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yankeechick
12-27-2009, 07:45 PM
Hello,

Does anyone have detailed, credible experience with Dit Da Jow? Does it work, or is it one of those placebo effect items?

Any input is appreciated.

Thanks!

lbb
12-27-2009, 08:38 PM
Does anyone have detailed, credible experience with Dit Da Jow? Does it work, or is it one of those placebo effect items?!

I've seen a few different dit da jow recipes -- you can buy it premade at Chinese apothecaries, or you can make up your own. They all include herbs that are said to help heal trauma, sometimes stuff that's a topical analgesic, and also generally some things that are irritants (which increase blood flow). As to whether it "works", that depends on what formula you're using and what you expect it to do. It won't magically heal a fractured femur, but the formulas I've seen would typically help reduce swelling and bruising and improve the speed of healing of that sort of trauma at least somewhat.

Marc Abrams
12-29-2009, 05:11 PM
I use Kamwo's formulation from Tom Bisio who is also my acupuncturist! Stuff is much better than ice.

marc abrams

yankeechick
12-29-2009, 05:21 PM
I use Kamwo's formulation from Tom Bisio who is also my acupuncturist! Stuff is much better than ice.

marc abrams

How can I purchase it?

Janet Rosen
12-29-2009, 05:46 PM
google kamwo:
http://www.kamwo.com/mambo/

John Connolly
12-29-2009, 05:50 PM
One of my dojo mates, Steve Sakahara, makes his own dit da jow, based on Tom Bisio's recipes. Everyone in my dojo has used it with success for pain mitigation, swelling, and stiffness from injuries. Read more here: http://ourbadbudo.blogspot.com/2009/09/ice-is-for-dead-people.html

Steve Sakahara
12-30-2009, 03:10 PM
The DDJ we've been using is actually Neil's 15 yr. old concoction based on Ark Wong's recipe. Our stuff is only 6 months old - gallon glass jug, herbs from Kamwo, 100 proof vodka, store in cool dark place, shake daily.

I've had good experience with the DDJ in healing bruises and strains in less time than normal, about 20-30% faster than without. For bruises, they turn bright red with the old recipe, not so much with the new. Doesn't smell too bad like some of the other Chinese stuff. :yuck:

I pulled a hamstring this summer and it started to swell as soon as I stopped moving. I immediately applied the DDJ and several more times that evening. Before bed, I layered on a paste of San Huang San to reduce swelling, wrapped my leg and kept it on overnight and most of the next day. After 2 days the swelling went down and I started applying tendon lotion. I was back working out 2 weeks later. Surprising results since I didn't apply any ice, and injuries take a lot longer to heal now.

Check out Tom Bisio's book, A Tooth from the Tiger's Mouth (http://www.amazon.com/Tooth-Tigers-Mouth-Injuries-Powerful/dp/0743245512/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1262204273&sr=8-1). Pretty good information if you keep an open mind.

YMMV

Marc Abrams
12-30-2009, 04:41 PM
How can I purchase it?

http://www.kamwo.com/shop/home.php?cat=421

Marc Abrams

Marc Abrams
12-30-2009, 04:42 PM
One of my dojo mates, Steve Sakahara, makes his own dit da jow, based on Tom Bisio's recipes. Everyone in my dojo has used it with success for pain mitigation, swelling, and stiffness from injuries. Read more here: http://ourbadbudo.blogspot.com/2009/09/ice-is-for-dead-people.html

Tom leaves out one particular ingredient from his book which is very dangerous if not used properly. Takes the liniment to the next level. The ingredients list from his book works very well without that ingredient.

Marc Abrams

yankeechick
12-30-2009, 04:58 PM
cool. already went on line and looked at it. will purchase it by the weekend...:D

Steve Sakahara
01-05-2010, 01:45 AM
Tom leaves out one particular ingredient from his book which is very dangerous if not used properly. Takes the liniment to the next level. The ingredients list from his book works very well without that ingredient.

When I read Tom's book, I remember wondering if this was all he put in his personal batches. ;)

Since the general purpose recipe works pretty well, it's easy to be curious as to how much better a more aggressive recipe would be in aiding the healing process.

Steve

Marc Abrams
01-05-2010, 07:59 AM
When I read Tom's book, I remember wondering if this was all he put in his personal batches. ;)

Since the general purpose recipe works pretty well, it's easy to be curious as to how much better a more aggressive recipe would be in aiding the healing process.

Steve

Steve:

Tom Bisio left out that one ingredient solely for safety concerns. The misuse of that one left out ingredient could have resulted in some bad things happening. The formula that he lists in his book works well. The "secret" ingredient does make some slight difference, but not enough to have outweighed the concerns for people's safety.

Marc Abrams

phitruong
01-05-2010, 09:01 AM
i got DDJ and SHS from Josh. you can contact him here http://www.wellspringacupuncture.com/index.htm

lbb
01-05-2010, 09:04 AM
I checked out that book on Amazon, and I'm going to get it. I use several of those patent formulas (I've been using Wu Yang plasters and their precursor, Yang Cheng plasters, for...jeez, 20 years now), and I'd like to know more about them. It looks like a really useful reference -- thanks for the tip!

ChrisMoses
01-05-2010, 10:40 AM
i got DDJ and SHS from Josh. you can contact him here http://www.wellspringacupuncture.com/index.htm

Josh is a great guy. I'm using his tendon lotion right now on my still recovering knee.

Thomas Campbell
01-05-2010, 12:38 PM
Our stuff is only 6 months old - gallon glass jug, herbs from Kamwo, 100 proof vodka, store in cool dark place, shake daily.


That sounds like something I'd drink after some of the exchanges here on the Aikiweb forums. ;)

MM
01-05-2010, 12:55 PM
Josh is a great guy. I'm using his tendon lotion right now on my still recovering knee.

Yeah, I second that. Although I haven't tried his lotion. The next time I see him, I'll try to remember to ask him about it.

MM
01-05-2010, 12:57 PM
That sounds like something I'd drink after some of the exchanges here on the Aikiweb forums. ;)

Is there anything you wouldn't drink? :D

Steve Sakahara
01-05-2010, 03:26 PM
Tom Bisio left out that one ingredient solely for safety concerns.
Bad things are to be avoided. As is the rotgut vodka I used in our liniments. :eek:

Josh is a student of Tom Bisio. He tweaks his SHS a little differently from the book recipe and it's dynamite for reducing swelling.

I know TomC appreciates some of the finer spirits and so does Chris. Josh might lean more towards a fine tea. We'll use the good stuff and some tendon lotion to pry the secrets out of Mark on his next visit. ;)

Josh Lerner
01-05-2010, 03:58 PM
Bad things are to be avoided. As is the rotgut vodka I used in our liniments. :eek:

Josh is a student of Tom Bisio. He tweaks his SHS a little differently from the book recipe and it's dynamite for reducing swelling.

I know TomC appreciates some of the finer spirits and so does Chris. Josh might lean more towards a fine tea. We'll use the good stuff and some tendon lotion to pry the secrets out of Mark on his next visit. ;)

Hi guys,

I learned Tom and Frank's basic trauma medicine and tuina from them in weekend seminars, but I don't know if I've spent enough time with him to call myself his student. He and Frank have certainly been a major influence on my clinical practice, though. I do plan on continuing to study with them.

I've also just started working as a clinical supervisor at the Tuesday morning tuina clinic at the Seattle Institute of Oriental Medicine. All of their students learn Tom and Frank's Zhenggu Tuina, and the school has a clinic where the first-year students practice only tuina. It's a student clinic, so it's pretty inexpensive, and it's in the Roosevelt district near the Whole Foods, so it's easy to find.

My SHS is basically the same recipe as in the book, but since I ordered the herbs from Kamwo, I had the option of using a modified version of one of them - frying the rhubarb root in wine helps to bring out the circulation-enhancing effects and lessens the bowel-moving effects. Which shouldn't be an issue anyway if you aren't eating it.

You guys aren't eating it, right?

Right?

http://www.stickergiant.com/Merchant2/imgs/250/ssim49.gif

Josh

Josh Lerner
01-05-2010, 05:08 PM
Hello,

Does anyone have detailed, credible experience with Dit Da Jow? Does it work, or is it one of those placebo effect items?

Any input is appreciated.

Thanks!

Hi Antonia,

Take this for what it's worth - a few weeks ago I got hit pretty hard in the leg, just above the knee. I got home, didn't see any bruising, but it was sore, so I spent about one minute rubbing some dit da jow on it to be safe, in an oval area where it hurt. I didn't rub that hard, just enough to spread it around. The next morning when I woke up, there was no bruising at all, except right next to the area where I rubbed. I could actually see the curved border of the oval where I had applied it, inside of which the skin looked normal, outside of which was a nice purplish bruise. So it either works really well, or I experienced some kind of Chinese medicine reverse stigmata.

In general, though, the results with correctly-administered trauma medicine are much less noticeable, usually along the lines of "Oh, it healed really quickly and wasn't so severe, so it must not have been that bad to begin with." I've actually caught myself thinking that, even with injuries I've seen or sustained (or, unfortunately, caused) that I knew should have been more severe.

Hope that helps,

Josh

lbb
01-05-2010, 08:24 PM
Josh, I've had that same kind of experience with Wu Yang plasters (a sharp line separating where the plaster was and where it wasn't, with swollen and bruised flesh on one side and unbruised flesh on the other). I'd say it works, yeah.

phitruong
01-05-2010, 09:19 PM
My SHS is basically the same recipe as in the book, but since I ordered the herbs from Kamwo, I had the option of using a modified version of one of them - frying the rhubarb root in wine helps to bring out the circulation-enhancing effects and lessens the bowel-moving effects. Which shouldn't be an issue anyway if you aren't eating it.

You guys aren't eating it, right?

Right?

Josh

you meant i shouldn't put it on cracker with cheese? i thought it was some kind of caviar :D