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Bruce Baker
04-23-2002, 09:23 AM
Chit chat ...

You know, I was thinking how overbearing most of the posts are to Bruce ...

That would be me.

(Although the knowledgeable sensei's seem to respond with knowledge and kindness, for which I am grateful.)

If we were all face to face, I am sure that either my size, tone of voice, or actual physical aikido practice would force some of the nasty comments to come to a close, or at least force them to the private whispers as MR. Baker deserves a little respect ... for a few years of living. (49 to date)

When did the thread writers get to be on a personal first name basis with me in such an overbearing manner! It is beyond good manners. I am sorry if you have such disrespect for you elders or peers, maybe you should relearn manners again?

As for items of disbelief ...

Some of you need to train a bit more, read a bit more, get out and do a few more studies beyond learning to drink and socialize? (of course, this is for the inane responders who need refrain from detrimental remarks just because we cannot touch beyond a computer screen? That also can be remedied, by many means ... think about it? Read the Aikiweb protocol about behavior?)

On the other hand ... about growing old ...

I think my children have sucked the youth out of me and refuse to give it back!
(middleaged comedy)

One of the things I have learned from fixing outboard and inboard motors, anything is possible ... you just have to be around long enough to see it. I have seen too many impossible scenario's come into being outside the text manuals, and repair technicians? The Corporate slant isn't always the correct way to fix something, this too changes with input from field technicians ... like me.

Of course, when you deal with the entire spectrum of humanity, from the poor clammer to the billionare, you get a different slant on life than someone who is stuck in one kind of life, year after year.

Sorry for you.

I have had most of my fun outdoors, meeting people, watching their kids grow into adults, and having their grandchildren drive the boats I have fixed or serviced.

It could be that my spirituality is the result of having Native American Blood in my family. Natives lean towards a spiritual side of nature while embracing the lessons of survival, and keeping their family safe. Normally, truth is more important to Natives than the contractual words on paper with loopholes and broken promises.

Hence, I sometimes respond with anger to spin doctor threads that recast and create angry responses based on the reponders own inadequecys?

Sorry. Didn't know you had emotional baggage to be aired?

Maybe we should have a socialize thread with advice and experiences of others? Our Aikido communitys own advice collumn?

Another thing.

I didn't know so many people had degrees in psychology? Maybe we should lock some of you perfectly normal people into a rubber room for a month or more and see just what you will say or do to get out? I will bet your story changes, your behavior modifies, and you will tell any lie to get what you want?


Sorry, I can't lie, and change to a whim of thread response.

But then, I am not of the younger generation, nor do I pretend to be anything but a dinosaur from a bygone time.

Tough ... get a grip responders, your little world is not what you thought it was ... it is a lot more!

My thought for chit chat was to enlighten some seekers of knowledge while practicing Aikido as I do, but then we still have the hecklers, the disbelievers who (it is ok to be disbelievers, that is freedom) would rather heckle than find the truth in its real forms, not the half baked twisted media truth of television and their social peers inept knowledge?

The fact is, not even common Chinese/Japanese know or care about many of the things we discuss in our Aikiweb forum? If it doesn't concern their daily life, it can't be important? Yet, we are here ... trying to understand Aikido?

Maybe, it isn't worth the thought, or the words? But all real knowledge comes from searching, and not listening to others who demand you live like they do, telling you to learn like they do.

I say, go find the knowledge. Unlike thirty years ago, it is more available than ever. Don't be fooled into thinking there are not scientific reasons for everything in this universe? We simply haven't gotten to all of them yet.

So, for those who shake their heads and know more than anyone else, I am sorry that you are so smart ... could you share your secret with us all?

For those who respond with quips and petty overlording demands .... Oh, well! Mr. Baker has his own world to deal with. Get a Grip! Deal with yours!

Perhaps the spiritual side of Aikido has eluded you? Manners would carry over if it didn't, wouldn't they?

Hey, if we all truly believed in the goodness of our religions, and practiced those gracious tenents, we would just have to get along!

Obviously, some of us only practice them when we want, or on our holy days? I am sorry for you.

But those of you who think, wonder, and continually seek knowledge with clear minds ... I thank you from the bottom of my heart for your insight, and sharing what knowledge you have.

To end this chit chat:

For you big studs who believe your size and words protect you ... forget about it! Politeness, humbleness, and knowledge will put a real hurtin' on the biggest SOB ... or make them your friend?

Get over trying to understand Mr. Baker.

Accept the widening of the envelope for Aikido, our understanding of it is restricted by ourselves and no one else.

Accept that your teachers are human beings, with human faults, who try to do the best they can. It is from that flaw of humanity, we find the strength of these teachers as our mentors, and many as our friends.

Don't forget to give your peers the same respect you give to your teachers.

If we did this, I don't think there would be a need to have a Chit-Chat, would there?


:ai: :ki: :do:

Jim ashby
04-23-2002, 05:33 PM
Bruce, Bruce, Bruce.... Ah well I'd better be the one to fuel your ego first on this one. Your size, voice or Aikido practice would not deter me for one nanosecond from voicing my opinions. You say you are 49... So what. all that means is that you haven't died yet. I once had a trainer who told me he had 28 years of experience, he was wrong, he'd just had the same year of experience 28 times. You may find it strange but there are people on these forums that have greater and wider experience than you, some of them have experienced what you find so magical and dismissed it. As to doing things that aren't in the manual, yeah I have done that too, I was trained by the finest engineering company in the world, and have travelled all the way around this globe, seen and done a hell of a lot for my mere 41 years but, like I said, I can spot an idiot a mile off.

Jim23
04-23-2002, 11:09 PM
Hmmm ...

You shouldn't worry so much about how others view you. And you don't need to practically tell your life story in order to get people to understand or respect you - begging for respect isn't the best way to get it.

Sure, there are some silly fellows in white pyjamas out there - simply rise above their comments.

Should you expect people to share your views or even to respect you because of your size, the strength of your voice or your age? Or maybe by what you say?

Lighten up a bit. Don't take yourself or this forum so seriously.

Jim23

deepsoup
04-25-2002, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by Bruce Baker
You know, I was thinking how overbearing most of the posts are to Bruce ...

Your own posts are far more overbearing, and you are frequently very insulting towards those who disagree with you. If you want to be treated with respect, please treat others with respect. Its a very simple rule.

It could be that my spirituality is the result of having Native American Blood in my family. Natives lean towards a spiritual side of nature while embracing the lessons of survival, and keeping their family safe. Normally, truth is more important to Natives than the contractual words on paper with loopholes and broken promises.

This totally takes the biscuit.

In attempting to claim the moral high-ground on the strength of your racial background, you're in danger of crossing a line here that decent people just dont cross, beware.

Sean
x

Bruce Baker
04-26-2002, 12:32 AM
All I have to say is..

When am I gonna get paid like a doctor for listening to these cracked pots?

Thanks, tough guys ...

You missed the point again!

Do Aikido a favor and return to the teachings of O'Sensei ...

The macho martial arts responses to posts is both distasteful, and not befitting another response.

Bruce Baker
04-26-2002, 01:22 AM
Didn't your mothers every tell you ..

If you have nothing good to say about someone you should say nothing at all?

Apparently not.

Apparently the last three responses were but the ramblings of madmen who are provoked into doing exactly what they wish others not to do, or more easily said as ....

...we hate most in others the things we dislike in outselves?

I know I have said it before, but it seems we still have some child responses ... even for informal chit chats?

Or is this entire forum filled with swell headed "I can fix the entire world to my own vision" responders?" I am starting to wonder?

Sorry, had to say it, wouldn't be right to keep it in and let it fester into something more ugly.

Maybe ... the previous responders could just take care of their own little world and accept that there are many ways to look at the world out side of the their own lifestyle and experiences? It seems I can not get you to understand what motivates me, and you have nothing good to say to me ... c'est la vie!

That my lads, is what makes it a very interesting place!

No amount of browbeating is gonna make it into your particular image, or mine for that matter.

You can either learn to laugh at things beyond your control that have irony in them, or ...

I prefer to laugh when my Aikido partner gets the flow of technique into a pin?

Simply, because, they have finally found that real Aikido feels almost like nothing.

So, I say to you what every generation has said to the next generation that doesn't want to hear what is to be said ...

GET A GRIP!

If that yanks your chain, then I guess the lesson is, you haven't learned some of the philosophy of Aikido?

Harmony is not just a movement of self defense?


(again I ask,"...how do you read a tone of voice into words?" It must be the creation of your own imaginations running wild? Strange world indeed?)

By the way guys, thanks for the advice, but none of it was helpful ... and yes I expect everyone to be more experienced than myself.

If you must voice this response back to me, then there must be something in your mind that you have to deal with? No offense intended, but I am continually examining my own responses for consideration, maybe that is why I write candidly, and some responders find offense? Your own examination of morality may or may not be valid? So too, the standards of simple questions may be insulting by these morals and perceptions?

Ever thought about these things, in this way?

Have you examined your own emotional responses in retrospect to issues you have in personal contention? Just a thought.

I didn't think chit chat was a personal offense to anyone, just airing out things that shouldn't be left to fester?

I was just trying to find the harmony in a sticky situation, and it might be that the harmony is to ignore any disharmony?

I will try harder to do so.

Thanks for the exercise.

PeterR
04-26-2002, 03:55 AM
Always had a problem being lectured to which is a far cry from having an opinion expressed. Hate doing the same so please consider this an opinion rather than a lecture.

Went back to your first post on the forum Bruce and its almost identical to you last in tone if not content.

There are several people on this forum that hold views quite different from the mass yet they present them in a way where the end result is not alienation but lively discussion. There are even a few cases where converts have been obtained.

Better still is the realization that a contrary opinion is not the domain of fools or a personal attack.

Just so you know where I'm coming from Sean and the two Jims are people I know only from the list but am sure I would enjoy training and drinking beer with. Sean also knows he has to make it to my dojo real soon. In their own way - they are trying to help you out.

Abasan
04-26-2002, 06:10 AM
I know that continuing to write in this thread alone would only deepen Mr Baker's resolve to get everyone to understand who he is, by hook or crook. And I doubt that by the way things are going, there'll be anyone left who would even bother reading posts started by the same Mr Baker...so my post here might be foolhardy.

But I have this sudden insight. Perhaps, Mr Baker is none other then OSensei incarnate, came back to test his mostly american aikidokas who like to prattle on in aikiweb (no disrespect :p ) on how they utilise their aikido off the mat.

I, find some amusement though in the things you have to say. Though I never understand what is it exactly that you want to talk about. Most of the time though, you come across as a crabby old man blue collar wannabe who demands respect and silently wishes for sympathy. If this is the point of Chit Chat, then so be it.

Jim23
04-26-2002, 08:55 AM
Yes, I got that feeling too.

But while he lectures people not to criticize others, he feels justified to throw around words like "madmen" and "cracked pots", while saying that: "If you have nothing good to say about someone you should say nothing at all"

Do as I say, but not as I do, I suppose.


"Maybe ... the previous responders could just take care of their own little world and accept that there are many ways to look at the world out side of the their own lifestyle and experiences?"


Bruce, if you want to tell us about your lifestyle and experiences, fine ... just try to keep it down to a few paragraphs.

Jim23

thomson
04-26-2002, 10:54 AM
All I can say is "Thank Jun, for the ignore list"

Bye-Bye Bruce.

Bruce Baker
04-26-2002, 08:14 PM
My goodness!

Is there no sense of humor?

Lighten up guys, I am listening.

You know...

Beer is kind of like smoking ... once you stop smoking, it takes a year to get your thought process to work without it.

The fact is ... people become dependant upon the cigarette to activate the brains thinking process, they can't think without smoking?

So too, does social drinking alcohol change behavior and the manner is which one thinks. This too takes time to readjust the emotional and thinking process.

I do recognize there is some kind of interest, but the manner in which is expressed is sometimes not clear?

My apologies for your mind finding insults in certain phrases, ladies and gentlemen, but I see most phrases as descriptions of how far into as offensive zone previous comments have gone, or as the decriptions of imperfections as the reason to fix something?

Never mind ...

I was trying to get past the walls of "this is the way it is" and try to explore other avenues.

The more I treat everyone as equals, the more offensive the responses ... It makes me sad to think there is a closed community with its own set of rules?

From the people who find offense, it would seem that the world has a new set of standards to live by ... and I missed them?

Question: If you gave your word, but were not contractually obligated to keep your word, would you renig, or keep your word even though you were not contractually obligated?

I was wondering how morally commited to integrity someone should be?

Identified as the business mind for the European Industrial Society.

I am from the old school of don't say it unless you mean it, keep your word.

Problem is, how conveluted can meanings of words get?

I guess we are a bit rough and tumble here in Jersey, but we do laugh a lot and don't get lit up at a little word exchange?

I am listening, just keep talking and we should find a balance, eventually.

Kat.C
04-26-2002, 09:10 PM
Originally posted by Bruce Baker
You know...

Beer is kind of like smoking ... once you stop smoking, it takes a year to get your thought process to work without it.

The fact is ... people become dependant upon the cigarette to activate the brains thinking process, they can't think without smoking?

So too, does social drinking alcohol change behavior and the manner is which one thinks. This too takes time to readjust the emotional and thinking process.


Bull. Mr. Baker, I sincerely hope you are joking about this, as it is merely an excuse for adults to avoid taking responsibilites for their actions. Individuals change their own behaviour, not social drinking and cigarettes or quiting smoking.

Jim23
04-27-2002, 08:18 AM
Originally posted by Bruce Baker
My goodness!

Is there no sense of humor?

Beer is kind of like smoking ... once you stop smoking, it takes a year to get your thought process to work without it.

The fact is ... people become dependant upon the cigarette to activate the brains thinking process, they can't think without smoking?

So too, does social drinking alcohol change behavior and the manner is which one thinks. This too takes time to readjust the emotional and thinking process.

...

I was wondering how morally commited to integrity someone should be?

Identified as the business mind for the European Industrial Society.

I am from the old school of don't say it unless you mean it, keep your word.



I think I figured this guy out.

How stupid of me/us. This is all a joke ... a prank ... a scam -- it must be!

You got us! You fooled us! You win!

Jim23

Jim ashby
04-27-2002, 04:15 PM
I tried to make sense of your last post Bruce, English is my first language and I have a working knowledge of French and a smattering of Spanish, Italian, Basque and Welsh. I Tried to make sense of it through the varied sentence structures that I know with no success. Tell me, is it that English is not your first language or, whatever it is you are on, do you have any to sell?

Bruce Baker
04-28-2002, 06:28 PM
I think I have figured most of you out.

I guess I should treat the irreverant posts like a bad child, the you don't get it posts as by holding up a mirror and reflecting the post back to its source, and the actual intelligent posts for what they are ... information to be checked and explored.

Anything else will quickly be put to bed by coming to visit our little band of Aikido in New Jersey and show me what you are talking about?

That should about do it.

The rest is up to you to find by practicing, studying, and researching on your own.

Oh, well. As the teacher used to say, study on your own ...