View Full Version : Inner reflection/what you want from others

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Bruce Baker
04-26-2002, 07:00 PM
I used to wonder why we can't all get along with other people from different backrounds, when we have difficulty getting along with people from our own backround?

Is it because "we dislike the things we see in others because we dislike these things in ourselves?"

Think about it?

You go to Aikido class, to work, or even here on the Aikiweb, and instantly you dislike the person you see ... or are angered at the way certain words are strung together? Why?

Examine the things you see in others and want to take for your own personality, the things you most dislike in others, and see if these things are stumbling blocks in your life or as well as your Aikido?

If you can't see that scenario, then examine your attitude of having been there done that, compared to someone else exploring avenues you did or did not take, and if you harmonize to clarify mistaken points, or condescend to regain peer status or superiority? Are they Aiki responses or behavior norms within your lifestyle?

What happens when you drop the walls that you put up to maintain either secrets or privacy, are you comfortable with that person? Can that person accept the responsibility of having created a particular vision of what people and the world should be, opposed to what he or she encounters in everyday life?

Maybe exploring our own personality and different ways to look at learning may not enhance our physical aikido practice, but accepting and understanding flaws within ourselves and our Aikido friends will indeed enhance our spiritual side of Aikido practice?

Any thoughts about pursueing this avenue of Aiki?

Accepting the flaws or irritating qualities of our Aikido friends or acquaintences, while learning not to be domineering?

It is not so far fetched.

But how to spot behavior, and curb it to societies norms? These norms being different within your placement in the big wide world, and experience within those terms?

Example, someone cursing in New York is considered everyday street behavior, but bad manners in family, and places of worship?

How can we use Aikido's blending and harmonizing lessons for these life lessons too?

(for my own edification, could those who use the term "troll" please go into detail as to where they learned this term, and why they think it has a derogatory meaning? I missed that one?)


04-26-2002, 07:56 PM
Originally posted by Bruce Baker
(for my own edification, could those who use the term "troll" please go into detail as to where they learned this term, and why they think it has a derogatory meaning? I missed that one?)


1. v.,n. [From the Usenet group alt.folklore.urban] To utter a posting on Usenet designed to attract predictable responses or flames; or, the post itself. Derives from the phrase "trolling for newbies" which in turn comes from mainstream "trolling", a style of fishing in which one trails bait through a likely spot hoping for a bite. The well-constructed troll is a post that induces lots of newbies and flamers to make themselves look even more clueless than they already do, while subtly conveying to the more savvy and experienced that it is in fact a deliberate troll. If you don't fall for the joke, you get to be in on it. See also YHBT. 2. n. An individual who chronically trolls in sense 1; regularly posts specious arguments, flames or personal attacks to a newsgroup, discussion list, or in email for no other purpose than to annoy someone or disrupt a discussion. Trolls are recognizable by the fact that they have no real interest in learning about the topic at hand - they simply want to utter flame bait. Like the ugly creatures they are named after, they exhibit no redeeming characteristics, and as such, they are recognized as a lower form of life on the net, as in, "Oh, ignore him, he's just a troll." Compare kook. 3. n. [Berkeley] Computer lab monitor. A popular campus job for CS students. Duties include helping newbies and ensuring that lab policies are followed. Probably so-called because it involves lurking in dark cavelike corners.

Some people claim that the troll (sense 1) is properly a narrower category than flame bait, that a troll is categorized by containing some assertion that is wrong but not overtly controversial. See also Troll-O-Meter.

The use of `troll' in either sense is a live metaphor that readily produces elaborations and combining forms. For example, one not infrequently sees the warning "Do not feed the troll" as part of a followup to troll postings."

Hey, you wanted to know.

04-26-2002, 10:13 PM
Bruce, I've spent the last couple of hours thinking about this.

You seem genuinely concerned about the fact that- and unaware of why- many find your posts offensive. Yes, I believe you have been trolling, but as someone (I think it was mle) said before, you don't seem to be aware of it. If you would like to, we can talk off-forum (you can send me a private message or an email), and we can discuss privately just what it is that I believe that many on this forum find offensive in your posts. This way 1) We can speak freely without a fish-bowl feeling. 2) Those reading the forum will not have to read through our clutter. I would really like to talk to you.

I don't want anyone in this forum to feel alienated or unwanted. This forum is made up of a great group of people, and perhaps we could talk about how it is best to relate to them. If you do, I think that you will learn much more from this forum, and the experience will be better for all.

I think that in a couple of my past posts, I have been, in my frustration, less than patient with you, and a bit harsh. I apologize for that, and I hope we can discuss this as friends.

I hope to hear from you.


04-27-2002, 05:05 AM
woooaaahh....bruce is ignored by 10 people. :D
i find bruce interesting and not offensive, why block him out?

Bruce Baker
04-27-2002, 05:30 PM

I am sorry if you take any post as a troll, but the most offensive thing to me is that we do not actually apply the things we learn in physical Aikido practice to our daily lives?

I understand the difficulty of living in the competitive world as it forces you to adapt to it ambiguous morality and sometimes really beats the snot out of your intended good intentions?

I don't expect anyone to feel sorry for me, but to understand I should not be doing Aikido and it is only sheer will power that allows me that practice. Maybe I am all of you in advanced old age giving you a look at what is to come with illness, but my searching for truth among martial arts norms or abnorms is my primary study when I am not able to physically practice.

If pressing on your arm to find a spot that always causes pain is not a pressure point, then call it something else? If hitting a muscle makes it numb every time, I say pressure point and you say muscle, what difference does it make if it works every time?

If examining techniques shown to me by Yamada sensei, Stickles sensei, O'Connor sensei, even my own teacher Griffin sensei to find connections between the karate, judo, jujitsu, Aikido, with pressure points/nerve endings as the cause for pain transmissions in the body, then these guys are either lieing or they are being hoodwinked! All of them have an extremely high integrity and veritable impeccable characters! They offer insight and their learning experience, but they are all human beings with human flaws ... something that makes them all the more respected even if they do not always agree as teachers or human beings?

We learn to co-exist.

My personal study of finding the links to techniques, their actual fighting root for injury or death, and the benefits of pressure points is to allow myself,, with a
deteriorating balance to practice Aikido with these fine gentlemen as long as I possibly can, is my only motive for any of my questions, or inquirys?

There are no experts, just people with more knowledgeable than the person asking the questions. Hopefully we can share our knowledge, jokes, and pain like adults.

There are certain annoying traits I have that support my own sanity with walls that must be there, but that doesn't mean I don't care, or seek to "troll".

It would seem that this term is the result of those unable to find the harmony, and simply want bad feelings to grow worse. It doesn't solve anything, but does make a tedious situation even worse? Even if an answer is not apparent, there is an answer somewhere?

An Aiki solution would find a way to have harmony, indeed.

The first step should be to examine the questions that opened the thread, and examine with new eyes both sides of the fence.

The term Newbie, is another offense as it implies a slur. Knowledge is sometimes difficult to find, but those slamming doors don't help either? There are places for people to find some research, and there is advice on what to look for. Question is, are we pointing people in right direction by making fun of serious questions that may seem lewdacriss on the surface, but actually have a deeper meaning? Shouldn't we be pointing to ways to find knowledge instead of emotional criticism?

I will try to do better.

That is all I promise, to try.

Don't be surprised if all the things I point to in threads do not come to pass in the next ten years.

Thank you for your kind attention.