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IrimiTom
04-21-2002, 01:04 PM
Can someone please explain this terms to me? I once attended a iaido class and it seemed to me that one said "Toh" when "making the kill", but not by cutting, rather by stabbing instead. Other than that I have never heard any of these words used in any other context.

George S. Ledyard
04-21-2002, 07:22 PM
Originally posted by IrimiTom
Can someone please explain this terms to me? I once attended a iaido class and it seemed to me that one said "Toh" when "making the kill", but not by cutting, rather by stabbing instead. Other than that I have never heard any of these words used in any other context.

These are forms of the kototama. The "ei" is a kiai for focus as I understand it. It was used in the naginata forms we did as one struck. The "yah" is a sound for drawing out the opponent's final movement. The "toh" is said as one delivers the final strike in the form.

I did iaido for a few years and I don't remember using these kiais. I did use them in the toda ha buko ryu naginanta forms that I studied under Ellis Amdur Sensei.

JJF
04-22-2002, 08:41 AM
We used the Ya and Too sounds in Kendo-kata (paired katas) back when I did kendo. Haven't seen them used either in ZNKF Seitei Iaido or Aiki-to-ho Iaido though.
BTW: We never got an explanation about why we used those sounds - just did 'cause the sensei told us to.... :D

andrew
04-22-2002, 08:50 AM
I think I saw a doka mentioning these sounds in Budo, or perhaps the art of peace, but I believe it was Budo.

andrew

Bruce Baker
04-22-2002, 09:22 AM
Although I am pursueing this study currently ...

It is my understanding that there are sounds that the human body responds to and increases the motion or strength of that motion.

The Kotodama is the easiest way to relate to what you heard.

Although John Stevens sensei has gone into some sounds in seminars I have attended, I am just starting to understand what he was talking about. What I mean to say to you is ... don't hurry to find the meaning of these things, it will come. Pay attention to what your teachers do, practice on your own at home with or without the sounds and see if there is a difference? If there is a marked improvement, then you have found a reason to use the sound?

Many people around the world use different sounds to enhance their techniques and strength. What is pretty cool is that most of the sounds for movement enhancement are very simular if not exact in sound with execution of movement!

Also, opposite movement sounds neutralize the power of other movement sounds ...

Maybe that is too much.

If you want to check out Kotodama, Johns Steven's "The Secrets of Aikido" has it in the back of the book, although you might find elsewhere also?

Practice, have fun, and always look for other uses in what you learn. You just might use some of those sounds in your everyday life, too?

Chuck.Gordon
04-22-2002, 09:29 AM
Originally posted by IrimiTom
Can someone please explain this terms to me? I once attended a iaido class and it seemed to me that one said "Toh" when "making the kill", but not by cutting, rather by stabbing instead. Other than that I have never heard any of these words used in any other context.

The sounds used to punctuate kiai differ between systems. In Muso Shinto Ryu, for instance, the sound used when striking/cutting is Eiiiii! For thrusting, it's Hohhhh!

In my dojo, I teach some general uses, Eiii! is a sort of greeting/opening; Tohhhh! is used when attacking or reacting. Ho! is a finishing sound ... there are others, and we're not rigorous about using them specifically, but they're there in the curriculum.

And it's also something best dealt with in person, on the mat, in training, rather than in sterile words on the screen. There are, I think, subharmonics, emotional impacts, etc, etc all tied in.

We use a couple of different exercises to find and train the proper pitch for the sounds, too. And again, those are best dealt with in person rather than online.

Chuck

Bruce Baker
04-22-2002, 10:02 AM
Sorry ...

I was so pleased to see that we all agree about sounds..

I had to say it!

andrew
04-22-2002, 02:55 PM
A litlle visit to www.aikidojournal.com ( http://www.aikidojournal.com/articles/_article.asp?ArticleID=483 , to be precise..), a little read of an interview with the second Doshu, a little cut and paste and....


"You should practice to your limit. Then, after many years of practice, you can understand, for the first time, what we call kotodama (a Shinto-based belief that sounds have an intrinsic value capable of affecting physical reality), which makes it possble for one to execute incredible techniques. This understanding will lead to a manifestation of the spirit of Aikido. You should never think that you can do such things from the beginning. Today people try to acquire things of value without making an effort. I mean they try to get tasty food without lifting their heads off their pillows."


And so forth.
Andrew