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kokyu
06-27-2010, 10:35 AM
If you watch the omote and ura versions of yokomenuchi gokyo, the initial irimi looks similar, i.e. move to the side and off balance uke


Omote (http://www.aikikai.nl/movies/T_Yokomen_Gokyo_O.ram)

Ura (http://www.aikikai.nl/movies/T_Yokomen_Gokyo_U.ram)

This is quite confusing, because it appears that omote and ura start from the same foot movement. Even for katadori nikyo omote and ura, one can distinguish omote as a diagonal movement away from uke, while ura as a sideways movement, more in parallel with uke's shoulder... but the diagonal movement (in the form of irimi tenkan) doesn't quite work for yokomenuchi gokyo, because uke still presses you with the attack (or knife)... I've done some searching and I've found at least one school that emphasizes the ura version of yokomenuchi gokyo

... so my question is... is the initial foot/hand movement the same irregardless of whether the technique is omote or ura?

Abasan
06-27-2010, 11:58 AM
Nothing confusing on why gokyo for yokomen is done that way as you yourself have noted. Since you're keeping the blade away from you and above (for easy gokyo), going into an omote positioning just makes that all the more difficult so why do it?

If you're talking about kihon waza then, the initial movement is more or less fixed as you've indicated. Kind of why nikkyo omote looks more like an ikkyo variation rather than a nikkyo viz a viz the ura version.

Other than that, anything goes I suppose.

sakumeikan
06-27-2010, 12:39 PM
If you watch the omote and ura versions of yokomenuchi gokyo, the initial irimi looks similar, i.e. move to the side and off balance uke


Omote (http://www.aikikai.nl/movies/T_Yokomen_Gokyo_O.ram)

Ura (http://www.aikikai.nl/movies/T_Yokomen_Gokyo_U.ram)

This is quite confusing, because it appears that omote and ura start from the same foot movement. Even for katadori nikyo omote and ura, one can distinguish omote as a diagonal movement away from uke, while ura as a sideways movement, more in parallel with uke's shoulder... but the diagonal movement (in the form of irimi tenkan) doesn't quite work for yokomenuchi gokyo, because uke still presses you with the attack (or knife)... I've done some searching and I've found at least one school that emphasizes the ura version of yokomenuchi gokyo

... so my question is... is the initial foot/hand movement the same irregardless of whether the technique is omote or ura?
Basic Yonkyo requires you to enter firmly into Ukes attack [make strong atemi to Ukes face ] .Control attack arm mid forearm and secure wrist of Uke. Since there can be a knife /bottle attack,
an irimi entry i.m.o. is not too clever[you may still be in danger from knife ].
Far better to enter into dead side of opponent [by utilising Tenkan ] and drive Uke with a forward motion into the tatami.Pin in usual manner.
I personally would meet the initial attack in an gyaku Hamni posture.

NagaBaba
06-27-2010, 07:17 PM
... so my question is... is the initial foot/hand movement the same irregardless of whether the technique is omote or ura?

I think irimi entry is more easy to learn for beginners, that is why they teach you irimi for omote and ura. However, in reality, you can always meet yokomen going one step forward(irimi) or one step backward(we call it tenchi). It has nothing to do with omote or ura. Sometimes you are late in timing(or attack is way too powerful, or you want to create a surprise...etc), so you have no time to enter irimi. In such case you can do tenchi.

Of course you hit attacker while doing irimi or tenchi :) And don't worry about a knife, nobody will ever attack you like that. Not even your wife :p Tanto dori in aikido is not about knife fighting...

kokyu
06-28-2010, 11:05 AM
Far better to enter into dead side of opponent [by utilising Tenkan ] and drive Uke with a forward motion into the tatami.Pin in usual manner.

I think it's a bit more difficult to enter dead side for yokomenuchi... would have to ensure uke's attack is swept away in front before moving to the dead side

kokyu
06-28-2010, 11:08 AM
And don't worry about a knife, nobody will ever attack you like that. Not even your wife :p Tanto dori in aikido is not about knife fighting...

Hmmm... yeah i guess tsuki is the most likely attack with a knife... although i'm not going to guess how your wife attacks :p