aggression increases it, it doesn't diminish it.

CarlRylander
07-10-2010, 05:41 AM
Even boxing is known as the noble gentleman's art of self defence.

I do know that!

:)

mathewjgano
07-10-2010, 02:15 PM
Is Aikido for the whole world? Is that what Ueshiba wanted?

How do you mean the first question? As, "should everyone learn it?" Or as, "can it be a good practice for anyone?" Or something else?
Of course I don't know, but my guess is that Ueshiba wanted the world to be as positively realized as it possibly can be (whatever that might mean) and that his Aikido reflected principles of nature which could lead to that. However, being principles of Great Nature, one doesn't necessarily have to even know about Aikido to practice them.
Should the whole world study Buddhism? Or Kung Fu? I would say only those for whom these things resonate.