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chillzATL
05-07-2010, 12:08 PM
Anyone ever seen Tohei's resignation letter to the aikikai? In it he says "After returning to Japan, I first put down Yoshinkan Aikido and worked hard to raise Aikido headquarters up in the world". What does he mean by "put down Yoshinkan".

RED
05-07-2010, 12:21 PM
Meh, politics.

chillzATL
05-07-2010, 12:43 PM
Meh, politics.

nice hijack...

Rabih Shanshiry
05-07-2010, 01:25 PM
Anyone ever seen Tohei's resignation letter to the aikikai? In it he says "After returning to Japan, I first put down Yoshinkan Aikido and worked hard to raise Aikido headquarters up in the world". What does he mean by "put down Yoshinkan".

Never seen it personally. Can you post a copy or a link?

I have no idea what the phrase means, it could be that he was approached by Shioda to join the Yoshinkan an offer he "put down" or declined. That is pure speculation on my part however.

RED
05-07-2010, 01:30 PM
nice hijack...

*salutes*

Aiki1
05-07-2010, 01:46 PM
Anyone ever seen Tohei's resignation letter to the aikikai? In it he says "After returning to Japan, I first put down Yoshinkan Aikido and worked hard to raise Aikido headquarters up in the world". What does he mean by "put down Yoshinkan".

Are you saying that you have seen the letter or the text of it?

chillzATL
05-07-2010, 01:48 PM
Are you saying that you have seen the letter or the text of it?

I have yes.

Aiki1
05-07-2010, 01:49 PM
I have yes.

Where - I have wanted to see that for 28 years....

chillzATL
05-07-2010, 01:55 PM
Where - I have wanted to see that for 28 years....

via our dojo. I never expected it to be any sort of rarity, but after making the post I did some searching around and haven't really found it online anywhere.

raul rodrigo
05-07-2010, 01:57 PM
Please post the text of the letter.

Aiki1
05-07-2010, 01:58 PM
via our dojo. I never expected it to be any sort of rarity, but after making the post I did some searching around and haven't really found it online anywhere.

I think it has always been a point of interest for some people, myself included. I've never been able to locate a copy.

chillzATL
05-07-2010, 02:00 PM
Please post the text of the letter.

I've only read a copy. It's nothing I can copy and paste from.

Keith Larman
05-07-2010, 02:35 PM
Scanner...

Walter Martindale
05-07-2010, 02:51 PM
Scanner...

Scanner... Camera... Tracing Paper... Transcription...

JW
05-07-2010, 07:00 PM
What does he mean by "put down Yoshinkan".

Could it be a poor/awkward translation? Did you see the Japanese text, or a translation?

lbb
05-07-2010, 09:34 PM
I've only read a copy. It's nothing I can copy and paste from.

Kinda pointless to start a discussion thread on an out-of-context quote from a document none of the rest of us can read, innit? I mean, what could we possibly have to say about it? Not enough information.

Lyle Laizure
05-07-2010, 10:29 PM
I agree with Mary.

Janet Rosen
05-07-2010, 10:37 PM
What Mary said. Source, translation, etc need to be verified.

chillzATL
05-08-2010, 07:04 AM
Kinda pointless to start a discussion thread on an out-of-context quote from a document none of the rest of us can read, innit? I mean, what could we possibly have to say about it? Not enough information.

well.. no. I really didn't expect it to be something that seemingly no-one had seen or read. Pointless now, obviously, but hindsight is 20-20. If I can post the letter later, I will.

Rabih Shanshiry
05-08-2010, 09:42 AM
I, for one, find Tohei's reference to the Yoshinkan in his resigntaion intriguing and something I did not know about. Others here are excited about the propsect of being able to read a document that has a lot of historical import within the Aikido community.

Given that, I don't think the post was pointless at all.

Carsten Möllering
05-08-2010, 01:35 PM
via our dojo. I never expected it to be any sort of rarity, but after making the post I did some searching around and haven't really found it online anywhere.
No, it is not to be found online. And as far as I know it has never been printed or published in any book or magazine. Even quotations are rare to find.

So I think there are only few people who know this document. Especially here in Europe.
I myself would be very thankful to have the possibility to read the text.

Carsten

David Yap
05-09-2010, 10:42 AM
Hi all,

This topic had been discussed before in the Aikido Journal forum.

This is from one of the posters:

I actually read the letter yesterday when an original was found in our dojo archives. It was about 4 pages and was extremely heartfelt. In fact it was dated in April but it was a letter of resignation as Shihan bucho of the aikikai effetive April 30th 1974. It spoke a lot of the history and how it came to a point that he felt ki was being completely neglected in teaching at tokyo HQ. It also spoke of how powerful the Yoshinkan group had become and how he collected money from the USA during his first visit in 1953 to rebuild Aikikai HQ. He told how it was the Nishi kai that invited him to Hawaii to spread aikido and not O'Sensei. Although he did obtain Ueshiba Sensei's approval I am sure.

It spoke about how Yamada Senesi created the USAF and to his dismay became president of the organization. Tohei Senesi felt that an american should be president of the organization. I know Yamada Sensei and Tohei Sensei have since buried the hatchet when yamada sensei went to meet with Tohei Senesi in the 80"s or 90's and donated money to Ki No Kenkyu Kai HQ.

Above all it was an extremely respectful and heartfelt letter.

Link to the post http://www.aikidojournal.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6960&view=previous&sid=733a9434f87cc501599c243354f0884d

Regds
David Y

Carsten Möllering
05-10-2010, 02:20 AM
This topic had been discussed before in the Aikido Journal forum.
hhmmm ...

I don't find an explanation of the phrase "... I first put down Yoshinkan Aikido .." in that thread?

I don't think it has been questioned that Tohei was invited by the nishi kai?

The letter isn't published there either?

Carsten

Chris Li
05-10-2010, 11:51 AM
Hi all,

This topic had been discussed before in the Aikido Journal forum.

This is from one of the posters:

I actually read the letter yesterday when an original was found in our dojo archives. It was about 4 pages and was extremely heartfelt. In fact it was dated in April but it was a letter of resignation as Shihan bucho of the aikikai effetive April 30th 1974. It spoke a lot of the history and how it came to a point that he felt ki was being completely neglected in teaching at tokyo HQ. It also spoke of how powerful the Yoshinkan group had become and how he collected money from the USA during his first visit in 1953 to rebuild Aikikai HQ. He told how it was the Nishi kai that invited him to Hawaii to spread aikido and not O'Sensei. Although he did obtain Ueshiba Sensei's approval I am sure.

It spoke about how Yamada Senesi created the USAF and to his dismay became president of the organization. Tohei Senesi felt that an american should be president of the organization. I know Yamada Sensei and Tohei Sensei have since buried the hatchet when yamada sensei went to meet with Tohei Senesi in the 80"s or 90's and donated money to Ki No Kenkyu Kai HQ.

Above all it was an extremely respectful and heartfelt letter.

Link to the post http://www.aikidojournal.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6960&view=previous&sid=733a9434f87cc501599c243354f0884d

Regds
David Y

It's been a long time since I read that letter (and I don't have a copy anymore), but as I recall I didn't find the tone nearly as respectful as the poster in the e-Budo thread seemed to.

What I'd really like to see is the response to that letter that was written by Tadashi Abe.

On a side note, there was always some rivalry between the Yoshinkan and the Aikikai as the developed in parallel after the war (Shioda and Kisshomaru were sort of like older and younger brothers in many ways), but I'd note that they managed (and still manage) to maintain close and cordial relations through the years.

Best,

Chris

CurtisK
05-10-2010, 01:45 PM
Everyone is right that it is difficult to gauge his intention, but I dont think its that great a leap to consider by "put down Yoshinkan", he means he it put it aside, put it behind him, didnt concentrate on it.

Adam Huss
05-10-2010, 03:24 PM
I can't get past the feeling this conversation isn't appropriate for public discussion and it is disrespectful toward Tohei Sensei to discuss his private correspondence.

Keith Larman
05-10-2010, 04:02 PM
I can't get past the feeling this conversation isn't appropriate for public discussion and it is disrespectful toward Tohei Sensei to discuss his private correspondence.

Yeah, I've been thinking about it myself.

When it happened, no doubt it was something private. But at some point things like this become "history". This was a defining moment in so many ways in the history of Aikido. So I really don't know. Has enough time passed yet to try to put this to rest? Is it time to allow it to be "read into the record"?

Still pondering it myself...

Chris Li
05-10-2010, 06:42 PM
I can't get past the feeling this conversation isn't appropriate for public discussion and it is disrespectful toward Tohei Sensei to discuss his private correspondence.

It was hardly private - the letter in question was mailed out to hundreds (thousands?) of dojo worldwide.

Best,

Chris

Adam Huss
05-10-2010, 10:58 PM
Oh ok...I have no relationship with Tohei Sensei or Ki Society other than I trained under Toyoda Sensei's group...so that was just an outsider's perspective. I figured if it was public note it would be published somewhere....pay no nevermind to me!

Keith Larman
05-10-2010, 11:14 PM
Yeah, I get the idea, but it still feels kinda intrusive since Tohei is still with us.

Shannon Frye
05-10-2010, 11:29 PM
Yeah, I get the idea, but it still feels kinda intrusive since Tohei is still with us.

If he' still with us, why not have someone ask him directly? Go to the source.;)

Carsten Möllering
05-11-2010, 02:05 AM
Hi,

Tohei Sensei sent what we call in in German an "open letter" (Don't know whether this word exists in English?) to the aikikai affiliated dojo all over the world and it was - as far as I know - addressed to the aikido-public: To the people doing aikikai-aikido. Up to then he was the main teacher of the aikikai.

This letter was definitely not a private one. - Neither was the answer of Abe Sensei. - It was meant by Tohei Sensei to be read by every student of aikikai aikido.

So why shouldn't it be published again after all those years?
Is it still impossible to look back without anger?
Maybe our look on those conflict here in Germany is more relaxed because we didn't suffer such a split of aikido as you did in the US? (Over here there is nearly no Ki-Aikido.)
But is this really more than a "historical issue" today?

Hm and:
It's not Tohei Sensei who doesn't show this letter to the public. It's the addressees. The aikikai dojo which have it in their records.

Carsten

David Maidment
05-11-2010, 08:06 AM
Indeed; it was an open letter so the idea was that it could/should be discussed as we are attempting to do so here. It probably wasn't his intention that so much time should pass and it still be a point of interest because of the secrecy that has shrouded it, but that's the fault of others, not Tohei sensei or ourselves.

Keith Larman
05-11-2010, 08:22 AM
Okay, then, anyone have a copy they want to post? I've only heard it discussed but never seen the letter itself. I have a few folk I can ask myself.

Adam Huss
05-11-2010, 11:54 PM
I know this concept of an open letter..but its not something that is practiced too often in the USA....maybe a MEMO...but not exactly the same thing. I wonder if there is a Japanese name for this type of correspondence?

Nafis Zahir
05-12-2010, 12:58 AM
Hi,

Tohei Sensei sent what we call in in German an "open letter" (Don't know whether this word exists in English?) to the aikikai affiliated dojo all over the world and it was - as far as I know - addressed to the aikido-public: To the people doing aikikai-aikido. Up to then he was the main teacher of the aikikai.

This letter was definitely not a private one. - Neither was the answer of Abe Sensei. - It was meant by Tohei Sensei to be read by every student of aikikai aikido.

So why shouldn't it be published again after all those years?
Is it still impossible to look back without anger?
Maybe our look on those conflict here in Germany is more relaxed because we didn't suffer such a split of aikido as you did in the US? (Over here there is nearly no Ki-Aikido.)
But is this really more than a "historical issue" today?

Hm and:
It's not Tohei Sensei who doesn't show this letter to the public. It's the addressees. The aikikai dojo which have it in their records.

Carsten



Not only would I like to see the letter, but Abe Sensei's response as well.

Chris Li
05-12-2010, 01:53 AM
I know this concept of an open letter..but its not something that is practiced too often in the USA....maybe a MEMO...but not exactly the same thing. I wonder if there is a Japanese name for this type of correspondence?

On the contrary, I think that open letters are quite common in the US - you often seen them published in newspapers and other similar mediums.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_letter

Best,

Chris

Ecosamurai
05-12-2010, 04:13 AM
From the point of view of history, I think I'd be more interested in knowing what happened when Tohei Sensei spoke to Kisshomaru Ueshiba in person prior to sending that letter. Apparently there were a few others in the room at the time, one of whom was Koretoshi Maruyama Sensei. Perhaps if the opportunity ever presents itself I'll be able to ask him.