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Zenjamin
06-28-2010, 04:05 PM
Hello.
Recently, I have been thinking of the elements, and how they relate to life.

I am interested in Aikido, so as a sort of introduction, let me start with a question.

Which element do you think Aikido is?
Earth, air, water, fire, wood, metal, ect....

I know Aikido and Tai Chi are verry similar in certian principals, And I know Tai Chi is charactized as being like water.
However, Tai Chi seems abit more deleberate. A tad more graceful. And a tad more feminimine.... and I do not mean that in a negative sense. I only mean that Tia Chi seems abit more yin then yang.

Given their relationships, if Tia Chi is water, Aikido seems to be more air.
Both spiritual. Both flowing. Both a little more soft, but enough differences to have them be of differient elements.

So..... Aikido= Air.
Does the anaology hold true.... from an elemental perspective?

jbblack
06-28-2010, 04:13 PM
Check out Robert Frager Sensei he has a DVD that addresses this.

https://www.createspace.com/238419

Aikido and The Five Rings and Stories of O-Sensei

This DVD contains two major videos with Robert Frager, 7th Dan. The first video applies the concepts of The Five Rings of Miyomoto Musashi (Ground, Wind, Fire, Water and Void) to training in Aikido. Included are demonstrations with sword as well as empty hand techniques. (35 min.)

Cheers,
Jeff

RED
06-28-2010, 04:14 PM
I don't like the classification.
O'sensei refereed to Aikido as both ying and yang...but besides that,this is too new age for me. I personally like the saying "Less talking, less thinking-- more training."

Zenjamin
06-28-2010, 04:21 PM
Thanks Jeff.... But im having trouble comming up with rent money, so that wont happen for awhile.

And Maggie.
I can get that philosophy..... but if thats the way you feel, what the hell are you doing on a discussion forum? :P

In all seriousness thuogh. I know that Aikido is not so easy to classify or contain. And I know it has elements of each element. And I know that at the end of the day, you just have to empty your mind and channel the Ki to do what you trained your body to do.

.... but that doesnt mean that these discussions are pointless.
If nothing else, they generate new thoughts and angles from which to look at things. And that can be good in and of itself.

Marc Abrams
06-28-2010, 04:25 PM
I think that Aikido is a Mojito!

A little bit sweet, a little bit spicy, a little bit bubbly and definitely intoxicating :)

Marc Abrams

RED
06-28-2010, 04:28 PM
And Maggie.
I can get that philosophy..... but if thats the way you feel, what the hell are you doing on a discussion forum? :P

.

Waiting for my baked ziti to finish cooking of course. An Aikidoka's got to eat too. :cool:

Pauliina Lievonen
06-28-2010, 04:53 PM
When some people throw you it feels like steel surrounded by air...or air until you meet the steel, or something like that. Or water... that you hit from a great height.

What I'm trying to say is, really good aikido to me is both fluent and soft and very hard and powerful at the same time.

So have you been to a class yet? :)

kvaak
Pauliina

lbb
06-28-2010, 05:06 PM
In all seriousness thuogh. I know that Aikido is not so easy to classify or contain. And I know it has elements of each element. And I know that at the end of the day, you just have to empty your mind and channel the Ki to do what you trained your body to do.

.... but that doesnt mean that these discussions are pointless.
If nothing else, they generate new thoughts and angles from which to look at things. And that can be good in and of itself.

That's true, but it's hard for discussions to proceed if you don't know your terms. I know that for myself, while I have heard of the Chinese five elements, I don't know what they really mean. Do you? I think many Westerners would be inclined to view them as metaphor, but I'm not sure that a Chinese person would see them the same way. Anyway, I don't, so I don't know what the answer to your question would be.

danj
06-28-2010, 06:41 PM
A quote from Yoshigasaki Sensei at one of his seminars that has always resonated well is 'only when your concept of aikido improves will your aikido improve'. Since then I have worked through many helpful concepts, metaphors and ideas be they new and old, eastern and western. Aikido is Air I can work with that one too...

Adam Huss
06-28-2010, 09:37 PM
Well I have no opinion relating aikido to any element.

I will say that I agree with Yoshigasaki Sensei's statement. One of my old teachers used to say that, every few years, he reread a certain aikido book and got totally new meaning out of a lot of it.

danj
06-28-2010, 11:01 PM
Well I have no opinion relating aikido to any element.

I will say that I agree with Yoshigasaki Sensei's statement. One of my old teachers used to say that, every few years, he reread a certain aikido book and got totally new meaning out of a lot of it.

OK I'll bite, which book? sounds like a treasure

Adam Huss
06-29-2010, 01:09 AM
Aikido and the Dynamic Sphere...I'm not a big fan, but he was, and I can definitely see how he could get more out of it each reading over the years. Makes sense.

TreyPrice
06-29-2010, 09:05 AM
Takemusu - Aikido is what Aikido needs to be.

My $.02

Train well!

Don_Modesto
06-29-2010, 10:50 AM
Which element do you think Aikido is?
Earth, air, water, fire, wood, metal, ect....

Hitch-hiking across Florida once, I got picked up by a dope-growing redneck in a rusty burned-out sedan. Your question reminds me of his hospitable query while digging on the radio, "Which do you like, treble or bass?"

DH
06-29-2010, 11:21 AM
Maybe we can wait till Friday. I am sure that ang can tell us what we're bending.....

Rob Watson
06-29-2010, 12:57 PM
Which element do you think Aikido is?
Earth, air, water, fire, wood, metal, ect....

And people wonder why everyone thinks aikido folks are goofy ... seriously, wake up and plant some roses.

Besides, clearly, aikido is energy shaped and guided by spirit and operates beyond the lowly material realms governed by the 5 elements.

phitruong
06-29-2010, 03:27 PM
if aikido = air, wouldn't that make the heads of various aikido orgs, airheads? :D

Hellis
06-29-2010, 03:56 PM
And people wonder why everyone thinks aikido folks are goofy ... seriously, wake up and plant some roses.

Robert, thanks for injecting some common sense.
I really did wonder how far people would go along with this. perhaps the OP needs to release some other air ?

Henry Ellis
http://www.british-aikido.com

Michael Hackett
06-29-2010, 07:17 PM
Sounds like a bad case of pneumocephalus to me.

mathewjgano
06-29-2010, 08:55 PM
Hello.
Recently, I have been thinking of the elements, and how they relate to life.

I am interested in Aikido, so as a sort of introduction, let me start with a question.

Which element do you think Aikido is?
Earth, air, water, fire, wood, metal, ect....

I know Aikido and Tai Chi are verry similar in certian principals, And I know Tai Chi is charactized as being like water.
However, Tai Chi seems abit more deleberate. A tad more graceful. And a tad more feminimine.... and I do not mean that in a negative sense. I only mean that Tia Chi seems abit more yin then yang.

Given their relationships, if Tia Chi is water, Aikido seems to be more air.
Both spiritual. Both flowing. Both a little more soft, but enough differences to have them be of differient elements.

So..... Aikido= Air.
Does the anaology hold true.... from an elemental perspective?

My contribution to the smart-assed remarks is that I think it's more like the element He: noble and, yes, sometimes makes you talk funny.
I have a hard time understanding some of the classical element metaphors so i tend to think in terms of gas, liquid, and solid, which can represent relative stages of coalescence of force. :triangle: :circle: :square:
http://www.kannagara.org/aikido
I think Mary's point is a very good one. Benjamin, maybe you could describe your understanding of those elements and how they apply to movement and mindset? Maybe then folks will have something more concrete to grab hold of.

David Yap
06-30-2010, 01:50 AM
Hi,

Here's a good read regarding the oriental concept of the five elements and it's relationship to aikido.

http://www.seishinryu.net/five.htm

The concept of the five elements, imho, is an extension of the Ying-Yang concept. Both are about the balance of nature. In ones journey of the aikido path, one would surely experience the different elements at different phases/levels of training. This is also a matter of choice of whether one choose to move from one phase to another. Ultimately, one man's Yin is another man's Yang.

Just my 2-sen.

Regards

David Y

Don_Modesto
06-30-2010, 07:14 AM
if aikido = air, wouldn't that make the heads of various aikido orgs, airheads? :DNo Like button on AikiWeb, is there...

Keith Larman
06-30-2010, 07:44 AM
No Like button on AikiWeb, is there...

Yeah, along the same lines I think you have to be sure to consider the relative temperature of said air to evaluate it's qualitative properties...

mathewjgano
07-12-2010, 12:32 PM
I was reading Niall's great blog post here (http://www.aikiweb.com/blogs/moon-in-the-water-19051/wind-forest-fire-mountai-3961/) and was reminded of this thread. It's a great read!

Greg Jennings
07-12-2010, 12:51 PM
Diamond, Willow, Water, Air.

geoffsaulnier
07-13-2010, 09:29 AM
Aikido and the Dynamic Sphere...I'm not a big fan, but he was, and I can definitely see how he could get more out of it each reading over the years. Makes sense.

I have the same happen to me when reading Saotome's Principles of Aikido. Awesome book. I think I have owned it for about 20 odd years now, and it means something different to me every time I read it.

G>

Hebrew Hammer
07-13-2010, 11:05 AM
Perhaps Aikido is a fulcrum, a rare occurrance, a freak of nature, a natural disaster, a destructive force, or something to behold.

Amassus
07-13-2010, 06:40 PM
I train at a High School Rec. Centre where a karate class comes in straight after us. The sensei of that class often refers to karate as wood and aikido as water. He has a deep respect for both arts.

For what its worth.

Dean.

Dennis Hooker
07-14-2010, 10:11 AM
Saotome Shihan's books are indeed worth rereading ,as is The Spirit of Aikido by the second Doshu, this book should be in every Aikido dojo.