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gixxergary
01-28-2010, 10:46 PM
I just tested for 5th kyu a couple of months back. I enjoy any training time I can get, as my wife and oldest son can agree, is more than they would like me to train at times. ( accused of being addicted ).On to my point. Have any of you lower ranks, such as myself, ever found yourself looking for another technique from any particular attack? The list of things I want to learn is endless, and will come in time, but I find myself looking for ways to control the wrists and arms, in manners that I havent been taught yet. Im sure there are names for all of these movments, as Im equally sure that I havent discovered anything new, but I am simply amazed at how easy it can be to control another individual with such small circular motions of your hands. When I think Ive found something that works, I ask Sensei after class, how it SHOULD work, and he is very helpful.

Is this as common as I would hope it would be in the lower ranks? I would love to hear your thoughts about this, or at what point, with higher ranks, has this come about for you. I wish we could form a club in our area to practice outside the dojo (the dojo is only open so many hours a week). We have several students interested in doing so, but no facility to accomodate.

Thanks in advance for your replies,
Gary

DonMagee
01-29-2010, 12:55 PM
There are no techniques.

There are ideas, principles, and strategies.

Employing these at the right time is what makes a technique. As long as you stick to the 3 things listed above, you can do anything you want. As long as it works against someone trying to stop you, then it's valid.

Every technique has a weakness. Nothing is perfect. There is only what works, and what you can do after it doesn't work.

Lyle Laizure
01-29-2010, 01:28 PM
There isn't anything that hasn't been done before. I think those that say they have invented something new are a bit goofy. But what you are describing is a good thing, a great thing really. Finding a technique is very rewarding.

Adam Huss
01-29-2010, 03:19 PM
Yes, when I was coming up through the kyu ranks we would have competitions to see who could invent a technique none of our teachers recognized. No one was ever successful, but it was a lot of fun. It also forced us to think outside the box and experiment, teaching us the principles of control. Good stuff.

aikidoc
01-29-2010, 08:04 PM
Agree totally with Don.

philippe willaume
01-30-2010, 06:00 AM
Nope, in fact I found that there is a lot of technical convergence in most of martial arts. So really any new techniques will either a mix of two existing one or a particular case of the application of an existing one

Beside it is on records that humans have been in the business of mullering each other for about 5000 year. So we have covered the subject thoroughly. What can part timer as us discover that people whose sole purpose in life was using ways of safely dispose of your opponent, would not have found?
For creative in the technical front you need to take the same radical approach as ultimate surrender, which we all agree has lost a bit in the martial department.

phil

gixxergary
01-30-2010, 08:08 AM
Appreciate the comments, but your looking way to deep into my simple question of something I found fun and exciting! All philosophy aside, I havent found everything that was created in the last 5000 years just yet, so I will keep on searching for new ( to me), ideas, principles and strategies or as I like to call them, techniques. We start with techniques, we all did, where any individual takes it over their lifetime is, well, up to them.

Gary

RED
01-30-2010, 10:37 PM
I think I sort of get what the original poster is getting at. And there is nothing more amazing than learning Aikido. We all at some point have had that child-like feeling of exploration as we see how one technique leads to the other. There is nothing new under the sun. But even if you know 1-billion people have see the Grand Canyon before you, it doesn't harsh your first glimpse of it.

^_^

Ketsan
02-01-2010, 04:07 AM
Every technique I do is my own technique, as Sensei frequently reminds me. "No, turn your foot out" "No, bigger tenkan" "What was that?" "Is that what I demonstrated?" "Was that omote or ura?" "Kaiten, not tenkan!" :D

Michael Fitzgerald
02-01-2010, 05:26 AM
I do know what you mean OP, but it's not something I concern myself with.
Perhaps I look at it a bit like trying out a new conversation...if you know what I mean.

I read a great article tonight, written by Yoshio Kuroiwa, on technique and kata - very well written- very clear.

He talked about 'mastering' form or kata- and when it can be reproduced spontaneously, it becomes waza. He also talked of the danger of focussing on the external appearance of forms etc..

anyhow- nothing I can say here will do justice to the article, possibly the opposite! LOL.
look for it- It was posted on an Aikido focussed journal.

gixxergary
02-01-2010, 06:34 AM
I will read it. Thank you,
Gary

dalen7
02-04-2010, 02:36 PM
I tend to agree with what Don said, there really are no techniques, but principles which you apply to different situations.

Beginners tend to get hung up on the form the technique takes in the kata they do. [i.e. they mistake the katas as the sole form of a technique, and dont realize there are underlying principles which make this technique work in a myriad of situations.]

Once you go beyond the form, or kata, and get the underlying principles and feel it work in different scenarios, then you will know more what Im talking about.
[If you dont feel it work and just assume your techniques work, your in for a surprise if you ever go 'live' and uke isnt cooperating with you.] ;)

As far as developing your own technique... there really is nothing new under the sun, albeit there will be some techniques that just vibe with you and you tend to pull off in most scenarios which others cant seem to do. [Some guys are better with pinning legs, others armbars, wrist locks, etc.]

There are a ton of techniques, but it seems you end up adopting one or two and making them your own.
Every now and again, expanding out and learning more of the others... ;)

Peace

dAlen

Reuben
02-10-2010, 04:35 AM
I think it's great to experiment with new techniques (whether invented or not) as it will show you the limits of each technique and a greater understanding of the art.

Saying it's principles it's all fine and dandy but many times without proper muscle memory, it's hard to actually execute principles without a solid grounding in technique.

Playing around with technique and finding out which works is an important part of learning Aikido and personalizing it to your personality, body frame and psychology which is different for everyone.

Of course this should not be to the detriment of learning the core techniques which build the necessary templates for you to start working with but a little experimentation is great!

Johann Baptista
02-10-2010, 04:51 PM
A reporter once asked O'Sensei to show him a technique. Apparently the technique was so impressive that the reporter wanted it repeated for the camera. O' Sensei said "sure." He then performed another incredible move for the camera... but it was completely diffrent. After various attempts at asking O'Sensei to perform that same technique again, the reporter gave up and stopped. O'Sensei then asked if the reporter was satisfied. After hearing the reporter complain that he never did that same technique again, O'Sensei told him something along the lines that since the universe was always changing, his technique was always diffrent to match the changing circumstances. His technique was always new, but the principles remained the same.

(I have told this story from memory, on having read it from a book on Aikido, so although some points may not be exact, the basic message I believe has been preserved.)

Effectively, anything can be Aikido, when manifested with Aiki. So once the basic techniques are transcended, after you reach mushin (no mind), all techniques are spontaneous and new.

My senpai actively encourages forming new techniques. I can hear him telling me during randori, "Forget what you learned and do what comes to you. If its something new, go with it! Relax!"

Personally, I love experimenting with Aikido, but I also love the traditional techniques, for I know that diciplined practice of them will bring me to that spontaneous place I so desire.

:ai:
:ki:
:do:

- Johann

kokyu
02-14-2010, 08:29 PM
... It might come spontaneously, i.e. something that comes to mind in the spur of the movement

... it might be something that you work at, e.g. when you constantly think of a completely different response to an attack

... but, it's also important to consider the new technique's effectiveness - someone else might have thought of it, but discarded it as it wasn't practical

As you progress higher, you might like to come up with your own *style*... examples I have seen include putting the hand across the hip, as if keeping the sword in place, putting uke's hand close to the chest for sankyo, and so on...

Best of luck :)

DonMagee
02-15-2010, 07:37 AM
A reporter once asked O'Sensei to show him a technique. Apparently the technique was so impressive that the reporter wanted it repeated for the camera. O' Sensei said "sure." He then performed another incredible move for the camera... but it was completely diffrent. After various attempts at asking O'Sensei to perform that same technique again, the reporter gave up and stopped. O'Sensei then asked if the reporter was satisfied. After hearing the reporter complain that he never did that same technique again, O'Sensei told him something along the lines that since the universe was always changing, his technique was always diffrent to match the changing circumstances. His technique was always new, but the principles remained the same.

(I have told this story from memory, on having read it from a book on Aikido, so although some points may not be exact, the basic message I believe has been preserved.)



Where I'm from, we call that being a jerk!
:D

Johann Baptista
02-15-2010, 11:12 AM
Where I'm from, we call that being a jerk!
:D

You know, I couldn't help thinking about that as I read the book:rolleyes: . Maybe O'Sensei was just out for a laugh. I still believe in the principle though. Go figure.

BTW: If you've ever seen the interview with O'Sensei on Youtube, you would realize he is actually a bit of a goof :D.