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dalen7
02-05-2010, 09:06 AM
One of our 2nd Kyu requirements is Gyaku-Hanmi, Kubi Nage.
[Neck Throw]

Unfortunately, [or fortunately for safeties sake], we haven't covered this technique, officially, in class as of yet.

I went to look at my Aikido 3D program to get an idea, and the technique was nowhere to be listed... in any form.
[Which was both interesting and a bit disappointing.]

Anyway, a search on youtube did not yield much better results.

Anyone have a video they would like to share, and/or have the patience to try to describe the technique?

I have done it on one occasion with a 2nd Kyu when we had the time, but it was awhile back and a bit different than the judo kubi nage that was shown on youtube.

hmmm... another one of those 'Judo' type moves Im not that fond of, but I guess I can get the hang of it as Koshinage is gradually growing on me. [well, lets just say I wouldnt choose it as a technique, but I wouldnt shy away from doing it either.] :)

Anyway, any videos or details how to execute the technique would be appreciated. ;)

Peace

dAlen

dalen7
02-05-2010, 09:09 AM
heh... put this in the wrong forum, should have been in techniques! :)

chillzATL
02-05-2010, 09:42 AM
youtube kubinage aikido and you'll find one. I'm not commenting on the quality, but you'll get the general idea and should be able to figure the rest out from there.

dalen7
02-05-2010, 09:52 AM
youtube kubinage aikido and you'll find one. I'm not commenting on the quality, but you'll get the general idea and should be able to figure the rest out from there.

Most the videos, that make sense, are from Judo and remind me of koshinage. ;)

:)

Peace

dAlen

[B]p.s.

Ill step this conversation/thread up a notch:

Here is what I can recall from what I did awhile back with the 2nd kyu.:

- From Gyaku Hanmi go into what looks like iriminage
- only you do a type of reverse headlock with 'free arm' and
- ukes body follows the direction the neck is being rotated in, and then you step forward as if it were iriminage

Sound familiar to anyone? Differences? Would love to hear! :D

[B]p.s.s.
I also take it that this is one of those techniques that have several possibilities to it, and the guiding principle is the term 'neck' throw. [Hence you can get something that resembles more koshinage/hip throw, etc.] ;)

ninjaqutie
02-05-2010, 12:01 PM
I think we have done something similar to that in my class (if I am interpreting your words correctly). I have never really gotten that technique down. It isn't on any of our testing requirements in my dojo.

C. David Henderson
02-05-2010, 01:06 PM
It may, unless I'm mistaken, also refer to a technique that, rather than a "reverse headlock," involves grabbing the gi collar, dropping your arm while twisting your wrist to apply the choke with the collar against the neck.

Either way, we finish this pair of techniques by arching uke back and lowering uke (slowly in practice) so that his elbow is hyprextended against nage's knee. When uke submits, nage sort of dumps uke to the side (gently is fine), letting go of both the choke and the arm lock.

I have seen what I considered to be "koshi nage" done with a "reverse head lock" and throw too, BTW.

However your dojo finishes the technique, both the "reverse head lock' and collar choke take some practice. To me the second took/takes more. The head lock sort of presents itself in the flow of the technique; the collar choke required me to learn some distinct handwork.

Hope that's of some help.

dalen7
02-05-2010, 01:46 PM
Thanks Ashley and David,

Just got back from practicing the technique the way described... and with the reverse headlock it does really seem to be taking advantage of flow vs. leverage. [not even sure thats a good way to put it!] :D

Anyway, thanks for the comments... Im giving myself 5 months to get good at this technique. [shouldnt take that long, but who knows... want that hakama!] ;)

Peace

dAlen

ninjaqutie
02-07-2010, 02:20 PM
Just make sure you don't bang/drive your knee into uke's back. That happened to me when I was uke and it wasn't that pleasant.

dalen7
02-07-2010, 05:17 PM
Just make sure you don't bang/drive your knee into uke's back. That happened to me when I was uke and it wasn't that pleasant.

Yeah, I can see how that technique can be an accident waiting to happen.

You know, even with koshinage I have swiped a couple of nages faces. [think it was my foot that hit them on the way down! - Im just happy to land with little to no pain, never thought about nage getting hurt!] ;)

Peace

dAlen

Charlie
02-07-2010, 07:37 PM
Most the videos, that make sense, are from Judo and remind me of koshinage. ;)

:)

Peace

dAlen

[B]p.s.

Ill step this conversation/thread up a notch:

Here is what I can recall from what I did awhile back with the 2nd kyu.:

- From Gyaku Hanmi go into what looks like iriminage
- only you do a type of reverse headlock with 'free arm' and
- ukes body follows the direction the neck is being rotated in, and then you step forward as if it were iriminage

Sound familiar to anyone? Differences? Would love to hear! :D

[B]p.s.s.
I also take it that this is one of those techniques that have several possibilities to it, and the guiding principle is the term 'neck' throw. [Hence you can get something that resembles more koshinage/hip throw, etc.] ;)

The version I see a lot in Yoshinkan [or at least used too!].

http://www.aikidoshudokan.com/media/video/

Thambu sensei performing at the 50th anniversary at approx. 1:19 mark.

Don_Modesto
02-08-2010, 10:10 AM
Maybe also called "MEN NAGI"? The authors specify that it's a lethal technique. Rick Stickles did it at one of Pranin's Expos...if we're talking about the same technique.

http://www.coolrain.com/3.html

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dalen7
02-09-2010, 02:24 AM
Maybe also called "MEN NAGI"?

Well Don, congrats to you... :)
I did a youtube search with Men Nagi as the name and found this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0wDLj_VPK4

This is exactly how the 2nd kyu showed me how to do it awhile back.
[now need to get my instructor to verify this - oh how it would be nice to have a consistent naming convention.]

My problem with this technique vs. the judo type Kubi Nages is that the ones I have seen on youtube from judo seem more practical... and perhaps a bit less dangerous, as your not just playing with the neck but the body as a whole.

As you see in the clip above there is no extra support.
The fact is, and I tried to ask this from our 2nd kyu, what is there to make me really roll with this technique??? He really has no control over my body, at least in a safe way.

Here is a variation which resembles koshinage, as he is supporting uke with the hip, as it were...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Esqgq6JEew8

Anyway... thanks for pointing out the name variation.

Peace

dAlen

Michael Douglas
02-09-2010, 09:54 AM
In the modern softback reprint of "Budo" there is Kubi nage on pages 123 & 124 from Noma and Wakayame, both starting from lapel grabs.
Atemi or breaking balance on the arm, then grab the head and twist ...
Not gentle, not safe but probably applicable in a wide range of techniques.

You can really see why in some circles it has been quietly fogotten ...